Evil campaign

[Little Brother]

Okay my normal group(not the one I'm DMing) is talking about doing an Evil campaign. Fairly high-powered and mid-level(8-12). Two questions: Do they really cause all the trouble I've heard?

And two, there's probably gonna be infighting(In fact, the DM is planning for it, so eh), so I want some help building a character. My issue is that my boundaries between high-powered and absurdly stupid are kinda vague, and are different from the rest of the group, so advice would be nice. From what I can gather, one person is probably going druid, maybe Planar Shepard, an ecoterrorist, one is going ToB, and one person is either going DMM Melee cleric or Mailman. The rest(one or two) are undecided, or aren't telling.

I've decided to make my destruction of the game memorable. I am expecting to "win" at the end, and others are agreeing that it's probable(Yes, I eavesdrop, so what?), but I don't want this to be a typical "Oh LB just pulled her shenanigans again, just like any other high-powered game." This should stick in the mind forever.

So, the requirements: Power, obviously. The issue is, I want to WIN, I do not want to destroy and dominate. As such, cheese is expected, but I should not have to invest in a helmet.
Options: I don't want others to know every trick I have before the end. I need aces up every sleeve, with Garrillon Arms, Arms of Plenty, while an Insectile Thri-Kreen(Metaphorically, obviously).
Odd/vagueness: I don't want them to figure out what I am or what I am doing
Gear: WBL is going to be given, but WBL-mancy will probably result in the gear being taken. So what's good?
Cleverness: If I can surprise the DM with something clever, he's more likely to let it go, thus giving me an edge. Combining with the above, if I buy a wish, ain't sticking, but if I can weasel a wish for myself, it might be legit.

Preferred role: The spontaneous arcanist, or a gish(With emphasis on the magic). Skills and face are most important after those.
My initial idea is going to be a BardZilla. Do you guys think that can keep up with a Planar Shepard, Shadowcraft Mage, or some such? Other ideas?

For bonus points, get me both a wish and magic fang by level 8-12(No using my trick of Ardent/StP Erudite/Cerebromancer, no WBL abuse(It can be part of the trick, but not the whole way)), so I can enchant my back molars jawbone or fist or something to be a Wish item. On something inconspicuous, preferably.

Thanks.

[DoctorGlock]

The only thing that can keep up with the sort of powers mentioned is another planar shepherd/shadowcraft mage/incantatrix/tainted scholar whatever

Personally, I suggest wizard for spontaneous arcanist. Grab spell mastery and uncanny forethought and versatile spellcaster, as well as reserves of strength. I suggest shadowcraft as your primary objective and there is a suggestion in the book to use it with other races. the human bonus feat is your friend.

Item familiar is the incantatrix's best friend, it ensures that you can persist whatever you want without hassle

from there is comes down to persisting every miss chance and defense on the list and dropping ridiculous BC from above

now then, you have wizard 5/incant 3/shadowcraft 4 (many will argue that finishing shadowcraft is your priority, they may be right but i am a fan of persist)

now, if you go necropolitan you can increase your HP and more importantly are stun immune so keep popping your CL for negligible damage to self. when it comes down to fights and the need to actually remove those meddlesome team mates, lockdown everyone with BC, dominate the ToB user, summon unpleasant things and storm elementals and reserves a few elemental darts for massive damage. Alternately coup de grace with a scythe while they sleep but that is less climactic

alternately, depending on how the dm interprets ultimate magus, you can get double speed progression with your wizard after you get the spontaneous casting feats

wizard 5/incant 3/ultimate magus 4+ will yield a effective wizard level of 15 and 17 CL ( i think the second +CL is at 4th) and let you drop 8th level spells at CL 20 with reserves. PaO into a great gold wyrm and cut loose. Also, arcane spellsurge combos very well with uncanny forethought

tome of arcane lore contains every arcane spell, with uncanny you can arguably cast off list spells, so you can arcane fusion as well as arcane spellsurge all while a massive dragon. sometimes turning into a massive snake helps

[Little Brother]

A lot of good ideasI loke most of these ideas, and would go with them, but I really want this to be creativey-er way to do this, not just the typical wizard->???->Profit. BardZilla is what I am currently thinking. Anyone know good ways to expand the spell list? Arcane Disciple(War) would be useful, for persisting Divine Power.

