3.0 to 3.5 wizard school loophole

[archon_huskie]

I found an official DnD book that had a loophole for barred schools. But It was for the 3.0 edition. I want to know if it works for the 3.5 edition as well.

The loophole is take one level of sorceror. Now you can cast from your barred schools using scrolls.

[nedz]

I seem to recall that this is well known

[MesiDoomstalker]

I seem to recall that this is well known

but ill advised barring Ultimate Magus. Losing a caster level to cast spells via scrolls of a banned school is not worth it. Even a Focused Specialist Incantrix would have cherry picked his banned schools to include the weak schools anyways.

[Jack_Simth]

I seem to recall that this is well known
... and is actually called out in the Player's Handbook, yes.

[Psyren]

Don't you end up with the same spells/day as a full generalist with this "trick?" In addition to being a level behind?

(Not counting your CL 1 sorc spells of course.)

[nedz]

Dipping a level of Cleric and taking the Magic domain is better IIRC.
Level 1 cleric spells, Turn undead etc., and can use cleric and all arcane scrolls.

[Fax Celestis]

Or you could just take the Item Reprieve feat from LEoF.

[gbprime]

Dipping a level of Cleric and taking the Magic domain is better IIRC.
Level 1 cleric spells, Turn undead etc., and can use cleric and all arcane scrolls.

Plus then you qualify for Dweomerkeeper, which is even more awesome.

[Keld Denar]

Or you could take the wizard ACF in Complete Champion to get a free domain granted power, and pick Magic. Or take the Planar Touchstone feat, key it to the Catalogues of Enlightenment (man, that place is crowded), and select the Magic domain. Or just put cross class ranks in UMD and get various skill boosters.

Lots of options. Remember that scrolls are almost always scribed at minimum CL and minimum DC. That makes it a bit less impressive for all but most utility spells.

[Rubik]

Or you could take the wizard ACF in Complete Champion to get a free domain granted power, and pick Magic. Or take the Planar Touchstone feat, key it to the Catalogues of Enlightenment (man, that place is crowded), and select the Magic domain. Or just put cross class ranks in UMD and get various skill boosters.

Lots of options. Remember that scrolls are almost always scribed at minimum CL and minimum DC. That makes it a bit less impressive for all but most utility spells.I do like psionics better for this, since (according to CPsi) you can manifest them at your ML with your own pp.

[Psyren]

I do like psionics better for this, since (according to CPsi) you can manifest them at your ML with your own pp.

Doing it via the CPsi method takes a long time though. First, you have to spend a full-round action (which provokes) attuning yourself, and make a psicraft check. Then on the next round, you can manifest the power if you make another psicraft check.

Note that it says you can manifest the power "as if it were a known power." In other words, by RAW it takes a standard action on top of the full-round action you spent preparing the previous round.

But even if you waive that and say the first full-round action was enough, you have exactly one round after that attunement to use the power, or you have to do it all over again, including the two checks. So you can't do this process more than 1 round ahead of time.

Thankfully, you can still use a power stone normally (i.e. like a scroll), though in that case you are restricted to the ML the power was stored at.

[Fax Celestis]

Or you could just take the Item Reprieve feat from LEoF.

You know, looking back at this again I have to say I'm surprised I don't see this chain mentioned more often. For three feats (Spell Reprieve, Item Reprieve, Arcane Transfiguration) and two ranks in Know: History, you can basically be a specialist Diviner with no downside.

[Runestar]

You know, looking back at this again I have to say I'm surprised I don't see this chain mentioned more often. For three feats (Spell Reprieve, Item Reprieve, Arcane Transfiguration) and two ranks in Know: History, you can basically be a specialist Diviner with no downside.

It costs you 3 feats (which don't come cheap in 3.5), and if you choose a "minor school" like enchantment or necromancy, you can probably survive the loss of a few spells. :smallsmile:

[Doc Roc]

Dipping a level of Cleric and taking the Magic domain is better IIRC.
Level 1 cleric spells, Turn undead etc., and can use cleric and all arcane scrolls.

And Dweomerkeeper.

[KicktheCAN]

It costs you 3 feats (which don't come cheap in 3.5), and if you choose a "minor school" like enchantment or necromancy, you can probably survive the loss of a few spells. :smallsmile:

While not worth it for a standard specialist, it might be worth it for a focused specialist incantatrix.

[Fax Celestis]

It costs you 3 feats (which don't come cheap in 3.5), and if you choose a "minor school" like enchantment or necromancy, you can probably survive the loss of a few spells. :smallsmile:

Wizards do get bonus feats.

[Psyren]

Wizards do get bonus feats.

His statement is still true though; feats aren't cheap in 3.5.

[gbprime]

Wizards do get bonus feats.

And nobody stays in wizard long enough to get more than 1 bonus feat. You've picked up a PrC long before the level 10 bonus feat rolls around.

[Alefiend]

Doing it via the CPsi method takes a long time though. First, you have to spend a full-round action (which provokes) attuning yourself, and make a psicraft check. Then on the next round, you can manifest the power if you make another psicraft check.
etc.


You'd have to be pretty desperate to use scrolls in combat anyway, IMHO. This seems like something better suited for utility than 'splodies.

[Amphetryon]

And nobody stays in wizard long enough to get more than 1 bonus feat. You've picked up a PrC long before the level 10 bonus feat rolls around.

Well, two bonus feats, technically, since Scribe Scroll is a 1st level bonus feat. Focused casters may well trade away Scribe Scroll on an ACF, but they've still attained it.

[Psyren]

You'd have to be pretty desperate to use scrolls in combat anyway, IMHO. This seems like something better suited for utility than 'splodies.

For the most part you are correct; particularly for buffs in stone-form, if you need a bigger ML to make them last longer.

However, the alternate-addressing rule is helpful in some combat instances:
- Wilders can use it to apply their Wild Surge to stone powers. This is particularly helpful given their low powers known, as they can then use a few stones to supplement their limited repertoire with a helpful niche power.
-It's also one of the very few ways (psionic artificer is the only other one that comes to mind right away) to apply metapsionics to power stones.
- The final and simplest use is just to be able to augment and/or boost the DC of a key power in stone form.

[nedz]

Dipping a level of Cleric and taking the Magic domain is better IIRC.
Level 1 cleric spells, Turn undead etc., and can use cleric and all arcane scrolls.

As other people have said you could then go into Dweomerkeeper, but that is serious cheese: you do play High OP yes ?

[Fax Celestis]

His statement is still true though; feats aren't cheap in 3.5.

Sure, but would you spend three feats to get an extra spell slot of every level, plus a free spell? There's a feat for a single slot and another feat for a single spell, so that seems more than a fair trade to me.

[Rubik]

You'd have to be pretty desperate to use scrolls in combat anyway, IMHO. This seems like something better suited for utility than 'splodies.This, basically. I never keep Inertial Armor as a power known for this reason, since I can buff myself for hours for 25 gp.

Who needs a +1 full plate or +5 mithral shirt when you can have a +1 padded armor with a ton of special abilities (like gleaming) and a few 25 gp power stones?