Artificers - what do they do and how do they work?

[Yorae]

I'm interested in this class, but I'm altogether sure how they actually play or, honestly, how the class really works.

Can anyone point out to me what they do and how the class is supposed to be played?

I know crafting stuff is their schtick, but it seems like they would be totally neutered by not having large amounts of cash on hand, since they only get a reserve for XP costs.

Also, are there any interesting PrCs for Artificers? Can they be theurge'd with anything?

Thanks!

Edit: Also, is there an artificer handbook? My googlefu is failing me.

[Gavinfoxx]

Artificers are perhaps the single most complex class in D&D 3.5e, and one of the most powerful.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11474

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661

There are other, older artificer handbooks...

[Dusk Eclipse]

The Unofficial Artificer Player's Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0)

That will answer all your questions :smallwink:

Still there are a LOT of ways to cheapen crafting, IIRC you could get the crafting price up to 20% of the market price.

As for prestige classes... I think there are a few scattered through the Eberron books... the one that springs to mind is the Renegade Mastermaker whose shtick is slowly become a construct (AFAIK it does it better than Greenstar Adept)

[Yorae]

I was also wondering how you have time to make use of the crafting - seems like it would require an awful lot of downtime between most adventures. Most campaigns I've been in only have a night or two downtime at a stretch. Metamagic spell trigger does seem awfully awesome. I'll need to get reading on these guides....

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, get one of those Portable Pit Traps, put your workshop in it (five stories of room!), and put your dedicated wright in it. That's the main trick.

Also some relevant threads...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=177.0

[Godskook]

There's very little official support in terms of prestige classes, so that's a non-starter.

As far as what you're supposed to do as an Artificer, there's 3 major 'types'. Wandificers, Bufficers, and Minion Masters. You can do a little of each in any build, but there's a little bit of specializing that you're going to have to do to get them to work really well.

[Treblain]

IIRC, artificers can use prestige classes that advance spellcasting that don't specify arcane or divine, but also don't have a prerequisite of spellcasting. Human Paragon is the example I'm thinking of right now. Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion let you advance any class, of course.

Or I could be remembering wrong.

[Yorae]

IIRC, artificers can use prestige classes that advance spellcasting that don't specify arcane or divine, but also don't have a prerequisite of spellcasting. Human Paragon is the example I'm thinking of right now. Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion let you advance any class, of course.

Or I could be remembering wrong.

The progression for Renegade MasterMaker seems to imply that Artificer infusions are somehow considered spells in some way, shape or form, but for the life of me I cannot figure out how.

[Madcrafter]

The artificer is extremely powerful, but needs a lot of bookkeeping, and really good system knowledge to play well. They can also be kept in check by a vigilent DM, though that is not necessarily a bad thing.

The main problem with any PrC for artificer is that straight artificer is better. And the PrCs mostly don't advance infusions, don't give you craft reserve, and don't give you all the free feats. Other than that, the main one is Renegade Mastermaker, though it still has all the disadvantages listed above. Its main advantage is becoming a construct, which are great with artificers. So starting as a warforged is good; human is another good choice.

As for more advice, most definitely read the Unofficial Player's Guide 3.0, linked earlier. Its very good advice. There are some dirtier tricks you can pull, but you should be powerful enough.

[Yorae]

The progression for Renegade MasterMaker seems to imply that Artificer infusions are somehow considered spells in some way, shape or form, but for the life of me I cannot figure out how.

Found this under the infusions class ability:
"[Infusions] function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells"

Infusions are listed just like spells as well and refer to "caster level" in their descriptions (they are even listed as transmutations). I guess that means infusions count like spells.

[Madcrafter]

Except they are sort of unique, since they are neither arcane or divine magic. So you can't qualify or use any PrC that specifically says arcane or divine, otherwise its ok.

[Yorae]

Except they are sort of unique, since they are neither arcane or divine magic. So you can't qualify or use any PrC that specifically says arcane or divine, otherwise its ok.

Hm. Plot: Craft self novice gloves of the shadow hand, then take martial stance for assassin's stance to gain sneak attack. Then take levels in Spellwarp Sniper and spellwarp your wands! Seems to work alright. Straight artificer is stronger, but it fits a character theme I'm working on. =p

That's probably a terrible idea, though, since you lose your precious craft reserve.

[Madcrafter]

Well if it is only a few levels, its not too bad. There are ways to reduce crafting costs by quite a lot, and after you get retain essence it doesn't matter very much anymore.

