Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLI: No Morals! No Quarter! All Brutal! [Archive]

Johnny Blade

2011-11-22, 06:34 PM

This is the new thread for talking about whatever we feel like, which sometimes happens to be a terrible comic called Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/), for which a man going by the name of Mookie is responsible.

Snark Chronology (Snarkhronology)

Thread I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26550) - Oct 31 2006 to Aug 9 2007 - 77 pages, the first half of which actually contained praise yet. Then Snowsong came about...
Thread II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53160) - Aug 8 2007 to Jun 10 2008 - the epic one, 301 pages, OVER NINE THOUSAAAND posts. Here the foundations of Domiology - our snarky fanon - were created.
Thread III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82855) - 10 Jun 2008 to Aug 12 2008 - 63 pages of snarky goodness, first one to contain the archives in the first post.
Thread IV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87587) - Aug 12 2008 to Sept 20 2008 - 50 pages, the one that carried us through the first half of the horrid Vacation Arc and brought the first actual fans into our threads (of course, their resolve starts to falter by now :smalltongue:)
Thread V (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91533) - Sept 20 2008 to Oct 18 2008 - 50 pages, the Vacation Arc continues to our unimaginable horror.
Thread VI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94191) - Oct 18 2008 to Nov 11 2008 - 50 pages, the final part of the vacation. So much to be learnt about walls and limbs; knowledge that Mookie, unfortunately, shall never possess.
Thread VII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96181) - 10 Nov 2008 to Dec 1 2008 - 50 pages, finally the Plot Creature caught up - but what has Mookie done to Celesto and TIM?
Thread VIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98206) - Dec 1 2008 to Dec 23 2008 - 51 pages, wherein Dex rises from the dead and we are introduced to Sn'gl'euth'u, the cutest extradimensional Lovecraftian being since Hello Cthulhu.
Thread IX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100412) - Dec 23 2008 to Feb 20 2009 - 50 pages, which taught us that orcs not only have despicable traditions, they are also completely insane.
Thread X (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105160) - Feb 20 2009 to Apr 5 2009 - 50 pages, which taught us that orcs are not only completely insane, they are actually crazy enough to make Cthulhu roll Sanity checks!
Thread XI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108632) - Apr 5 2009 to May 1 2009 - 51 pages, in which the orcs are at their height of insanity (going one step beyond), Luna is the designated Messiah of Everything and that tusks make you speshul.
Thread XII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110535) - May 1 2009 to Jun 6 2009 - 50 pages, where the orcs, after reaching the height of insanity previously, find ways to fly to entirely new planes of mind-crushing madness, sufficient to warp their plain to the size of a backyard and time to freeze, as nothing interesting happens at all.
Thread XIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113899) - Jun 6 2009 to July 9 2009 - 50 pages, where the orcs continue to plumb the bottomless depths of inanity. Oh, and insanity too. Meanwhile, Luna discovers a new Sue power: inflicting the worst monologues ever on hapless readers. Also, Jacob is evil.
Thread XIV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117735) - July 9 2009 to Aug 6 2009 - 50 pages, where we are still occupied with Orcs. Orcs. Orcs, everywhere! Oh gods, is this arc not going to end ever?! I repent, Mookie! I repent! Just make it stop! Make it stooooop!
Thread XV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120700) - Aug 6 2009 to Sept 7 2009 - 50 pages, with Orcs, who do Orc things and KILL THEM, KILL ALL THE ORCS, EXTERMINATE THEM, SO THIS HORROR CAN END!
Thread XVI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124177) - Sept 7 2009 to Sept 26 2009 - 50 pages. Do I have to tell you what it was about at this point anymore? You have three guesses. And the first two don't count.
Thread XVII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126357) - Sept 26 2009 to Oct 20 2009 - 51 pages. The Orcs are still insane, and in this thread, they managed to temporarily infect us. Among the results are a debate about relativism and many pictures of various cute, funny, and weird animals. There also was a decapitation. It was metal.
Thread XVIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128950) - Oct 20 2009 to Nov 19 2009 - 50 pages, in which the March Through Maltak continues against logic, reason, good taste and sanity. Also including attempts at a non-lethal battle and awesome plot twists(Dominic fixes everything!)
Thread XIX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132191) - Nov 19 2009 to Dec 15 2009 - 50 pages. The Battle At the Bikta Sanctuary is trudging along, with consistency and logic being casualties.
Thread XX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135156) - Dec 15 2009 to Jan 14 2010 - 50 pages, where many lessons are learned: Never trust a bard, rain solves everything, and a stunning revelation by a necromancer so important it's the next thread title.
Thread XXI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138491) - Jan 14 2010 to Feb 25 2010 - 51 pages. Now that events have been set into motion that may affect the destiny of the entire world, we get to see Nimmel and his crazy college shenanigans!
Thread XXII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143382) - Feb 25 2010 to Mar 31 2010 - 51 pages, where Nimmel fully ascends into the First Caste, donning the Mantle of Sue that he might make us all immune to boobs.
Thread XXIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147387) - March 31 2010 to May 9 2010 - 50 pages. After Talking to one tentacled creature about another, Mamma Deegan returns home, and Greg starts a band.
Thread XXIV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151903) - May 9, 2010 to June 9, 2010 - 50 pages. Greg's band is so meh it's un-****ing believable.
Thread XXV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155528) - June 9, 2010 to July 22, 2010 - 51 pages. The strange ecology of the Wild Edge Territory, and the stranger behavior of the Callanians living there. If there's a keyword, it's "random". Also, inappropriate names for creatures.
Thread XXVI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161259) - July 22, 2010 to Sept. 6 2010 - 50 pages. Stunt's stunts in the Wild Edge show a stunting of character and such stunted emotional capacity that he probably suffers from stunt. Also, Celesto meditates naked.
Thread XXVII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167391) - Sept. 6, 2010 to Oct. 6, 2010 - 50 pages. The comic goes to hell. Again. Siegfried returns and shouts a lot.
Thread XXVIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170984) - Oct. 6, 2010 to Oct. 27, 2010 - 50 pages. Curly has exploded at the end of the War in Hell just like a soul. Now, on to a trial.
Thread XXVIIIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174904) - Nov. 6, 2010 to Nov. 7, 2010 - 1 page. Wherein a true fan who has made it as far as Storm of Souls, makes a thread.
Thread XXIX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173658) - Oct. 27 2010 to Dec. 2, 2010 - 50 pages. The "trial" is just a veiled excuse to have Bulgak grow wings on his head and look into goalposts that show him important events in his past.
Thread XXX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178126) - Dec. 2, 2010 to January 1, 2011 - 51 pages. Bulgak goes boom. Filler. Then nothing happens except Curly's marathon readthrough of Maltak.
Thread XXXI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181831) - Jan. 1, 2011 to January 21, 2011 - 50 pages. Dominic and Luna finally show up, and then we get an arc about plastic surgery.
Thread XXXII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184423) - Jan. 22, 2011 to Feb. 18, 2011 - 50 Pages. Luna is great. So great. Also: Snuggly joins the Loony Toons.
Thread XXXIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187872) - Feb. 19, 2011 to Mar. 24, 2011 - 50 pages. Snuggly is allergic to shellfish. Facebath returns to sing songs about how Luna is so great.
Thread XXXIV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192305) - Mar. 24, 2011 to April 19, 2011 - 50 pages. Snuggly kills an all-powerful archmage and no one is too concerned about it. Also, we met King DJ.
Thread XXXV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195911) - April 19, 2011 to May 23, 2011 - 50 pages. Dominic must find Celesto for no reason in particular. The Battlecasters are spying on all Second Sight, everywhere.
Thread XXXVI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200381) - May 24, 2011 to June 24, 2011 - 50 pages. Dominic visits his old friend Szark. Together, they uncover the dark secret of two teenagers who, brace yourself, are trapped in a vicious cycle of bullying. Holy moly! The world-destroying abomination is assumed to still be relevant, but not even Dominic knows why.
Thread XXXVII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204587) - June 24, 2011 to August 7, 2011 - 50 pages. Dominic strips naked and drives a small child insane while Szark prevents anyone from helping the kid.
Thread XXXVIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210535) - August 7, 2011 to September 14, 2011 - 51 pages. Dominic pulls out some old tricks and some new ones, we're all totally confused, and then we're smacked with a one-two punch of Smug and Great.
Thread XXXIX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11850807) - September 15, 2011 to October 19, 2011 - 50 pages. Luna and Greg go to an art gallery, some stuff with battlecasters happens, somehow we manage to draw this out for fifty pages.
Thread XL (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219377) - October 19, 2011 to November 23, 2011 - 50 pages. The budding love between Gregory and some battlecaster whose name nobody cares about and the union between a toast and a lizard showed us that love conquers all. A guitar will do just as well, though.

And our sister threads:
Strip Slays, the best thread ever (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37014)
Strip Slays 2: the best thread strikes back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91628)
Strip Slays 3 - Someone Is Going To Slay For This Outrage. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108763)
Strip Slays 4: A Slay On Words. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176043)
If the madness of this thread does not suffice to bring your SAN rating down, those will. For sure. :smallcool:
[DD Snark]Maltak: The Unsuckening (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168703) - Art by Domochevsky, Writing by Oracle_Hunter, edited by us. A parody of the longest arc done in the style of Hiimdaisy's comic strips, now with snazzy new (non-sucky) link! (http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/)
Dominic Deegan - The Second Coming (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99280) - the now dead Dominic Deegan rewrite, where everyone could contribute! Assuming it was still alive.

For more information, check out the Encyclopedia Dominica (http://encyclopedia-dominica.wikidot.com/), our all-encompassing archive of knowledge! It's a wiki!

If you're wondering why we snark, check out Why We Snark (http://encyclopedia-dominica.wikidot.com/why-we-snark) on the wiki!

For further reading, there's The Descent of Man (into Madness and Mookie) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4177568&postcount=7472) by Johnny Blade.

And there is also the Dominic Deegan game: Punchy's Brilliant Adventure: Ley Line Scramble (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/565899), courtesy of TamerBill!

MORE FUN STUFF:

Snarky Flowcharts (Flowsnarks)
Turcano's Chart of Arc Hope
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5959/flowchart.pngHelanna's Chart of Thread Trends
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/DeathDragon92/DominicDeeganFlow.png
guttering_flame's Cycle of Life and Death (Spoiler: It All Leads to Maltak)
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z280/corkyball/Dominic%20Deegan%20Slays/theChart2.jpg
Snark Art (Snart)

Dominic Deegan's art is garbage. However, some people may at times believe, possible after being exposed to it for way too long a time, that it's not that bad.
Well, here's something to guide the lost souls back to the light.

Domo's Beef:

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_1.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_2.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_3.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_4.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_5.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_6.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_7.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_8.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_9.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_10.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_11.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_12.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_13.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_14.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_15.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_16.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_17.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_18.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_19.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_20.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_21.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_22.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_23.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_24.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_25.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_26.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_27.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_28.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_29.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_30.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_31.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_32.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_33.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_34.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_35_p3p4.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_36.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_37.png
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_38.png

Domo's Reenvisioning (of the Melna vs Taran fight scene and Luna's entrance at the Bikta camp):

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/ReenvSketch.png

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/ReenvSketch_2.png

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/ReenvSketch_2b.png

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/ReenvSketch_3.png

Silverblood

http://th04.deviantart.net/fs49/300W/i/2009/218/7/3/Choose_Wisely_by_Flynn_the_cat.jpg
Pay close attention, you may notice a little surprise.