Also, the UM thing doesn't work because it doesn't make Wizards spontaneous. Spontaneous Divination, on the other hand... Still might be a bit much stretching.

[Emperor Tippy]

How much does your party know about Psionics?

The low level is a potential problem. Although it is already high enough for unlimited PP, but too low to set up a stable time loop. :smallwink:

[DoctorGlock]

I loke most of these ideas, and would go with them, but I really want this to be creativey-er way to do this, not just the typical wizard->???->Profit. BardZilla is what I am currently thinking. Anyone know good ways to expand the spell list? Arcane Disciple(War) would be useful, for persisting Divine Power.

Also, the UM thing doesn't work because it doesn't make Wizards spontaneous. Spontaneous Divination, on the other hand... Still might be a bit much stretching.

Fair enough. I just caution that the bard will be unable to stand up to most of the lovecraftian horrors the others will supply. Still, this is doable.

Sublime chord and abjurant champion are amazing, maybe jade pheonix mage before hand. the key ability to have a chance against the opposition is antimagic. extraordinary spell aim will help

alternately divine bard variant/crusader/ruby knight/sublime chord (needs southern magician)/more ruby knight will also get the job done, provided you can find a way to get turning, you might be able to get initiate of mystra on that and if not you can still get extraordinary spell aim. I admit bards are not my area of expertise, only having ever made one.

the bard gish basics you probably already know. Dragonfire inspiration, snowflake wardance, song of the white raven. Words of creation is an rather nasty loss but ask the dm if you can have and fluff it as used to be good and fell from grace or some such. doomspeak, if you can use music or spells as a swift action can really mess up the enemy. the problem is you are still restricted to one foe at a time

Bard 4/Warblade 2/Jade Pheonix 4/Sublime chord 1/Jade x can gish fairly well. bards and sorcerers have alot in common so maybe your DM will allow sorc only spells on your bard. Bard 7/Abjurant champion 3/Sublime 1/abjurant 1 should also cut it

I'd consider ur-priest depending on how much gish to bard ratio you want
bard 4/crusader 1/UP 2/Ruby Knight 5 should end up with some fairly good stuff as well as doomspeak and dragonfire inspiration. You can DMM persist with that chassis as well. You will be thin for feats so you might have to pledge yourself to an elder evil for 1+1/5 levels bonus vile feats to dark chaos out

Edit: Tippy is right as usual, you can make a devastating ardent gish at this level. ardent 10/slayer 2 or something with substitute power and dominant ideal linking synchronicity to everything and midnight augmentationing bestow power shenanigans

Tippy, how do you pull off caster level shenanigans without the use of circle magic or knight of the weave shenanigans, just for a thought exercise?

[candycorn]

Savage Bard 3 / Ur Priest 2 / Divine Spellcasting PrC X (yes, it's possible, with a bit of cheese)

Use a domain granting PrC to get animal domain for Shapechange.

Get Favor of the Martyr, cast it (DMM Persisted), and follow up with energy immunity (Sonic). Follow with other buffs (Mind Blank, Death Ward, etc), then shapechange into a Crystalline Troll. You're immune to most things.

Level 9 spells come online at level 11, with a decent wisdom.

Alternately, with Psion and infinite PP tricks, you can maintain twinned synchronicity + Schism twinned synchronicity, + focus recovery methods, to have 4 readied actions every turn.

[DoctorGlock]

Savage Bard 3 / Ur Priest 2 / Divine Spellcasting PrC X (yes, it's possible, with a bit of cheese)

Is that cheese dependent on bloodline use, because most DMs interpret those poorly and it will not work

[candycorn]

Is that cheese dependent on bloodline use, because most DMs interpret those poorly and it will not work

No. Dependent on Restoration, level drain, Psychic Reformation, and certain purchased class features of other classes.

[DoctorGlock]

No. Dependent on Restoration, level drain, Psychic Reformation, and certain purchased class features of other classes.

Ah. I've sadly never seen that method allowed. Bloodlines as self contained LA buy off however I have seen and the work smashingly.

[Little Brother]

How much does your party know about Psionics?

