Has anyone done any good work making ToB more like Core 3.5?

[Lictor of Thrax]

What I mean is taking a lot of the stance/initiator/prepared manuevers weirdness from ToB and converting it to stuff that works more like traditional feats and spell-like abilities?

I ask simply because my DM is encouraging us to create our own Prestige Classes and in my looking around, I found a lot of people doing Telflammar Shadowlord remixes with Tome of Battle influences, but all of those focused on turning the Shadowlord into a ToB type class.

I want to sort of do the opposite and take a lot of the similar-minded Shadowhand stuff and do a ten level prestige using the Shadowlord as a base and then borrowing from ToB and turning it into a martial class that uses a lot of the Shadowhand stances/maneuvers/strikes but converts them into feats (especially the stances) and spell-like/SU/EX abilities

So I was wondering if there were any other past threads/builds/remixes that mused over turning ToB concepts but converting them to more traditional forms of abilities. Just so I could see what other, more experienced remixers think on the subject.

If not, I'll just continue button-mashing my way through this on my own . . . but I thought I would ask.

[Flickerdart]

Um...take the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats from ToB. You now have stances and maneuvers as feats. Now you are done, have a tall glass of lemonade.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, the issue is that you suck a lot of the strength out of the maneuver system by doing that. Think about Whirlwind Attack. The feat is actually quite good in some circumstances, like fighting lots of mooks. However the requirements are not only heartbreaking in that there are so many of them and they suck on their own, but they in turn focus your build around the entirely wrong thing for Whirlwind Attack. It's best use is for strength based trippers with reach, not movement oriented scout types.

Make it a maneuver however, and suddenly you have an ability that has less uses per day but doesn't take up as many resources to get. The same is true of Cleave/Great Cleave, Many shot/Greater Manyshot/Shot on the Run, and even Spring Attack.

But if you are going to make them more like the PHB, I would suggest making them into differentiated feat trees. Several lower level feats can be used for upper level ones, rather than locking people into a particular build.

[KillianHawkeye]

That's the opposite of what you should be doing!

[darksolitaire]

Yeah, my first thoughts were that you should make core more like ToB.

[dspeyer]

The main thing that changes if you PHBify ToB is the ready/expend/recover mechanic goes away. At that point, balance becomes an issue.

[Big Fau]

Why would any sane man do this? Feats are vastly limited in quantity, whereas maneuvers are more plentiful and balanced (give or take).

[Wyntonian]

....why?

OH GOD WHY.... no seriously, I don't even know what you're trying to accomplish with that. It's like making vegetarian bacon. It works fine as it is, you don't need to suck all the joy out of it with your nasty tofu.

[Hazzardevil]

Someone posted it in the Age of Warriors thread a few months ago, take a look at it.