[Yorae]

Well if it is only a few levels, its not too bad. There are ways to reduce crafting costs by quite a lot, and after you get retain essence it doesn't matter very much anymore.

Hm... I may consider it, then.

This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0) seems extraordinarily useful for an artificer (thanks, Gavin!)....I foresee crafting many items that require the user to be an artificer with ranks in a specific craft skill in order to use them.

[BobVosh]

It is important to note that it is pretty easy to accidentally thee whole game.

I did it with wands, literally by accident. (About my 4th or 5th character)

[Yuki Akuma]

The secret to playing an Artificer well is to craft items for everyone in the party. Get the cost reduction feats and suddenly everyone is kitted out with over twice their WBL.

Well, that, and blasting, buffing or minioning.

You'll want a Dedicated Wright even if you're not a hordificer, though.

[Aharon]

This is a repost from the last thread on this topic:

If you're willing to do some book-diving, there are surprisingly good infusions, so although your main focus and biggest strength is crafting, you aren't completely useless in a campaign with little to no downtime.

Even one of the most well-known infusion lines, the weapon enhancement line, has lots of uses that aren't common knowledge.

Example: Warforged/anything else with natural weapons to make use of natural weapon augmentation.
1st level
2 infusions/day, uses for Personal Natural weapon augmentation and personal weapon augmentation (both the only ones in the line with 0gp material component cost):

Stygian (1 negative level), 3/day, 10 minutes MIC
Everbright weapon Ref DC 14 blindness, 20ft. Radius, 1 round MIC
Stunning Fort DC 13, 1 round, can only be added to bludgeoning ammunition (i.e. Slings) HoB
Torturous Fort DC 12/17, 1 round stun, Ghostwalk
Cursespewing Will DC 15 –4 morale penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks BoVD
Exhausting Fort DC 14 fatigued Shining South
Viper on Huge Dagger => Large Viper Serpent Kingdoms
Smoking 20% Concealment Lords of Darkness
Rusting – metal objects that come into contact with it rust, Shining south

and those are just a few selected weapon properties for just one infusion. With that one infusion, you get 9 different worthwhile options, probably more if you search longer and more thoroughly than I did.
The higher level ones give you even better stuff - for example, for 1 first and 1 second level infusion, and 20 gold, you can get an effect equivalent to summon monster VII.

[Madcrafter]

The real good options are Personal Weapon Augmentation, to get bane against anything you are fighting (and proceed to rip them to shreds), Spell Storing Item, which literally lets you cast any 4th level or lower spell in the game, whenever you need it (even with the XP cost this is almost always worth it). And those are just first level ones. MoE has a few good ones as well, and of course, if you have constructs in the party (or are one yourself), or are fighting constructs, you become even more useful.

A good idea is to get scrolls of everything to cover any situations you might find yourself in. Ones with saves are usually not as good, but packing a few scrolls of obscuring mist and others can really be a lifesaver. (Obscuring mist has a special place in my heart after it allowed my level one party (at the beginning of the campaign) to take on 23 orc and goblin fighters and archers, and their sergeant on, while transferring crates of dreamlily from one ship to another, without any casualties (though we came very close). There were only five left when we made our getaway).

[Yorae]

Something that had occurred to me was that crafting all these items is going to be awfully expensive - I've found that I can reduce the costs down to about 13% of market price without a huge amount of trouble, but that still leaves the problem of high level magic items... When your caster level starts getting on up there, and you want to make, say, a spell trigger item of a 5th level spell, you really want to use your real caster level of 20 or what have you, rather than the lowest possible of 9, but that looks exorbitant, even WITH all the cost reduction. Maybe other folks tend to get more cash in their games? =\

Is there anyway one could craft the item at its lowest cost and then somehow treat their "real" caster level as the cater level of the wand when activating it. Seems like there should be a feat or something for that.

[Madcrafter]

You can do that with staves, but not much else. But artificers don't have a CL anyways, since they are using UMD, so you are kind of stuck in those situations. Thats why no save spells are much better.

[Yorae]

You can do that with staves, but not much else. But artificers don't have a CL anyways, since they are using UMD, so you are kind of stuck in those situations. Thats why no save spells are much better.

If artificers don't have a caster level, then all of their infusions that say "x per caster level" don't work right at all.

Also, did you mean to say spell with a save, as opposed to damaging spells? Saves aren't based on caster level.