The low level is a potential problem. Although it is already high enough for unlimited PP, but too low to set up a stable time loop. :smallwink:I am the expert of my group(I was the first person I can think of who actually came up with the Ardent 1/Disciplined StP Erudite3/Cerebromancer 7 for double 9s at level 11). They don't know a lot, but they know enough to make me have to explain the build and all of its abilities and subtleties to the DM. That puts a massive crimp into the power I can throw out.

Fair enough. I just caution that the bard will be unable to stand up to most of the lovecraftian horrors the others will supply. Still, this is doable.Bards can persist buffs up there with Clerics, I think I'll be fine. Especially if the enemies think the exact same thing.

Sublime chord and abjurant champion are amazing, maybe jade pheonix mage before hand. the key ability to have a chance against the opposition is antimagic. extraordinary spell aim will helpWhile nice, I do lose some of my music, and by extension buffing power, I also think the below is better if I wanna go there.

alternately divine bard variant/crusader/ruby knight/sublime chord (needs southern magician)/more ruby knight will also get the job done, provided you can find a way to get turning, you might be able to get initiate of mystra on that and if not you can still get extraordinary spell aim. I admit bards are not my area of expertise, only having ever made one.I admit, if I cut the sublime chord(Or at least, a few levels), this could be really nice. Bard X/Sacred Exorcist 1/Crusader 1/RKV whatever/Bard Y(/Sublime Chord 2/4?)

the bard gish basics you probably already know. Dragonfire inspiration, snowflake wardance, song of the white raven. Words of creation is an rather nasty loss but ask the dm if you can have and fluff it as used to be good and fell from grace or some such. doomspeak, if you can use music or spells as a swift action can really mess up the enemy. the problem is you are still restricted to one foe at a timeMusic is tight it the main issue. The more bard levels I have, the more music I can give up for, say, Extra Music(ECS p34). Feats are also kinda tight, but I should be able to fit those in.

Savage Bard 3 / Ur Priest 2 / Divine Spellcasting PrC X (yes, it's possible, with a bit of cheese)

Use a domain granting PrC to get animal domain for Shapechange.What do you think about Bard 10/Ur-Priest 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 8/Bard 1 with a Ring of Evasion. Maybe a dip in Contemplative in there, somewhere?

Get Favor of the Martyr, cast it (DMM Persisted), and follow up with energy immunity (Sonic). Follow with other buffs (Mind Blank, Death Ward, etc), then shapechange into a Crystalline Troll. You're immune to most things.

Level 9 spells come online at level 11, with a decent wisdom.This is starting to taste like regular Ur-Priest nonsense, which, I admit, I enjoy a lot, but is not the way I was planning on going.

If I was, I had a way to have fun with Beholder Mage

Any headway on the wish thing?

EDIT: Okay, since people don't seem to know the trick of BardZilla, I'll explain: Basically, you're a human, and use Talfirian song to bypass the level limit of Metamagic Song, so using some tasty bard-exclusives and such to persist.

Anyone here know any ways to get bonus songs/day without dropping/picking up MWK Lutes/Vests of Legends?

[candycorn]

The trick is:

Get to level 6 (all savage bard).

Get level drained to 2.
Have an exalted words of creation bard inspire greatness you (+4 HD).
Psychic Reformation yourself to have the necessary skill ranks (with your extra HD, it raises the cap).
While under the effect of all of this, have restoration cast on you until you're back to level 6. Reselect as desired.

Now you're a Bard 2 / Ur priest 2 / Ardent 2 / Psychic Theurge 6 / Whatever you like.

That chassis there will get you level 9 spells at level 12, along with level 6 psionic powers. With a bit of work, you could segue into Sublime Chord and Cerebremancer, to get triple 9's by 20.

[Little Brother]

Rework:
Human Bard 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 7(If starting at 11, one extra level of bard is good)
2 flaws(No idea what to do with those. Thoughts?)
Feats
1: Talfirian Song, Heighten, Extend, Persist
3: Improved Binding
6: Metamagic Song
9: Extra Music

With this I have 5 musics/day, which is enough to fuel 1 Extend/Persist, and an additional Extend to combine with an anima persist, and I can persist 2 spells with Anima Mage. I cast as a level 9 bard at 10th level, and, by level 11, I will be bind Zceryll, for some sweet fun. Basically, all of my feats will be devoted to Extra Musics to power all the Extend/Persists I want to run. At 20, I'd have 9 levels of Bard and 16 from Extra Music, IIRC. Maybe cut one of the Extra Musics for a MM reducer, to be able to persist 6th level spells. Comes out about the same.

