Playing a Malconvoker

[DarkEternal]

So, I decided to try my hand with a summoner character. He's a young boy who discovered his sorcerous talent for summoning creatures, and went down the path of toying with demonic forces. So far, it's been pretty fun. I'm sorcerer 6/malconvoker 2, at the moment. I'll dip into a Shaper of Sands at the next level for some spells(plus it fits with my character's lore, which is basically a mix of Arabian nights and demon summoner), mainly because I want the "Summon Desert Ally" spell progression, again due to lore issues.

However, soon, the time will come to put my actual malconvoker skills to the test, and I'm a bit confused with how it works. I understand the Magic Circle against evil thing, or hell, against Good, too, if I want to summon a celestial creature, and I get the Planar binding spells as a class feature, but then I'm at a loss due to the range of options.

Someone went through the trouble of making the list of all eligible summons for the Summon Monster spell from various sources, but is there a similar list, or suggestion list, at the very least, for the Planar Binding? From what I understand you can summon pretty much any outsider you want, and that sounds like...quite a choice, so having some sort of a list would ease the process a fair lot.

[KiwiQuest]

Playing a Malconvoker myself (Malconvoker 5 atm, good stuff), found this to be pretty useful:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873014/Practical_Demonkeeping_%28A_Summoners_Guide_to_the _Lower_Planes%29

Last I checked, it was on Brilliant Gameologists' forums as well (Min/max), including the beginning of two guides for neutral and good outsiders respectively, but those seem to have been dead for quite a while.

[Venger]

I too am playing a malconvoker right now, it's the best. here's treantmonk's "mastering the malconvoker," it tells you a breakdown of every single monster you can summon with all the summon monster spells and how good they are:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289

since you are a sorcerer, don't forget to periodically swap out lower summon spells for better things as you level up, I doubt you'll have a lot of use for summoning a fiendish raven traptripper at level 11, especially since you have the summon desert ally chain available and can always use its 1s when necessary.

since as a sorcerer you use the sorcerer progression (obviously) you can only lose 2 caster levels and still have 9th level spells which you have already done (1 from malc1 and 1 from sand shaper 1) so keep that in mind for your future levels.

what were you thinking after you're done with your malconvoker levels?

[AzraeltheFalle]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0
Most importantly post 12-14.

[DarkEternal]

I've seen that post on the forums, and it helped me tremendously on building the malconvoker, but(and maybe I have missed it), it deals with the summon spells, not so much with the planar binding options, except with a few suggestions. I was thinking more of a list so that I can choose my own "tactic" in what creatures I would try to bind.


since you are a sorcerer, don't forget to periodically swap out lower summon spells for better things as you level up, I doubt you'll have a lot of use for summoning a fiendish raven traptripper at level 11, especially since you have the summon desert ally chain available and can always use its 1s when necessary.

since as a sorcerer you use the sorcerer progression (obviously) you can only lose 2 caster levels and still have 9th level spells which you have already done (1 from malc1 and 1 from sand shaper 1) so keep that in mind for your future levels.

what were you thinking after you're done with your malconvoker levels?

I actually spent a lot of feats so I don't lose my spellcasting levels, both for the Malconvoker and for the Master of Sands, two feats were spent(I think the name of the feat is Practiced spellcasting or something like that, so basically, my progression is the same as if I was a full sorcerer without loss in levels), not to mention the utterly useless feat I'll have to take so that I qualify for Master of Sands(something that has to do with you kicking arse in one specific dungeon I'll never visit)

As for my exchanged spells, I just recently discovered some "sorcerer only" spells that I was thinking of using, and while my entire build is exclusively only summoning(I don't have a single agressive spell memorised. Just summons, magic circles, Invisibility, and some quick escape spells like Expeditious retreat(swift) and Benign transposition), I might remember them. Especially that Wings of Cover, and perhaps Wings of Flurry.

I don't think we'll be playing the campaign that long for me to go through the entire Malconvoker, but I rather like the Shaper of sands as well as a class, so if it comes to that, I might try maxing it out, as well.

