[PF] Is the Brawler the new Mr. Lockdown?

[Frosty]

The Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/brawler) is a Fighter archetype in Pathfinder, and I find that it looks to fit the bill for something that has been missing in the core rules: Lockdown

Enemies adjacent to the Brawler have a penalty to attack rolls (it's kinda like Iron Guard Glare except it benefits you too) AND to their Concentration checks (and it stacks with Disruptive). Not only that, any enemies that start adjacent to the Brawler provokes an AoO if they try to 5ft step away or Withdraw away.

Later on, Brawlers even get a (huge) bonus to their Stand Still combat maneuver check. Slap on the Tiger Pounce (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/tiger-pounce-combat) feat and you can really follow someone (like a caster of some sort) to lock them down. Plus, Shock Trooper effects for added bonus!

The only thing that sucks is the lack of Reach (and even if you can get it, the abilities only work on adjacent enemies), but this works well enough vs a single enemy.

Any notes on what's missing from here for a lockdown build, and what feats and dips in other classes might help?

[Drelua]

I don't know much about optimization but I love that archetype for an unarmed fighter, and if you wanted to focus on lockdown, I guess a reach weapon could be helpful with Stand Still, or maybe just the Lunge, maybe both. Maybe then you could take Improved Disarm in case someone else has a reach weapon to force them to close, using Stand Still to make it impossible for them to leave, although they could still withdraw or take a 5-foot step I guess.

If you take both Lunge and a reach weapon, with the Reposition or Drag feats (I haven't actually read the description for either) you might be able to force them to be adjacent to you. Combine that with Enlarge Person and you've got 20' reach to pull people closer to you and do a damn good job stopping people from getting anywhere, especially if your allies can stay in that range. You can cost a lot of people their turns with that many Stand Still and Disarm maneuvers, although you might be better off settling for 15' reach to use your unarmed and keep that weapon training. Remember, it costs less than 10k (I've done the math, but I keep forgetting the exact number) to get a 20th CL Greater Magic Fang Permancied, then grab a Necklace of Natural Attacks wit whatever a lockdown build needs.

[Fax Celestis]

If it requires adjacency, you can get more of that by size increases.

[RndmNumGen]

Don't forget the Step-Up and Following Step for extra maneuverability goodness(I would throw Step-Up And Strike in there, but the Brawler's No Escape ability seems to have that covered.)

Thowing in some levels of Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/f) can also help keep enemies where you want them, what with the immediate action repositions.

[Frosty]

If it requires adjacency, you can get more of that by size increases.
Yah, size increases are always nice. What are some ways casters can do to escape once adjacent to the Brawler?

[Waker]

Teleportation or tumbling seem to be the best ways for a caster to evade you. Tumbling won't be easy since you are likely to have a decent CMD, but it's possible.
As for weapons, I'd say use spiked gauntlets as your close weapon and a reach weapon like a glaive or spiked chain for keeping them close.

[Frosty]

Teleportation or tumbling seem to be the best ways for a caster to evade you. Tumbling won't be easy since you are likely to have a decent CMD, but it's possible.
As for weapons, I'd say use spiked gauntlets as your close weapon and a reach weapon like a glaive or spiked chain for keeping them close.
A quickened Dimension Door would work, sure, but that's not a resource that casters should have much of, and (usually) requires a level 15 or above caster, which is rare. Standard actions spells would force a Concentration check (whivh a Brawler could give horrendous penalties to)

Tumble...could work, but the caster would be stupid to bet on its success. Most caster don't have amazing CMBs.

[Waker]

I recognize that a caster's options are limited and both are difficult. If 3.5 stuff is allowed, then they have more options, but within pathfinder I can't think of much.

[Frosty]

I recognize that a caster's options are limited and both are difficult. If 3.5 stuff is allowed, then they have more options, but within pathfinder I can't think of much.Thank god there's no anklets of translocation in PF. Those items ruin the day for Mr. Lockdown everyday.

[Tokuhara]

Grab the Mage Slayer tree from 3.5 and suddenly Mr. Punchy McLockdown becomes a caster's worst nightmare.

[Frosty]

Grab the Mage Slayer tree from 3.5 and suddenly Mr. Punchy McLockdown becomes a caster's worst nightmare.
Unfortunately, 3.5 sources not allowed for Mr. McPunchyWannabeCrusader either.

[Blyte]

There are a few great mage slayin barbarian powers as well. It's unfortunate that you would have to be very high level to have they two start to gel together well.

[stack]

Dipping maneuver master archetype monk would get you flurry of maneuvers, if you wanted to amp-up your maneuver abilities. If nothing else, it protects against natural 1s by giving you two shots at it (at a -2 penalty of course).

[RndmNumGen]

Dipping maneuver master archetype monk would get you flurry of maneuvers, if you wanted to amp-up your maneuver abilities. If nothing else, it protects against natural 1s by giving you two shots at it (at a -2 penalty of course).

Unfortunately, that won't really work well as Flurry of Maneuvers specifically uses your Monk level instead of your BAB when determining your CMB, so most if not all your build will have to be Monk levels if you want even a chance of hitting. Flowing Monk is better, because it gives an untyped (if situational) bonuses to AC, Trip and Reposition.

[stack]

FAQ/Errata:
The monk rules for flurry of blows state: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?

A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.
So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.

I would assume that the same is true for CMB, as it is based on BAB. Your DM would have to be pretty unreasonable to not let them stack.

[Blisstake]

A quickened Dimension Door would work, sure, but that's not a resource that casters should have much of, and (usually) requires a level 15 or above caster, which is rare. Standard actions spells would force a Concentration check (whivh a Brawler could give horrendous penalties to)

Tumble...could work, but the caster would be stupid to bet on its success. Most caster don't have amazing CMBs.

There's even a feat that can help here. Has a lot of pre-req feats... but hey, fighters get lots of those.

[Frosty]

There's even a feat that can help here. Has a lot of pre-req feats... but hey, fighters get lots of those.The link doesn't work. What feat you talking about?

[Blisstake]

Huh, that was weird...

Teleport Tactician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/teleport-tactician-combat)

[Frosty]

Huh, that was weird...

Teleport Tactician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/teleport-tactician-combat)I like that feat. What happens if someone else (like another caster) casts Dimension Door and brings me along with him? Do I still provoke? I am leaving a square threatened by the enemy via teleportation, but I didn't personally use a teleportation abolity.

[Blisstake]

Interesting situation.

I'm not sure based on the wording of the feat, but I think it should apply to anyone who teleport to/from you, regardless of who cast the spell (or ability)