[Psyren]

Artificers have a caster level, so Madcrafter is incorrect.

What they don't have is an arcane caster level or a divine caster level. Like Shadowcasters, they are neither.

[Reluctance]

For every item that isn't a staff, saves are made assuming the minimum stat to cast a spell of that level. If you want to get the most mileage out of spells where saves and level-based variables matter, play an actual caster. The item guy is a whole different game from the spell guy.

Trying to match a proper caster with consumables is a fool's errand. You can keep a few tricks in reserve, as some of your metamagic shenanigans can outright break an encounter, but the point is precisely not to let your gold go up in smoke. Just like how a wizard shouldn't blow all his slots in the first encounter, except that your resources don't all come back the next day.

As for keeping your pockets full, the first step is to realize that you practically double WBL just by existing. If you want a little more, pick up Extraordinary Artisan and charge your allies 50-60% of the item's full market price. (This works better if they don't know about the feat so they think 50% is at cost.) If you still run low on gold after that, you're being inefficient and should check your style. Why burn gold doing something if one of your party members can do it for free?

[Yorae]

For every item that isn't a staff, saves are made assuming the minimum stat to cast a spell of that level. If you want to get the most mileage out of spells where saves and level-based variables matter, play an actual caster. The item guy is a whole different game from the spell guy.

Trying to match a proper caster with consumables is a fool's errand. You can keep a few tricks in reserve, as some of your metamagic shenanigans can outright break an encounter, but the point is precisely not to let your gold go up in smoke. Just like how a wizard shouldn't blow all his slots in the first encounter, except that your resources don't all come back the next day.

As for keeping your pockets full, the first step is to realize that you practically double WBL just by existing. If you want a little more, pick up Extraordinary Artisan and charge your allies 50-60% of the item's full market price. (This works better if they don't know about the feat so they think 50% is at cost.) If you still run low on gold after that, you're being inefficient and should check your style. Why burn gold doing something if one of your party members can do it for free?

Makes sense, bit I keep hearing of a "wandificer" that would presumably using wands at their max CL, since their objective is to blast.

[Madcrafter]

Yea yea, artificers do have CL, but not one they can use for the clause under staves that say you can base the spells within off of your own stats (since they have to use UMD because they don't have the spells on their list).

And even if your party knows that you can make things for cheaper, you can still charge them 60% or something, since it is less than full price. Most reasonable people would take that deal.

And as Reluctance mentions, don't step on your party member's toes. Since as an artificer, you have the capability of doing anything, do whatever the party is lacking in. In my game, I'm the magical damage dealer and trap monkey, since the wizard is an electric debuffer, the druid is a fighter, and the truenamer/incarnate is the physical damage and heals. That way everyone still has something useful they can do. Not to say you can't be prepared and be able to cover the other roles if say, someone can't make it to the game.

EDIT: To some extent, every artificer is a wandificer, since they are quite useful implements, but yes, usually the blastificer tends to use them the most. The idea is not to necessarily use them at a higher caster level, but find a decent one and pile on the metamagic when necessary.

[Psyren]

Makes sense, bit I keep hearing of a "wandificer" that would presumably using wands at their max CL, since their objective is to blast.

1) Plenty of blasting spells don't have DCs at all. e.g. Magic Missile and orbs. Those are therefore the ones it is better to "wand" with.

2) Artificers have a singular advantage for crafting, in that they can craft items whose CL is up to 2 above their own. For instance, a 3rd-level artificer can craft a wand of lightning bolt, even though the spell itself requires 5th-level. (The spell within the item will still use their actual caster level however.)

Or a first-level artificer (with the appropriate feats/cash) can craft a wand of Scorching Ray, and do 4d6 right out of the gate (because the damage isn't based on CL.)

3) The true kicker - Artificers can add metamagic to their wands more easily than any other class, thanks to their Metamagic Spell Trigger ability. So you could for instance have an Artificer blasting away with Fell Drain Magic Missile wands by burning through the charges 3x as fast.

[Madcrafter]

3) The true kicker - Artificers can add metamagic to their wands more easily than any other class, thanks to their Metamagic Spell Trigger ability. So you could for instance have an Artificer blasting away with Fell Drain Magic Missile wands by burning through the charges 3x as fast.

Or, if you have time to prepare (which as an artificer, gives you an inane advantage), sticking on a metamagic spell trigger infusion or two and blasting away without spending extra charges (or using extra charges for even more metamagic). Or a casting of Unfettered Heroism, and don't use charges at all!