[Venger]

I've seen that post on the forums, and it helped me tremendously on building the malconvoker, but(and maybe I have missed it), it deals with the summon spells, not so much with the planar binding options, except with a few suggestions. I was thinking more of a list so that I can choose my own "tactic" in what creatures I would try to bind.
okay then. there's always this site, it's the best for finding monsters, you can search by type (outsider/elemental in this case) and HD for whichever planar binding you'll be using. it gives you the book/page number of where to find monsters:

http://monsterfinder.dndrunde.de/




I actually spent a lot of feats so I don't lose my spellcasting levels, both for the Malconvoker and for the Master of Sands, two feats were spent(I think the name of the feat is Practiced spellcasting or something like that, so basically, my progression is the same as if I was a full sorcerer without loss in levels), not to mention the utterly useless feat I'll have to take so that I qualify for Master of Sands(something that has to do with you kicking arse in one specific dungeon I'll never visit)

Practiced spellcaster will raise your caster level by up to 4 (to a maximum of your HD) but it does not advance your sorcerer progression.

at your current level, sor6/malc2, you have a caster level of 8, which is equal to your HD (for durations, spell penetration, etc) but you are only casting spells as a 7th level sorcerer due to malconvoker's dead first level. since it does not advance spellcasting progression, you do not get more sorcerer spells as though you had taken a level in it at malc1. the same thing is true of sand shaper1, so you do not have 4th level spells yet. you will get them at lvl 9.

planar touchstone (city of the dead) is actually perfect for your character. the base ability (the one that you get even if you don't visit the dungeon) is +1 to all cha checks (like bluff for malconvoker) and +1 insight bonus on caster lvl checks made to overcome a creature's SR for all spells that you cast keyed off cha (you are a sorcerer, this is all of your spells)

the high lvl ability, the one you've got to do the quest for, is mass charm monster 1/week has 4 uses before you need to recharge it, and that's useful no matter what type of character you're playing, especially if you have only summon spells. it also uses your character lvl as your caster level, so it ignores your 2 dead levels, which is nice (and don't forget about that +1 from planar touchstone if the enemy has SR, it only takes 1 to miss)


As for my exchanged spells, I just recently discovered some "sorcerer only" spells that I was thinking of using, and while my entire build is exclusively only summoning(I don't have a single agressive spell memorised. Just summons, magic circles, Invisibility, and some quick escape spells like Expeditious retreat(swift) and Benign transposition), I might remember them. Especially that Wings of Cover, and perhaps Wings of Flurry.

the only sorc only spells are arcane fusion and greater arcane fusion, and I think a couple of dragony ones. okay, summoners are fun. what's your party breakdown like? benign transposition is an excellent choice for summoners since your summons are always considered willing. get based by a bad guy? bam! fiendish centipede! it's especially useful when being grappled since it's got no somatic components. if your DM allows knowstones (many who have sorcerer PCs do) that's a way to boost your spells known if you've got a lot of money



I don't think we'll be playing the campaign that long for me to go through the entire Malconvoker, but I rather like the Shaper of sands as well as a class, so if it comes to that, I might try maxing it out, as well.

okay, well if you won't be playing long enough to get 9th lvl spells anyway (character level 20 for your guy) then it doesn't matter if your build choices make you lose them.

if you lose one more caster level, you will be casting as a 17th lvl sorcerer at level 20 (read: no 9th lvl spells) but if your game won't go on that long, obviously that doesn't matter.

a good break point for malconvoker if you want to focus on planar binding (good choice, there's lots of different ways to malconvoke) is level 6, after you get deceitful bargaining. that'll make you sor6/malc6 with 8 levels left. sand shaper 7 gets you its incredibly cool desert slumber ability that lets you act as though you got "regenerate" cast on you whenever you can find some dirt to bury yourself in. the 8th lvl doesn't give any abilities, but advances casting (sand shaper's other dead level comes at lvl 9, so you don't care) you can go into some other full casting class at that point for a level if your game goes on that long. sand shaper's great for free metamagic and moar caster lvl boosts as long as you're in the desert (which it sounds like you are) or just carry 15 pounds of dirt around.

what's your build like? what feats've you got? who else is in your party? your character sounds like a lot of fun

[DarkEternal]

The build's got a lot of "stretches", approved by the DM. Due to being a child character, which is not covered in the PH'b, I got approved from the DM, that he's got +2 on Cha and +2 on Dex in exchange for -2 on STR and CON, plus, his base speed is 20 feet, due to being small, plus everything else that being small brings(bonus to AC, minus to Intimidate checks, small weapons and such).