Garland

BEHOLD! MUSTACHE!
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7472/warlordmustache.jpg

SNARKSERVICE
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8283/dwarfpunch.jpg

Maltak: The Unsuckening

8 out of Unknown parts done so far. (http://domochevsky.deviantart.com/gallery/26587220)

Domo's commentary on werewolf society:
http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_41.png

TamerBill's animations:

Big Stuff
Dominic Deegan: The Animated Series (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111306)
Battle For Barthis 2 (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111299)
Magical Nerd Lyrical Nimmeloha (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111325)

Little Stuff
Power-Walking With Nimmel Fenix (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111322)
Dominic Dansen: Oracle for Hire (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111305)
Young Men's Chibi Association (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111336)
Hell Is Other Panels (http://megaswf.com/serve/1111327)

Joro's good old days:
In an alternate universe, Dominic Deegan: Surly Jerk With a Fish on His Head is a well regarded webcomic.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2vbo782.png
Crud, I think I drew his nose off center.

Jacob used to be somewhat cool. What happened? Curse you, Maltak.
http://i29.tinypic.com/2qizrr4.png
Glass Mouse:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z250/GlassMouse/DomPuppeteer.gif

Averagejoe's One Panel (Sn)Arcs
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u282/teddifunken/onepanel3.jpg

Trazoi

2011-11-22, 07:06 PM

Toast1862

2011-11-22, 07:07 PM

Woo, new thread!

So Tessa was in that Confession thing? My confession: I've never read that part. Either of them. When I did my archive trawl they looked so boring. And why in Luana's name are there two versions of the same thing?!

Wait, that sounds eerily similar to a recent arc...

Wasn't that the one where another artist did it? I kind of remember reading it, but it was so boring that I don't remember what happened. So yes, you were probably right. If I'm thinking of the right thing, though, there are two different artists who did it *and that's why there were two versions.

Edit: *

Trazoi

2011-11-22, 07:19 PM

I didn't and still don't get why two artists did the same thing. Or why they're in the main archive back to back. Did Mookie write the story? Is it technically "canon" (for how much that means these days).

When I was archive trawling I thought the first one was a fanfic used as filler, so I skimmed it for a couple of pages and then skipped the rest. I was confused as all heck when the thing rebooted again at the end. It was like Groundhog day, except with annoyingly Bryonic pictures of annoying Szark.

Oracle_Hunter

2011-11-22, 08:27 PM

The Confession(s) is actually terrifying.

Look at Szark on this first page (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2005-06-27) of Confession I. Look at it! :smalleek:

Confession II was better except for the dead fish eyes (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2005-07-06) on all the people.

Also, Mookie finally credited the folks who drew it for them. Glad to see he's fixing some of his bad habits.

Re: Red Shirt Soup Wench
We made that term. Well, specifically, Kukn did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3625984&postcount=3934). I actually thought I had but I guess I just used it a lot?

I hadn't even realized Tessa had been around before her Soup Wenching days, nor that she was even an actual Luanian Priestess. I'm really curious why Mookie decided to bring her back, or even point out who she is...

Glass Mouse

2011-11-22, 08:29 PM

I didn't and still don't get why two artists did the same thing. Or why they're in the main archive back to back. Did Mookie write the story? Is it technically "canon" (for how much that means these days).

Yes, and yes.

The story was Szark confessing that he caused a ruthless business woman's murder. She'd wronged some man, and when he sought revenge, Szark could have stopped him, but didn't because he enjoyed watching them die. Instead, he just murdered the man afterwards and was proclaimed a hero for killing the murderer.

It became a plot point in Battle of Barthis where Szark's father had apparantly taken the job of cleaning the woman's legal mess because his son was involved in the murder. Those papers held some proof against Mr. EvilBusinessMan.
And somehow a talking muffin was involved.

OhgodwhydoIrememberthis

Trazoi

2011-11-22, 08:54 PM

Oh. :sigh:

And of course Szark is allowed to keep roaming the streets and anyone who objects to him teaching their children has to be a nasty homophobe because obviously that's the only reason they could object to such a fine upstanding gentleman.

I hadn't even realized Tessa had been around before her Soup Wenching days, nor that she was even an actual Luanian Priestess. I'm really curious why Mookie decided to bring her back, or even point out who she is...
This is the Jayden arc. Mookie's been reading Shadows of Siegfried to prepare.

What's that you say? King Dave who? I don't remember anything about a plot.

Traab

2011-11-22, 09:07 PM

Well he was under the influence of a demonic wound that has since been healed and gotten rid of, (I think) He then went off to that monastery for some psychological (spiritual) treatment, and apparently he became gay instead of bisexual. I look at his behavior in errosus as something along the lines of a man who committed crimes because of a serious psychological problem, who went and got treatment for it and is now better.

Of course, in his case he didnt actually break any laws. Amelia did, but szark was signing legal contracts to take part in legal duels to the death. He wasnt aware of the fact that amelia was basically mind controlling everyone involved. Hell, aside from being gay, szark is the ideal of manly man behavior in callan. He kills people, sleeps around, and practices a manly skill. (Sword fighting is so macho) If it wasnt for his man loving homosexual ways, they would likely have parades in his honor and elect him king next.

Trazoi

2011-11-22, 09:30 PM

Mr. McGician

2011-11-22, 09:34 PM

This is the Jayden arc. Mookie's been reading Shadows of Siegfried to prepare.

What's that you say? King Dave who? I don't remember anything about a plot.

It's almost the end of the year, and this arc is basically over. The very idea that Mookie would end the year in the middle of an arc is simply outrageous. And the idea that he could fit a storyline into a mere month is equally outrageous; all storylines obviously need to have horrible pacing and last at least three months. Therefore, we need a short and pointless filler arc to end the year, allowing Mookie to start the next plot-stalling arc at the beginning of the new year.

Traab

2011-11-22, 09:40 PM

Everyone pleads "Demons made me do it" in Callan. It's why their prisons are empty. That and Dominic keeps blowing them up. :smalltongue:

It's more that Szark keeps getting more hilarious in that Mookie doesn't realise all the terrible implications he creates in every single storyline he appears in. He really hasn't thought about it at all.

Did Szark do anything at all to redeem himself other than go to the cathedral and (maybe?) donate the money back? In a regular storyline a heroic character with Szark's past would dedicate their lives to undoing their crimes. But this is DD where Dominic can absolve you of all your sins.

He helped save barthis by kicking scarlettis ass and showed he had his impulse to kill under control, even under HEAVY provocation. Now he lives what he likely hoped would be, a quiet life teaching children how to use swords. A pretty good choice since sword fighting is his best skill. Too bad the plot had to roll over all that and ruin it.

TheLaughingMan

2011-11-22, 11:38 PM

Rappy

2011-11-22, 11:55 PM

Ahh, dig that fresh, fail-scented new thread smell.

Alright, catching up on the last thread since the update...

Combined with the moustache it's DD in the 70s.
If I want 1970s-themed kitchen sink fantasy, I will stick with Damnation Decade, thank you very much. [/Fauxsnobbery]

Wait... Tessa? This (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-11-14) Tessa?

Behold! It is the return of the original Red Shirt Soup Wench! All hail!

This is unreal. It is Tessa. The name and character design are the same. Mookie remembers her. I don't know if he kept track of the character or had her in his notes* or went on an archive crawl or what, but the fact remains that Mookie is able to bring to mind an unimportant background character who had like two lines four years ago.

But he still can't keep track of his plot from one week to the next!

*Like he keeps notes on this comic...
It is impressive, isn't it? In a sad sort of way.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 12:18 AM

He helped save barthis by kicking scarlettis ass and showed he had his impulse to kill under control, even under HEAVY provocation.
Unfortunately the comic seems to act like one piddly little demonstration of self-control is enough.

Szark never acts like he shows any remorse for everything he did in his former life. His arcs seem to have more mopey about how no-one will accept him and how he'll never win Dominic's heart rather than all the atrocities he did. Heck, there's a point where he's joking about how he raped Bumper. That wouldn't be terrible per se if Szark was meant to be an unlikeable monster, but that's hardly the case at all.

The other big reason Szark wanting the quiet life is a massive piece of worldbuilding fail stemming from Mookie not putting any thought into the consequences of his characters actions, especially anything that doesn't directly involve a Deegan. Remember how Greg recently stove in the head of Celesto because the mean chaos mage once hurt his brother? Imagine how many people are rightfully pissed off with Szark. Szark is a duellist in a kingdom where death fights are legal, who made his name by killing scores of rich powerful men in rigged fights. It sounds like the entire ruling elite of Callan must have a relative killed by him at some point. You think they're going to accept "a demon made me do it" as an excuse? Why isn't Szark dead yet?

Edit: Argh I'm ranting on Szark again, c'mon comic why won't you upd... hey you did!
Sneaky Gate (http://dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111123.gif)
Future Link (http://dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-23)

Oh great, it's a self-parody arc. Or is it? I... I don't know if that's a good or bad thing anymore. :smalleek:

M84

2011-11-23, 12:30 AM

So Jayden hasn't spoken a word in months in-universe and out. That already makes her more tolerable than most of the other characters. Shame it's still based on her relationship issues. Seriously, she needs to have character outside of her connections to Siggy and Milov.

colonelslime

2011-11-23, 12:57 AM

So is this like THE Church of Luana? How is it Jayden is even here, in the same building as Mervin and Stiles?

Also, I'm torn between my dislike of Mookie finishing a strip about a character's psychological damage with a gag, and my total apathy towards Jayden's fate and character.

Mr. McGician

2011-11-23, 12:58 AM

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 01:10 AM

So is this like THE Church of Luana? How is it Jayden is even here, in the same building as Mervin and Stiles?
It's Aberhest Cathedral, or however you spell it. Where all the Third Castes go to be redeemed according to Dominus' will.

Also, I'm torn between my dislike of Mookie finishing a strip about a character's psychological damage with a gag, and my total apathy towards Jayden's fate and character.
My favourite part is how Mookie thinks lampshading all the plot holes in the first three panels are going to distract us. Sorry Mookie, I'm not going to ignore that none of this makes sense and how the protagonists are all relaxed even though they know they've annoyed the uber-wizard-seer that can teleport and knows where they are.

Helanna

2011-11-23, 01:36 AM

Jayden isn't actually being silent. You can clearly see she's speaking dot-speak, the same language thatMiranda's bird-spider friend (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2010-12-14) speaks. Dot-speak is a very efficient language, at least orthographically. Jayden is actually spewing out the walls of text that are typical of characters in this comic, but her speech can be simply written as three dots.

Yeah, I'm really not sure why Mookie thought he needed to symbolize silence. I mean, that's kinda the default. Why would you draw a speech bubble from someone who's being completely silent?!

Also, in the last panel, we get to see how mustache + cheekmouth = awfulness. Errgg.

random11

2011-11-23, 01:46 AM

Wouldn't it be funny is a priest will just come in now and scream at Luna for trying to break Jayden's vow of silence?

