Tiny Opponents

[Ardantis]

How many ways are there for Tiny opponents to improve their combat against Medium characters?

Off the top of my head, Confound the Big Folk, Underfoot Combat, Swarm Fighting, and Giantbane.

Additionally, Clever Wresling and Close-Quarters fighting are useful to avoid grapples.

Are there any classes which grant bonuses like these?

Which creatures would be most useful for this (assuming ECL 6 with Fighter class levesl to gain feats?)

I'm trying to make opponents for my game which will be underestimated.

[bigstipidfighte]

Giant Killing Style (ToB page72) is a 3rd-level stance that gives you +2 attack +4 damage while fighting an opponent of a larger size category.

EDIT: Also, Setting Sun manuevers in general might be useful for negating grapples and bull rushes and such, and have flavor that meshes well with what you're doing.

[Weezer]

Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny_But_Youre_Dead_the_other_melee_Kille r_Gnome_for_your_pleasure) is a build that makes use of that concept. One key thing you're missing is the blade bravo PrC, it has some great anti-big people stuff.

[Madcrafter]

EDIT: Ninjas!

[Flickerdart]

Kobolds are Small but count as Tiny thanks to Slight Build. Them and Jermlaines are your best bets for a base creature race.

[bigstipidfighte]

You could be that one crazy kobold build that could count as anything from diminutive to huge depending on your mood... I can look it up of you're interested in kobold.

[Ardantis]

Flickerdart, thanks for the tip on Kobolds. I would totally use Kobolds.

Bigstipidfighter, I would be interested in that weird type of Kobold. Would you look up the details?

My other thought was pseudodragons, but they're both higher LA and more intimidating in appearance than Kobolds. Jermlaines are a pretty high LA, aren't they? What book are they in?

[Urpriest]

Flickerdart, thanks for the tip on Kobolds. I would totally use Kobolds.

Bigstipidfighter, I would be interested in that weird type of Kobold. Would you look up the details?

My other thought was pseudodragons, but they're both higher LA and more intimidating in appearance than Kobolds. Jermlaines are a pretty high LA, aren't they? What book are they in?

Jermlaines are in the MMII IIRC, and are LA +0. So are Muckdwellers from Serpent Kingdoms.

[Elboxo]

5th level of Master Thrower makes all ranged attacks against someone your size or larger touch attacks

[Ardantis]

Thanks guys

[Necroticplague]

You could be that one crazy kobold build that could count as anything from diminutive to huge depending on your mood... I can look it up of you're interested in kobold.

You mean tinyvonmcbighuge? That build doesn't work on several levels,including ignoring what strongarm bracers do, what jotunbrud does, the fact jotunbrud is human only, what slight build actually does, the fact expansion,compession,enlarge person, and shrink person don't stack

[Runestar]

Shadow blade feat (tome of battle) lets you use your dex mod to damage (and tiny races typically have high dex bonuses). In general, I feel tome of battle is the way to go, as many of the maneuvers are independent of weapon damage, so you are disadvantaged by your low str/weapon dice.

Any way to work around that annoying 0-foot reach?

[Ravens_cry]

Reach weapons of some sort would be useful for Tiny creatures for an easy way to attack Biggers without any magic or much build specialization. Kusari-Gama (see DMG) is nice as its a one handed spiked chain basically.

[Darrin]

Reach weapons of some sort would be useful for Tiny creatures for an easy way to attack Biggers without any magic or much build specialization.

Nope. Tiny creature has a natural reach of zero. Reach weapon doubles your natural reach. 2 times zero = zero.

Whip dagger might work better (15' reach), depending on how your DM converts the weapon to 3.5 rules, but watch out for AoOs.

[Necroticplague]

take aberration blood and inhuman reach. This is a flat +5 to reach, regardless of size. Then add a reach weapon (spiked chain is most worth it, if you need to spend the feat). For more fun, grab extend reach. another flat +5. 10ft reach from feats, doubled for reach weapon, 20 feet of room to work with.