My feats are, Augment summoning, Spell focus(conjuration)(both needed for Malconvoker), Practiced spellcasting(that I'll take two times, apparently I understood it wrong for spellcasting purposes, one for Sand Shaper, one for Malconvoker, since it needs to be taken seperately), and the one that lessens my cast time for summoning spells, forgot it's name.

We rolled for stats, and the Dice gods were very nice to me, so my final build was:

Sorc 6/Malconvoker 1

STR 11
DEX 14
CON 14(+2 amulet of health equipped)
INT 14
CHA 23(18 base, +2 due to agreement with the DM, and +2 from a cloak)
WIS 14

Also have some basic stuff, to survive in the wild(it cost me plenty to have enough Survival ranks to qualify later for Sand shaper, but I tied it with my lore), that circlet that gives you +3 on all charisma checks, and sandals of the vagabond so I can't be fatigued and get +2 on initiative checks.

Skill wise, I maxed bluff, naturally, have a few ranks in survival, knowledge(planes and arcana, with a rank or two in nature), I always save at least one skill point to learn a new language at each new level. On the following level I'll waste two skill points for a skill trick, the one about getting +5 on all Knowledge checks about creatures.

The spell I like most right now is Wings of cover, which I will take on next level, an immediate actions, gives you full cover against any first attack, or spell that you are the target of.

Basically, I play a young sorcerer who came from the depths of the Anauroch desert, which is basically a huge dead magic zone in the time line we play with(with occassional pockets where magic does work), and magic is hated in his tribe of nomad folk. Still, his gifts awakened at a very young age, when he was about to be killed by a giant scorpion, on instinct. The others saw, and due to the laws of the desert, he was banished from his tribe. Found by wandering merchants, he was adopted, where he learned a lot of his bluff skills, and travelled for a few years with them before the entire malconvoker bit with the book about using evil to fight evil came into his posession. He travels the world, learning as much as he can about those creatures, while studying the malconvoker book how to bend them to his will. I'm having a lot of fun so far with it, but we just started playing recently and I'm adding new stuff to him as we go along.

The party is composed out of a rogue, paladin, spirit shaman, barbarian and myself, a summoner.

At the moment I managed to lie good enough to our party paladin that I'm a prince in the Anauroch desert and that he's honor bound to protect my life. Which I'm certain will not come and bite me later :)

[Venger]

The build's got a lot of "stretches", approved by the DM. Due to being a child character, which is not covered in the PH'b, I got approved from the DM, that he's got +2 on Cha and +2 on Dex in exchange for -2 on STR and CON, plus, his base speed is 20 feet, due to being small, plus everything else that being small brings(bonus to AC, minus to Intimidate checks, small weapons and such).
okay, well that's definitely good to know.


My feats are, Augment summoning, Spell focus(conjuration)(both needed for Malconvoker), Practiced spellcasting(that I'll take two times, apparently I understood it wrong for spellcasting purposes, one for Sand Shaper, one for Malconvoker, since it needs to be taken seperately), and the one that lessens my cast time for summoning spells, forgot it's name.
yep, figured you had the 2 prereqs for malc, lol. practiced spellcaster does not work that way. the feat you're talking about is "rapid spell." do you have any metamagic reducers activated? that +1 to the spell level can be brutal at the low-mid lvls. what do you do with your extra move action in rounds when you use rapid spell?

you don't need to take it 2 times. you don't even "need" to take it once since most of your spells are summons that don't require a save from your enemies, CL just makes them last a little longer and malconvoker already gives a free extend effect

how practiced spellcaster works is, let's say that you are a sorcerer 5/paladin 3 for example and took practiced spellcaster

obviously, paladin does not progress sorcerer casting, so you take practiced spellcaster (sorcerer) you take it with a specific class just like you take exotic weapon proficiency (specific weapon) in this case, your HD would be 8, and practiced spellcaster would raise it up to 4, but not exceeding your HD, so you would have a caster level of 8, but you would cast spells as a 5th level sorcerer (your highest spells known would be lvl 2) so you could only cast SM2, but it'd last for 8 rounds.

