Coffee/soda addiction

[Choco]

Just figured I would start a discussion on the matter cause I have been noticing it more and more among my friends/coworkers and sometimes it goes above the point of minor annoyance.

Basically, I know plenty of people that flat-out CANT FUNCTION unless they practically have a coffee/soda IV attached to them.

Some of my coworkers go through 10+ cups of coffee a day (and that is just the WORK day, not even counting the 3+ they have before coming in and that many again after work, by their own confession). One time the office was out of coffee for 2 weeks, and half the people became completely useless. I witnessed in real life what often comes up in comics regarding this topic: A bunch of drowsy people that seemed to have suddenly become narcoleptic. The most hardcore addicts brought their own, because it is literally a need for them.

By the same token one of my friends needs to constantly be drinking soda and/or energy drinks just to stay awake. He goes through 12-packs like you wouldn't believe. I am not kidding, if he has to go even an hour without a soda, he is constantly whining about the headache and falling asleep at the drop of a hat.

The addicts I know are WAY worse than smokers too. The smokers get a bit irritable and twitchy but they can still keep functioning at least. The coffee/soda addicts on the other hand get EXTREMELY irritable/unpleasant, lose all attention span, whine about everything, all on top of being useless. I know there are different levels of addiction and different people respond in different ways, but as a whole that is what I have noticed.

Basically I just view the whole situation as downright sad. I have dealt with alcoholics and drug addicts who would put the coffee/soda addicts to shame when it comes to going cold turkey.

P.S. I do know how it is, I used to drink AT LEAST one 6-pack of soda a day, usually closer to 12. I stopped once I realized that I couldn't function without it, and damn am I happy I made that choice. These days I seem to have WAY more energy without having to rely on coffee/soda then I did even back when I was drinking that stuff constantly. It is definitely awesome being able to stay up all night without any "help" while my much younger friend struggles to be awake over 6 hours straight if he isn't constantly consuming soda...

[arguskos]

I seem to have found a lovely sweet spot, where I think I am *technically* addicted to soda, but not to that degree (ie. I function at 150% with soda, but at 100% without it, it's a booster not a requirement to functioning). I do get headaches and am slightly more irritable than normal when I go without for more than a day or two, but not so badly I can't function or be useful.

Never understood how other people really have that issue. Then again, I've taken great care to not become that level of addicted to anything ever, so perhaps I'm just biased. *shrug*

[Haruki-kun]

Related. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeinism#Tolerance_and_withdrawal) I quit drinking coffee during the summer and cleared myself up pretty quick. Was a tough week, lots of headaches.*

I think a relevant point here is people's view towards it: A caffeine addiction is not as socially frowned upon as alcoholism. Which is understandable: not many people have destroyed their lives due to a caffeine addiction, whereas alcoholism has been known to tear families apart.

That aside... I'm OK with coffee, but drinking a 6-pack of soda in one day every day sounds like a sure way to get diabetes.

*EDIT: Oh, but I started drinking coffee again at the beginning of the semester. I just quit back then because I didn't really need it. Yay, college.

[The_Admiral]

Soda is good and I could drink 1.5 liters a day but I don't drink it much at most once a week and coffee, I drink it when I need it aka when I am overdue for homework or a project.

[valadil]

I used to avoid caffeine addiction. I was allowed one beverage a day and only on weekdays. Then my wife had a baby and I've been drinking coffee non-stop. For the first couple weeks I had a coffee an hour. At one point I drank a half gallon of coffee in one sitting, only stopping when I had chest pains. FWIW the baby is sleeping just fine now, but I haven't stomped the addiction.

[Choco]

That aside... I'm OK with coffee, but drinking a 6-pack of soda in one day every day sounds like a sure way to get diabetes.

Yeah, I don't think it is a coincidence that diabetes cases have been skyrocketing in recent years, as sugar consumption has gone up and physical activity has gone down.

[Spiryt]

I drink quite a lot of coffee now, it's not really that tasty, but somehow relaxing....

I drink it sugar free just to keep it troo, but I think I should give it up indeed, doesn't really do anything good to me, and is rather expensive. :smalltongue:

[Yora]

I have lots of friends with caffein addiction at university. Many of them are also smokers.

It's quite crazy. They don't drink coffee to get awake, they drink it to fight the withdrawal symptoms. Which only makes the addiction worse.
Also, I think that at least for students in the early 20s, coffee is somethig cool and sophisticated, like cigarets have once been. Now this has changed a lot to the point that many people I know wont even smoke in their own homes when they have guests. There seems to be much higher awareness that it annoys other people, which makes the whole thing slightly shameful. But with coffee you are safe and since there is no immediate health damage (though drinking liters of that stuff for years can't be healthy), there's no apparent downside to affein addiction, except that you drink lots of coffee.

I also do drink a lot of soda, but it's because I like it, not because I need it. If I have to live on juice and milk for a week, I don't get any terrible craving.

Just like beer, wine, and cigarets, I never started with coffee. If I have to suffer through a phase of getting used to the awful taste to be able to consume something that I didn't need before, just doesn't seem comprehensible to me. Except group pressure.

[Con_Brio1993]

It isn't the soda/coffee as much as the caffeine methinks.

[TheCountAlucard]

I don't drink coffee. Don't like the taste. :smallyuk:

I was going to say that I'm not addicted to soda, but I just realized I've drunk four of them in the course of reading this thread. :smalleek:

To clarify: I don't buy soda. I often go days or even weeks without touching the stuff... but if I'm at a school event or somesuch with free refreshments, I will drink the hell out of them.

[Knaight]

And its not even the caffeine as much as it is the need for something due to sleep deprivation. For instance, right now I basically have no coffee, and only a little caffeinated tea, because I can actually get enough sleep (I naturally sleep about 7 hours a day). Last year though, coffee was basically necessary, as 3 hours of sleep a day is not enough to function well with nothing, and I was simply that busy. Granted, it was one cup a day, but I am also still fairly young.

[Whiffet]

I don't think there's a problem if you have a cup of coffee every day, or if you happen to have a lot going on so you need extra coffee to get it all done. Students who have a ton to accomplish and are short on sleep need caffeine sometimes. What you describe, however, is definitely not good. :smalleek:

Actually, I can't stand the taste of coffee. I've heard from family and friends that it's an acquired taste. I think that means, "Oh, after you've had it enough times in a short period to be addicted to the caffeine, you'll be used to the taste."

As for soda and energy drinks, I think having one a day is way too often. I love soda, but that's just too much sugar in one setting with no redeeming values. Sure, some other drinks have as much sugar, but at least chocolate milk and juice offer calcium and vitamins and such.

[The_Admiral]

I don't drink coffee. Don't like the taste. :smallyuk:

I was going to say that I'm not addicted to soda, but I just realized I've drunk four of them in the course of reading this thread. :smalleek:

To clarify: I don't buy soda. I often go days or even weeks without touching the stuff... but if I'm at a school event or somesuch with free refreshments, I will drink the hell out of them.

You sound like a true Malaysian. If it's free we take as much of it as possible. :smallbiggrin:

[Goosefeather]

I'll just leave this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjmiap-uXug&feature=related) here...

[Dr.Epic]

I'm not addicted to soda or coffee. All I drink is milk.

[TheCountAlucard]

You sound like a true Malaysian. If it's free we take as much of it as possible. :smallbiggrin:See, the college has plenty of events around campus that offer free lunches. :smalltongue:

I estimate that I eat four to five free meals a week. :smallamused:

[factotum]

Used to drink a lot of coffee, but it was having unpleasant effects on my kidneys so I had to stop. I still drink a can or two of fizzy a day, though, which is a habit I'd like to kick...

[Capt. Ido Nos]

I didn't used to drink that much soda, maybe one at most. I didn't EVER drink coffee, couldn't stand the taste. Then a hellish senior year of a compsci degree happened, in close proximity to the discovery of the mocha as a caffeinated hit chocolate variant, followed closely by the acquisition of a job which includes free unlimited soda as a perk, and now I consume way too much caffeine. I'm skirting the line between Need and Want,and its hard to tell from which side the skirting is happening, haha.

That said, so long as I can get enough sleep, kicking the caffeine habit is not so bad. Caffeine stays in your body for roughly 11 days, so says some science I once read. If I can hold out for that long, I'm usually in the clear for a while. I sleep so much better to when that happens.