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 02:21 AM

Does Dominikudigan's plot make more sense?
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/802/20111123dk.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/20111123dk.gif/)
I don't know, but I like Marvin (that's his Dominikudigan name.)

Zaq

2011-11-23, 02:30 AM

I'm wondering just who emailed Mookie and reminded him that Team Deegan was trying to meet with Celesto in order to get past the wards, because there's no way in hell that he remembered that on his own. No way in hell.

Also, there's a gag here about how Jayden never had a voice to start with, but I'm feeling lazy and a little tired, so someone else can make it.

random11

2011-11-23, 02:38 AM

I'm wondering just who emailed Mookie and reminded him that Team Deegan was trying to meet with Celesto in order to get past the wards, because there's no way in hell that he remembered that on his own. No way in hell.

Does it matter?
Mentioning plot holes doesn't magically fix them, that requires an actual PLOT.

T-O-E

2011-11-23, 03:21 AM

Maybe this will teach Mookie to actually convey emotion without having his characters talk about it? And to use the art part of his comic to enhance his storytelling?

Pretty unlikely.

Maybe we'll have talking head bubbles filled with ellipses. Hey, at least the dialogue'll improve.

Glass Mouse

2011-11-23, 03:32 AM

So is this like THE Church of Luana? How is it Jayden is even here, in the same building as Mervin and Stiles?

Well, to be fair, her previous home was blown up. Plus, I can't imagine she'd be useful to send anywhere else, what with her not talking and stuff.

Does Dominikudigan's plot make more sense?
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/802/20111123dk.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/20111123dk.gif/)

Is... Luna trying to hook up Jayden and Celesto? :smallconfused:

Johnny Blade

2011-11-23, 04:44 AM

Jayden cheats on Milov with Siegfried.

Jayden never talks about it until it's revealed by Siggy from Hell.

The rest of Jayden's and Milov's interactions in Shadows of Siegfried mainly consist of awkward silence (well, and that Milov killed her but wait it's an illusion so no big deal) as they both struggle to find the right words to say after this but fail.

The lesson Jayden takes from this: Never say a word ever again.

THE BEST CHARACTER.

Also, Luna. I swear no other character jumps from one emotion to another quite as happily and erratically as her. I seriously sometimes can't believe she's not supposed to be insane.

Especially since I, uh, assume Luna started the conversation, probably. Meaning she must have just ****ing dumped everything that happened in the last three arcs on Jayden jumping from one of those weird faces she makes to another every two sentences in the process, probably doing sound effects too, and only after all that stopped to ask how life's been treating her dear childhood friend after she went through a traumatic break-up and got kicked out of the Winter Archipelago, where I'm pretty sure she lived and worked permanently, by her ex.

THE BESTEST CHARACTER.

Baldur's Gate stuff:
Killing Kangaxx with the Mace of Disruption came up...you can do that? I really don't know, the game is funny when it comes to documenting what a weapon can hit sometimes and I always assumed it's a +2 weapon (and that the instant kill effect only triggers on potentially damaging - even if it's 0 damage - hits).
I thought it came down to traps, Ring of the Ram, Melf's Minute Meteors, Flame Tongue, that vanilla +4 staff, and now that I think of it there's the Cloak of Stars as well I guess?
Truth be told I usually don't even get the mace upgraded since I give the illithium to the artist. I almost always choose XP over items, no matter how good the trade-off is.
And I try to have Athkatla lich-free - very much not counting Shangalar - before I get involved in the guild war and hit level 7 spells (mage and priest both) for a challenge. The Sword Coast Stratagems mod does make that pretty hard, though.

Also, I must say that dualing Safana to a mage has proven to make things rather interesting for her. Staying at 30 hitpoints with too few spell slots to protect herself well and what she can do running out in no time for pretty much the entirety of the bandit-related part of the game, with arrows flying everywhere, I think there were few fights that went by without her voicing her concern about being kind of on the brink of death again.

engineer-errant

2011-11-23, 05:12 AM

Also, Luna. I swear no other character jumps from one emotion to another quite as happily and erratically as her. I seriously sometimes can't believe she's not supposed to be insane.

Especially since I, uh, assume Luna started the conversation, probably. Meaning she must have just ****ing dumped everything that happened in the last three arcs on Jayden jumping from one of those weird faces she makes to another every two sentences in the process, probably doing sound effects too, and only after all that stopped to ask how life's been treating her dear childhood friend after she went through a traumatic break-up and got kicked out of the Winter Archipelago, where I'm pretty sure she lived and worked permanently, by her ex.

THE BESTEST CHARACTER.

I wish Mookie had this level of awareness. All the stupid plot summary could have been compressed down to one or two strips of Luna rambling at Jayden, with some level of comedy provided via schadenfreude at Jayden's suffering.

Coidzor

2011-11-23, 05:28 AM

Is... Luna trying to hook up Jayden and Celesto? :smallconfused:

If it's unpleasant and nonsensical, the answer is usually yes.

M84

2011-11-23, 06:09 AM

Baldur's Gate stuff:
Killing Kangaxx with the Mace of Disruption came up...you can do that? I really don't know, the game is funny when it comes to documenting what a weapon can hit sometimes and I always assumed it's a +2 weapon (and that the instant kill effect only triggers on potentially damaging - even if it's 0 damage - hits).
I thought it came down to traps, Ring of the Ram, Melf's Minute Meteors, Flame Tongue, that vanilla +4 staff, and now that I think of it there's the Cloak of Stars as well I guess?
Truth be told I usually don't even get the mace upgraded since I give the illithium to the artist. I almost always choose XP over items, no matter how good the trade-off is.
And I try to have Athkatla lich-free - very much not counting Shangalar - before I get involved in the guild war and hit level 7 spells (mage and priest both) for a challenge. The Sword Coast Stratagems mod does make that pretty hard, though.

Once you dispel the ever-annoying Protection from Magical Weapons enchantment, Kangaxx is ridiculously easy to kill with the upgraded Mace of Disruption thanks to his terrible Will Save. If you've gone far enough in the plot, the Slayer form can solo him too.

I suddenly realized the Jayden arc is going to be terrible because Luna will definitely play a big role in it, being Jayden's apparent best friend. I'm just glad Greg got over his crush on Jayden meaning he probably won't be in this arc too.

Coidzor

2011-11-23, 06:13 AM

I'm just glad Greg got over his crush on Jayden meaning he probably won't be in this arc too.

Nah, Greg's sort of the Popsicle Pete of DD. None of you are safe indeed.

Castel

2011-11-23, 06:38 AM

Is it just me, or does Jayden looks remarkably like MetalGreg to anyone else?

AgentofOdd

2011-11-23, 06:49 AM

Sneaky Gate (http://dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111123.gif)
Future Link (http://dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-23)Wait, Luna is still in sex city right? Why would the church put a woman who's been hurt by the people she loved in a place where love and debauchery is everywhere? Are we going to find out that Jaydan requested a transfer there, (through interpretive dance I'm guessing) so that she could have some meaningless sex?

rocketpony

2011-11-23, 07:35 AM

How's the king going to defend himself!? A TWO PART INSTALLMENT.

Part one:

"I literally had absolutely nothing to do with that. The entire thing was done by a goofball chaos mage. A goofball chaos mage who blew up an entire town, and who the main characters are HOLDING INDEFINITELY WITHOUT WARRANT. The people cry out for justice, Deegans! How long will you crush them beneath your heel in contempt?"

Part two:

"I want you to think very carefully about the testimony coming from a known black witch, who was once possessed by vile piggart magic. When you walked in to the middle of a fight, you saw three warped and defaced battlecasters trying to fend off a chaos mage and struggling beneath the onslaught of two mutinous comrades. These mutinous comrades have been shipped to Aberthast cathedral, conveniently cloaked in silence and mystery. The people cry out for answers! How long will the church deny them?"

M84

2011-11-23, 07:58 AM

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 08:18 AM

Wait, Luna is still in sex city right? Why would the church put a woman who's been hurt by the people she loved in a place where love and debauchery is everywhere? Are we going to find out that Jaydan requested a transfer there, (through interpretive dance I'm guessing) so that she could have some meaningless sex?
They're in Arkham Asylum I mean Aberhest Cathedral. New place! I've wanted to see in here for years!

Isn't Luna's assassin sister Barnet still here? Will she still be annoyed with Dom for torturing her in her mind and Luna for torturing her with her godawful round-the-world vacation stories?

Glass Mouse

2011-11-23, 08:19 AM

I'm just glad Greg got over his crush on Jayden meaning he probably won't be in this arc too.

Oh no! :smalleek:

Don't say stuff like that when Mookie has spent the last few years ripping them away from their respective S.O.s...

random11

2011-11-23, 08:27 AM

Oh no! :smalleek:

Don't say stuff like that when Mookie has spent the last few years ripping them away from their respective S.O.s...

It could be worse: Luna's sister is the wedding planner for the Deegans, the plan involves FaceBath as a band, MAGIC confetti and Jayden as the priest.

Oh, and the king is still invisible.

<runs away fast>

AgentofOdd

2011-11-23, 09:11 AM

They're in Arkham Asylum I mean Aberhest Cathedral. New place! I've wanted to see in here for years!True, but still, the last strip took place like 10 minutes after Celestro got some pretty serious head trauma (Blunt trauma is a thing now Mookie? :smallsigh:). Because of this, I can only assume Aberhest Cathedral is inside Erossus. I mean surely, an artist with Terraciano's experience would've indicated it took some time for Luna to get to the Cathedral if that wasn't the case no? So once again, one must wonder, why is Jayden in kinky free love city?

Traab

2011-11-23, 10:30 AM

Unfortunately the comic seems to act like one piddly little demonstration of self-control is enough.

Szark never acts like he shows any remorse for everything he did in his former life. His arcs seem to have more mopey about how no-one will accept him and how he'll never win Dominic's heart rather than all the atrocities he did. Heck, there's a point where he's joking about how he raped Bumper. That wouldn't be terrible per se if Szark was meant to be an unlikeable monster, but that's hardly the case at all.

The other big reason Szark wanting the quiet life is a massive piece of worldbuilding fail stemming from Mookie not putting any thought into the consequences of his characters actions, especially anything that doesn't directly involve a Deegan. Remember how Greg recently stove in the head of Celesto because the mean chaos mage once hurt his brother? Imagine how many people are rightfully pissed off with Szark. Szark is a duellist in a kingdom where death fights are legal, who made his name by killing scores of rich powerful men in rigged fights. It sounds like the entire ruling elite of Callan must have a relative killed by him at some point. You think they're going to accept "a demon made me do it" as an excuse? Why isn't Szark dead yet?

Edit: Argh I'm ranting on Szark again, c'mon comic why won't you upd... hey you did!
Sneaky Gate (http://dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111123.gif)
Future Link (http://dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-23)

Oh great, it's a self-parody arc. Or is it? I... I don't know if that's a good or bad thing anymore. :smalleek:

What you fail to understand is, callan works differently from our world. In callan, szark is considered awesome because he killed all those formerly rich and powerful people WITH A SWORD! Had he done it with magic, or a clever trap, then he would be slaughtered by enraged jocks all over the kingdom. But since he did it with a manly thing like sword swinging, its all good. The real balancing factor here is, yes, those dead guys likely had powerful friends. But once they died, szark became the owner of all their stuff. Noone cares about poor dead people, only the rich living ones who can do favors for them.