[AslanCross]

With DM approval, the Craft Points variant in UA obviates the need for excessive downtime.

[Yorae]

I still don't understand - that didn't really make sense to me.
You say:


" Plenty of blasting spells don't have DCs at all. e.g. Magic Missile and orbs. Those are therefore the ones it is better to "wand" with."

...but caster level and save DCs don't have anything to do with one another. The CL is boosting damage dice. And the Orb spells DO have saves, against a hanger-on status effect.

Wand are capped at 4th level spells - You are definitely going to want a wand of Orb of X that deals more than 5d6 damage in the endgame.
You can't just say forget trying to deal damage, lets throw out high level SoDs either, because your spells are 4th, tops.


Or a first-level artificer (with the appropriate feats/cash) can craft a wand of Scorching Ray, and do 4d6 right out of the gate (because the damage isn't based on CL.)

Well, no. They don't get Craft Wand until level 7. Even if they wanted to waste a feat, they could still only get it two levels earlier, since it requires CL 5 to take - you can't ever craft a wand at level 1. At the point that you can craft a wand of Scorching Ray it, at the normal CL, should be doing 8d6, which you would have to pay substantially more gold for.

[Yuki Akuma]

With DM approval, the Craft Points variant in UA obviates the need for excessive downtime.

Downtime? What is this downtime you speak of?

I thought all Artificers got a Dedicated Wright as a class feature at 4th level.


Wand are capped at 4th level spells - You are definitely going to want a wand of Orb of X that deals more than 5d6 damage in the endgame.
You can't just say forget trying to deal damage, lets throw out high level SoDs either, because your spells are 4th, tops.

You are aware that staves exist, right? And cost exactly the same to craft (as long as you're not doing something stupid and crafting staves with 4th level or lower spells)?

[Yorae]

Downtime? What is this downtime you speak of?

I thought all Artificers got a Dedicated Wright as a class feature at 4th level.

The craft points do let you decide "I want this now", though.

[Madcrafter]

Since the the DC of a saving throw on a magic item is the minimum from the stat required to cast the spell, they tend to be quite low. Therefore, spells that do not allow saves are much better to blast with, the main example usually being Scorching Ray. You can make a higher CL wand to deal more damage dice, but this doesn't change the fact it might still only have a DC 14 save, which, bar one feat, you can't improve (staves being the exception).

[Yorae]

Downtime? What is this downtime you
You are aware that staves exist, right? And cost exactly the same to craft (as long as you're not doing something stupid and crafting staves with 4th level or lower spells)?

But you can't use them with many of the goodies that wands get, like Double Wand Wielder, which as I understand it is one of the big things for a wandificer/blastificer. The same thing would apply to a custom Wondrous Item.


Since the the DC of a saving throw on a magic item is the minimum from the stat required to cast the spell, they tend to be quite low. Therefore, spells that do not allow saves are much better to blast with, the main example usually being Scorching Ray. You can make a higher CL wand to deal more damage dice, but this doesn't change the fact it might still only have a DC 14 save, which, bar one feat, you can't improve (staves being the exception).

Oooohhhhh..... I hadn't realized this. I had assumed that the DC was the same as for the person who crafted the item. Sorry, that was my big point of misunderstanding.

[Madcrafter]

IMO, double wand wielder is not the greatest of feats. You don't usually have to cast two different spells in a round, and when you do, you can just use Quicken.

[Yorae]

IMO, double wand wielder is not the greatest of feats. You don't usually have to cast two different spells in a round, and when you do, you can just use Quicken.

Since Double Wand Wielder is a full-round action, it doesn't preclude using quicken. You could use both and cast three / round. Never enuff dakka.

Edit: I think what I really need to see is how a blasting artificer would actually play - like, what would you actually craft and use? What would typical combat look like?

[Reluctance]

Decent blastificers have two tricks. The first is to use Power Surge or Wand Surge/Unfettered Heroism to cast decently powerful spells without burning too many actual charges. The second is when the excrement hits the rotary blades, and you use Metamagic Item/Metamagic Spell Trigger/whatever else you have handy to spend a small fortune on a tacnuke. If you have the time to prepare, having your spells twinned and maximized will cause charges to vanish, but will deal sick damage even to things that make their saves.

On the money saving side of things, Wand Mastery gives your wands a +2 to CL and DCs. It's just a bit off the top of higher level wands, but it's still a 20% discount on that Fireball wand you just made.