[Lord Raziere]

I found that getting gourmet soda helps break the soda addiction. cause its so tasty and only comes in six pack bottles, that you want to stretch out the tastiness as much as possible, meaning when I have soda now, I only drink one a day, because I can only drink one soda bottle a day for maximum length of tastiness.

and now I can function fine without it. I mostly drink chocolate milk now.

[H Birchgrove]

I'm not addicted to soda or coffee. All I drink is milk.

Dr Epic is actually The Phantom. When in town, he wears a trench coat and sun glasses and calls himself Mr Walker. No one who has seen his true face has survived. :eek:

[SiuiS]

Just figured I would start a discussion on the matter cause I have been noticing it more and more among my friends/coworkers and sometimes it goes above the point of minor annoyance.

Basically, I know plenty of people that flat-out CANT FUNCTION unless they practically have a coffee/soda IV attached to them.

Some of my coworkers go through 10+ cups of coffee a day (and that is just the WORK day, not even counting the 3+ they have before coming in and that many again after work, by their own confession). One time the office was out of coffee for 2 weeks, and half the people became completely useless. I witnessed in real life what often comes up in comics regarding this topic: A bunch of drowsy people that seemed to have suddenly become narcoleptic. The most hardcore addicts brought their own, because it is literally a need for them.

By the same token one of my friends needs to constantly be drinking soda and/or energy drinks just to stay awake. He goes through 12-packs like you wouldn't believe. I am not kidding, if he has to go even an hour without a soda, he is constantly whining about the headache and falling asleep at the drop of a hat.

The addicts I know are WAY worse than smokers too. The smokers get a bit irritable and twitchy but they can still keep functioning at least. The coffee/soda addicts on the other hand get EXTREMELY irritable/unpleasant, lose all attention span, whine about everything, all on top of being useless. I know there are different levels of addiction and different people respond in different ways, but as a whole that is what I have noticed.

Basically I just view the whole situation as downright sad. I have dealt with alcoholics and drug addicts who would put the coffee/soda addicts to shame when it comes to going cold turkey.

P.S. I do know how it is, I used to drink AT LEAST one 6-pack of soda a day, usually closer to 12. I stopped once I realized that I couldn't function without it, and damn am I happy I made that choice. These days I seem to have WAY more energy without having to rely on coffee/soda then I did even back when I was drinking that stuff constantly. It is definitely awesome being able to stay up all night without any "help" while my much younger friend struggles to be awake over 6 hours straight if he isn't constantly consuming soda...

believe it or not, it may not be worth it for them to kick the habit.
I quit caffeine cold turkey. I do not exaggerate when I say it was the most painful experience of my life. It's a matter of cutting your losses.

But yes, caffeine is an insidious drug. It induces symptoms which can only be cured by more caffeine. And most folks don't realize it. I've been yelled at for tellin people their sleep problems were caused by caffeine. The emotional effects take longerthan chemical to clear up; even on decaf, I enjoy a meditative sipping of a hot savory beverage when I wake up. It's a personal ritual that makes me get up so I don't miss It. Otherwise I'll stay in bed. It's a non-addict choice.

As for addiction, I have a simple rubric; if adding [substance] makes my day better, I'm fine. Everypony indulges. If not having [substance] ruins your day, you have a monkey on your back. When I get to thesecond point, I wean myself.

Talk to your friends about decaf. The usual response is "what's the point?" the answer is "I like coffee, not getting high." a lot of folks I know like having a constant drink on hand, and coffee has a pleasing texture, especially withvarying amounts of sugar and milk - my coffee has enough milk to supply me a 1,200 calorie diet daily. If there is enough decaf to cut the brew, you can help them wean. There is also a product, Teeccino (http://www.teeccino.com/), that is a flavorful coffee substitute. Not as textured though...

But caffeine withdrawal causes anxiety, depression, tension, irritability, cramps, stress, and oner-sensitivity to pain responses in the body. It is often so much easier to just let them be addicted than go through the month long process of weaning and withdrawal (and yes, Ido, even using your cut down method I went through withdrawal). I like the Capt's idea of a detox every two months or so, work yourself down to a cup of decaf.
Hm. I should start that again come december.

[Orzel]

Coffee and soda? Bah.

I used to be hooked on Orange Juice.
Back in High school, I got 4 gallons of the stuff for my birthday. We had an OJ party in... some class. I don't remember which one it was so awesome.

Now I am on a strict juice routine of multiple fruits.

[thubby]

*surreptitiously looks at pepsi can pyramid on corner of desk*
in my defense, college+job.

unfortunately, going off the stuff is several days worth of blindingly painful migraines. so ya.

[Coidzor]

I weaned myself in a multi-step process, the first being where my girlfriend at the time took to bribing me with increased intimacy in exchange for limiting myself to a single glass of soda with dinner, then I started drinking powerade instead, then when things crashed and burned horribly with her I moved across country and lived with a friend and his father who didn't buy soda, they just bought seltzer water and syrup, and infrequently at that, so the syrup had to last, which discouraged being too liberal with it.

Then I took to stocking up on lemonade drink mix when I wasn't content to just drink the water. But I'd never really gotten to the point of noticing a physical addiction (no real withdrawal, no caffeine headaches) so much as a psychological, almost pavlovian need to seek out soda at regular intervals without thinking about it.

[Lady Moreta]

Actually, I can't stand the taste of coffee. I've heard from family and friends that it's an acquired taste. I think that means, "Oh, after you've had it enough times in a short period to be addicted to the caffeine, you'll be used to the taste."

My sister has that attitude towards the 'V' energy drink. She's periodically tried to ween herself off it and has never managed to beat the addiction completely. Probably not helped by the fact that she does happen to like the taste, I can't stand it, and my commenting on that fact was what led to the 'it's an acquired taste' conversation between us. In the end, she still drinks it, but she's careful not to drink too much.


and now I can function fine without it. I mostly drink chocolate milk now.

Great. Now I want chocolate milk. Thanks heaps :smalltongue:


As for addiction, I have a simple rubric; if adding [substance] makes my day better, I'm fine. Everypony indulges. If not having [substance] ruins your day, you have a monkey on your back. When I get to thesecond point, I wean myself.

I like this... I think this is the way I look at things as well, I just haven't actually put it into words.

I got addicted to caffiene through drinking tea at uni. I was having four or five cups a day... I can't remember the reason I decided to cut back, in actual fact, I have a sneaking suspicion the migraine-like headaches started before I decided to wean myself. They'd happen if I simply waited too long before my next cup of tea... the only way to get rid of the headaches was to simply lie down and sleep. I mentioned it to my med-student friend and she pointed out that tea has just as much caffiene in it as coffee and well yeah... at that point I weaned myself off it. It took about a week as I recall and it was not pleasant. I've never had headaches as bad as those or been so irritable in my life. I got no work done that week and I'm sure I was unpleasant to be around.

I still drink tea, and I'm probably technically still addicted to caffiene, in that if for some reason I miss my cup in the morning, then by 10-11am I will be quite grouchy. But I'm very careful how much I drink and I'm not allowed to have any more than two cups a day (which rule I do sometimes break, but not often). I don't ever want to be in that position again, so I be very careful. I did try decaf tea, but it tastes like dirt.

I look at it the way SiuiS described - adding a cup or two of tea makes my day better... but if I miss it, I might get grouchy, but it doesn't completely ruin my day and I can function without drinking tea, so it's not something that concerns me. Of course, I also drink a lot of water- roughly 1.5L a day since I'm quite prone to dehydration, I've noticed it's a lot easier not to drink tea when I make sure I drink enough water. And I tend to get dehydration headaches at the drop of a hat, so making sure I drink enough water is pretty easy.

[Zevox]

...huh. Well, I drink more soda than I should, no doubts there, but at least this has made me pretty certain I'm still nowhere near addict level. My house can go through more than a 2-liter bottle a day at times, with me and my brother the main reasons why, but I don't get any problems when we run out. I just drink something like koolaid, grape juice, chocolate milk, or even just water for a few days until we get more.

Zevox

[Anarion]

I don't drink coffee at all, but I do drink tea semi-frequently. Not an addict though.