His reputation took a hit though, once he gave up all that money and admitted he was gay. Now he is sorta neutral on the overall badass of callan scale. He is a kickin sword fighter who will perforate you before you know whats happened, but he is also gay. So on the one hand, "Awesome! Swords!" On the other, "Ewwww, fruity!" This leads to an unpleasant seesaw effect on his popularity. And also puts limits on retribution. You dont want to try to kill the guy that kicked the ass of one of the greatest swordsmen in the world. It would be like trying to hire thugs to beat up bruce lee. If bruce lee was also a raging homosexual. You wont find many groups of thugs willing to go after that combination.

mwchase

2011-11-23, 10:47 AM

You wont find many groups of thugs willing to go after that combination.

And it's doubtful that you'd want to hire any group of thugs that would be willing.

Catch-69. :smallcool: I'm so sorry.

Anyway... here's a thought. If DD does end midway into next year, perhaps we could try to get Mookie interviewed, in a setting where he'd be forced to explain what he thought was happening. Because, near as I can tell, asking him questions just leads to inept lampshade hanging.

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 11:09 AM

I realised that I wouldn't even CHECK DD if I hadn't subscribed to this thread.

So here is the answer: Just unsubscribe if you want to quit.

Anyway:

I have total apathy for Jyadens Character. Im pretty sure that apathy will become hate by the time this arc is over.

And the Moustache joke was so nice its going to be worth doing for 3 weeks strait aint it?

Arakune

2011-11-23, 12:41 PM

And the Moustache joke was so nice its going to be worth doing for 3 weeks strait aint it?

If we're lucky, it will be only three weeks and not three months.

Remember Maltak?

Welf

2011-11-23, 12:48 PM

It's almost the end of the year, and this arc is basically over. The very idea that Mookie would end the year in the middle of an arc is simply outrageous. And the idea that he could fit a storyline into a mere month is equally outrageous; all storylines obviously need to have horrible pacing and last at least three months. Therefore, we need a short and pointless filler arc to end the year, allowing Mookie to start the next plot-stalling arc at the beginning of the new year.

"end of year"? :smalleek: I just realized much time had passed without anything happening.

So Jayden hasn't spoken a word in months in-universe and out. That already makes her more tolerable than most of the other characters. Shame it's still based on her relationship issues. Seriously, she needs to have character outside of her connections to Siggy and Milov.

You mean a relationship with another guy? That would make things even more unnecessarily complicated. And there is no other way to give her character, since she is a woman, and women are defined by their relationships to men. At least in DD world.

colonelslime

2011-11-23, 01:31 PM

You mean a relationship with another guy? That would make things even more unnecessarily complicated. And there is no other way to give her character, since she is a woman, and women are defined by their relationships to men. At least in DD world.

There's a panel that I can't be assed to find that has Luna saying something exactly confirming this; She the psychologically-damaged, deformed girlfriend of a oracular planar champion. If even the women define themselves in terms related to the closest male, who are we to argue. Even Miranda fits into this, since her character is little more than "Dominic's Ubermage Mother"

Bobikus

2011-11-23, 03:33 PM

Really do not want to see this become an actual Jayden arc here. The horrible misogyny is probably the worst thing about this comic, and will probably be back in full swing with an arc focused on a female "character."

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 03:34 PM

I hate Luna as a character and as a person but other then her, what misogyny is there?

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 04:02 PM

I hate Luna as a character and as a person but other then her, what misogyny is there?

.... Seriously? I guess you're not following the SA thread, since they were just talking about this. It boiled down to "the roles of women are defined by their relationships with men unless they are villains" and "any woman with ambition is a villain". Go read that, there's no point in me rehashing it. But I will say that the whole Greg only liking girls who don't wear revealing clothes but still like sex really bothered me personally. He wants his women demure and not confident or comfortable in their skin, but still want to please him through sex. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it really gives off this creepy vibe to me that kind of feels secret-sex-slave-ish?

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 04:06 PM

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 04:15 PM

I don't get it.

Like Jayden is a flat boring character, but isn't defined by Milov.

And so is Momma Luigi Deegan.

You say she is defined by being dominics ubermom, but I think she is simply defined by being an ubermom.

What about Lunas sister?

I think these characters are SO flat that any characteristic that defines them usualy covers 30% of thier character, thus giving off a look of male dependancy.

Other than Luna who is so wonderfull.

She's defined as the woman who was dating Milov, but cheated on him which led to her being to blame for everything. She took a vow of silence, apparently, over her interactions with men.

"Ubermom" is still a relationship with a man-- her husband, her sons. Her other, archmage-y stuff all seems like an afterthought to me, personally, after her mom-ness. And she still has no personality.

Which one of Luna's sisters?

You might be right about them having no character and so this becomes the case, but it still is true. They are dependent on males for exactly the reason you said, they have NOTHING ELSE. If they had personality outside of these facts, it probably wouldn't be a big deal-- at least not as big. If Jayden had a character of her own and a story of her own that wasn't centered around her relationship problems, this would just be a part of her. Instead, it's EVERYTHING. Your excuse is the actual problem!

Edit: Thought of this after I walked away: a good example of this is Katara from Avatar. Apparently, a lot of people say that Katara stopped being a strong female character when she got married and had kids. This is bull****. She was badass as ****, and was very much in control of her own life. She did not stand around in the sidelines or constantly get captured or fawn over Aang. She got **** done. Then, when she was done, she settled down and started a family. I think that's completely reasonable! Women AND men settle down and have kids.

If she had been an empty character before that, however, it would have been a problem. If her only purpose beyond "be the chick" were to get married and have kids, that would be a huge issue. But it's not, because she is someone besides that.

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 04:31 PM

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 04:34 PM

Huh. Look, Im always for bashing mookie, but only if justified. I remain of the opinion that these where a few bad coinsidences that just make the situation look bad.

I did notice that a trend of female characters lacking any other stereotypical traits of other male characters but I doubt thats intentional.

Such as Milov being Defined by being a wherewolf and having a relationship with Jayden.

But I totaly get your opinion.

And Katara got married? In fanfics or something?

It's never intentional. That's the point. Misogyny in media is very rarely intentional or recognized by the creator. These are not coincidences, they keep happening over years and years.

And um.. yes? Considering Korra is going to have her and Aang's son teaching Korra airbending? She and Aang got together at the end and had children.

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 04:41 PM

God dammit. Another check point to my list of being embarrassed by my own gender. I really do wish I was born a girl.

And oh yeah, I completly forgot about the Legend of Korra. Awesome.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 04:46 PM

Arsenal, remember Vasquez, Stunt's boss in the Walk the Wild Edge arc? I gave her that nickname because I thought she'd be the tough competent mercenary type like her namesake.

Remember what she did in that arc? Remember when Mookie decided to give her a name?

...yeah.

mwchase

2011-11-23, 04:47 PM

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 04:51 PM

Anyway, I don't know if this was already pointed out, or obvious, or what, but I think I know why Tessa is showing up again. It's the same reason Greg decided to take revenge for Dominic's leg: Mookie archive trawled, so now stuff from years ago is fresh in his mind, and he thinks maybe bringing up that stuff will recapture the relative magic of the comic's past. That's how it looks to me.

Like "People weren't complaining as much when I had Tessa around, I'll bring her back."
Kind of, but I suspect it's more Mookie though "I'd like to catch up with Jayden, what did she do last?", flipped back to Shadows of Siegfried, saw Tessa, and here we are.

You do however see more callbacks to the sections in the books he's preparing for print, so I wouldn't be surprised for some Snowsong callbacks in the next few months.

Traab

2011-11-23, 05:11 PM

Domochevsky

2011-11-23, 05:13 PM

...
Edit: Thought of this after I walked away: a good example of this is Katara from Avatar. Apparently, a lot of people say that Katara stopped being a strong female character when she got married and had kids. This is bull****. She was badass as ****, and was very much in control of her own life. She did not stand around in the sidelines or constantly get captured or fawn over Aang. She got **** done. Then, when she was done, she settled down and started a family. I think that's completely reasonable! Women AND men settle down and have kids.
...

...wait what? When did that happen? They were still (relative) teens at the end. And who's Korra? :smallconfused:

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 05:14 PM

What about lunas mom? She wasnt defined by any male. She was the she-beast aging enchantress who liked to think she was still hot, despite being 60 years old. Who got her kicks destroying one of her daughters emotionally in hopes she would commit suicide in a way that brought her profit. There is virtually no reference to a man at all aside from a brief comment on how she killed her husband I think.

Or take her lawyer sister, yes she is connected to serk braxis, but you could just as easily turn that around, serk is the balding merchant who is dating the travoria lawyer. Just because they have a connection to a man in some way doesnt automatically mean they are defined by them.

As far as jayden goes, i agree the vow of silence thing is pretty silly and could have been handled differently, but the basis for it makes at least some sense. Think about it. She is some priestess, and she fell in love with milov, then she cheated on him with their mutual best friend, said best friend ended up being an evil monster and got dragged to hell, only to return, expose her cheating in the worst way possible, and tried to kill everyone she cares about. Causing all sorts of personal issues between her and milov, each adding on an additional emotional burden. Id probably be pretty ^%$#$ up myself. Hell, people have suicided over less than what she has been through. So if this is how mookie wants to illustrate jaydens method of coping, or whatever her reason for silence is, then lets see just how horribly it plays out.

Those two are both villains, the point still stands. Read the SA discussion on it, I don't want to paraphrase.

I don't care that she took a vow of silence. It's just that her experience with those two men is her ENTIRE LIFE as far as we know it. We don't even know much about her being a priestess, honestly. It does define her completely.

Edit:

...wait what? When did that happen? They were still (relative) teens at the end. And who's Korra? :smallconfused:

You're really out of touch with the series, aren't you? Korra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_aRZaIiHE) is the next avatar after Aang. She learns airbending from his son, which seems to be the plot of the next series. The son of Aang and Katara. Meaning, they had kids. I think he has siblings, though I'm not really entirely up to date with information about the show.

Bobikus

2011-11-23, 05:22 PM

.But I will say that the whole Greg only liking girls who don't wear revealing clothes but still like sex really bothered me personally. He wants his women demure and not confident or comfortable in their skin, but still want to please him through sex. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it really gives off this creepy vibe to me that kind of feels secret-sex-slave-ish?

It's the whole Madonna vs Whore thing, taken to a creepier level with writers slut-shaming girls that are openly sexual but treating "modest with a hidden kinky side" in a fetish-induced way.

Also the problem isn't that all women in DD are defined by their relationship with men, it's that all the "good" women are, sans maybe Rachel, who is a rapist that fawns over guys with tragic pasts, and even Rachel is only really "Dom and Greg's friend" whenever she's not shown sleeping with someone.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 05:26 PM

I don't care that she took a vow of silence. It's just that her experience with those two men is her ENTIRE LIFE as far as we know it. We don't even know much about her being a priestess, honestly. It does define her completely.
She's like Rachel, who officially is a mercenary but only ever gets wheeled out to take Greg shopping (or to rape seers :smallsigh:).

Or Cassafin versus Runciple Spoon, and the defining traits that spring to mind when you think about those characters.

