Ways to get Monk Unarmed Strike Progression without Monk-Like Classes {3.P}

[Tokuhara]

Title says it all. In 3.5 or PF, how can you get monk's unarmed strike without being monk, unarmed swordsage, or battledancer. And no "size increase" stuff, at least not yet. The reason for the restrictions are that I want more/less a brutal dwarf battlerager who throws on a pair of brass knuckles, spiked boots, and no shirt, screaming dwarven obsenities as the enemies suffer from a "Code Brown" and run like hell.

[Novawurmson]

Superior Unarmed Strike (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2844-superior-unarmed-strike.html)?

[Waker]

Superior Unarmed Strike from ToB I believe does what you want. Can't recall the requirements, but it counts you as a monk of four levels lower for strike damage.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Superior Unarmed Strike from ToB I believe does what you want. Can't recall the requirements, but it counts you as a monk of four levels lower for strike damage.

No. You gain a damage progression as if you were a monk one size smaller, but it doesn't count as monk levels.

[Tokuhara]

I was definately considering it. I was also looking for something homebrew (not too crazy) that gives a Barbarian Monk's UAS or something that actually exists.

I have this image in my head of a dwarf in a tavern with a bright red mowhawk and a thick bushy beard smashing some guy in the head with a Hammer Blow, followed by ground & pounding the guy in the kidneys until they come out his mouth whilst frothing at the mouth in a drunken frenzy.

@ JD: It's a monk 5 levels higher IIRC

[darkdragoon]

They don't seem to have made the trip to PU, but Untapped Potential had some unarmed feats-- from what I can recall one was intended for a Monk dip, but the other was somewhat like Superior Unarmed Strike.

[deuxhero]

Monk's Belt does it without monk levels.

I think Pun-Pun can grab the feature.

Oh! Isn't it an EX quality and Factotumable?

[Lateral]

No. You gain a damage progression as if you were a monk one size smaller, but it doesn't count as monk levels.

Basically this, unless you have actual Monk or USS levels. At 3rd level, it's 1d6 instead of 1d4, though, and at 20 it's still only 2d6 as opposed to 2d8. Plus, it doesn't actually say 'one size smaller;' it gives (essentially) the progression of a Small monk, but there's nothing saying that if you're Large you get a modified Medium-size progression.

[Tokuhara]

They don't seem to have made the trip to PU, but Untapped Potential had some unarmed feats-- from what I can recall one was intended for a Monk dip, but the other was somewhat like Superior Unarmed Strike.

My GM heavily enforces the Alignment restrictions of Barbarian and Monk, to the point where he bars Barbarians from multiclassing into monk and vice-versa. I know, there should be no limitations to multiclassing, but because he says the two classes are the two ends of the spectrum (Law-Chaos) that they cannot coexist in a single person.

However, my DM said he adores the thought of a drunken brawler

[Hiro Protagonest]

My GM heavily enforces the Alignment restrictions of Barbarian and Monk, to the point where he bars Barbarians from multiclassing into monk and vice-versa. I know, there should be no limitations to multiclassing, but because he says the two classes are the two ends of the spectrum (Law-Chaos) that they cannot coexist in a single person.

However, my DM said he adores the thought of a drunken brawler

You know what I hate? That Drunken Master requires FoB, yet the fluff says you can enter it as a barbarian. They probably copy-pasted the fluff from its 3.0 source and Did Not Do the Research.

[Tokuhara]

You know what I hate? That Drunken Master requires FoB, yet the fluff says yoy can enter it as a barbarian. They probably copy-pasted the fluff from its 3.0 source and Did Not Do the Research.

I hate that Drunken Master doesn't advance Monk's Unarmed Strike.

Hence why he is allowing homebrew.

I had the idea of changing a Barbarian's weapon proficiency so they may not get any weapons, but in return they get Monk's UAS progression. Would this be balanced?