you only need to take it once for your guy. take "practiced spellcaster(sorcerer)" since that is the casting you are progressing. when you take malc1, your character level is 7 right now so practiced spellcaster raises your caster level to 7 (since that's less than your normal CL+4 and it's less than or equal to your HD) but you're still casting spells/day/spells known/slots as a sorcerer 6



We rolled for stats, and the Dice gods were very nice to me, so my final build was:

Sorc 6/Malconvoker 1

STR 11
DEX 14
CON 14(+2 amulet of health equipped)
INT 14
CHA 23(18 base, +2 due to agreement with the DM, and +2 from a cloak)
WIS 14
I assume you added your inherent bonus at lvl 4 to your cha, because 18+2+2=22. good stats! they were kind to you indeed



Also have some basic stuff, to survive in the wild(it cost me plenty to have enough Survival ranks to qualify later for Sand shaper, but I tied it with my lore), that circlet that gives you +3 on all charisma checks, and sandals of the vagabond so I can't be fatigued and get +2 on initiative checks.
circlet of persuasion. a must have for a malconvoker.


Skill wise, I maxed bluff, naturally, have a few ranks in survival, knowledge(planes and arcana, with a rank or two in nature), I always save at least one skill point to learn a new language at each new level. On the following level I'll waste two skill points for a skill trick, the one about getting +5 on all Knowledge checks about creatures. you are thinking of "collector of stories" from complete scoundrel. it's not all knowledge checks about creatures though, just knowledge checks to identify them (and learn about their powers/vulnerabilities) why do you want it? are you planning on knowledge devotion later on? how are you getting all those things as class skills? your sorcerer class skills list is:

Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (arcana), Profession, and Spellcraft

malconvoker adds
Disguise, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes)

knowledge(nature), survival, and speak language are not on there. while I know you've got a +2 int mod and are presumably human, 5 skill points a level isn't enough to benefit much from collector of stories while maxing ranks in bluff. do you get more skill points than a normal sorcerer or does your DM allow you to treat these skills as class skills?



The spell I like most right now is Wings of cover, which I will take on next level, an immediate actions, gives you full cover against any first attack, or spell that you are the target of.
it is indeed a most excellent spell. I can find no fault with it and having it on tap spontaneously can't be beat.


Basically, I play a young sorcerer who came from the depths of the Anauroch desert, which is basically a huge dead magic zone in the time line we play with(with occassional pockets where magic does work), and magic is hated in his tribe of nomad folk. Still, his gifts awakened at a very young age, when he was about to be killed by a giant scorpion, on instinct. The others saw, and due to the laws of the desert, he was banished from his tribe. Found by wandering merchants, he was adopted, where he learned a lot of his bluff skills, and travelled for a few years with them before the entire malconvoker bit with the book about using evil to fight evil came into his posession. He travels the world, learning as much as he can about those creatures, while studying the malconvoker book how to bend them to his will. I'm having a lot of fun so far with it, but we just started playing recently and I'm adding new stuff to him as we go along.

The party is composed out of a rogue, paladin, spirit shaman, barbarian and myself, a summoner.

At the moment I managed to lie good enough to our party paladin that I'm a prince in the Anauroch desert and that he's honor bound to protect my life. Which I'm certain will not come and bite me later :)

that sounds like a fun character to play :) lying is the best, especially to paladins. hey, making bad decisions IC is where all the best roleplay fodder comes from, pissing people off is where story hooks originate.

[Randomguy]

You can prestige into thaumaturgist after you're done the malconvoker class. It's better than taking more levels in sorcerer, and grants all sorts of nifty benefits.