Bobikus

2011-11-23, 05:30 PM

She's like Rachel, who officially is a mercenary but only ever gets wheeled out to take Greg shopping (or to rape seers :smallsigh:).

Or Cassafin versus Runciple Spoon, and the defining traits that spring to mind when you think about those characters.

Even while archive trawling I sort of glossed over most academy stuff, but aside from "is a research professor" the only thing I can think of about Cassafin is her having sex with racist knight.

Domochevsky

2011-11-23, 05:35 PM

T...
You're really out of touch with the series, aren't you? Korra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_aRZaIiHE) is the next avatar after Aang. She learns airbending from his son, which seems to be the plot of the next series. The son of Aang and Katara. Meaning, they had kids. I think he has siblings, though I'm not really entirely up to date with information about the show.

Oh, this is something only in the making so far? Phew. Was wondering for a moment if they had put out a new series without me knowing. >_>

Edit, reaction to trailer: HOT DAMN! :O

TheArsenal

2011-11-23, 05:37 PM

Looking at the SA thread I realised that Shark teeth are mookies last resort in "Evilafying" characters such as siggy in the flashback.

Thats truly pathetic mookie.

Traab

2011-11-23, 06:35 PM

Even while archive trawling I sort of glossed over most academy stuff, but aside from "is a research professor" the only thing I can think of about Cassafin is her having sex with racist knight.

And the only thing I know about runcible is his head is detachable and he and his wife broke up because of that stupid elemental guy. These characters are side characters. Jayden is a side character, she isnt supposed to be fully fleshed out with a well known history, that only changes once we get a side arc centered on someone. We will probably learn a bit more about her if this arc centers around her. But like all side characters, we know very little about them. Ill list some examples of side characters we know/knew little about until their personal side arcs.

Nimmel. Until we had his personal side arc, (sorta like whats going to happen now with jayden) all we knew about him was he has one eye after the infernomancer attack, and he is good at seasonal magic.

Milov. Until the nimmel arc and some other random tidbits related to it, all we knew about him was he was a spellwolf. We didnt even know what the hell that meant except that he could apparently get fuzzy and cancel lunas fireball. Oh, and he was dating jayden.

Bumper/Stunt. All we knew about them was they were thieves obsessed with stealing from a seer, (which made them morons) and one was more violent and hated women while the other was more kind.

You see? Until we had arcs dedicated to them in some way, all these characters were flat and one dimensional. Jayden is that way because we have yet to have a side arc dedicated to her and her past like the above mentioned characters. Hopefully that will change now. We might get to learn more about her past, her personality, her motivations, etc.

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 06:47 PM

And the only thing I know about runcible is his head is detachable and he and his wife broke up because of that stupid elemental guy. These characters are side characters. Jayden is a side character, she isnt supposed to be fully fleshed out with a well known history, that only changes once we get a side arc centered on someone. We will probably learn a bit more about her if this arc centers around her. But like all side characters, we know very little about them. Ill list some examples of side characters we know/knew little about until their personal side arcs.

Nimmel. Until we had his personal side arc, (sorta like whats going to happen now with jayden) all we knew about him was he has one eye after the infernomancer attack, and he is good at seasonal magic.

Milov. Until the nimmel arc and some other random tidbits related to it, all we knew about him was he was a spellwolf. We didnt even know what the hell that meant except that he could apparently get fuzzy and cancel lunas fireball. Oh, and he was dating jayden.

Bumper/Stunt. All we knew about them was they were thieves obsessed with stealing from a seer, (which made them morons) and one was more violent and hated women while the other was more kind.

You see? Until we had arcs dedicated to them in some way, all these characters were flat and one dimensional. Jayden is that way because we have yet to have a side arc dedicated to her and her past like the above mentioned characters. Hopefully that will change now. We might get to learn more about her past, her personality, her motivations, etc.

Alright, then. Let's watch Jayden become a powerful character with real motivation and ambition and personality. I'm sure you're perfectly correct and not overestimating Mookie at all.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Bobikus

2011-11-23, 06:52 PM

Also you reminded me just how bad Mookie is at fleshing out characters in general :(

Traab

2011-11-23, 06:56 PM

Alright, then. Let's watch Jayden become a powerful character with real motivation and ambition and personality. I'm sure you're perfectly correct and not overestimating Mookie at all.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Heh, im not saying she will become powerful, im saying that we will have more info on her than just, "She is milovs ex girlfriend and banged siggy. Oh, and she is apparently a priestess." That was the main complaint about her. That the only way to describe her was the men she was connected with. And my response was, "Of course thats all we know, she hasnt had her side arc yet."

ichini_sanshigo

2011-11-23, 07:05 PM

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 07:07 PM

Traab

2011-11-23, 07:15 PM

(@ Traab)

The point still stands, though. All we knew about Cassafin is that she was a professor who ****ed a knight. The male characters would be comparable if:

... all we knew about Nimmel was that he was Luna's long lost brother.
... all we knew about Milov was that he was Jayden's boyfriend - if we never actually saw him doing spellwolf stuff or doing leadership things.
... all we knew about Bumper/Stunt was that they were Mama Travoria's boy toys who only went after Dom because she told them to.

The point is not simply that the "good" female characters are flat. Everyone not of First Caste is flat. The problem is that female characters can't even be flat without being defined in some way by their relationship with a man.

Jayden could be a less terrible example of this if we saw her doing something unrelated to the whole Milov/Siggy debacle. If maybe we saw her being passionate about work at the church, counseling people or something. Or maybe if we saw her relationships with other members of her order. Or even if we knew that she had any interests outside of religion and her failed relationships.

And on that tangent, hobbies and interests are a nice, incredible easy way to give your characters some sort of depth. Pick any character from Homestuck and I can name at least two interests of theirs not directly related to the plot, yet still help inform their personality. Terraciano's been running this comic for over 9 years and I can barely even do that for the main characters, let alone side characters. Seriously, what are Dom's interests besides meddling with his seer powers and researching stuff related to magic?

But thats the kind of thing we didnt find out about any of them until AFTER they had a side arc to go into their characters more. You mention cassafin. What do we know about runcible spoon? He is a researcher, and had marital problems due to neilen or whatever his name was. Thats it. What do we know about cassafain? She is a researcher, and she likes stress relieving sex with hunky knights. Neither of them are exactly deeply described.

We didnt know jack squat about nimmel until he had his arc except he had one eye and knew snow based magic.

We didnt know jack squat about milov except he was a spellwolf and dating jayden until we went to his home town with nimmel and learned more. In other words, the exact same level of information we had on jayden, except part of his characterization was that he was connected to a girl! *gasp*

And thats pretty much all we knew about bumper and stunt until that arc in barthis. And they have had WAY more face time than jayden ever has.

And you know what? We are likely going to see that stuff about jayden you want. At least to some extent. Im sure there will be focus on milov, but if this is a jayden central arc, we are going to learn more about her. I just dont get the problem here. We are going to have an arc that centers around jayden somehow, why not wait to complain about how flat of a character she is until AFTER we get her backstory? Or did you also gripe about milov and his blank slate info before we learned about him too?

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 07:19 PM

But thats the kind of thing we didnt find out about any of them until AFTER they had a side arc to go into their characters more. You mention cassafin. What do we know about runcible spoon? He is a researcher, and had marital problems due to neilen or whatever his name was. Thats it. What do we know about cassafain? She is a researcher, and she likes stress relieving sex with hunky knights. Neither of them are exactly deeply described.

We didnt know jack squat about nimmel until he had his arc except he had one eye and knew snow based magic.

We didnt know jack squat about milov except he was a spellwolf and dating jayden until we went to his home town with nimmel and learned more. In other words, the exact same level of information we had on jayden, except part of his characterization was that he was connected to a girl! *gasp*

And thats pretty much all we knew about bumper and stunt until that arc in barthis. And they have had WAY more face time than jayden ever has.

And you know what? We are likely going to see that stuff about jayden you want. At least to some extent. Im sure there will be focus on milov, but if this is a jayden central arc, we are going to learn more about her. I just dont get the problem here. We are going to have an arc that centers around jayden somehow, why not wait to complain about how flat of a character she is until AFTER we get her backstory? Or did you also gripe about milov and his blank slate info before we learned about him too?

Wait, I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't we find out very quickly about how he lost his eye? We found out about how he reacted in that dire situation, and he was ashamed of what he'd done. I could be remembering him more fleshed out than what happened, but I thought he had quite a good bit of himself shown before the side arc, which I never actually read.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 07:21 PM

@Traab: Explain Vasquez. And if your reaction is "Vasquez who?", that also proves the point. :smallamused:

Edit: Does DD have a strip that passes the Bechdel Test*? I'm thinking with nine years under its belt it must somehow managed to scrape through somewhere, but I'm really not 100% sure.

* Bechdel Test: (1) it has to have at least two women in it, who (2) who talk to each other, about (3) something besides a man.

Editx2: This one where two Travoria sisters talk about keeping the Travoria family together (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-04-24) would almost count if they didn't start off the conversation talking about exploding boyfriends. So close.

Seriously, what are Dom's interests besides meddling with his seer powers and researching stuff related to magic?
If Dominic didn't have nonsensical arcs thrown at him, what would he do with his life? He doesn't have a job or any aspirations. Without Beasts popping up to actively ignore he'd probably marry Luna and sponge off her researcher earnings for the rest of his life.

Bobikus

2011-11-23, 07:27 PM

Part of this is Mookie following in the bad habit of substituting "character arcs" instead of real organic characterization.

averagejoe

2011-11-23, 10:29 PM

EDIT: double post due to forum glitching

You can go into the edit screen and at the top there's an option to delete a post.

The last time we saw Jayden was in Shadows, right?

Man, this is gonna be fun.

Traab

2011-11-23, 10:55 PM

Wait, I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't we find out very quickly about how he lost his eye? We found out about how he reacted in that dire situation, and he was ashamed of what he'd done. I could be remembering him more fleshed out than what happened, but I thought he had quite a good bit of himself shown before the side arc, which I never actually read.

Im not sure, I thought we didnt find out about the exact back story of the infernomancer confrontation until a nimmel house or whatever his arc was titled.

@Traab: Explain Vasquez. And if your reaction is "Vasquez who?", that also proves the point.

Im... honestly not sure what im supposed to explain. She was a hardass, she got stabbed by her teammates, stunt saved her, and then they left. A somewhat ham handed "moral" about people pretending to be tougher than they are and bobs your uncle.

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 11:14 PM

Im not sure, I thought we didnt find out about the exact back story of the infernomancer confrontation until a nimmel house or whatever his arc was titled.

Well, I know I didn't read A Nimmel House. And I know his back story. And I definitely didn't do any research. *shrug*

Hiro Protagonest

2011-11-23, 11:18 PM

Oh, this is something only in the making so far? Phew. Was wondering for a moment if they had put out a new series without me knowing. >_>

Edit, reaction to trailer: HOT DAMN! :O

Also, I have good news and bad news.

The good: Dark Horse is continuing the main story as a comic book series.

The bad: They're postponing Legend of Korra to 2013.

Also, that's a trailer? I thought that was her wiki page.