One piece of advise I will give, having observed (and presently observing) several friends try to quit off of caffeine and/or sugar. Don't do both at the same time. If you're used to a lot of caffeine and sugar, stopping one will probably make you crave the other. Stopping both at the same time will make you a lot more tired and you'll just feel terrible. I would suggest starting by switching to less coffee (or other caffeinated drink) per day, then eventually to decaf, then start weaning yourself off the sugar.

[Brazen Shield]

I wouldn't consider myself addicted to any caffeinated substance (or, any substance really). I have been lucky enough to be blessed with tasebuds that HATE both coffee and soda. I like minty tea, which is decaf.

I could very well screw myself over too: I work at Starbucks, where the coffee is free.

However! I do have to deal EVERY. DAY. With a coffee addict. I get home from my early morning job to find my live-in boyfriend still in bed, with no way in any of the worlds to get him out of bed except to put a cup of coffee near him. And even then he might not have enough energy to get up to drink it! After he drinks his cup it still takes forever for him to be functional: I've even dealt with his withdrawal when he decided to try and quit: a 4-day migraine. So, OP, I know your pain.

This being said, I remember a study (that I, of course, can't find) that proved caffeinated co-workers work better than uncaffeinated co-workers: people who start drinking coffee perform better at their jobs than people who NEVER drank coffee. I guess the addiction it's just the price we pay for higher productivity.

[Feytalist]

There's a Cracked article (http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-scientific-ways-coffee-gives-you-super-powers/) that details the ways how caffeine benefits you. Now, we know better than to believe everything that Cracked posts, but it still is quite interesting.

I drink about 3-4 cups of strong coffee a day (only my own though, I'm a bit of a coffee snob, heh). I admit that I get more tired than normal if I don't have at least one cup per day, and I have been known to get mild headaches after long periods without coffee. But I'm not quite ready to quit yet, heh.

I think that when you drink coffee or soda almost exclusively, it might become a problem. Drinking water, herbal tea or whatever else for thirst is obviously much better than just coffee, all the time.

[Zeb The Troll]

I'm just going to leave these here.

http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/health/05brod.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coffee-and-health/AN01354

tl;dr - Coffee is good for you, and in larger doses than you might think. Don't drink it if you don't want to, but there's no need to demonize it to your acuaintances just because you prefer not to have any.

[Dr.Epic]

Dr Epic is actually The Phantom. When in town, he wears a trench coat and sun glasses and calls himself Mr Walker. No one who has seen his true face has survived. :eek:

Obscure cultural references are obscure. And redundant statements are redundant. And I do not get the reference.

[llamamushroom]

Obscure cultural references are obscure. And redundant statements are redundant. And I do not get the reference.

Reference is to The Phantom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom), whose beverage of choice (according to TVTropes) is milk (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePhantom).

But you're right - you don't get much more obscure than 75-year-old continuously-running newspaper comics. :smalltongue:

In an effort to be on-topic, I think I've developed a tea addiction now. I've got a half-litre tea bottle that I refill maybe 3 times a day, and it's beginning to show. Of course, at the moment it's either tea or gastroenteritis (even the locals don't drink the water here...), and there are cisterns every-freaking-where. Then again, it's not so bad, as it's green tea (often diluted with chrysanthemum because that stuff is awesome), which has less caffeine than black tea, and I think I use, far too, many, commas.

[Reprimand]

I'm addicted to monster, The energy drink, it's sooooooo unhealthy but when your shoveling snow for like 24 hours while working a crappy job at an appartment complex... It really keeps you going. Redbull too.

The warning labels are kind of scary, like 5 of those things can give you a heart attack, no joke.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Every so often I come off caffene (I'm a heavy tea drinker).

The odd thing is that after withdrawal finishes (and if I time it right I can be asleep for the worst of the symptoms) it doesn't seem to make much difference...

...Except that I sleep less. Better, but less.

[Winter_Wolf]

I'm guessing I'm one of those people the wiki mentions as not having the problem with getting to sleep when I have caffeine in my system. Well, caffeine from coffee, anyway. Tea still keeps me up at night.

I'm not sure how addicted I am, since I still drink coffee for flavor over energy, since apparently I just don't get that wonderful caffeine spike people claim it gives. I do get headaches, but I expect that's more because I neglect to drink water when I drink coffee and get dehydrated.

This year I find that all coffee I drink straight has this horrible sour note, and the only way I've found to negate that is with flavored cream.

[arguskos]

I'm addicted to monster, The energy drink, it's sooooooo unhealthy but when your shoveling snow for like 24 hours while working a crappy job at an appartment complex... It really keeps you going. Redbull too.

The warning labels are kind of scary, like 5 of those things can give you a heart attack, no joke.
I know a guy who can acquire the original formula 4loko's still, and drinks them for energy when he needs it. Talk about a dangerous drink. :smalleek:

[Yora]

Caffein doesn't dehydrate. It only speeds up the digestive activities related to water, but does not increase the water loss from cells or blood. Coffee only passes through the body quicker than other drinks but does not cause you too lose more excess water than normal.

[Winter_Wolf]

If you referring to my statement, Yora, I am aware of the properties of caffeine. What I said is that instead of drinking water, I drink coffee. As a result, my overall consumption of water/other assorted fluids is severly lessened, leading to dehydration.

If you weren't referring to my statement, well never mind then. I totally tl;dr'd most of the thread. :smalltongue:

[Yora]

No, and considering that, it's true. It's not the greatest thing to raise your bod water level.

[Trog]

O: MY PEOPLE! *hugs all*

Okay so I am addicted to caffeine and have been ever since I was young.

I have asthma, see, and that means that I take in less oxygen than I optimally should ( >> ... which might explain some things ) so, apparently, the more my heart rate stays up the better for me overall because my body functions at a higher rate increasing my heart rate and breathing and, apparently helping my asthma...

or so my pediatrician thought back in the 70's. He actually instructed my mother to let me drink soda to help.

I became addicted to caffeine... UNDER DOCTOR'S ORDERS! O:

True story.

Anyway I love coffee but I don't have it as often as I have soda, currently. Specifically Diet Mt. Dew. I go through a case a week.

BUT I do have a bag of pure Hawaiian Kona on my counter downstairs all waiting to be ground up and French-pressed into black steamy goodness.

Huzzah for birthday coffee! http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/smiley_coffee.gif

[Traab]

I spent years drinking nothing but soda and tea, and lots of it. Id go through a 12 pack every couple days at best. When I finally decided to start treating myself better I went cold turkey and drank nothing but water. Good news is I lost 20 pounds just from flushing that crap out of my system, (No soda was my only change, no diet or exercise) Bad news was, I spent the next week MISERABLE with a low to moderate level headache all the time as my body tried to wean itself off of caffeine. Now ive found a nice balance, i drink a couple water bottles a day and have maybe a can or two of soda depending on my mood. Enough so I can enjoy some sweet tasting drinks, but not enough where if I skip soda for a day or two I get headaches again.

[Karoht]

Story Time!

A friend and I used to go to Perkins pretty regularly. The staff were awesome and would replace the carafes of coffee very regularly. We'd sit there, drink up, and get business done (we ran event management for 2 companies, loads of corporate political BS every day) or make plans for later on down the road.
We would drink so much coffee, the next day's effects could only be called the Coffee Hangover.


Now?
I cut myself off at 2 cups a day, I only drink soda when I'm out at restaurants, so maybe twice a week. I hadn't thought of using chocolate milk to replace coffee though. I'll give that a go for a week, see how that works.

[llamamushroom]

Caffein doesn't dehydrate. It only speeds up the digestive activities related to water, but does not increase the water loss from cells or blood. Coffee only passes through the body quicker than other drinks but does not cause you too lose more excess water than normal.

While it does not cause you to lose excess water, it does (as you point out) change how your body deals with fluids. Instead of retaining them and using what fluid you have to rehydrate, it (almost) all gets passed out through the kidneys. I'd say that means it effectively dehydrates you, because it flushes out what you'd use to keep yourself topped up, such as the water in your food. You need to drink a lot more water while on a high-caffeine diet to maintain the same level of hydration as someone on a low-caffeine diet.

As a side note - in addition to treating withdrawal migraines, caffeine can also treat regular migraines and period pain.

Doctors' kids - we pick stuff up by osmosis.