True blastificer madness is more theory than practice, though. An artificer with Dual Wand Wielder, Wand Mastery, Reckless Wand Wielder and Metamagic Spell Trigger as both the feat and the class feature, you can dump damage in the "you autodie" range. It usually ends up eating more gold than you get from the encounter, so it's more about showing off big numbers than a sustainable strategy.

[Yorae]

Would it be fairly standard practice to be crafting things and selling them as well to help pay for your spell trigger item habit?

[Yuki Akuma]

Would it be fairly standard practice to be crafting things and selling them as well to help pay for your spell trigger item habit?

If you have a DM who'll let you, sure. But you can't make that assumption in TO builds because they need to stick to WBL.

[Yorae]

If you have a DM who'll let you, sure. But you can't make that assumption in TO builds because they need to stick to WBL.

I'm just worried about having less than WBL in a practical situation and then not being able to craft anything and ending up being useless. Its strange to have a class whose abilities are all so tightly tied to your purse strings.

[Yuki Akuma]

Artificers almost always end up with more than WBL if they're using their cost-reduction feats properly.

They can essentially double their wealth by selling everything they get as loot and using the funds to craft items.

Even blastificers who chew through wands can end up ahead most of the time, unless they go really overboard. Wands are cheap.

[Madcrafter]

Only if you have the reserve handy, so not usually.

A typical combat on my blastificer looks like so (he has a continual amulet of Unfettered Heroism, and therefore burns no charges with regular use):

1. Use wand of Scorching Ray (9th?), energy subbed to sonic if needed. Deal 2*4d6 damage. Move.
2. Repeat 1.

If the "excrement hits the rotary blades", it usually goes something more like this:

1. Burn action point (not really though), cast MM Spell Trigger on wand of Scorching Ray. Move into firing position.
2. Repeat 1.
3. Repeat 1 if necessary (depending on how difficult the fight seems).
4. Repeat 3.
5. Lay into opponents with Twinned(2) Split(4) Energy Substituted Energy Admixed(1) Maximized(3) Scorching Ray, burn 4 extra charges to Quicken and cast again. Deal 480 damage (provided they don't have really high touch AC). Move.
6. Repeat 5 until everything is dead, or infusions have worn off (1round/CL).

If you really need to, an artificer can really lay down the hurt.

EDIT: Well, that post showed up late. And yes, usually artificer has enough money, as long as your DM isn't being super stingy with the loot. There are always some things you can do without, and an artificer is still pretty much T1 even if all he has is a single wand, so your base power is not tied to wealth. Only how close you approach tier 0 is.

[Yorae]

Only if you have the reserve handy, so not usually.

A typical combat on my blastificer looks like so (he has a continual amulet of Unfettered Heroism, and therefore burns no charges with regular use):

1. Use wand of Scorching Ray (9th?), energy subbed to sonic if needed. Deal 2*4d6 damage. Move.
2. Repeat 1.

If the "excrement hits the rotary blades", it usually goes something more like this:

1. Burn action point (not really though), cast MM Spell Trigger on wand of Scorching Ray. Move into firing position.
2. Repeat 1.
3. Repeat 1 if necessary (depending on how difficult the fight seems).
4. Repeat 3.
5. Lay into opponents with Twinned(2) Split(4) Energy Substituted Energy Admixed(1) Maximized(3) Scorching Ray, burn 4 extra charges to Quicken and cast again. Deal 480 damage (provided they don't have really high touch AC). Move.
6. Repeat 5 until everything is dead, or infusions have worn off (1round/CL).

If you really need to, an artificer can really lay down the hurt.

EDIT: Well, that post showed up late. And yes, usually artificer has enough money, as long as your DM isn't being super stingy with the loot. There are always some things you can do without, and an artificer is still pretty much T1 even if all he has is a single wand, so your base power is not tied to wealth. Only how close you approach tier 0 is.

Continual item of Unfettered Heroism is a good idea.... I was going to use a wand of it and persistent spell + MM spell trigger (or, more likely, metamagic item infusion to save six charges), but that might actually be a better idea.

(I believe your scorching ray wand would be 7th level, the minimum to get two rays - 5th if you had Wand Mastery.)

Could you itemize the metamagic there for me? I'm having trouble with the extra charges burned there - shouldnt it be twin (4) split (2) admix (4) maximize (3), with an optional quicken (4)?