*watches*

Isn't that the song they used when Aang destroyed the giant drill? That was some pretty good music.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 11:23 PM

Im... honestly not sure what im supposed to explain. She was a hardass, she got stabbed by her teammates, stunt saved her, and then they left. A somewhat ham handed "moral" about people pretending to be tougher than they are and bobs your uncle.
If by "hardass" you mean "subservient despite nominally being in charge of a ruthless gang of poachers" (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2010-07-14), then yes, she was. :smalltongue:

Despite Vasquez being the one who set the poachers off on their little hunting trip, she quickly gets demoted in story to "the girl". She quickly loses her authority (see link), gets stabbed for no good reason to show how evil the real antagonist is, gets carted around as the victim and is the only one spared by the hero.

And it's really damn weird how she was never given a name until the very last strip in the arc.

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 11:43 PM

If by "hardass" you mean "subservient despite nominally being in charge of a ruthless gang of poachers" (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2010-07-14), then yes, she was. :smalltongue:

Despite Vasquez being the one who set the poachers off on their little hunting trip, she quickly gets demoted in story to "the girl". She quickly loses her authority (see link), gets stabbed for no good reason to show how evil the real antagonist is, gets carted around as the victim and is the only one spared by the hero.

And it's really damn weird how she was never given a name until the very last strip in the arc.

I KNEW I WASN'T GOING CRAZY. Your avatar keeps zooming further in!

Coidzor

2011-11-23, 11:49 PM

Well, I know I didn't read A Nimmel House. And I know his back story. And I definitely didn't do any research. *shrug*

Lucky.

I KNEW I WASN'T GOING CRAZY. Your avatar keeps zooming further in!

That's ominous. Only those he chooses can see that.

And no one quite knows what happens when it zooms all the way in.

Some say that he can see you. The real you.

But no one who has experienced this has ever shared what happens next.

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 11:54 PM

I KNEW I WASN'T GOING CRAZY. Your avatar keeps zooming further in!
Ha! My plan to replace my avatar with the eagle is already complete!

Toast1862

2011-11-23, 11:55 PM

Coidzor

2011-11-23, 11:59 PM

Trazoi

2011-11-23, 11:59 PM

Wait, I just realized something.

The comic isn't updating tonight, right? Because tomorrow's Thanksgiving so he wants to relax. But. Um. He uploads them the night before/early morning. We know this very well. So... shouldn't... Friday have no strip........?
I never really got that either. It makes a bit of sense for Thanksgiving or Christmas where you've got to a lot of baking the night before, but doesn't make any sense at all for birthdays or any holidays without a lot of preparation.

Edit: Oh geez, I was digging around in one of the earlier thread for our initial reaction to Vasquez and I found this:

Not really; that's actually what I wanted. I've lost my connection with the characters, so all I've got left to catch my interest (apart from the snark) is a handful of dangling plot points; what will they do about Snuggly, what's up with Celesto, and what is the enigmatic half-faceless King of Callan doing?

I'd rather have a plot arc than another "wacky" side-plot filler.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Toast1862

2011-11-24, 01:15 AM

Oh my.

Sneaky Gate #1 (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111124.gif)
Future Link (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-24)

Sneaky Gate #2 (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111125.gif)
Future Link (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-25)

So someone finally gets lasting consequences that they have to work through somewhat realistically.... and it's a redshirt. Also, that moustache is not sweet.

Trazoi

2011-11-24, 01:27 AM

It's the fault of this fan art. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/images/fandeegancomic61.jpg) Either Mookie didn't get it, or he got it all too well. :smallfrown:

Edit: Why are Tessa's clothes falling off in the last panel? Is that the Friday cliffhanger?

random11

2011-11-24, 01:43 AM

Ok, let's gamble: Until they leave this place, how many times are we going to hear the word "mustache"?

TheArsenal

2011-11-24, 01:47 AM

Mookie- Tension does not work that way. Go back to your room and try again!

And hur****ing rah! More moustache ****.

Toast1862

2011-11-24, 01:48 AM

Ok, let's gamble: Until they leave this place, how many times are we going to hear the word "mustache"?

Does this count the number so far? And only inside the Cathedral? Then we're at one so far.... I'm going to bet on six because he keeps referencing it without saying moustache outright.

Bobikus

2011-11-24, 01:59 AM

Jayden's face in panel 8 is the redeeming part of this strip.

Lord Raziere

2011-11-24, 02:48 AM

*Growls* At least he acknowledges that the more seriously mutated people won't be cured as fast as Mustache...

T-O-E

2011-11-24, 03:08 AM

Looking at the SA thread I realised that Shark teeth are mookies last resort in "Evilafying" characters such as siggy in the flashback.

Thats truly pathetic mookie.

I was reading Shadows of Siegfried and it annoyed me how he always developed into a ridiculous form in his projections, with black eyes and a malevolent grin. If Mookie had, say, made him look normal and gave him a slight smile as he's doing all these horrible things, the effect would've been a lot better. It's conflict and you wouldn't be beating the fact that he's evil over the reader's heads, although that might have been his intention.

It's about subtlety, Mookie.

Johnny Blade

2011-11-24, 03:09 AM

As soon as Jayden heard that Tessa was being all optimistic, she jumped up and sprinted behind her so she could look into the camera, presenting the saddest face, at the appropriate moment.

Luna is still in the next room, rambling on and on about all the exciting things that have happened to her in front of a growing audience of Luanian novices fascinated by the erratic distortions of her physiognomy.
An exorcist was called but told not to hurry.

T-O-E

2011-11-24, 03:18 AM

Bobikus

2011-11-24, 03:37 AM

Well, it's better than orc save. It'd be a lot better if Mervin's response to the mustache thing was less manchildy and full of joy, to show that he actually cares about his friend's well-being. Probably much better than any other dramatic comic in DD though, so baby steps.

And is it just me or does Bort have more correct anatomy than anyone else? Y'know the mutant freak.

His mutant side eye looks more like a human eye than the standard Dominion Ape eye. (In the comics he's in I mean, don't feel like looking at the filler again.)

TheArsenal

2011-11-24, 03:54 AM

You know after watching a really good review of Jack and Jill by half in the bag, it did sort of open up that there are things worse than the bottom of the barrel. Its when something stops realy being a movie and more like just a random mish mash of crap.

Watch the review, its great.

But anyway, does anybody else think that DD has reached a similar point?

That its no longer at the bottom of the barrel. Its just so lazy its the apple that people forgot to put into the barrel altogether.

Shogo

2011-11-24, 07:12 AM

A bit delayed, but I'm kind of laughing at how pathetic Jayden is.

I guess someone could think it harsh, but not I. Not I.

-----------

That mustache is also bad. But then again, the only facial hair configuration I've ever thought looked halfway decent was the goatee. (In the name of Kane!)

Cen

2011-11-24, 08:02 AM

Soo any particular reason why nurse/nun is discussing mediacl condition of one of her patients with another one? privacy protection anyone?

colonelslime

2011-11-24, 08:25 AM

Soo any particular reason why nurse/nun is discussing mediacl condition of one of her patients with another one? privacy protection anyone?

Patient? Oh, you mean the red shirt!
Silly Cen, rights are for people (Deegans) not red shirts. Next you'll want to start giving them last names or something.

Trazoi

2011-11-24, 08:43 AM

Watch the review, its great.

But anyway, does anybody else think that DD has reached a similar point?
Nope, but that movie was a low point for a lot of reasons other than laziness. For all its faults, Dominic Deegan is still a webcomic rather than a commercial. Mookie isn't ripping anyone off. He makes his money from ads that are properly priced with Project Wonderful and from selling books to fans who want what they'll get. Mookie deserves what he earns.

Plus the horrible truth about the medium of webcomics is that the bottom of the barrel is always a lot lower than you think.

About the comic: why is Dominic also wearing a patient gown? :smallconfused:

Kizor

2011-11-24, 08:50 AM

And is it just me or does Bort have more correct anatomy than anyone else? Y'know the mutant freak.

The bar may be lower. Much like Mass Effect 1 has some creepy, off-model humans but excellent non-humans, since we don't know what a Krogan is supposed to look like.

An exorcist was called but told not to hurry.

This is the best line in the history of anything ever and I may have to start using a signature just to include it.

Mr. McGician

2011-11-24, 10:03 AM

I thought "sweet... mustache... Mervin" was genuinely funny. Or maybe I just laughed because I watched the Muppets last night so I'm in the mode of laughing at something every thirty seconds.

Garland

2011-11-24, 10:35 AM

Uh guys why is everyone dressed as a clown

T-O-E

2011-11-24, 12:04 PM

I thought "sweet... mustache... Mervin" was genuinely funny. Or maybe I just laughed because I watched the Muppets last night so I'm in the mode of laughing at something every thirty seconds.

That line isn't bad. It's Mervin's reaction to it. If he had acted like a compassionate human being, it could have been touching, instead of a crappy joke which destroys the drama.

Zaq

2011-11-24, 12:10 PM

That line isn't bad. It's Mervin's reaction to it. If he had acted like a compassionate human being, it could have been touching, instead of a crappy joke which destroys the drama.

Oh god, Celesto was right! The only humanity the cattleblasters have left is an act! They're monsters! Monsters!

TheLaughingMan

2011-11-24, 12:47 PM

Uh guys why is everyone dressed as a clown

They aren't usually?

Traab

2011-11-24, 02:28 PM

That line isn't bad. It's Mervin's reaction to it. If he had acted like a compassionate human being, it could have been touching, instead of a crappy joke which destroys the drama.

Even if he had said those exact same words with a different expression, almost a bittersweet type of expression on his face, that could have saved it. It would have shown that he is deeply concerned about his partner, but willing to go along with his attempts to at least TRY to act like things are going to be fine.

T-O-E

2011-11-24, 02:37 PM

Oh God, Mookie has ruined moustaches :smallfrown:

Domochevsky

2011-11-24, 03:31 PM

Oh God, Mookie has ruined moustaches :smallfrown:

At least he's thorough. Siggy was first. Now he's finishing off Warlord Mustache. There's a certain ruthless efficiency to his methods that i can get behind. :smallcool:

Welf

2011-11-24, 03:35 PM

Even while archive trawling I sort of glossed over most academy stuff, but aside from "is a research professor" the only thing I can think of about Cassafin is her having sex with racist knight.

Actually I think Cassafin is the only femal not defined by a relationship to a guy. The sex thing was rather short, and she was established before that. She has a job, friends, and accomplished two things, becoming head mistress and sending help to the orcs, or at least trying to. That's a lot for a Deegan character.

Oh my.

Sneaky Gate #1 (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111124.gif)
Future Link (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-24)

Sneaky Gate #2 (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111125.gif)
Future Link (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-25)

So someone finally gets lasting consequences that they have to work through somewhat realistically.... and it's a redshirt. Also, that moustache is not sweet.

That again proves my point Marvin is the main protagonist. He suffers consequences!

That line isn't bad. It's Mervin's reaction to it. If he had acted like a compassionate human being, it could have been touching, instead of a crappy joke which destroys the drama.

Maybe he just tries to cheer up a friend in need?

Even if he had said those exact same words with a different expression, almost a bittersweet type of expression on his face, that could have saved it. It would have shown that he is deeply concerned about his partner, but willing to go along with his attempts to at least TRY to act like things are going to be fine.

Maybe he does show such a face? With Mookie's limited drawing skills you don't know for sure.