[Zeb The Troll]

While it does not cause you to lose excess water, it does (as you point out) change how your body deals with fluids. Instead of retaining them and using what fluid you have to rehydrate, it (almost) all gets passed out through the kidneys. I'd say that means it effectively dehydrates you, because it flushes out what you'd use to keep yourself topped up, such as the water in your food. You need to drink a lot more water while on a high-caffeine diet to maintain the same level of hydration as someone on a low-caffeine diet.This is not universally accepted as truth.


Recreational enthusiasts and athletes often are advised to abstain from consuming caffeinated beverages (CB). The dual purposes of this review are to (a) critique controlled investigations regarding the effects of caffeine on dehydration and exercise performance, and (b) ascertain whether abstaining from CB is scientifically and physiologically justifiable. The literature indicates that caffeine consumption stimulates a mild diuresis similar to water, but there is no evidence of a fluid-electrolyte imbalance that is detrimental to exercise performance or health. Investigations comparing caffeine (100-680 mg) to water or placebo seldom found a statistical difference in urine volume. In the 10 studies reviewed, consumption of a CB resulted in 0-84% retention of the initial volume ingested, whereas consumption of water resulted in 0-81% retention. Further, tolerance to caffeine reduces the likelihood that a detrimental fluid-electrolyte imbalance will occur. The scientific literature suggests that athletes and recreational enthusiasts will not incur detrimental fluid-electrolyte imbalances if they consume CB in moderation and eat a typical U.S. diet. Sedentary members of the general public should be a less risk than athletes because their fluid losses via sweating are smaller.

Source - http://www.mendeley.com/research/caffeine-body-fluidelectrolyte-balance-and-exercise-performance-1/

[Kneenibble]

Soda? - how you people put that **** in your bodies with any regularity I'll never understand.

I save coffee for rare occasions because I love the buzz, and I don't want to lose that feeling from regular use. I also sincerely love the taste, though -- and to be honest, most people who say they dislike the taste of coffee have never actually had it fresh and properly prepared. Bad coffee (of which there is a disturbing abundance in this world) does, indeed, taste like warm ordure.

[Karoht]

Soda? - how you people put that **** in your bodies with any regularity I'll never understand.

I save coffee for rare occasions because I love the buzz, and I don't want to lose that feeling from regular use. I also sincerely love the taste, though -- and to be honest, most people who say they dislike the taste of coffee have never actually had it fresh and properly prepared. Bad coffee (of which there is a disturbing abundance in this world) does, indeed, taste like warm ordure.

I went to Dunkin Donuts on my trip to the states.
The stuff that passes for coffee these days... *sadface*

[Spiryt]

Soda? - how you people put that **** in your bodies with any regularity I'll never understand.

I save coffee for rare occasions because I love the buzz, and I don't want to lose that feeling from regular use. I also sincerely love the taste, though -- and to be honest, most people who say they dislike the taste of coffee have never actually had it fresh and properly prepared. Bad coffee (of which there is a disturbing abundance in this world) does, indeed, taste like warm ordure.

I guess it's tasty, and sugary craving is hard to combat.

Whenever I have bottle of this stuff:

http://www.spizarnieponiatowskich.pl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/o/tonik_kinlez_plastik.jpg

available, I usually down it pretty quickly, because I like the quinine taste quite a lot.

From that reason, I pretty much never buy it too, otherwise I would drink way too much of it. :smalltongue:

[TheThan]

I’ve basically weaned myself off if soda. I still drink the stuff, but not that much anymore. It took two weeks for the headaches to go away and I still have a craving every now and then. But I think I’m healthier for it. cola is still my biggest weakness when it comes to eating healthy though.

My dad cut out almost all processed sugar (cola etc), he’s lost like 50lbs, I’ve unfortunately haven’t seen any weight loss myself, Its probably a metabolism thing though.

[Starwulf]

I also sincerely love the taste, though -- and to be honest, most people who say they dislike the taste of coffee have never actually had it fresh and properly prepared. Bad coffee (of which there is a disturbing abundance in this world) does, indeed, taste like warm ordure.

I'm glad you said "most", because otherwise, a blanket statement never works out well. I was up in Canada back in 2005 visiting a buddy of mine whose fiancee(at the time) was a coffee lover, and she regularly got freshly ground coffee of all different types and flavors, and made me try a cup since I stated I hated coffee. Yeah, the results were no different from normal, I still couldn't stand the taste. Coffee is just...bleck. Give me a cappuccino any day of the week ^^ French Vanilla only though :)

[Greenish]

Obscure cultural references are obscure. And redundant statements are redundant. And I do not get the reference.An old jungle saying: "The Phantom is as obscure as Popey the Sailor". :smallamused:


I don't drink coffee at all, and soda only rarely, but I do drink about six litres of tea a day. Gave up using honey with it when my teeth started to suffer from constant influx of sugars.

[Arminius]

I made an interesting discovery about a month ago. You can just buy pure caffeine powder off Amazon.:smallbiggrin: The catch is you need to get a scale that works in mg, or you might overdose, but other than that it is pretty awesome. You can make anything caffeinated. This has opened up a number of fun possibilities, since I don't like the cost and sugar involved in getting soda. I also don't like the taste of regular coffee, and the fancy coffeee that tastes nice is too expensive.

[Karoht]

Caffeinated soap is actually rather decent. But get it from a good source. The Body Shop has one with Guarana in it, and it has been around for a while so it likely isn't dangerous when used properly.
We took some with us when we flew down to Florida. Long flight and a very long and boring layover half way there. Not a decent coffee shop around, that stuff was incredibly handy.

[llamamushroom]

Caffeinated soap is actually rather decent. But get it from a good source. The Body Shop has one with Guarana in it, and it has been around for a while so it likely isn't dangerous when used properly.
We took some with us when we flew down to Florida. Long flight and a very long and boring layover half way there. Not a decent coffee shop around, that stuff was incredibly handy.

I think, perhaps, you are using a definition of soap of which I am unaware...


This is not universally accepted as truth.

Data

Ah, but I have anecdotal evidence in support of my claims! That's infinitely superior to your fancy-pants "sources" and "studies". :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, thanks for pointing that out to me. I guess, those times I drink a lot of caffeine, I also drink a lot, full stop. It goes a long way to explaining the difference, instead of the standard "diuretic" explanation. I shall have to ask the old mater when next I call.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I have an addiction to Mountain Dew which I blame entirely on another Playgrounder. I started drinking it when visiting him, discovered I liked it, and now if I don't have a can, I start developing a headache by noon.

[Mathis]

Regular coffee drinker here. I have about 7-10 cups on a busy day, 2-4 if I'm studying at home. Now, I live in a country were coffee is a social drink. Drinking coffee with someone is a very normal, every day activity here and if you're expecting guests then having a can of coffee prepared is almost expected. Like many others in the thread has said, those that claim that coffee tastes bad simply havn't tried good coffee. Many places you'll get brown water that passes for coffee only because it's labeled as such.

Well brewed home-made coffee is a very tasty drink that comes in just as many different flavours as tea, and I highly recommend getting some good coffee from an actual ,professional coffee-shop someday. Starbucks is not a good place for such coffee.

Like many others I started out drinking coffee to get through a very busy day.I worked 16-17 hours a day and got very little sleep for almost two years (worked through the last years of our High School to pay for college). Coffee helped me get through the days and stay awake during classes and essay assignments. Now I don't drink nearly as much as I did back then, but I still enjoy a good cup of steaming black goodness. No addiction here however, but I have seen a few people who only get through their day because of the stuff. Have gone several weeks without a drop of coffee with no head-aches, or other symptoms of withdrawal, though if something like that was to occur I'd start cutting down on the amounts I drink. Addiction is no joke.

The best thing about coffee though, is the way it invites to a good break from everything. It's an icebreaker, asking a pretty girl out for a cup of coffee is never quite as horrifying as asking her out on a "real" date. And I'll admit that my best breaks from lectures are those in which I share a cup of coffee and a cigarette with a good friend. Coffee and cigarettes go hand in hand and is something I'd reccomend to any person mature enough to know their limits regarding health.

[Dr.Epic]

Reference is to The Phantom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom), whose beverage of choice (according to TVTropes) is milk (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePhantom).

But you're right - you don't get much more obscure than 75-year-old continuously-running newspaper comics. :smalltongue:

What? Purple-Man?:smallfrown: Can't I get a superhero with a better live-action film adaptation?

