Pied Piper: Can this be done without homebrew?

[Coidzor]

Or any homebrew that you think is on the level that'd facilitate it?

Doesn't seem like it, unless you allow for perform-check diplomancy to make animals fanatic and for music to be used as a vehicle to deliver commands to more than one animal with handle animal at a time.

Closest thing I can think of is Initiate of Nature or the old 3.0 Animal Control feat.

[Malachei]

I'm not sure, but Summon Swarm?

Or a Bard casting Mass Charm Person and Mass Charm Monster.

[Flickerdart]

Perform can be used to sway an audience just like Diplomacy. Then all you need is a way to communicate with rats (animal empathy, lycanthropic empathy) and you're all set.

[Friv]

Pipes of the Sewer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#pipesoftheSewers), my friend. You'd probably want to have a much stronger version with Mass Charm Person in it as well, but that covers step one.

[Malachei]

=Flickerdart]Perform can be used to sway an audience

Good point.

Also, fascinate (Sp).


Pipes of the Sewer, my friend.

Yes, but the pied piper actually charmed the children, as well.

[TroubleBrewing]

Couldn't you just re-fluff Suggestion?

[Tvtyrant]

What if you were in a city? The pipes of the sewer would be calling way more than 1d3 in a big, medieval city. They should make it like "1d3 a turn," but with a graduated perform DC.

[Malachei]

Couldn't you just re-fluff Suggestion?

Suggestion is language-dependent. Re-crunchable, yes, of course.

And would work on the children, in the mass suggestion version.

[Jack_Simth]

A number of ways.

Let's see... if you allow reflavoring (explicitly suggested per DMG page 34, but if for some reason your DM doesn't like that, take Invisible Spell from Cityscape, or maybe Spell Thematics to have similar effects), Rainbow Pattern (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rainbowPattern.htm) plus something to exclude things, like ... oh, I don't know, Extraordinary Spell Aim, Sculpt Spell, or maybe the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping High Arcana ... and you get an effect very much like the Pied Piper.

If you cast Sympathy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sympathy.htm) on the flute, and specify the species. Then use Antilife Shell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm) so they can't actually reach the flute. You get rats or children (by specifying "Human children" as the attracted kind) following you. Playing the flute is optional for this one.

[Flickerdart]

Sympathy only works on intelligent creatures.

[Urpriest]

Sympathy only works on intelligent creatures.

Is intelligent defined in the rules though? The most intuitive definition seems to be "has an intelligence score", which the rats certainly do.

[navar100]

I'm away from my books right now, but I'm pretty sure I saw a Prestige Class in Pathfinder that does this. It's in either Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Magic; I'm thinking the latter. Any one know for sure? I'll check when I get home.

[Fax Celestis]

Animals, as intelligent creatures, are affected by bardic music. Use fascinate/suggestion, possibly take Green Ear to affect plants. Hit up Virtuoso...

[navar100]

Back home. Checked my books. Misremembered. It's not a prestige class. It's a 6th level bard spell called Pied Piping in Advanced Player's Guide.

I can't find the books to check, but I may also have been reminiscing of an old 3.0 Prestige Class from one of the splat books. I vaguely remember a picture of a flute or pipe playing bard leading I think a mind flayer with other monsters.

[Demons_eye]

What if you were in a city? The pipes of the sewer would be calling way more than 1d3 in a big, medieval city. They should make it like "1d3 a turn," but with a graduated perform DC.

I swarm of nonflying tiny creatures such as rats is 300. Even in a giant city ad swarms a turn seems a tad high.

[Rubik]

A thrallherd? Empty your believer reservoir, specify that 'were rat' is on the menu for new thralls. Play a flute for fluff as you command them to drown themselves. Then specify that your next day's reservoir fill up with children (which have to be a day's walk away or less, and children aren't terribly fast overland).

Voila.

[DonutBoy12321]

Exemplar 5 would give a +4 on Perform checks, automatic take 10 on Perform checks, and the ability to substitute Perform for Diplomacy. Then find a way to speak rat and pick up Mindbender 1 and the feat that generally comes with it to talk in the minds of the rats or children. Take Bard as your base class, and you are all set.
Also, if I remember correctly, isn't there a spell called Speak with Animals?
Edit: Yes, there is a 3rd level Bard spell called Speak with Animals. It only has a duration of 1 min./level though, so it may not work for long-period rat evacuation.

[jonnybard]

the real trouble is the children what lvls are you looking at cause i'm doing the same build right now and i am going to use the pipe of the sewer for the rats but unless i go way high lvl a thrall herd is a minimum lvl 7 class and a psionic which i want to avoid.
i am looking for a lvl 4-6 recurring villain
Hypnotize/Rainbow pattern then charm then suggest then dominate. Permanency? kind of slow but could get a group in a few days.
if it wasn't a lvl 9 druid spell Sympathy would be perfect
i also thought about a gray jester but that starts at a cr 4
any thoughts or advice would be welcome

[Fax Celestis]

If you're using this for a villain, just use the Minions rules in Exemplars of Evil.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, that was part of my problem when I was tinkering with homebrewing something up to fill this in. Should see if I still have the notes anywhere, I hope they were in my dropbox...

Felt like either A. I was giving the ability to take control of mobs of the weak-willed way too early or B. I was giving the ability to control mobs at a level where mobs were no longer relevant and stuck trying to figure out a way for one to actually keep mobs or take them with one's self or form them and it was just a mess. XD