[gbprime]

Unapproachable East has Shou Disciple, which you can get into during levels 6-10. It takes you unarmed strike from 1d6 to 2d6, which, after 1 more feat is 3d6 by 10th level.

[Tokuhara]

Unapproachable East has Shou Disciple, which you can get into during levels 6-10. It takes you unarmed strike from 1d6 to 2d6, which, after 1 more feat is 3d6 by 10th level.

Could this be made into an Archetype? One that preferably one that combines with Drunken Brute?

[Hirax]

The tashalatora feats works with any psionic class. A straight psion 20 with tashalatora has the unarmed strike AND flurry of a 20th level monk. You could homebrew it to work with something not psionic, perhaps. It's how improved unarmed strike should have worked in the first place, frankly.

[Tokuhara]

The tashalatora feats works with any psionic class. A straight psion 20 with tashalatora has the unarmed strike AND flurry of a 20th level monk. You could homebrew it to work with something not psionic, perhaps. It's how improved unarmed strike should have worked in the first place, frankly.

I agree.

Do I have a consensus: This is a great character concept?

[Lateral]

Do I have a consensus: This is a great character concept?
Aye. Y'know, I built something similar for a PbP a couple months back; the difference is that yours is an angry brawling dwarf. Mine was a punch-happy-drunk guy who chugged vodka and sang bar songs to give his allies boosts in combat while he runs around whacking people with anvils.

Also, he was a bear. I'm so disappointed that the DM disappeared without a word on that one.

[Tokuhara]

Aye. Y'know, I built something similar for a PbP a couple months back; the difference is that yours is an angry brawling dwarf. Mine was a punch-happy-drunk guy who chugged vodka and sang bar songs to give his allies boosts in combat while he runs around whacking people with anvils.

Also, he was a bear. I'm so disappointed that the DM disappeared without a word on that one.

ahh...

I guess the drunken brawler is a novelty, since I have yet to find a usable homebrew that gives Barbarian Monk's UAS as size-appropriate

[Telonius]

Sacred Fist doesn't technically require any Monk levels. With a Monk's Belt, I think you could get up to 14th-level unarmed damage if you take all 10 levels of the class. But you also wouldn't be able to use brass knuckles due to the PrC's "no weapons" restrictions. It does have the nice benefit of not having any specific alignment requirements. As long as you can get the prereq feats (which might be a problem without a couple levels of Fighter) you can take the PrC no matter what. Light armor won't interfere with any of the class abilities.

EDIT: Cleric8/Fighter2/Sacred Fist10 could do, if you really want to go that route. (Stunning Fist does have a BAB +8 requirement, and it's a prereq for Sacred Fist; you'll need to take the 2 Fighter levels last). Weaker than a full Cleric, but if you're going mainly for theme you could do a lot worse.

[deuxhero]

I hate that Drunken Master doesn't advance Monk's Unarmed Strike.

Hence why he is allowing homebrew.

I had the idea of changing a Barbarian's weapon proficiency so they may not get any weapons, but in return they get Monk's UAS progression. Would this be balanced?

No.



It's a siziable nerf as unarmed fighting isn't very good even detached from the Monk compared to a two hander.

[Tokuhara]

No.



It's a siziable nerf as unarmed fighting isn't very good even detached from the Monk compared to a two hander.

That is true, but few things feel more satasfying as beating a monster the DM throws at you with your fists

and I'm not a caster-guy. The party already has 3 full casters, but no melee, so I want to fit that bill. I plan on grabbing Hammerfist to THF Unarmed Strikes

[Bhaakon]

The Pathfinder brawler archetype for fighters gives you an approximation of the monk's UAS via bonus damage. At level 20 it get 1d3+7 base (9 average) on unarmed strikes vs the monk's 2d10 (11 average). If you combine it with some of 3.5 material (like the superior unarmed strike feat), then you'll end up with higher base damage than a vanilla monk. It also gives you a scaling bonus to hit with UAS and "close" weapons (brass knuckles, gauntlets, etc). It also gives you enough bonus feats to replicate the monk's flurry via TWF.