[H Birchgrove]

What? Purple-Man?:smallfrown: Can't I get a superhero with a better live-action film adaptation?

Adam West's Batman liked milk too. :smallcool:

But how can one NOT love this cartoon series? (http://youtu.be/5xLKzsynt5I) :smallbiggrin:

[TheCountAlucard]

\You can make anything caffeinated."Caffeinated bacon, baconated grapefruit... Admiral Crunch?"

[Kneenibble]

I went to Dunkin Donuts on my trip to the states.
The stuff that passes for coffee these days... *sadface*

*hugs closely*
Momma knows, little brother. Momma knows.


Well brewed home-made coffee is a very tasty drink that comes in just as many different flavours as tea, and I highly recommend getting some good coffee from an actual ,professional coffee-shop someday. Starbucks is not a good place for such coffee.

Libelous nonsense. If this is your truly held opinion, then it casts a dark and dubious shadow over the credulity of your entire post with which I otherwise resonate joyfully. Starbucks is a megalith of coffee snobbery that has been for years almost single-handedly saving the world from the brown water you otherwise correctly denigrate.


The best thing about coffee though, is the way it invites to a good break from everything. It's an icebreaker, asking a pretty girl out for a cup of coffee is never quite as horrifying as asking her out on a "real" date. And I'll admit that my best breaks from lectures are those in which I share a cup of coffee and a cigarette with a good friend. Coffee and cigarettes go hand in hand and is something I'd reccomend to any person mature enough to know their limits regarding health.

Indeed this, however, is so. Have you seen the film "Coffee & Cigarettes"?

[Karoht]

*hugs closely*
Momma knows, little brother. Momma knows.*sniff* Thanks.



Libelous nonsense. If this is your truly held opinion, then it casts a dark and dubious shadow over the credulity of your entire post with which I otherwise resonate joyfully. Starbucks is a megalith of coffee snobbery that has been for years almost single-handedly saving the world from the brown water you otherwise correctly denigrate.
I was very surprised to find out that Starbucks coffee in Florida tasted DRASTICALLY different to an identical product in Canada. I've yet to find an explanation for this. In Florida it was the only tolerable coffee I could find (there were zero mom and pops places near the resort I was at, and the resort made terrible coffee as well) but in Canada it's signifigantly better than it was in Florida.

If Starbucks ever shucks the snobbery aspect, I would buy their product more often. Assuming their environmental footprint is as decent as they make it sound, of course.

I loves me my free trade shade grown beans that I get from the farmers market. It's from a deli, if you can believe it, and it's one of the only things they sell that isn't deli product. Go figure.



Indeed this, however, is so. Have you seen the film "Coffee & Cigarettes"?Nope. I'll wiki it though and see if it takes my fancy, thanks.

[Mathis]

Libelous nonsense. If this is your truly held opinion, then it casts a dark and dubious shadow over the credulity of your entire post with which I otherwise resonate joyfully. Starbucks is a megalith of coffee snobbery that has been for years almost single-handedly saving the world from the brown water you otherwise correctly denigrate.

I have a very limited experience with Starbucks I will admit, and that experience has not been good(Starbucks in London). The swill I was served couldn't hold a candle to what we're served in smaller shops and even common cafes over here. My impression of Starbucks, correct me if I'm wrong, has always been that it was a sort of McDonald's of the coffee industry. As Starbucks isn't established in my country, or any of my neighbouring countries which I frequently visit I'm afraid it's going to be a long time until I visit one again to be able to correct my impression. Am I really that far off?



Have you seen the film "Coffee & Cigarettes"?
I havn't, but I've heard good things about it from a friend. Worth watching?

[Greenish]

But how can one NOT love this cartoon series? (http://youtu.be/5xLKzsynt5I) :smallbiggrin:What is that? And is the first guy supposed to be Flash Gordon? What have they done?! :smallfurious:


Anyway, this whole "if you think you don't like coffee, you just haven't tasted it" is the Scotchman fallacy, and quite condescending to boot. It is possible that someone might not like something even if you do. :smallamused:

[Zeb The Troll]

Ah, but I have anecdotal evidence in support of my claims! That's infinitely superior to your fancy-pants "sources" and "studies". :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, thanks for pointing that out to me. I guess, those times I drink a lot of caffeine, I also drink a lot, full stop. It goes a long way to explaining the difference, instead of the standard "diuretic" explanation. I shall have to ask the old mater when next I call.In fairness, that's a fairly recent study (2007) and what you described was generally accepted as the way it worked prior to that.

[Kneenibble]

@ Karoht & Mathis -- Yes, Coffee & Cigarettes is a really cute film. Check it out. :smallsmile:


I have a very limited experience with Starbucks I will admit, and that experience has not been good(Starbucks in London). The swill I was served couldn't hold a candle to what we're served in smaller shops and even common cafes over here. My impression of Starbucks, correct me if I'm wrong, has always been that it was a sort of McDonald's of the coffee industry. As Starbucks isn't established in my country, or any of my neighbouring countries which I frequently visit I'm afraid it's going to be a long time until I visit one again to be able to correct my impression. Am I really that far off?
First off, forgive my North Americocentrism. I hadn't considered that you were from elsewhere. The matter of coffee is probably quite different in Europe, so I can only correct your impression of Starbucks that are over here.

In Canada, almost all coffee is bad. Even the small shops are bad. Oh, not everybody will agree: but I'm a horrible snob with high standards. The cafeteria at the University where I work, for example, boasts that the proprietor roasts the fair-trade beans in-house or something like that: but the coffee is brewed weak as hell, and it sits in the dirty carafes for hours. It's basically the same story everywhere: either the coffee sits and degrades, it's too weak, the beans weren't fresh, &c; a wash of brown water.

Starbucks is the only place that holds itself to any standards. My friend is a baristo and I've learned the details from him, in fact -- their standards of quality and freshness are shockingly strict. It's the only place where I can get drip coffee that I know will always be fresh, strong, and hasn't sat in a dirty container.

I'm only talking about straight up coffee, mind you. I don't go in for the fancy drinks.

So -- in Canada and the U.S.A., at least, no: Starbucks is very much not the McDonald's of coffee. Quite the opposite.

[Whiffet]

So -- in Canada and the U.S.A., at least, no: Starbucks is very much not the McDonald's of coffee. Quite the opposite.

I know everyone is talking about this in terms of quality, but Starbucks and McDonald's are very similar in terms of "Finding One Everywhere You Go, Sometimes More Than Once on the Same Street if Area is Heavily Populated". I hear more jokes about Starbucks being everywhere than McDonald's nowadays. Maybe that's what "the McDonald's of coffee" is supposed to refer to? :smallconfused:

[TheCountAlucard]

I know everyone is talking about this in terms of quality, but Starbucks and McDonald's are very similar in terms of "Finding One Everywhere You Go, Sometimes More Than Once on the Same Street if Area is Heavily Populated". I hear more jokes about Starbucks being everywhere than McDonald's nowadays. Maybe that's what "the McDonald's of coffee" is supposed to refer to? :smallconfused:The same street? Try the same block. A Japanese teacher of mine was recalling how one block had a Starbucks on it, and how for the people of the nearby skyscraper, that still wasn't close enough, so they had a Starbucks put in the skyscraper. :smalltongue:

[Mathis]

@ Karoht & Mathis -- Yes, Coffee & Cigarettes is a really cute film. Check it out. :smallsmile:


First off, forgive my North Americocentrism. I hadn't considered that you were from elsewhere. The matter of coffee is probably quite different in Europe, so I can only correct your impression of Starbucks that are over here.

In Canada, almost all coffee is bad. Even the small shops are bad. Oh, not everybody will agree: but I'm a horrible snob with high standards. The cafeteria at the University where I work, for example, boasts that the proprietor roasts the fair-trade beans in-house or something like that: but the coffee is brewed weak as hell, and it sits in the dirty carafes for hours. It's basically the same story everywhere: either the coffee sits and degrades, it's too weak, the beans weren't fresh, &c; a wash of brown water.

Starbucks is the only place that holds itself to any standards. My friend is a baristo and I've learned the details from him, in fact -- their standards of quality and freshness are shockingly strict. It's the only place where I can get drip coffee that I know will always be fresh, strong, and hasn't sat in a dirty container.