[JaronK]

IIRC that Kobold needed a lot of tricks to make work. It's found here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132294

Even for a basic thing, consider a Titan bloodline. This lets you wield a Gargantuan Warhammer regardless of your size.

JaronK

[Ravens_cry]

Nope. Tiny creature has a natural reach of zero. Reach weapon doubles your natural reach. 2 times zero = zero.

Whip dagger might work better (15' reach), depending on how your DM converts the weapon to 3.5 rules, but watch out for AoOs.

Damn, too bad. Personally I would rule otherwise, otherwise reach weapons are useless for Tiny creatures, but RAW is RAW.

[Gotterdammerung]

Theres a spell in the spell compendium that does damage for every size category the opponent is larger than you.

Fell the greatest Foe
Assassin 2, ranger 2, cleric 2 paladin 2
Touch spell
1round/level
Harmless

melee attacks deal 1d6 extra dmg for every size category larger than the subject.

There is a feat somewhere that lets you be treated as 1 size smaller for your race. But I can find it.
If you find it a diminutive jermlaine would do 3d6 extra to medium creatures. 7d6 more to colossal with this spell.


The feat's you have already listed are real great. Especially confound the big folk and underfoot combat.

Giantbane is flavorful but should be one of the last ones you pick up.

Elusive target plays in real well with confound the big folk/underfoot combat.


Swarm fighting is really wonderful if you plan on doing this tiny or diminutive theme as a party. Or if it is a party of enemies. but if you are doing it solo then it is pretty worthless.

IF you are playing 3.X (allowing 3.0 material in a 3.5 setting)
there is a WONDERFUL feat in Song and silence. It is called EXPERT TACTICIAN. And it plays PERFECTLY into this kind of build. It basically gives you a free attack roll ANYTIME an enemy in melee reach is denied his dex to AC against your attack for ANY reason. You can only do 1 a turn but still it is a free attack roll at your highest bab for no penalty or action cost.

The 0 reach thing isn't a huge deal. It just means you have to enter the persons square to threaten them. Your incredible hide and movesilently modifier's usually make up for this deficit. You can usually casually waltz into an enemies square. And a lot of your feats actually work better when you are in someone elses square.


I agree with the ToB comment. The wording on many maneuvers is very kind to little folk.


There is also this HOMEBREW prestige class for halfings. If you felt like playing a wizard or a gish who uses his size to his advantage.
It is called the "minute (pronounced- my newt) magi"

You can enter it at 4th and complete it at 13th. It fits really well into a spellthief1/wiz3/ minute magi1/ unseen seer2/ minute magi 9/ unseen seer4 or whatever you like best 4 (with master spell thief for sure and possibly practiced spellcaster to offset unseen seer's "divination spell power" caster level penalty) type of build.
http://www.reality.net/dnd/minute_magi.pdf


This homebrew PrC is also one of the few ways to get a "fine" sized character. Reduce (Su) is a supernatural version of reduce person, with no size limit and no duration. It takes a standard to change size. But it lasts til you decide to take a standard to cancel it. you can use it once per/ minute magi lvl.



P.S. Make sure your DM is not using "size based death by massive damage" alternate rules. It is a sucky dumb dumb alternate rule that punishes the small of stature. Fine creatures have to make the DC15 death by massive damage fort save every time they take 10 or more hit points in damage.:smallfurious:

20 points for diminutive
30 points for tiny
40 points for small

Stupid dum dum rule ><!

[JaronK]

Damn, too bad. Personally I would rule otherwise, otherwise reach weapons are useless for Tiny creatures, but RAW is RAW.

According to the Official Rules FAQ, Tiny creatures with Reach get 5' reach (like a medium or small creature has).

JaronK

[Ravens_cry]

According to the Official Rules FAQ, Tiny creatures with Reach get 5' reach (like a medium or small creature has).

JaronK
That's comforting. FAQ may not be RAW, but it can give an idea for RAI.