Thoughts? I can feat-shuffle infinite feats with a Vest of Legends if there's a psion/Cleric in the party to Embrace/shun or PsiRef, if I really need some extra musics.

[candycorn]

Personally? I'd focus less on Bard for that concept. Yeah, the persist trick is neat, but it's not a game changer, with a bard's spell list. If you were going higher level, sublime chord would make it a game changer, but that wouldn't really start to take off until Level 12 or so... However...

Bard 7 / Binder 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 3

Use the above trick for early entry (level drain + Inspire Greatness (purchased) + Psychic Reformation (purchased) + Restoration (purchased).

As a Bard 7, you have 3rd level spells, and with the bonus HD, you get to 10, to increase rank cap to 13, allowing qualifying for Sublime Chord at level 8. After that, you enter Anima Mage, allowing for your persist shenanigans, except with the Sorceror/Wizard spell list. Also, by level 18, you'll be casting 9th level arcane spells, you'll have more bardic music, and be all around nastier.

[Emperor Tippy]

Could do the old Wiz 5 (Spontaneous Divination/UM 3+ to get extra levels.

But that might be a bit high cheese.

You might want to look at being a Factotum instead, it makes it all the more impressive when you kill everybody else. The problem with levels 8-12 is that unless you are going to use some really high cheese stuff (early spell casting mostly), you are relatively limited in what you can do.

Oh yes, and UMD a scroll of Shapechange while in a village of Icarnum users, shapechange into an Incarnum Wraith and then kill them all. That gives you a nifty army of incorporeal undead that you can hide from your fellow party members until the time is right to have them pop out of the ground and kill them.

Use Incarnum wraiths because they don't suffer from daylight powerlessness, look cooler, and can't accidentally self replicate to infinity.

[Little Brother]

Personally? I'd focus less on Bard for that concept. Yeah, the persist trick is neat, but it's not a game changer, with a bard's spell list. If you were going higher level, sublime chord would make it a game changer, but that wouldn't really start to take off until Level 12 or so... However...Bards have several very nice persistable spells that sorcerers don't.


Bard 7 / Binder 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 3

Use the above trick for early entry (level drain + Inspire Greatness (purchased) + Psychic Reformation (purchased) + Restoration (purchased).Using bought early entry isn't gonna fly. Early entry probably won't fly in most cases, especially if it's that kind of entry.

As a Bard 7, you have 3rd level spells, and with the bonus HD, you get to 10, to increase rank cap to 13, allowing qualifying for Sublime Chord at level 8. After that, you enter Anima Mage, allowing for your persist shenanigans, except with the Sorceror/Wizard spell list. Also, by level 18, you'll be casting 9th level arcane spells, you'll have more bardic music, and be all around nastier.Basically, above. I don't care about the Sorc/Wizard list, unless I still get all the tasty bard spells, which there are a lot. That kind of early entry will get shot, and even if it wasn't, I'd probably still get picked off early. I am all for more bard levels, but I really want that EBL 10.You are underestimating the power of Zceryll.

And, at level 20, your build will have 8 bardic musics, mine'll have 9. If I was buying PsyRefs and such, I'd just be a fighter, which, actually, isn't that bad an idea. I might play a feat-rogue instead.

Anyone got any better concepts for this sorta game? Or earlier/better Wish access? Anyone know how much a Maximum Happy Fun Chamber(Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain+Symbol of Pain+Ambrosia distiller) costs? I am AFB at the moment.

[bigstipidfighte]

Personally? I'd focus less on Bard for that concept. Yeah, the persist trick is neat, but it's not a game changer, with a bard's spell list. If you were going higher level, sublime chord would make it a game changer, but that wouldn't really start to take off until Level 12 or so... However...