I'm only talking about straight up coffee, mind you. I don't go in for the fancy drinks.

So -- in Canada and the U.S.A., at least, no: Starbucks is very much not the McDonald's of coffee. Quite the opposite.

Sounds like I'll have to visit a Starbucks when I'm the states then! Cause I do like my coffee. I also get all my coffee hints and tips from a barista friend of mine. She's great with coffee and nothing tastes as good as when she brews a fresh cup from one of those wonderfully loud machines (not to mention I usually drink for free when I'm over there so it might just taste twice as good just because of that.). Also a fan of straight up black coffee here. I never use milk or sugar, but that's mostly because I just prefer the raw taste of dark arabica. Wow, that sounded snobbish but it's the truth. I've tried the latte's and frappe's and cappucino's that are all the rage, but the taste just doesn't appeal to me and I have the impression that they're not really coffee in the traditional sense, they just taste like it.

[Kneenibble]

Never be ashamed of snobbery, my dear Mathis. :smallsmile:

The raw taste of dark arabica. Mmm. I'm enjoying a little of that myself right now.

[H Birchgrove]

There's a moral aspect of drinking coffee from Starbucks: the more luxurous drinks are made of Kenyan coffee beans, and Kenya has stricter environmental and work safety regulations than Brazil.

[Lord Raziere]

The same street? Try the same block. A Japanese teacher of mine was recalling how one block had a Starbucks on it, and how for the people of the nearby skyscraper, that still wasn't close enough, so they had a Starbucks put in the skyscraper. :smalltongue:

whats next, putting a personal starbucks inside somebodies home?

…..I've totally just tempted fate right there didn't I? the universe will somehow reveal to me, someday, that somebody did in fact put their own personal starbucks, inside their own home…I just know it will happen now.

[TheCountAlucard]

whats next, putting a personal starbucks inside somebodies home?They already have at-home products, like that Via mix.

[Lord Raziere]

Of course. Why didn't I think of that. -_-

[H Birchgrove]

whats next, putting a personal starbucks inside somebodies home?

…..I've totally just tempted fate right there didn't I? the universe will somehow reveal to me, someday, that somebody did in fact put their own personal starbucks, inside their own home…I just know it will happen now.

Reminds me of the live action Richie Rich film with Macaulay Culkin in which Richie has his private MacDonalds.

I mean, couldn't they have created an imaginary hamburger restaurant owned by the Rich family?

[llamamushroom]

A quick question for the coffee snobs: what kind of coffee preparation do you prefer? Is there a difference in taste?

Back home in Oz, you can pretty much only find espresso machine coffee - I've only ever seen those-things-that-drip-coffee-into-a-communal-jug on American TV and once when I worked catering for a university function. As a tea parvenu, the only difference I could taste was probably more due to the quality of the machine, rather than the preparation itself.

Yes, I know, "parvenu" doesn't make sense in that context, but it's like "snob", but snobbier. Because tea is better. ;)

[Mathis]

A quick question for the coffee snobs: what kind of coffee preparation do you prefer? Is there a difference in taste?[/color]
Edit: When reading this, keep in mind I am no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt. Google things later, educate yourselves!

It sounds like Kneenible is more experienced than I am in this, so he might have more to say. I'll say a few things anyway. Is there a difference in taste? Simply put, yes. Though, as with tea it mostly depends on what kind of beans you use. There are many types out there and many different types of "blends" that cater to various tastes. There is also no one type of "coffee", as for example the taste between a cup of black coffee with no sugar or milk added, and a frappuccino or a cappucino is going to taste wildly different. Since I know nothing about the fancy kinds I'll stick to talking about the simple black cups of coffee. The main difference in taste variance derived from preparation lies in how long the coffee is boiled. If left for too long it will go bitter on you, and if left for too short an amount of time you wont have much flavour transfer to the water at all.

Let's take the simple pre-ground coffee you can get from stores to start with. I'll assume that American( and Australian) stores have something similar to what we have here, where pre-ground beans come in vacuum sealed packages. Rule of thumb here, look for a package with a roast date on it, and pick the package with the roast date closest to the date you are buying it. This is because the more freshly ground, the better. If you go to a coffee shop, they can grind your beans for you ensure you'll have the freshest possible result. This is expensive however, and I can't afford that so I stick with the pre-roasted packages from the store.

At home you can prepare coffee in many different ways, and various methods will give somewhat different results. I do however find that the difference between using for example an auto-drip machine (http://www.coffee-maker-review.net/images/proctorsilex-48574-automatic-drip-coffee-maker-21241263.jpg) and a french press (http://theindependentspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/french-press.jpg) is hardly noticeable, yet still there. Those are the two types of preparation you're most likely to come across unless you have access to professional equipment. As long as you keep your equipment clean though, the result will generally be pretty good.

The main difference in taste you'll encounter in the end, is in the various blends. Explore a little, try out several. Coffee shops will often let you smell and taste their blends. Asking them for tips is great as they generally really know their stuff, much more than I do! Personally I use a french press because I was given one for christmas when I first moved out on my own. Great present. It has helped me through countless late-night reading/writing sessions, and made many a romantic cup of coffee for visitors. This turned out to be more than few things though, I hope it's helpful!


Tea is the scrawny little brother that coffee has to pick up drunk out of his mind from parties at 2am when Tea has had one too many beers. I hope he doesn't throw up in big brother coffee's car. ;)

[Zeb The Troll]

Let's take the simple pre-ground coffee you can get from stores to start with. I'll assume that American( and Australian) stores have something similar to what we have here, where pre-ground beans come in vacuum sealed packages. Rule of thumb here, look for a package with a roast date on it, and pick the package with the roast date closest to the date you are buying it. This is because the more freshly ground, the better. If you go to a coffee shop, they can grind your beans for you ensure you'll have the freshest possible result. This is expensive however, and I can't afford that so I stick with the pre-roasted packages from the store.Actually, many of the grocery stores in my area will also sell you a bag of whole beans and have a commercial grinder right there in the coffee aisle that's free to use, so you can make sure your grind is fresh as of the date of purchase at the very least. More conveniently, if you're concerned about the freshness of the grind (as many French press connoisseurs are), a simple home grinder can be had for ~$10 that is adequate for most purposes (except, ironically perhaps, for the snobbish French presser, as that requires a special kind of grinder that provides a more consistent, coarser, grind).


I do however find that the difference between using for example an auto-drip machine (http://www.coffee-maker-review.net/images/proctorsilex-48574-automatic-drip-coffee-maker-21241263.jpg) and a french press (http://theindependentspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/french-press.jpg) is hardly noticeable, yet still there. Those are the two types of preparation you're most likely to come across unless you have access to professional equipment. As long as you keep your equipment clean though, the result will generally be pretty good.I've never had coffee made with a French press by someone who knows what they're doing and has the right equipment available, but I'm told that this is most certainly not the case. As I said, I can't confirm or deny this based on personal experience. I'm a drip guy because when it comes time for coffee, a French press takes too long per cup to make and you can't make it in volume. :smallcool:


Tea is the scrawny little brother that coffee has to pick up drunk out of his mind from parties at 2am when Tea has had one too many beers. I hope he doesn't throw up in big brother coffee's car. ;) :smalltongue:

[Mathis]

Actually, many of the grocery stores in my area will also sell you a bag of whole beans and have a commercial grinder right there in the coffee aisle that's free to use, so you can make sure your grind is fresh as of the date of purchase at the very least. More conveniently, if you're concerned about the freshness of the grind (as many French press connoisseurs are), a simple home grinder can be had for ~$10 that is adequate for most purposes (except, ironically perhaps, for the snobbish French presser, as that requires a special kind of grinder that provides a more consistent, coarser, grind).

Aha! That's a much better offer then what we can get in grocery store over here. If your store offers this, you're definately in a good spot for good coffee.


I've never had coffee made with a French press by someone who knows what they're doing and has the right equipment available, but I'm told that this is most certainly not the case. As I said, I can't confirm or deny this based on personal experience. I'm a drip guy because when it comes time for coffee, a French press takes too long per cup to make and you can't make it in volume. :smallcool:

Generally you will get a better result from a french press, but only if you know what you're doing. So yeah, you are actually quite right. I personally don't really "know what I'm doing" when I make coffee from a french press, so my result is roughly the same. I really am no expert so do take my advice with a grain of salt and keep that in mind. Though I will admit I havn't had coffee from an auto-drip in a long time, so maybe my memory is wrong here.