[Hirax]

Does PF's brawler give you as many attacks? Tashalatora grants you the damage and flurry, so you'd get 2 extra attacks at your highest BAB with no penalties. Extra feats could be used on TWF, snap kick, etc.

[Darrin]

Title says it all. In 3.5 or PF, how can you get monk's unarmed strike without being monk, unarmed swordsage, or battledancer.

Fist of the Forest should do it.

As far as dwarves go, obligatory link to Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588).

[Tokuhara]

The Pathfinder brawler archetype for fighters gives you an approximation of the monk's UAS via bonus damage. At level 20 it get 1d3+7 base (9 average) on unarmed strikes vs the monk's 2d10 (11 average). If you combine it with some of 3.5 material (like the superior unarmed strike feat), then you'll end up with higher base damage than a vanilla monk. It also gives you a scaling bonus to hit with UAS and "close" weapons (brass knuckles, gauntlets, etc). It also gives you enough bonus feats to replicate the monk's flurry via TWF.

Doesn't IUAS up your dice to monk-sized?

[Coidzor]

Basically this, unless you have actual Monk or USS levels. At 3rd level, it's 1d6 instead of 1d4, though, and at 20 it's still only 2d6 as opposed to 2d8. Plus, it doesn't actually say 'one size smaller;' it gives (essentially) the progression of a Small monk, but there's nothing saying that if you're Large you get a modified Medium-size progression.

It basically depends upon whether you interpret it as giving that flat or taking it as an example of what a medium character gets and modifying it according to the character's actual size, really.


Doesn't IUAS up your dice to monk-sized?

PF IUAS (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-unarmed-strike-combat---final)? 3.X doesn't and this one I linked to doesn't either.

[Bhaakon]

Does PF's brawler give you as many attacks? Tashalatora grants you the damage and flurry, so you'd get 2 extra attacks at your highest BAB with no penalties. Extra feats could be used on TWF, snap kick, etc.

A level 20 brawler w/ the full TWF line (5 feats out of his 20 total) is hitting for 1d3+7, has attack bonuses of 23/23/18/18/13/13/8 on a full attack, and gets 1d10 rend damage if both hands hit. A lvl 20 PF monk's flurry is hitting for 2d10 at 18/18/13/13/8/8/3 with no rend (technically a monk could take two-weapon rend, but he'd get absolutely nothing out of the prerequisites and has fewer feats to burn).

[Tokuhara]

Some excellent points made on Monk vs Unarmed Fighter. The thing is that while UA fighter deals less damage on average than a monk, but it is more consistant.

Edit: Hang on! Weird idea: Giving monk spellcasting and a Full BAB.

I just read the Runemaster classes from WoW d20. It acts like a monk and inscribes "spells" onto their body or objects. Perhaps they could get something similar to CA's Warlock, with a different fluff. And since they would be more/less a gish-y class they really need a full BAB. Just gotta think what to drop on Monk for the Runecasting

[darkdragoon]

My GM heavily enforces the Alignment restrictions of Barbarian and Monk, to the point where he bars Barbarians from multiclassing into monk and vice-versa. I know, there should be no limitations to multiclassing, but because he says the two classes are the two ends of the spectrum (Law-Chaos) that they cannot coexist in a single person.

However, my DM said he adores the thought of a drunken brawler

To clarify:

One is like Practiced Spellcaster for Monk progression, the other is "as if you were a Monk -4 levels, or Monk levels +other class"

[Tokuhara]

To clarify:

One is like Practiced Spellcaster for Monk progression, the other is "as if you were a Monk -4 levels, or Monk levels +other class"

Right.

And I finally knuckled down and decided to play a monk. Thank you all for coming and posting on this thread. With your help, my Chidori-Wielding Panda Monk may soon become a reality