Did you mean you infused your wand with Metamagic Item (instead of MM Spell Trigger, which isn't an infusion) on the second number 1?

I also thought the ruling onMM Spell Trigger was that it could only apply a single metamagic feat per use of the spell trigger item? From what I've read, it seems like people have taken the MM Spell Trigger feat as well to use two at once an then crafted Metamagic Wandgrips to get a third on the same casting.

Energy Sub also doesn't work with sonic, unless I'm mistaken.

Seems like the schtick is low spell levels, low caster level, but really easy metamagic -- except you have to spend gold on it?

As an aside, what cool stuff can we do other than blasting? I imagine its a lot, considering artificers can get any spell, ever, but the overwhelming amount of choice has me at a bit of a loss. I wonder if you could burn charges from your wand with MM Spell Trigger for Heighten Spell and hand someone a "you WILL fail this save and die" card?

[Yuki Akuma]

Artificers can do a lot. They can be gishes who fight with weapons and personal buffs. They can enhance their allies. They can field a horde of robotic minions to do their every whim.

Most Artificers can do all four of these, although they'll be sub-par in everythign but their speciality.

[Coidzor]

This is a repost from the last thread on this topic:

If you're willing to do some book-diving, there are surprisingly good infusions, so although your main focus and biggest strength is crafting, you aren't completely useless in a campaign with little to no downtime.

Even one of the most well-known infusion lines, the weapon enhancement line, has lots of uses that aren't common knowledge.

Example: Warforged/anything else with natural weapons to make use of natural weapon augmentation.
1st level
2 infusions/day, uses for Personal Natural weapon augmentation and personal weapon augmentation (both the only ones in the line with 0gp material component cost):

Stygian (1 negative level), 3/day, 10 minutes MIC
Everbright weapon Ref DC 14 blindness, 20ft. Radius, 1 round MIC
Stunning Fort DC 13, 1 round, can only be added to bludgeoning ammunition (i.e. Slings) HoB
Torturous Fort DC 12/17, 1 round stun, Ghostwalk
Cursespewing Will DC 15 –4 morale penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks BoVD
Exhausting Fort DC 14 fatigued Shining South
Viper on Huge Dagger => Large Viper Serpent Kingdoms
Smoking 20% Concealment Lords of Darkness
Rusting – metal objects that come into contact with it rust, Shining south

and those are just a few selected weapon properties for just one infusion. With that one infusion, you get 9 different worthwhile options, probably more if you search longer and more thoroughly than I did.
The higher level ones give you even better stuff - for example, for 1 first and 1 second level infusion, and 20 gold, you can get an effect equivalent to summon monster VII.

That reminds me. I wonder why no one has made a handbook to weapon and/or armor properties. Seems like there'd be several that, while they wouldn't go on a main weapon would be good just to have as party tools, like that rusting one you mentioned.


I'm just worried about having less than WBL in a practical situation and then not being able to craft anything and ending up being useless. Its strange to have a class whose abilities are all so tightly tied to your purse strings.

It's strange to have a powerful class whose abilities are so tightly tied to your purse strings, you mean. Since ye olde mundanes until ToB were pretty firmly in that camp of being, essentially, glorified christmas trees.

Whereas artificers are recursive christmas trees. :smallbiggrin:

[Yorae]

That reminds me. I wonder why no one has made a handbook to weapon and/or armor properties. Seems like there'd be several that, while they wouldn't go on a main weapon would be good just to have as party tools, like that rusting one you mentioned.



It's strange to have a powerful class whose abilities are so tightly tied to your purse strings, you mean. Since ye olde mundanes until ToB were pretty firmly in that camp of being, essentially, glorified christmas trees.

Whereas artificers are recursive christmas trees. :smallbiggrin:

Point taken. Well, unless you're an ubercharger or something.

My new mission:
1) Purchase christmas tree.
2) Hang upon tree an ornament shaped like a christmas tree
3) Hang upon the ornament another ornament shaped like a tree.
4) Goto 3

[Yuki Akuma]

Uberchargers still required a ton of magical bling.

[Madcrafter]

Continual item of Unfettered Heroism is a good idea.... I was going to use a wand of it and persistent spell + MM spell trigger (or, more likely, metamagic item infusion to save six charges), but that might actually be a better idea.

Mind you its very expensive. Luckily my group likes high power games and at 9th level, we now have wealth in excess of a character in the high teens (somewhat due to the nature of having an artificer in the party).