Bard 7 / Binder 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 3

Use the above trick for early entry (level drain + Inspire Greatness (purchased) + Psychic Reformation (purchased) + Restoration (purchased).

As a Bard 7, you have 3rd level spells, and with the bonus HD, you get to 10, to increase rank cap to 13, allowing qualifying for Sublime Chord at level 8. After that, you enter Anima Mage, allowing for your persist shenanigans, except with the Sorceror/Wizard spell list. Also, by level 18, you'll be casting 9th level arcane spells, you'll have more bardic music, and be all around nastier.

If you really want people to wonder what you are, throw in Ur-Priest. RAW might give you infinite CL, and if not it's still a nice boost. I made a thread about being a binding/arcane/divine triple threat once, though I wasn't using nearly as much cheese in my builds as you're considering, so it might not be too much help to you. One of the builds is a Sublime Chord/Ur-Priest/Anima Mage.

Also, afb, but doesn't Sublime Chord have a non-evil requirement? The original blasphemancer got around that by worshiping the dead god Tenebrous, but from the description of this game it sounds like having a tagline of Evil on your sheet might be a necessity.

EDIT: Found the old thread, might be helpful since you're not going to use too much cheese after all it seems) http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6739.0;wap2

[Emperor Tippy]

Anyone got any better concepts for this sorta game? Or earlier/better Wish access?
Well you can pull off gate and shapechange cheese at level 5 (right before level 6) without using anything even a bit fuzzy rules wise, and once you have started that chain you can keep it going forever for free.

[candycorn]

Bards have several very nice persistable spells that sorcerers don't.Sublime Chord gets both. In case of a spell being on both lists, they get the bard version.


Basically, above. I don't care about the Sorc/Wizard list, unless I still get all the tasty bard spells, which there are a lot. That kind of early entry will get shot, and even if it wasn't, I'd probably still get picked off early. I am all for more bard levels, but I really want that EBL 10.You are underestimating the power of Zceryll.No, I'm not. I'm just properly estimating the power of the wizard spell list + Bard spell list.


And, at level 20, your build will have 8 bardic musics, mine'll have 9. If I was buying PsyRefs and such, I'd just be a fighter, which, actually, isn't that bad an idea. I might play a feat-rogue instead.But my build would have spells at level 7, 8, and 9, and more lists to choose from.

Bard 7 / Binder 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 9 / Binder +2
Yes, only 7 bardic music. A couple shots of Extra Music should give all the music you need.

Lvl 1: Extend spell, Persist Spell, Heighten Spell, Talfirian Song
Lv 3: Metamagic Song
Lv 6: Easy Metamagic
Lv 9: Extra Song
Lv 12: Extra Song
Lv 15: Extra Song
Lv 18: Extra Song.

As an example, the above build would get 23 Bardic Music uses.
It would be able to extend any spell for free, and persist for 5 music. This allows 4 spells to be extend/persisted. With Embrace/shun, elder evil worship, or the like, you could get considerably higher.

That's enough to be effectively immune to most everything.

Yes, Zceryll is nice. Powerful, even. But it's not Tier 1. It's Tier 2. And the above build is tier 1, simply due to Extend/Persist Shapechange. Summoning something isn't as effective as being anything.

[Little Brother]

Well you can pull off gate and shapechange cheese at level 5 (right before level 6) without using anything even a bit fuzzy rules wise, and once you have started that chain you can keep it going forever for free.Without buying scrolls or doing any well-known enough(IE: Divine minion/pun-pun-esque/Omnicificer-eque) trick?

Please explain. Otherwise, I'm thinking playing an Illumian Feat Rogue, pulling bought shuffle-shenanigans for miracle access and other 9th level spells.

Next question: Thought on stat-line and the two feats that wouldn't be blown on getting a 9th-level slot? Should I just get more 9th level slots? At level 10, if I buy all of the PsiRefs at that point, I'd only spend 2325 by my count, so I'd still have 46000~ left, so what items are good? I need to get at least 19 wisdom, and decent charisma for spells. I'm thinking I'm wanting the penumbra bloodline for versatility. Envy domain gives me Wish, so I'm good there. Once I get wish, I nab a Ring of three Wishes, so wishes don't matter after the first one. I also would like to get a Maximum Happy Fun Chamber to fuel XP for spells.