[Madcrafter]

While thaumatugist is alright with a malconvoker, they don't mesh as well as one might think. Malconvoker is much more focused on the short term summon monster, while thaumaturgist is planar ally. I looked into it once, and IIRC there are a few other issues with thaumaturgist that make it only ok, not great. Granted, it is much better than more sorcerer levels.

[Gnorman]

The definitive version of Practical Demonkeeping is the brilliant gameologist version (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0), though now that those boards are read-only I may have to create a new version.

And yes, I have sorely slacked on neutral/good summons, but it's too late to continue those guides on BG. I suppose one of these days I may revive the project, but my commitments to other projects and overall whimsical, capricious nature most likely preclude that.

As far as specific advice, my number one recommendation is to become intimately familiar with each of your summons, what they can do, and how they can help (or sometimes hurt) you. Also, find out what others you can convince your DM into allowing you to have, some by RAW, others not so much, as there are some real gems out there (I refer specifically to the Jovoc, the Nashrou, and the Voor at low-ish levels) that you have to pull some strings to command.

[DarkEternal]

[/QUOTE]



yep, figured you had the 2 prereqs for malc, lol. practiced spellcaster does not work that way. the feat you're talking about is "rapid spell." do you have any metamagic reducers activated? that +1 to the spell level can be brutal at the low-mid lvls. what do you do with your extra move action in rounds when you use rapid spell?

Hide behind the paladin :). But really, we just started playing, so I'm just learning the ropes.


you don't need to take it 2 times. you don't even "need" to take it once since most of your spells are summons that don't require a save from your enemies, CL just makes them last a little longer and malconvoker already gives a free extend effect

how practiced spellcaster works is, let's say that you are a sorcerer 5/paladin 3 for example and took practiced spellcaster

obviously, paladin does not progress sorcerer casting, so you take practiced spellcaster (sorcerer) you take it with a specific class just like you take exotic weapon proficiency (specific weapon) in this case, your HD would be 8, and practiced spellcaster would raise it up to 4, but not exceeding your HD, so you would have a caster level of 8, but you would cast spells as a 5th level sorcerer (your highest spells known would be lvl 2) so you could only cast SM2, but it'd last for 8 rounds.

you only need to take it once for your guy. take "practiced spellcaster(sorcerer)" since that is the casting you are progressing. when you take malc1, your character level is 7 right now so practiced spellcaster raises your caster level to 7 (since that's less than your normal CL+4 and it's less than or equal to your HD) but you're still casting spells/day/spells known/slots as a sorcerer 6

Yeah, I figured it out, I'll see what I can do with my DM about it, though really, this is just a short campaign( at least designed as such, we'll see if he'll carry it on, usually I'm the DM to our adventures).



I assume you added your inherent bonus at lvl 4 to your cha, because 18+2+2=22. good stats! they were kind to you indeed

Yeah, forgot to mention that. And I'll be level 8 next session, so that'll be 24 in CHA.


you are thinking of "collector of stories" from complete scoundrel. it's not all knowledge checks about creatures though, just knowledge checks to identify them (and learn about their powers/vulnerabilities) why do you want it? are you planning on knowledge devotion later on? how are you getting all those things as class skills? your sorcerer class skills list is:

Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (arcana), Profession, and Spellcraft

malconvoker adds
Disguise, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes)

knowledge(nature), survival, and speak language are not on there. while I know you've got a +2 int mod and are presumably human, 5 skill points a level isn't enough to benefit much from collector of stories while maxing ranks in bluff. do you get more skill points than a normal sorcerer or does your DM allow you to treat these skills as class skills?

I don't really have the sheet on me now(the DM has them all), but if I remember my skill point distribution so far is, something along the lines of 10 ranks in bluff(with the circlet and charisma bonus, it adds up to 19), six ranks in Concentration, five or so ranks in Spellcraft, 4 ranks in Survival(cross class, need one more to qualify for Shaper of Sands), Knowledge(Planes) 5 ranks(I think that's cross class as well), three skill points went into languages, three or so went into Knowledge(Arcana), and honestly, I have no idea where the last five went. I know I started off with 50 skill points(the adventure started at level 7).






that sounds like a fun character to play :) lying is the best, especially to paladins. hey, making bad decisions IC is where all the best roleplay fodder comes from, pissing people off is where story hooks originate.