(I believe your scorching ray wand would be 7th level, the minimum to get two rays - 5th if you had Wand Mastery.)

I do have wand mastery, so my 9th level wand shoots 3 rays. Which means my damage calculation is off, but w/e.


Could you itemize the metamagic there for me? I'm having trouble with the extra charges burned there - shouldnt it be twin (4) split (2) admix (4) maximize (3), with an optional quicken (4)?
Did you mean you infused your wand with Metamagic Item (instead of MM Spell Trigger, which isn't an infusion) on the second number 1?

The first shot burns no charges, the second uses 4 for the quicken. All the other MM are applied using the MM Item infusion which I did get the name wrong on. That's why having rounds to prep is awesome. The numbers I had in there were for the suggested order of application.


I also thought the ruling onMM Spell Trigger was that it could only apply a single metamagic feat per use of the spell trigger item? From what I've read, it seems like people have taken the MM Spell Trigger feat as well to use two at once an then crafted Metamagic Wandgrips to get a third on the same casting.

It has been debated, and is ultimately up to the DM. Mine allows it, others might not. The infusion is borked anyways, and you have to spend gold to do it (lots of gold), so it is not completely unbalanced to let it stack. I rarely use it anyways - either using the infusion or just not bothering - only sometimes to throw in a second spell if I need to.


Energy Sub also doesn't work with sonic, unless I'm mistaken.

Sub does, admix doesn't IIRC. But I didn't notice that until I had been using it for quite a while, so everyone decided it was ok. Just use acid or electricity if you want to admix.


Seems like the schtick is low spell levels, low caster level, but really easy metamagic -- except you have to spend gold on it?

Only if you want to. You can hold back and spend significantly less, and still do quite well. But yea, in general that is the idea if you are blastificing.


As an aside, what cool stuff can we do other than blasting? I imagine its a lot, considering artificers can get any spell, ever, but the overwhelming amount of choice has me at a bit of a loss. I wonder if you could burn charges from your wand with MM Spell Trigger for Heighten Spell and hand someone a "you WILL fail this save and die" card?

Yeah. If you have looked over the Unofficial Artificer's Players Guide 3.0, which was linked earlier, it goes over the main things you can do. That is one of the reasons playing an artificer requires good system mastery, because you have to know what the best spell/item is for your situation, over however many books you have access too (I only use around 15 out of all those I have access too). There are plenty of ideas floating around the internet, along with some really dirty tricks.

[Yorae]

The first shot burns no charges, the second uses 4 for the quicken. All the other MM are applied using the MM Item infusion which I did get the name wrong on. That's why having rounds to prep is awesome. The numbers I had in there were for the suggested order of application.

Metamagic Item only applies one metamagic feat to the item, though, for 1 round/lvl. Did you cast it 4 times? Those are a lot of dead turns, if so. Though, if Metamagic Item can work like that, then... man, it'd take awhile to charge the thing up, but for a few rounds, you'd be like a small god.

(Thanks for all the responses, btw! I've read over these guides a couple times, but I think I need to go over them in more detail.)

[Madcrafter]

Metamagic Item only applies one metamagic feat to the item, though, for 1 round/lvl. Did you cast it 4 times? Those are a lot of dead turns, if so. Though, if Metamagic Item can work like that, then... man, it'd take awhile to charge the thing up, but for a few rounds, you'd be like a small god.

Yeah 3 times (I usually won't use split because its not worth it (I'm going to retrain it next level) and sub is free). Spending a few rounds buffing your wand can be worth it for tough fights, and it lasts long enough for a whole combat most of the time. If you have a turn or two to prepare though if you know a fight is coming, you can dominate. (I read a story once about an artificer who got split from his party and was about to be attacked by a rival adventuring group (a fighter, rogue, wizard and druid IIRC). He knew they were going to arrive in a few rounds so made himself flying and etheral, and readied actions to hit them when they came through the door. He killed two and disabled one in the first round, and the wizard freaked out and teleported away).

[Yorae]

Yeah 3 times (I usually won't use split because its not worth it (I'm going to retrain it next level) and sub is free). Spending a few rounds buffing your wand can be worth it for tough fights, and it lasts long enough for a whole combat most of the time. If you have a turn or two to prepare though if you know a fight is coming, you can dominate. (I read a story once about an artificer who got split from his party and was about to be attacked by a rival adventuring group (a fighter, rogue, wizard and druid IIRC). He knew they were going to arrive in a few rounds so made himself flying and etheral, and readied actions to hit them when they came through the door. He killed two and disabled one in the first round, and the wizard freaked out and teleported away).