T-O-E

2011-11-24, 03:35 PM

Was being eaten by a piggart lover and stuck in a very unpleasant digestive tract before being blown up and subsequently eaten by your only son not enough?

Apparently not.

Trazoi

2011-11-24, 04:19 PM

Actually I think Cassafin is the only femal not defined by a relationship to a guy. The sex thing was rather short, and she was established before that. She has a job, friends, and accomplished two things, becoming head mistress and sending help to the orcs, or at least trying to. That's a lot for a Deegan character.
The problem with Cassafin (as with many other DD characters) is when you try to use the Plinkett Star Wars Character Challenge on them: "Describe the following Star Wars DD character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what the profession or role in the movie webcomic was. Describe this character to your friends like they ain't never seen Star Wars DD."

With Cassafin, all I've got apart from vague stuff like "she's... smart? I guess?" is "she likes to sleep with buff dudes".

She also suffers from what Mayor Pam does, as do many other DD characters, in that it's rarely hinted that they do anything that doesn't involve a Deegan. You never see Cassafin or Pam arranging meetings with foreign vistors to discuss finances or stuff like that, and if you did it would have to involve Dominic or his villain of the week in some way. It's part of how the Deeganverse appears like Dominic's own personal playground rather than a living world.

Garland

2011-11-24, 04:56 PM

They aren't usually?

I don't know, but ALL OF THEM ARE NOW

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x479/vhoyosm/haaheehoo.png

edit: Jayden is actually a mime in disguise.

Welf

2011-11-24, 05:22 PM

The problem with Cassafin (as with many other DD characters) is when you try to use the Plinkett Star Wars Character Challenge on them: "Describe the following Star Wars DD character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what the profession or role in the movie webcomic was. Describe this character to your friends like they ain't never seen Star Wars DD."

With Cassafin, all I've got apart from vague stuff like "she's... smart? I guess?" is "she likes to sleep with buff dudes".

She also suffers from what Mayor Pam does, as do many other DD characters, in that it's rarely hinted that they do anything that doesn't involve a Deegan. You never see Cassafin or Pam arranging meetings with foreign vistors to discuss finances or stuff like that, and if you did it would have to involve Dominic or his villain of the week in some way. It's part of how the Deeganverse appears like Dominic's own personal playground rather than a living world.

Hm, she focuses on her career, both on scientific achievement and getting up the career ladder, has an active sexual live but no relationship, and uses her position to engage in social activities.

TheArsenal

2011-11-24, 05:31 PM

Hm, she focuses on her career, both on scientific achievement and getting up the career ladder, has an active sexual live but no relationship, and uses her position to engage in social activities.

Thats not her character. Thats her actions.

Might as well say Anikins character is swinging a sword around.

Trazoi

2011-11-24, 05:45 PM

I don't know, but ALL OF THEM ARE NOW

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x479/vhoyosm/haaheehoo.png

edit: Jayden is actually a mime in disguise.
Does anyone else think if Mookie spent 15 minutes slapping on some basic newspaper style colours the strip would be considerably improved? Especially if he isn't going to bother with backgrounds.

Hm, she focuses on her career, both on scientific achievement and getting up the career ladder, has an active sexual live but no relationship, and uses her position to engage in social activities.
I'll grant "career focused" but that's it apart from "boinks buff dudes".

Of course it's unfair picking Cassafin because she's a minor character, but the major characters don't fare much better.

Dominic: gruff & grouchy dominating know-it-all who has to get his own way.
Luna: emotional doormat completely centered on her boyfriend.
Greg: I give up.

Traab

2011-11-24, 05:50 PM

Arrogant, powerful, generally right, but is sometimes wrong in a BIG way. Major albus dumbledoore complex, in that he seems to think its up to him to save the world from everything, and because of that, its his right to control everyone else and the fact that things generally work out as he wants them too is just proof that its ok to do that.

random11

2011-11-24, 09:00 PM

She also suffers from what Mayor Pam does, as do many other DD characters, in that it's rarely hinted that they do anything that doesn't involve a Deegan. You never see Cassafin or Pam arranging meetings with foreign vistors to discuss finances or stuff like that, and if you did it would have to involve Dominic or his villain of the week in some way. It's part of how the Deeganverse appears like Dominic's own personal playground rather than a living world.

That rule is good for major characters, but Pam is, at best, a supporting character.

We know she handles bureaucratic crap, and that's about it, but what do we NEED to know about her?
Even if it was an interesting comic, would we want the story to focus on diplomatic difficulties that has nothing to do with the hero or the genre of the story?

About Pam, with the interactions she had with different characters, we know she cares about the people she is in charge of, and keeps the laws even in cases she doesn't like it.
She is not really an interesting side character, but at least she doesn't suffer from bi-polar behavior like most other side characters.

Coidzor

2011-11-24, 09:33 PM

Greg: I give up.

Schizophrenic in outlook, vapid, and mercurial.

Trazoi

2011-11-24, 09:57 PM

That rule is good for major characters, but Pam is, at best, a supporting character.

We know she handles bureaucratic crap, and that's about it, but what do we NEED to know about her?
Even if it was an interesting comic, would we want the story to focus on diplomatic difficulties that has nothing to do with the hero or the genre of the story?
What I mean is the supporting characters should appear to have lives outside the comic, especially ones with positions of authority like Pam. As Mayor, Pam is Barthis. She should be involved with whatever the town is. Really she should be featured in a lot more stories, because thinking about what Pam could be up to as Mayor of Barthis that could blossom into a full arc storyline is pretty easy. Have a festival, introduce a new tax or law (Built to Resist warning!), have another election, etc. Part of what made Two Thief interesting was that Eddie was against Barthis rather than the Deegans personally.

On another topic, I skimmed through Walk the Wild Edge again and good gravy is that bad on re-read through. I think it's the worst arc in the entire comic. It has all the problems of the current arcs, namely how everything runs on cliches but with full detatchment from making sense but even more so, resulting in the moral story underneath it being a horrible twisted mockery.

But it's still very close to the current arcs in nonsensicalness, which is why DD has little appeal left. At least with earlier arcs things would get mixed up so there was a different set of problems on display. For the last year or so it's more a constant feeling that there's no thought into the writing at all.

Bobikus

2011-11-24, 10:51 PM

It would not be difficult at all to at least show characters doing other things, even in the background, or have Pam be in the middle of something else when people run into her.

Part of the problem I think is that Terracciano uses a terrible combination of tiny panels and large lettering, making it near impossible to have background action, or even action + substantial dialogue in the same panel.

TheArsenal

2011-11-25, 01:30 AM

Saying something like "Pam wen't to a convention" or something like that isn't hard.

random11

2011-11-25, 01:57 AM

What I mean is the supporting characters should appear to have lives outside the comic, especially ones with positions of authority like Pam. As Mayor, Pam is Barthis. She should be involved with whatever the town is. Really she should be featured in a lot more stories, because thinking about what Pam could be up to as Mayor of Barthis that could blossom into a full arc storyline is pretty easy. Have a festival, introduce a new tax or law (Built to Resist warning!), have another election, etc. Part of what made Two Thief interesting was that Eddie was against Barthis rather than the Deegans personally.

We are in a comic where the MAIN VILLAIN does not appear when he should, and he is both an important character and a freaking king who rules everything.

compared to the king (and many other characters) Pam is a well developed support character that appears very often.

engineer-errant

2011-11-25, 02:10 AM

We are in a comic where the MAIN VILLAIN does not appear when he should, and he is both an important character and a freaking king who rules everything.

compared to the king (and many other characters) Pam is a well developed support character that appears very often.

The problems with DD are so extensive that you pretty much have to critique each one individually, because it is almost unsalvageable without restarting from the basic premise.

Lord Raziere

2011-11-25, 03:20 AM

yea, the badness of this comic actually inspired me to go make an oracle protagonist that I hope will actually do well. I mean the interesting idea of the comic is that the protagonist is an oracle, in execution it ended up with this train wreck.

I ended up making the oracle a goblin, making him an inspector for a city guard, and giving him an orc investigator partner, and now they are a police noir fantasy duo. I'm thinking that the oracle goblin would actually be cautious and responsible about using his powers, and that there would be various sensible rules and conditions about the future sight so as to limit its power and make things interesting.

Gez

2011-11-25, 06:03 AM

I don't know, but ALL OF THEM ARE NOW

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x479/vhoyosm/haaheehoo.png

edit: Jayden is actually a mime in disguise.

This is the best thing. All hospital gown scenes should be like this.

Cen

2011-11-25, 11:33 AM

Guys! we're discussing this one strip for 2 days now! what will be doing whole weekend?

ichini_sanshigo

2011-11-25, 12:30 PM

Well, Lord Raziere actually beat me to the punch, but I wanted to suggest posting your ideas for rebooting the comic. As engineer-errant says, this comic is pretty much unsalveagable.

A common accusation leveled at Mookie is that he has good ideas but fails spectacularly in their execution. I think the bare bones framework of his setting is pretty solid and versatile and was imagining different characters in place of Terraciano's. Even his characters would be okay, but they would need to be developed beyond the Sues and stand-ins that they are.

The rules:

1. Same basic generic fantasy setting. Magic is real, yadda yadda. The magic must be systematic, however. You're free to elaborate on magic rules and guidelines as you like, but there must be rules and guidelines. Could be D&D based, could be anything else.

2. Nations and other species are the same, but you may add others. That is to say, there is a Maltak, Werewolf Archipelago (is that seriously the name of their nation?), Semash, etc. Callan is still a monarchy but you may elaborate on the government since Mookie never saw fit to do so.

3. Characters do not have to be the same. There must be an "Oracle for Hire". What that means is up to you. Said oracle could be, but doesn't have to be Dominic. OCs totally welcome.

Anyone game?

Domochevsky

2011-11-25, 12:32 PM

Guys! we're discussing this one strip for 2 days now! what will be doing whole weekend?

Hey, you opened that calendar door early. Now you gotta deal with it. :smallwink:

Voice of Reason

2011-11-25, 01:06 PM

At least he's thorough. Siggy was first. Now he's finishing off Warlord Mustache. There's a certain ruthless efficiency to his methods that i can get behind. :smallcool:

That was the one thing I really took away from this comic: how much Mervin looks like young Warlord Mustache in panel seven, even down to that one-side-of-the-mustache-turned-up-slightly-higher-than-the-other-to-show-depth thing.

Garland

2011-11-25, 01:26 PM

I'm sure many of you have wondered, as have I, what would Dominic Deegan be like if everyone was a snake. (http://gunshowcomic.com/460)

*ssssee the truth

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x479/vhoyosm/DominicSnakegan.png

Welf

2011-11-25, 01:55 PM

Does anyone else think if Mookie spent 15 minutes slapping on some basic newspaper style colours the strip would be considerably improved? Especially if he isn't going to bother with backgrounds.

I'll grant "career focused" but that's it apart from "boinks buff dudes".

Of course it's unfair picking Cassafin because she's a minor character, but the major characters don't fare much better.

I never said any other character would do better. Cassafin is to me just the extreme outlier.

Well, Lord Raziere actually beat me to the punch, but I wanted to suggest posting your ideas for rebooting the comic. As engineer-errant says, this comic is pretty much unsalveagable.