Yeah, I agree. We'll see how long I'll be able to keep it up :)


You can prestige into thaumaturgist after you're done the malconvoker class. It's better than taking more levels in sorcerer, and grants all sorts of nifty benefits.

I didn't really think that far ahead, and I'll probably be back at the DM's table as the lord and master of all before that happens :)


The definitive version of Practical Demonkeeping is the brilliant gameologist version, though now that those boards are read-only I may have to create a new version.

And yes, I have sorely slacked on neutral/good summons, but it's too late to continue those guides on BG. I suppose one of these days I may revive the project, but my commitments to other projects and overall whimsical, capricious nature most likely preclude that.

As far as specific advice, my number one recommendation is to become intimately familiar with each of your summons, what they can do, and how they can help (or sometimes hurt) you. Also, find out what others you can convince your DM into allowing you to have, some by RAW, others not so much, as there are some real gems out there (I refer specifically to the Jovoc, the Nashrou, and the Voor at low-ish levels) that you have to pull some strings to command.

Yes, that is the best guide, and pretty good too, for planar binding, that I have seen(discovered it today, due to some links leading from here). I'll have to look for the good guys as well, on my own, I guess :). What do you mean talking to the DM? Nashrou is pretty simple in terms of summoning. He's basically on your Summon Monster 3 list, and that's it, no real conditions necessary, and even if it was alignment restricted for casting, I thought the Malconvoker's special ability allows him to summon such creatures without worry about such things?

[Venger]

Hide behind the paladin :). But really, we just started playing, so I'm just learning the ropes.
lol, always a good strategy. they might as well be useful somehow. :smalltongue:


Yeah, I figured it out, I'll see what I can do with my DM about it, though really, this is just a short campaign( at least designed as such, we'll see if he'll carry it on, usually I'm the DM to our adventures).
okay. we optimise a lot on these boards (I'm still coming down from Iron chef) so my first reaction is usually for long-term plans since the way the system's set up, you kind of have to plan your character out in advance if you want to take anything (like you did for malconvoker)


Yeah, forgot to mention that. And I'll be level 8 next session, so that'll be 24 in CHA.
quite impressive.




I don't really have the sheet on me now(the DM has them all), but if I remember my skill point distribution so far is, something along the lines of 10 ranks in bluff(with the circlet and charisma bonus, it adds up to 19), six ranks in Concentration, five or so ranks in Spellcraft, 4 ranks in Survival(cross class, need one more to qualify for Shaper of Sands), Knowledge(Planes) 5 ranks(I think that's cross class as well), three skill points went into languages, three or so went into Knowledge(Arcana), and honestly, I have no idea where the last five went. I know I started off with 50 skill points(the adventure started at level 7).

okay, that was about what I figured. planes would be a CC skill for you, as would speak language for all your sorcerer levels (it's a class skill for malc if you have points to burn) it's cool, but do you see the gist of what I mean? Intelligence is not very important (mechanically) to your build, so I suspect you won't seek to boost it much, and malc only gives 2 skillpoints/lvl, so you won't really have enough points to make very much use out of collector of stories since your mod to knowledges will be pretty low and you only have a few of them.

since you're so skillstarved and committed to buying more languages (good choice, RP and mechanicwise) talk to your DM and see if he'll allow malconvoker to treat speak language as a class skill, it seems a little silly that it doesn't have it, and it's not like it'll overpower you much.

that said, I don't know what kind of monsters you fight in your games, maybe they're just the kind that you can identify with nature/arcana/planes. that does cover most of the types. I was just asking if you had the points to allocate there since survival's obviously CC for you and you need to keep bluff up to snuff (if you fall behind for whatever reason, such as needing the points for survival, a slick way of doing this is taking skill focus:bluff before you hit malc3, since if you already have it, you can take another feat you qualify for instead)


Yeah, I agree. We'll see how long I'll be able to keep it up :)
heehee, lying is fun. malconvokery is the best




I didn't really think that far ahead, and I'll probably be back at the DM's table as the lord and master of all before that happens :)
that's cool, not all games go all the way to 20, most don't, it's just nice to have something to look forward to.



