(PF) Arcane Archer Questions and Troubles

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I recently made a thread about a potential build that was focused on Eldritch Knight and archery, because arcane archer doesn't really give enough for a hybrid spellcaster/martial class. Mostly, they lack caster levels, and the quickest entry method is via 5-6 levels of a non-spellcasting class.

Eldritch Knight, however, can be entered via one level of martial class levels, and five levels of wizard. they get a caster level increase every level. They also get precious feats that are useful to an archer character.

I think that it is quite obvious that Eldritch Knight is a more powerful class: In terms of spell versatility, etc, I would guess low tier 2. They can potentially have 9th level spells, good BAB, 2 good saves, decent HP.

So where does that put the arcane archer? at best, 6th level spells, good BAB, 3 decent saves, (ish?) better HP, and more skill points. admittedly, they also have more class features, but the best of said class abilities (enhance arrow) can be replicated with money. Imbue arrow sucks, because most area spells you are casting have have a long range anyway.

So... what can Arcane Archer do that Eldritch Knight can't? what tier would you expect yourself to be in after making an Arcane Archer?

[Baroncognito]

You can go 5-6 levels of non-caster, for 7 levels total, or you could go 8 levels of Bard or Magus.

Of course, you can also enter Arcane Archer with 12 levels of Wizard or Sorcerer. Which would mean missing out on aligned arrows and Arrow of Death, but it also means you only miss out on two levels of arcane spell casting, instead of three.

Or one level fighter, five levels wizard, and three levels of Eldritch Knight.
Or one level fighter, six levels sorcerer, and two levels of Eldritch Knight.
Either of those two ways you only lose out on 5 levels of arcane casting. (Which is a good argument to go Wizard, as you'd still be able to get 8th level spells)

Why focus on the fastest way to gain access to a Prestige Class?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, because in our gaming groups it is rare to go beyond 12th level. I mean, If I had a level 20 arcane archer, I would be okay with the gimped spellcasting ability. However, being a 10th level character with 2nd level spells kinda sucks.

again, I'll bring up Eldritch Knight, who by 10th level will have 4th level spells. I just don't see the point in Arcane Archer until high levels, which in my experience, are planned for but are rarely attained.

[nedz]

Arcane Archer is quite poor, unless maybe you dip for Inbue arrow AND you know what you are doing.
Eldritch Knight is a reasonably Gish class - there are better, but we seem to ba talking about core here
So Maybe "Fighter"1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/ Arcane Archer 2
Would give you 7th level wizard casting at 11th, and BAB=8
I've put Fighter in quotes because there are several options here: Ranger/Paladin/HexBlade/Fighter/whatever. You just need martial weapons and 1 BAB
Ed: you'd better have a use for Imbue Arrow for this to be worth it, or just stick straight EK; oh and you exit back into EK at 12th

[Baroncognito]

Well, if all you care about is the spell casting, then yes; clearly Eldritch Knight is far superior. However, you then have to ask "Why go for Eldritch Knight at all?" You get better spell casting if you just stick with Wizard.

Already, by deciding to go Eldritch Knight, you're demonstrating that you care about something beyond spell casting.

If you're going Arcane Archer, it's because you care about the Archer part more than you care about the arcane part.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

so anyone got a good guess as to around what tier an arcane archer would fall into? Im kinda assuming tier 3.

[Talentless]

so anyone got a good guess as to around what tier an arcane archer would fall into? Im kinda assuming tier 3.

They do passably(to pretty damn good when optimized) at their Schtick of Archer Gish, but not super amazing at much else.

Luckily, even with the spell casting dump they take for being an Arcane Archer, they still get all the important spells for the ranged Gishyness.

Unfortunately, that actually makes them a bit harder to classify. I personally think it varies on group make up, and which casting class gets used. A group with a full caster would make the Arcane Archer Tier 4, simply because of the full caster's spell level advantage for utility. At the same time, 4th level spells and below contain some pretty universally usefull utility spells to provide some non-ranged combat use for the AA.

What all that means is that it is more Tier 3.5 than anything else, if Wizard is the casting class used that is. It does well at Ranged Gish, but has some limited utility beyond Archery.

[DDogwood]

so anyone got a good guess as to around what tier an arcane archer would fall into? Im kinda assuming tier 3.

It depends what class(es) you use to get in. A Wizard/Arcane Archer is still Tier 1; even though you lose 2 caster Levels, you're still a good full caster. A Bard/Arcane Archer is still Tier 3, because it's still a Bard with a little boost in archery and a little drop in spellcasting. A Sorcerer Arcane Archer is still Tier 2. Arcane Archer doesn't have a tier by itself, because it's a PrC, not a class.

Also, Eldritch Knight is still Tier 1 if it's a Wizard with one level of Fighter. You don't lose enough to drop a tier. Yes, a vanilla Wizard is still better, but tiers are as much about the potential of a class as its specific power level. A Wizard with 8 Int is still a Tier 1 class, because the tier represents the potential power of the class, not the power of a specific character.

[Bovine Colonel]

If you're going Arcane Archer, it's because you care about the Archer part more than you care about the arcane part.

That or you quite understandably like the Imbue Arrows ability.