Haha, that's pretty awesome. And you've got the immense firepower for several rounds. I suppose if you were in a hurry and in some... erm... excrement and if you didn't mind wasting some charges, you could be throwing out quickened metamagic'd whatevers while you're still powering up your wand, since your constant stream of AP keeps your infusions at full-rounds. At high levels, if you can get your hands on time stop or some other way to get some time to yourself somehow (WTB Temporal Acceleration), that would be perfect. Granted, you'll probably be chewing through your infusions/day, but hey - its still pretty awesome.

Edit: Should be able to make a spell trigger item of time stop for about 19k after cost reduction, if my math is right. And you'd be able to do it at about level 15. And Wand Surge would work on it. Sweet mordenkainen's faithful watchdog, that sounds amazing.

[Madcrafter]

If you are short on infusions, a ring of master artifice can get you a few more. Generally you shouldn't run out though, since for most combats you don't need to power up your wand at all.

And a good thing to mention: Psionic Artificers are technically better than regular ones, since they can make all the psionic items as well as still being able to make the regular magic ones. That way you can get powers in there too.

[Yorae]

If you are short on infusions, a ring of master artifice can get you a few more. Generally you shouldn't run out though, since for most combats you don't need to power up your wand at all.

And a good thing to mention: Psionic Artificers are technically better than regular ones, since they can make all the psionic items as well as still being able to make the regular magic ones. That way you can get powers in there too.

Neat! This is why we have the Extra Rings feat.

As for Psionic Artificer, I'm sure I'm missing something here, since it looks like there is a consensus that they can make magic items, but I can see "Item Creation: A psionic artificer cannot emulate spells to create magic items". They also don't get Craft Homunculus at 4th level, which makes it seem like they'd not be able to get a Dedicated Wright.

Edit: Found it: they DO get craft homunculus, I just read the adaptation incorrectly. apparently there is errata in MIC that says that if there is a psionic equivalent to a spell, then you can craft a magic item that requires the spell. Only counts for Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item, though, and there obviously isn't a psionic equivalent of something like Unfettered Heroism.

[Madcrafter]

There is a psionic equivalent if an erudite used his spell to power ability on it at some point. Though if you want to keep things simple you might want to just go with an ordinary artificer.

[Yorae]

There is a psionic equivalent if an erudite used his spell to power ability on it at some point. Though if you want to keep things simple you might want to just go with an ordinary artificer.

Yeah, I think I'm doing that. "A StP Erudite once used this, so now I can use it" is a little too theoretical and a little too likely to get me hit with a DMG. =p

One question, though - the book says that using an action point reduces the cat time of an infusion to "1 round", but the guide specifically mentions that is is a "full-round action" and specifically not "1 round". Is there some errata I'm missing or is the guide just wrong?

[Madcrafter]

1 round = 1 full round action, so the guide is fine. Just means you have to make sure you aren't interrupted during your casting since the enemies get to act in the intervening time.

[Yorae]

1 round = 1 full round action, so the guide is fine. Just means you have to make sure you aren't interrupted during your casting since the enemies get to act in the intervening time.

Not exactly. A full-round action finishes on your turn. A spell with a casting time of "1 round" doesn't. Means you can't infuse an item with Metamagic Item and then quicken a spell out of it that has that metamagic in the same round.

Edit: also, it means you can't quicken those infusions, since "A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened."

[Madcrafter]

Right right... I didn't think that through. It is a 1 round action, so I guess the guide has an error in it.

[darkdragoon]

While intended for dwarves, there are special forges in Races of Stone for weapons and armor that can take a sizable chunk out of your downtime. (keep in mind you can emulate being a race with UMD!)

[Yorae]

While intended for dwarves, there are special forges in Races of Stone for weapons and armor that can take a sizable chunk out of your downtime. (keep in mind you can emulate being a race with UMD!)

Ooh. Forge of Sustenance looks nice. Is it possible to craft these things without being a dwarf as well?

[darkdragoon]

As long as you can make the Use Magic Device check, sure.


*If* you are allowed access to stuff from Forgotten Realms (it's a different campaign setting, some might object to it as well as using the Artisan feats):

there are gems for wands in Magic of Faerun. If you're absolutely wanting to get the most Caster Level, DC out of them it's a fairly small investment that you could reuse anyway.