[llamamushroom]

At home you can prepare coffee in many different ways, and various methods will give somewhat different results. I do however find that the difference between using for example an auto-drip machine (http://www.coffee-maker-review.net/images/proctorsilex-48574-automatic-drip-coffee-maker-21241263.jpg) and a french press (http://theindependentspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/french-press.jpg) is hardly noticeable, yet still there. Those are the two types of preparation you're most likely to come across unless you have access to professional equipment. As long as you keep your equipment clean though, the result will generally be pretty good.

That's interesting. What about the difference between those methods and espresso? I learnt how to use the parents' home espresso machine, and it seems much more labour intensive than the auto-drip, and I know it's more work than a press. I know you said you weren't an expert, but have you ever tasted a difference between press- and espresso-prepared coffee?

(Bear in mind that you can make a long black with an espresso machine, you don't need to make espresso. I'm sure you already no that, but just in case the repeated terminology gets annoying.)

Coffee is the partying younger brother who embarrasses the entire Hot-Beverage family at weddings by bringing along a bottle of tequila and pashing the bridesmaids, while Tea calmly cleans up the mess.

[Mathis]

That's interesting. What about the difference between those methods and espresso? I learnt how to use the parents' home espresso machine, and it seems much more labour intensive than the auto-drip, and I know it's more work than a press. I know you said you weren't an expert, but have you ever tasted a difference between press- and espresso-prepared coffee?

I don't always drink espresso, but when I do it's prepared by a professional barista and tastes magnitudes better than what I make in my press. That's mostly because they got good equipment and the skill to use it though, and I don't hehe. It has always tasted very good however, and in my subjective opinion better than my press prepared coffee.


(Bear in mind that you can make a long black with an espresso machine, you don't need to make espresso. I'm sure you already no that, but just in case the repeated terminology gets annoying.)

Hey that's pretty cool, hadn't thought of it actually. Thanks for letting us know!


Coffee is the partying younger brother who embarrasses the entire Hot-Beverage family at weddings by bringing along a bottle of tequila and pashing the bridesmaids, while Tea calmly cleans up the mess. Hehehe. Lies I say.

[Winter_Wolf]

How many people have had coffee made with the ol' percolator pot? The kind where you set it and forget it, and a couple hours later you have something that has absorbed everything it possibly can from the grounds. If you're after power and don't care about flavor--I mean really DO NOT CARE about flavor--a percolator will give you a potent brew.*

*Based on leaving it on an oil stove on a commercial fishing boat for 2-4 hours while you're cleaning the set from your net.

I do not use a percolator for coffee anymore, since I like to enjoy the things I eat and drink. Come to think of it, I wouldn't drink percolator coffee when I was fishing, unless we were visiting another boat.**

**When I mean boat, I mean specifically the 32 ft. vessels used for drift netting in the Alaskan fishing industry. Tenders are NOT boats; they're what you'd see on things like "Deadliest Catch".

[Weezer]

How many people have had coffee made with the ol' percolator pot? The kind where you set it and forget it, and a couple hours later you have something that has absorbed everything it possibly can from the grounds. If you're after power and don't care about flavor--I mean really DO NOT CARE about flavor--a percolator will give you a potent brew.*

*Based on leaving it on an oil stove on a commercial fishing boat for 2-4 hours while you're cleaning the set from your net.

I do not use a percolator for coffee anymore, since I like to enjoy the things I eat and drink. Come to think of it, I wouldn't drink percolator coffee when I was fishing, unless we were visiting another boat.**

**When I mean boat, I mean specifically the 32 ft. vessels used for drift netting in the Alaskan fishing industry. Tenders are NOT boats; they're what you'd see on things like "Deadliest Catch".

The thing is that if you use a percolator right (aka take it off the heat once it has brewed to the strength you like, just the thought of letting it percolate for 4 hours makes me twitch) you actually get better coffee than from an auto drip machine. You have a lot more control over how long it percolates so you can get exactly the strength and flavor you want, as opposed to drip machines where you don't have the ability to tweak as much. I used to use it a lot while camping and it makes a pretty good brew.

[Greenish]

Edit: When reading this, keep in mind I am no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt. Google things later, educate yourselves!I do believe some people like coffee with salt, actually. :smallamused:


Tea is the scrawny little brother that coffee has to pick up drunk out of his mind from parties at 2am when Tea has had one too many beers. I hope he doesn't throw up in big brother coffee's car. ;)Tea, as everyone with a dash of sense and a smattering of education knows, is the noblest of (non-alcoholic) beverages. It is by no means junior to that vulgar, newfangled concoction a few benighted barbarians choose to destroy their taste buds with.

[Dr.Epic]

Adam West's Batman liked milk too. :smallcool:

But how can one NOT love this cartoon series? (http://youtu.be/5xLKzsynt5I) :smallbiggrin:

What? That's a worse theme then the 90's Fantastic Four theme.

[TheCountAlucard]

Umm, Greenish, it's taste bud. What you said means something entirely different. :smallredface:

[Greenish]

What? That's a worse theme then the 90's Fantastic Four theme.Those are Flash Gordon, The Phantom, Mandrake the Magician and Lothar, and it's the theme music you find objectionable?

For gods' sake, The Ghost Who Walks is shooting lasers from his Skull Ring! Mandrake doesn't rely on his hypnotic gestures! Lothar wears a shirt! The whole thing's a travesty!


Umm, Greenish, it's taste bud. What you said means something entirely different. :smallredface:If English took it's vowels seriously, it wouldn't need all these blasted consonants. :smalltongue:

[H Birchgrove]

How common is it these days in North America to drink coffee along with the main course? In Europe it's evidently seen as faux pas, as it should be partaken with the dessert.


For gods' sake, The Ghost Who Walks is shooting lasers from his Skull Ring! Mandrake doesn't rely on his hypnotic gestures! Lothar wears a shirt! The whole thing's a travesty!

When you put it that way, I do see your point... :smallamused:

Old Spice Guy as live action Lothar... I'll have very good dreams tonight...

[Remmirath]

How common is it these days in North America to drink coffee along with the main course? In Europe it's evidently seen as faux pas, as it should be partaken with the dessert.


Rather common for breakfast, but for dinner (I assume that is actually what you meant, upon thinking) it seems to be taken with dessert. Note, though, that I'm not really all that up on what is done in North America - I live here, but I never seem to know what most people do. That's what my family and some other people I know do, is all I can really vouch for.

[tyckspoon]

The same street? Try the same block. A Japanese teacher of mine was recalling how one block had a Starbucks on it, and how for the people of the nearby skyscraper, that still wasn't close enough, so they had a Starbucks put in the skyscraper. :smalltongue:

People like to make jokes about this, but.. the thing is, Starbucks has/had one of the best location-research teams in the world. If they were doing something like this, it was because they knew absolutely that they'd make more money for doing so- that skyscraper was, for whatever reason, not being adequately served by the Starbucks already there, and they would have had the cashflow/customer patterns/etc data to prove it.

Starbucks was good enough at this (I don't know if they still have this focus, I read about it some years ago) that the best way for local coffee shops to compete with Starbucks was to move as close to a Starbucks as they could; the presence of a Starbucks meant that's where the customers were, because the Starbucks team had proved it, so all you had to do was be good enough to compete on your own merits once you got yourself there too.

[H Birchgrove]

Rather common for breakfast, but for dinner (I assume that is actually what you meant, upon thinking) it seems to be taken with dessert. Note, though, that I'm not really all that up on what is done in North America - I live here, but I never seem to know what most people do. That's what my family and some other people I know do, is all I can really vouch for.

Yeah, I was thinking of lunch and dinner, and when I think about it, it's probably a "Wild West" thing that survived into the 20th Century, at least in work places and the military. It probably wasn't as common in big cities and "finer circles" (middle class/upper class). To compare, British "greasy spoon" restaurants (marketed for the working class, at least traditionally) serve tea (with milk) along with the lunch (often consisting of eggs, sausages, potatoes etc).

On the other hand, I remember reading the realia part of the text book in English (in grade school), which stated that traditionally, you should only drink water or coffee during Thanksgiving dinner. I guess most Americans aren't dogmatic about that these days.