[Emperor Tippy]

Nah, using scrolls of Shapechange and Gate.

[Optimator]

It depends entirely on your group. My group plays evil campaigns all the time, but we've a gentleman's agreement not to be too dickish to each other. We're a fairly mature group and we rarely, if ever, have problems. It might strain verisimilitude to have an evil party work together, share the loot, and defend/save each other's lives but it makes the game run smoothly.

[candycorn]

Ok, then.

Savage Bard 5 / Ur-priest 5 / Fochlucan lyrist 3 (Build comes fully online at level 13, with no early entry)

Relevant Abilities needed: DMM Persist, Ocular spell.

Cast DMM Persist Extended Power Leech (BoVD 101), targeting a commoner with straight 10's in every stat, for Charisma.
Cast DMM Persist Extended Power Leech (BoVD 101), targeting the same commoner, for Wisdom.

Chain and trap said commoner in a portable hole with a Succubus. That succubus has been controlled and commanded to use Charm Monster, every round, on said commoner. The commoner should have a bottle of air. The area inside the hole should be filled with an Energy Transformation Field (SpC), replicating Miracle, for Greater Restoration.

The Charm Monster SLA will be subsumed into the ETF. Every 2-3 rounds, a Greater Restoration will affect the commoner, restoring all drained ability scores. The drain, however, will occur all day, yielding a rather insane Charisma and Wisdom score.

Before the spells end, rest and prepare spells. DMM Persist Extended Power Leech for all 6 stats on the commoner (with your crazy high Charisma, you have the turn attempts. With your crazy high wisdom, you have the bonus spell slots).

You now have attributes that are insanely high for all stats, giving you saves of <don't roll a 1>, HP of <go ahead, hit me all day>, AC of <Did you roll a 20?> Initiative of <Are you a dire turtle? No? Then I'll take my turn>, and skill checks of <I succeed on every epic use ever>. Add on attack bonus of <don't roll a 1> and damage of <one shot the tarrasque with a rusty spoon>.

On the cheese meter, this ranks fairly high.

[Little Brother]

How do you get to speak Druidic?

[candycorn]

How do you get to speak Druidic?

Mindrape a druid.

[Little Brother]

Mindrape a druid.

How are you going to cast mindrape with 5th level spells?

[candycorn]

How are you going to cast mindrape with 5th level spells?

Here's an option (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm).

Alternately, This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasLesser.htm) on a lower level druid (spell states that they MUST follow the compelled course of action. Penalties only occur if the subject is prevented.). The action doesn't kill the druid, or result in certain death, so a Lesser geas on a 2 HD druid to "teach you druidic" would get the language for you, by RAW, if that druid failed its will save.

There are other options, for those that are willing to figure out how to make things happen. That requirement is really kinda a joke, for anyone with the ability to cast... well, spells.

[Little Brother]

Here's an option (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm).

Alternately, This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasLesser.htm) on a lower level druid (spell states that they MUST follow the compelled course of action. Penalties only occur if the subject is prevented.). The action doesn't kill the druid, or result in certain death, so a Lesser geas on a 2 HD druid to "teach you druidic" would get the language for you, by RAW, if that druid failed its will save.

There are other options, for those that are willing to figure out how to make things happen. That requirement is really kinda a joke, for anyone with the ability to cast... well, spells.I like that idea a lot then. That is definitely my backup(Though I might not use the power leach until I need it).

Here's what my main plan is now looking like: Naenhoon Illumian Feat Rogue 8/Swordsage 2(/Warblade 1/Psychic Rogue 1/Swordsage +2/Psychic Rogue+6)

Feats: 1: Magical Training, (f)Heighten, (f)Arcane Disciple(Envy) (R) Something to be shuffled away to Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment-Sun Domain
2: Something to be shuffled away for Extra Turning
3: Earth Sense
4: Shuffle for Earth Spell
6: Penumbra Bloodline(Shuffled) and Extra Slot
8: Adaptive Style or Extra Slot or something
9: Extra Slot or practiced Caster or Shadow Blade or something.

Maneuvers are Cloak of Deception, shadow jaunt, some other shadow hand, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Distracting Ember. Stances are something and Assassin's Stance

Wish abuse for teh lulz, try to confuse the hell out of my "allies" before the end. Thoughts?