Yes, that is the best guide, and pretty good too, for planar binding, that I have seen(discovered it today, due to some links leading from here). I'll have to look for the good guys as well, on my own, I guess :). What do you mean talking to the DM? Nashrou is pretty simple in terms of summoning. He's basically on your Summon Monster 3 list, and that's it, no real conditions necessary, and even if it was alignment restricted for casting, I thought the Malconvoker's special ability allows him to summon such creatures without worry about such things?

I am unfamiliar with this guide. i haven't gotten to the level where planar binding is available yet (binder1/cloistered cleric5/malc3 here) so I haven't explored my options to that end yet. could someone give the link?

[DarkEternal]

I am unfamiliar with this guide. i haven't gotten to the level where planar binding is available yet (binder1/cloistered cleric5/malc3 here) so I haven't explored my options to that end yet. could someone give the link?

He linked the guide in his own post.


[QUOTE=Gnorman;12246598]The definitive version of Practical Demonkeeping is the brilliant gameologist version (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0), though now that those boards are read-only I may have to create a new version.

It deals mainly with fiends-demons, but it's got a fair few of those, as well.


okay. we optimise a lot on these boards (I'm still coming down from Iron chef) so my first reaction is usually for long-term plans since the way the system's set up, you kind of have to plan your character out in advance if you want to take anything (like you did for malconvoker)

Nah, we just play for fun, plus I put character background and story far before mechanics and optimising(not that I don't like my character beng able to do awesome stuff, but he doesn't have to be able to split a planet in two), which is why I went with sorcerer instead of wizard/archivist, since a sorcerer seems more in tune with the little kid prodigy then those two studious classes.


okay, that was about what I figured. planes would be a CC skill for you, as would speak language for all your sorcerer levels (it's a class skill for malc if you have points to burn) it's cool, but do you see the gist of what I mean? Intelligence is not very important (mechanically) to your build, so I suspect you won't seek to boost it much, and malc only gives 2 skillpoints/lvl, so you won't really have enough points to make very much use out of collector of stories since your mod to knowledges will be pretty low and you only have a few of them.

since you're so skillstarved and committed to buying more languages (good choice, RP and mechanicwise) talk to your DM and see if he'll allow malconvoker to treat speak language as a class skill, it seems a little silly that it doesn't have it, and it's not like it'll overpower you much.

that said, I don't know what kind of monsters you fight in your games, maybe they're just the kind that you can identify with nature/arcana/planes. that does cover most of the types. I was just asking if you had the points to allocate there since survival's obviously CC for you and you need to keep bluff up to snuff (if you fall behind for whatever reason, such as needing the points for survival, a slick way of doing this is taking skill focus:bluff before you hit malc3, since if you already have it, you can take another feat you qualify for instead)

I'm taking it more for fluff reasons. My character travels around with a binder of books that he constantly reads whenever it's downtime(setting up camp, staying at an inn, stuff like that), so having knowledge is sort of what he does, even if the actual mechanical amount of ranks won't be all that impressive. I only need to spend 2 more skill points for Survival to qualify for Shaper of sands and then I'm done with it, so yeah, I'll basically just pump the rest into Bluff, Concentration, languages and knowledge(the ones I can have, that is, like Knowledges that are not class skill for me). It won't be an easy journey, and I sure could use some Spellcraft, but I'll make do. Plus, when I take that touchstone feat, I'll have +21 to Bluff on level 9 which is not that bad.

[hex0]

Consider going into Nar Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2) as well.

[Venger]

Consider going into Nar Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2) as well.

nar demonbinder is a trap! it doesn't progress spellcasting, it starts over again with its own spellcasting, like ur-priest

[Fax Celestis]

planar touchstone (city of the dead) is actually perfect for your character. the base ability (the one that you get even if you don't visit the dungeon) is +1 to all cha checks (like bluff for malconvoker) and +1 insight bonus on caster lvl checks made to overcome a creature's SR for all spells that you cast keyed off cha (you are a sorcerer, this is all of your spells)

Also Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Summon Domain) for free double duration on all your [Summoning] spells.