[Mauve Shirt]

I drink coffee at breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, lunch, and afternoon tea, because I work at a place with a free coffee machine. I didn't used to drink coffee at all. Plus there's a Starbucks in the cafeteria, where my coworkers go on occasion to buy everyone drinks.

[Kneenibble]

That's interesting. What about the difference between those methods and espresso? I learnt how to use the parents' home espresso machine, and it seems much more labour intensive than the auto-drip, and I know it's more work than a press. I know you said you weren't an expert, but have you ever tasted a difference between press- and espresso-prepared coffee?

(Bear in mind that you can make a long black with an espresso machine, you don't need to make espresso. I'm sure you already no that, but just in case the repeated terminology gets annoying.)

It's a matter of taste, because others like them: but for me a long pull draws out an unpleasant sourness from the coffee. I'd rather just draw an ordinary shot or a ristretto and add hot water; the fast addition of water to the shot also prevents the rapid decay into that stale burnt taste.

Between French press and espresso: as for taste -- I'm not sure I could put it into adequate words. It's complicated by the fact that I'd not use the same beans for either. The main difference for me is in texture -- a fresh shot of espresso has that velvety crown of crema on top which is its best feature; the black heart at the bottom is alluringly syrupy; the body inbetween is smooth. Something of that rich thickness is preserved even in an Americano. A cup from a press I would call muddy.

Both have a flavour that is incredibly bold and powerful. I would say in an espresso the individual flavour elements of the beans come through more clearly and distinguishably. A cup from a press is bold and robust, but it's harder to pick out adjectives from it. As I said, my words are probably inadequate.

I must agree, however, that a French press is a much better choice than an auto-drip for flavour.

edit I don't mean to imply that I prefer an espresso outright, by the way. A cup of French press delights me only in different ways, and it's a lot nicer to sip slowly because it doesn't decay the way an espresso does.


Coffee is the partying younger brother who embarrasses the entire Hot-Beverage family at weddings by bringing along a bottle of tequila and pashing the bridesmaids, while Tea calmly cleans up the mess.

Heh heh heh.

Tea is my wife -- I need her around every day; she ennobles me; I would not be the man I am without her; she is classy, perfect, and supports my higher spiritual ambitions.

Coffee is my mistress -- because I need something dark and dirty to mess around with on the weekends or else I'd go nuts.


How common is it these days in North America to drink coffee along with the main course? In Europe it's evidently seen as faux pas, as it should be partaken with the dessert.

It's not common, min kladdkaka. At breakfast, maybe lunch, yes it is -- but your use of 'main course' implies dinner, in which case it is a bit tacky.

[Gnomish Spambot]

I was very surprised to find out that Starbucks coffee in Florida tasted DRASTICALLY different to an identical product in Canada. I've yet to find an explanation for this.

My guess is because of the water they use to make it. I've sometimes noticed this with soft drinks.

I usually drink a 2 liter or so a day on average.

I don't drink caffeine if I am working outside or on my feet, but if I am inside sitting down or driving then I feel drowsy without it and a lot more energized with it.

[Victoria]

I made an interesting discovery about a month ago. You can just buy pure caffeine powder off Amazon.:smallbiggrin: The catch is you need to get a scale that works in mg, or you might overdose, but other than that it is pretty awesome. You can make anything caffeinated. This has opened up a number of fun possibilities, since I don't like the cost and sugar involved in getting soda. I also don't like the taste of regular coffee, and the fancy coffeee that tastes nice is too expensive.

You inspired me to do some calculations out of curiosity to see how the price of that pure caffeine powder stacks up to three other ways of consuming caffeine (energy drinks, soda, coffee). I'll use this thread to post my results.

The following price per volume is expressed in terms of dollars per gram of caffeine, and an explanation of my mathematics.

Red Bull: $25.00
Basis: $2.00 for one 250ml can containing 80mg of caffeine.

Coca-Cola: $6.44
Basis: $1.50 for one 2L bottle containing 233mg of caffeine.

Coffee: $0.45
Basis: $3.00 for one 500g can of coffee, producing 20L of brewed beverage at a strength of 100mg of caffeine per 300ml cup.

Powder: $0.10
Basis: $10.00 for one 100g bottle containing 100g of caffeine.

[TheCountAlucard]

You inspired me to do some calculations out of curiosity to see how the price of that pure caffeine powder stacks up to three other ways of consuming caffeine (energy drinks, soda, coffee).What about chocolate? :smallconfused: Or hell, even tea.

[Knaight]

What about chocolate? :smallconfused: Or hell, even tea.

Tea is going to be horribly inefficient cost wise. Baker's chocolate might actually be worth looking into.

[llamamushroom]

Tea is going to be horribly inefficient cost wise. Baker's chocolate might actually be worth looking into.

Not necessarily - there is more caffeine in a kilo of tea leaves than a kilo of coffee beans. If you re-brew the tea several times, you can get most of that caffeine out. Cost-wise, it is more efficient. Consumption-wise, coffee is much more efficient.

And, Alucard, she did say "compared with three others" not "compared with the three others". She acknowledges that there are others, but those are just the most common/well known high-level caffeine sources.

[Victoria]

What about chocolate? :smallconfused: Or hell, even tea.

Those were the only ones I knew off the top of my head. I have a fair idea of the caffeine content of tea but know little of pricing in my area.

Chocolate I don't even know the caffeine content of.

[Kneenibble]

Not necessarily - there is more caffeine in a kilo of tea leaves than a kilo of coffee beans. If you re-brew the tea several times, you can get most of that caffeine out. Cost-wise, it is more efficient. Consumption-wise, coffee is much more efficient.

For the record, my jasmine dragon tear, almost all of the caffeine is steeped out of tea leaves in less than thirty seconds.

[Knaight]

Not necessarily - there is more caffeine in a kilo of tea leaves than a kilo of coffee beans. If you re-brew the tea several times, you can get most of that caffeine out. Cost-wise, it is more efficient. Consumption-wise, coffee is much more efficient.
A kilo of tea leaves also occupies a far larger volume than a kilo of coffee beans, and as such is several times more expensive.

[jorgealarcon]

I love my cup of coffee each day, but I do not feel that I can't live without it. In fact, I went without coffee for a number of years because of my earlier health condition.

[Greenish]

If you re-brew the tea several times,shame on you!

[Arminius]

You inspired me to do some calculations out of curiosity to see how the price of that pure caffeine powder stacks up to three other ways of consuming caffeine (energy drinks, soda, coffee). I'll use this thread to post my results.

The following price per volume is expressed in terms of dollars per gram of caffeine, and an explanation of my mathematics.

Red Bull: $25.00
Basis: $2.00 for one 250ml can containing 80mg of caffeine.

Coca-Cola: $6.44
Basis: $1.50 for one 2L bottle containing 233mg of caffeine.

Coffee: $0.45
Basis: $3.00 for one 500g can of coffee, producing 20L of brewed beverage at a strength of 100mg of caffeine per 300ml cup.

Powder: $0.10
Basis: $10.00 for one 100g bottle containing 100g of caffeine.
Awesome, thanks for your research in advancing the cause of efficient caffeination!:smallbiggrin:

[Karoht]

I'm trying to track down a waterbottle. A special one.
A friend of mine got one from a promotion at a nearby golf course.
Not only is it designed for hot drinks...
It has a filter that would allow one to toss in a small measure of loose leaf tea leaves (though the opening is large enough for a bag) or mint leaves, and still drink from it like a normal water bottle.
Caution is obviously advised mind you, but what a cool thing. I'm trying to track a few down for christmas gifts to others. That bottle plus a small measure of loose leaf tea should be rather economical.

[H Birchgrove]

Those were the only ones I knew off the top of my head. I have a fair idea of the caffeine content of tea but know little of pricing in my area.

Chocolate I don't even know the caffeine content of.

Chocolate contain theobromine. If it does contain caffeine it can't be much.

[Knaight]

Chocolate contain theobromine. If it does contain caffeine it can't be much.

It has both. Moreover, theobromine is also a stimulant, and probably close enough to caffeine in effect for one to be able to look at it as equivalent, given a ratio of dosage. ED 50 should work as a point of conversion, LD 50 is probably also minimally usable, though less effective and rather morbid.