[candycorn]

It is my belief that Magical Training does not ladder that way by the rules, so I wouldn't be the best source for an opinion on your primary build selection.

[kardar233]

Two ideas:

Play an artificer. You're the guy who is convinced that he is a nice guy, and that his party are actually really good people but very misunderstood. Picture :elan: as part of the Linear Guild. Carry around a bucket of wands but only use them to be a skillmonkey. Make everyone the magic items they want. In other words, be indispensable but not dangerous. Then when that Mailman turns on you, he finds out that the Boots of Teleportation you made for him are also Boots of Dancing that were just waiting for your command word. And then he gets a Twinned Energy Admixture (Cold) Energy Substitution (Cold) Snowcast Maximized Empowered Piercing Cold Moonbolt to the face.

How about:
Venerable Spellscale Dragonwrought Kobold
Bard6/Binder1/Anima Mage2/Spellthief1/Sublime Chord2/Anima Mage+8
Use Zcercyll to summon creatures that you then take the casting of. In-game, treat it as similar to your pact bindings. Use Master Spellthief together with Sublime Chord for massive CL, and use uncapped spells when something needs to die. Use Anima Mage's free metamagic to persist high-level self-buffs, but leave one free just in case. Most of the time, you should be able to get by with the spells you steal from your summons, or the summons themselves. If someone tries to fight you, deny his attacks with Wings of Cover and insta-kill him with a Maximized Empowered Wings of Flurry or a Maximized Maw of Chaos.

[Little Brother]

Two ideas:

Play an artificer. You're the guy who is convinced that he is a nice guy, and that his party are actually really good people but very misunderstood. Picture :elan: as part of the Linear Guild. Carry around a bucket of wands but only use them to be a skillmonkey. Make everyone the magic items they want. In other words, be indispensable but not dangerous. Then when that Mailman turns on you, he finds out that the Boots of Teleportation you made for him are also Boots of Dancing that were just waiting for your command word. And then he gets a Twinned Energy Admixture (Cold) Energy Substitution (Cold) Snowcast Maximized Empowered Piercing Cold Moonbolt to the face. That is a brilliant idea, but, honestly, I have no idea how the hell an artificer works. They confuse the hell out of me.

How about:
Venerable Spellscale Dragonwrought Kobold
Bard6/Binder1/Anima Mage2/Spellthief1/Sublime Chord2/Anima Mage+8
Use Zcercyll to summon creatures that you then take the casting of. In-game, treat it as similar to your pact bindings. Use Master Spellthief together with Sublime Chord for massive CL, and use uncapped spells when something needs to die. Use Anima Mage's free metamagic to persist high-level self-buffs, but leave one free just in case. Most of the time, you should be able to get by with the spells you steal from your summons, or the summons themselves. If someone tries to fight you, deny his attacks with Wings of Cover and insta-kill him with a Maximized Empowered Wings of Flurry or a Maximized Maw of Chaos.The issue is that doesn't get Zceryll, nor does it have access to Talfirian song, and a couple of free persists due to it.

[kardar233]

I don't know what Talfirian Song is, but that has EBL 13 (you need Improved Binding to enter Anima Mage there) so you'd get Zceryll.

[kudosmog]

Okay my normal group(not the one I'm DMing) is talking about doing an Evil campaign. Fairly high-powered and mid-level(8-12). Two questions: Do they really cause all the trouble I've heard?


Not if everyone doesn't think of evil as "backstabbing idiots who don't know how to achieve goals" and instead think of evil as power hungry/selfish individuals bent on achieving goals.

In my evil campaign there is always a power struggle. I am constantly trying to take control/leadership of the group, but there is another individual who is more powerful than I am who also tries to lead. In addition to this, another member of the party wants desperately to achieve her one single goal, and if we aren't pursuing that task she will cause problems.

But, it's great roleplay.

We have our end goals, and we work together to achieve them. As we play we realize certain characters have strengths we can use, and weaknesses we can use against them.
I find the same exact thing happens in "good" campaigns.

As for building your character, I can't help with that. My vampire cleric is highly unoptimized.