A common accusation leveled at Mookie is that he has good ideas but fails spectacularly in their execution. I think the bare bones framework of his setting is pretty solid and versatile and was imagining different characters in place of Terraciano's. Even his characters would be okay, but they would need to be developed beyond the Sues and stand-ins that they are.

The rules:

1. Same basic generic fantasy setting. Magic is real, yadda yadda. The magic must be systematic, however. You're free to elaborate on magic rules and guidelines as you like, but there must be rules and guidelines. Could be D&D based, could be anything else.

2. Nations and other species are the same, but you may add others. That is to say, there is a Maltak, Werewolf Archipelago (is that seriously the name of their nation?), Semash, etc. Callan is still a monarchy but you may elaborate on the government since Mookie never saw fit to do so.

3. Characters do not have to be the same. There must be an "Oracle for Hire". What that means is up to you. Said oracle could be, but doesn't have to be Dominic. OCs totally welcome.

Anyone game?

I'd start with fleshing out the Dominic's character and background. Early Dominic was actually interesting since he was kind of a rounded character. He was sarcastic and anti-social, but also talented and had a good core. Now he's just a wishy-washy main character Sue.
For example I'd elaborate how exactly he ended in Lyn's Brook. He's talented, has an excellent education, a wealthy family, and connections over his mother. People like that don't end in dead-end jobs, except they decide to. We know he once liked cheesy hero-stories, and then became anoutcast in school, but there are still missing pieces.
I'd by the way kept him True Neutral. That he cares only about the people close to him is his major flaw, but also a defining point for him. Makes him more interesting as a protagonist.

I'm sure many of you have wondered, as have I, what would Dominic Deegan be like if everyone was a snake. (http://gunshowcomic.com/460)

*ssssee the truth

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x479/vhoyosm/DominicSnakegan.png

Well, now we know: looks better

Zaq

2011-11-25, 01:58 PM

Friday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDeLjcTxMaM), we've been discussing the strip for two days already, and we've got two to go, huh? I've been wanting to bring this up for a while, and this seems like as good a time as any.

Challenge: Find five consecutive strips that you think are among the best run in the comic. (Real strips only; no [explicit] filler or guest stuff.) They don't have to be the best individual strips, but they should be five strips in a row that end up not torpedoing themselves. They don't bring up anything that makes them worse, they don't ruin anyone's character, they don't contain anything worthy of a facepalm . . . or at least, if they DO do any of these things, they do it to a minimum degree, ideally balanced out be something genuinely good not bad.

They don't have to be a run of Monday to Friday, either. They can be any five consecutive strips.

Ideally, you should also explain why your run of five is decent, but you knew that already.

Bonus points if they're not from the first year of the comic, when it was merely mediocre (with some creepy implications) instead of actively sabotaging itself.

Who's in?

Oracle_Hunter

2011-11-25, 02:03 PM

Well, Lord Raziere actually beat me to the punch, but I wanted to suggest posting your ideas for rebooting the comic. As engineer-errant says, this comic is pretty much unsalveagable.

. . .

Anyone game?
Reboot DD, you say? Why I have just the thing. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4131733&postcount=7220)

Reposted for ease of reading:
Oracle for Hire through Luna
Dominic Deegan is a highly talented seer who has taken up life as a "fortune teller" in a small town because he has an intense dislike for humanity, having seen the true nature of far too many of his fellow Callanians to have any faith in them. However, a chance encounter with a visiting knight (Siegfried) revealed that he was in terrible danger. However, Siegfried refused to take heed, and Dominic took it upon himself to sneak into the manor to try and prevent the future that he saw.

Within the manor, Dominic came upon Luna, the disfigured and depressed daughter of Madame Travoria that had been hidden from polite society and scorned by her sisters due to her deformity. Dominic befriends Luna and convinces her that they must save Siegfried from her mother's murderous plot. By capturing and scrying into the pasts of several of Madame Travoria's minions, the pair are able to thwart the assassination and reveal Madame Travoria's complicity in the plot.

To the shock of all, Siegfried slays Madame Travoria without a second thought, revealing a brutal streak that taints an otherwise perfect facade of chivalrous virtues. None of the surviving conspirators claim to know who ultimately called for the assassination, but Siegfried arrests them all, and promises to find out who was behind it.

Into the Woods through Mob Mentality
Due to Madame Travoria's role in the conspiracy against a member of the nobility, the Crown confiscates all Travoria land and wealth, leaving Luna, the only member of the Travoria Family still unmarried and unsupported, completely penniless. Dominic agrees to hire her as a secretary for his small business and quickly discovers that despite her depressive exterior, she is a talented sorceress in her own right.

After months of getting to know each other, Dominic gets a letter from his younger brother, then living in a little town known as Barthis, asking for him to visit. Dominic dismisses the letter, but Luna, wanting to know more about his family and thinking that a change of scenery might do him some good, eventually convinces him to go. So the pair set out on the trip. In the course of their travels they are ambushed by a pair of highway men going by the names of "Stunt" and "Bumper." After Dominic is incapacitated, Luna is forced to overcome her self-loathing and act on her own, and manages to chase off the pair.

Once in Barthis, they are told by Pam, the lay healer at the Church of Lunan who looks after Dominic's crippled brother, that Gregory vanished into the woods the other day and hasn't come back yet. After the local seer was unable to locate him (being far too weak to do more than do simple predictions and find missing housekeys), Dominic uses his own powers and sees that Gregory is lying unconscious in the lair of some monster! Dominic goes to Dex, the town's sheriff, for help, and while Dex tries to round up a posse, the town refuses to face the horrible monster Dominic describes. Nonetheless, Dex agrees to help out Dominic.

While searching for Gregory, the party is set upon by Stunt and Bumper who, furious by the humiliation they suffered at Luna's hands, came back for revenge. Luna is taken out first by a thrown knife - the sudden injury panics her and she stumbles away, shrieking. Dex quickly takes out Stunt and Bumper while Dominic goes to get Luna back.

He eventually finds her sobbing in a clearing - ashamed at having run, and disgusted by her cowardice when she had taken care of those two beforehand. Dominic consoles her, and is about to head back when he hears a sound in the brush. Gregory steps out and explains that he was taking a walk in the woods when a small man (Dirk) approached him and asked for his help in healing his friend - a wounded dryad. He followed Dirk to a cave where, try as he might, his White Magic could not heal the wounds on the dryad's body. He was going to head back towards town when they were attacked by a fiendish man of terrible powers - Timontious the Infernomancer - and that then Dirk transformed into a fearsome creature whose mere presence was enough to send Gregory into unconsciousness. Dominic nods, and says that there is always a risk when Seeing of misinterpreting what you see. When Gregory awoke, both Dirk and the dryad were gone, and Gregory was making his way back to town when he stumbled upon Dominic and Luna. Gregory heals Luna's minor wounds and the tree are about to head back to Dex when a terrible shriek and roar echoes through the forest.

Running to investigate, they see a fallen and bloodied Dirk at the feet of Timontious as he reaches over to get the Dryad. The three spring into action, Luna, emboldened by her last failure, uses powerful magics to try and stop Timontious, but it only causes him to turn his attentions to Luna. Panicked, Luna is about to flee when she is sees Gregory standing ready to receive the Infernomancer's attack. Refusing to run when a cripple would not, the two try to hold back the Infernomancer while Dominic sneaks around to take Dirk and the Dryad to safety. In a moment of desperation, Gregory calls on powerful White Magic spell to temporarily banish the Infernomancer back to Hell before clutching his leg and falling over.

Dominic explains that about Jacob and how, when they were teenagers, Jacob placed a necromantic hex of his own design on Gregory, crippling his leg and draining him of much of his life essence. Dominic confronted him, but the more powerful Jacob swatted him down. Dominic responded with a potent Seeing spell - See the Truth - which confronted Jacob with an unfocused yet complete impression of what the rest of Jacob's life would be life if he followed this path. As they were still in training, Dominic did not understand the full power of this spell, and the resulting revelation left Jacob slightly (more) unhinged. Laughing manically about his "destiny" Jacob then left the Deegan Household. A week later, when Miranda returned from her trip to find what had happened, she was astounded by the complexity of Jacob's hex and could not remove it. Attempts to find Jacob were thwarted by a potent ward - it seems that he had entered the protection of one of Callan's many secret "black arts" societies which sensibly warded all their members from the prying eyes of seers.

Ultimately, Dominic & Co. revive Dirk, who tells them to seek out the Oracle of the Forest. The Oracle repairs the wounds suffered by Dirk and the Dryad, noting that they were difficult to heal because they were infected with the Curse of Wounding - a gift that the Demon of Wounds bestowed upon his most powerful Infernomancers.

(The whole series of events of Stupid Hick Filler, Rachel, Hello Nurse! and Slaughterball are skipped entirely)

Now we're at the "good part" of the series. Sketches for Visions, Ecstasy, and Storm

Visions
Upon getting back to Barthis, they meet up with Siegfried and his two new companions - Milov, a potent werewolf shaman and Ambassador to Callan from the Winter Archipelagos, and his lover, Jayden, a priestess of Luan who loves Milov despite being unable to marry him due to the constraints of the Code of the Moon. Milov received a vision from the Moon Goddess that a great and ancient evil would be unlocked in Barthis and called upon the Callanian Court for aide. Only Siegfried stepped forward to assist, on the condition that Milov would use his powers to try and discover who had ordered his assassination.

After this, "Visions" runs pretty much as written after they are all in Barthis and have met Milov. Siegfried attempts to manhandle Vilrath after Dominic fingers him as a suspect due to having the anti-seer rune and Siegfried is hit with a powerful necromantic hex. While Milov and Jayden try to track down Vilrath, Dominic tries to use more powerful Seeing spells and, after being rebuffed by potent anti-seer spells, manages to get some fragmented images. By the time he puts this all together, the Chosen have struck and the town is gripped by the Suicide Curse.

As the only two town members unaffected due to their training, Dominic recruits the hapless Red Shirt Seer to try and confront the Chosen. Red Shirt is promptly killed, but in the confusion, Dominic is able to disrupt the Suicide Curse. The Chosen are about to kill Dominic when Jayden and Milov show up - newly freed of the curse - but after a brief scuffle the Chosen take control of Jayden's mind and force her to incapacitate Milov. Then, they make her channel her Divine Powers in a foul ritual which taints her soul and grants them all tremendous power.

Jacob then reveals himself, kicks ass, and leaves. He'll be slightly crazier and babble more about "his destiny" than in the comic.

Having been unable to do more than watch, shocked and frightened, as the battle went on, the people of Barthis thank Dominic and Co. for their selfless actions and fete them as heroes. Red Shirt Seer is buried before the tree and Dominic suffers angst for having forced him to risk his life.

At the end of the fete, Dominic is encouraged to take over Red Shirt Seer's old shop by the townsfolk - and he does. Jayden is tainted and must go perform cleansing rituals and meditation at Aberxast before she can use her divine powers again, but seeing that Gregory has a tremendous gift, she guides him through the ritual needed to cleanse Siegfried. Siegfried vows vengeance on Jacob, and leaves with Milov to escort Jayden to Aberxast.

Phew! Ecstasy and Storm will needed to be re-written later. Some bullet points for "future" developments.

Ecstacy: Siegfried's research indicates that Szark, Dominic's childhood friend, was behind the assassination. Dominic goes to Sin City to protect his friend from Siegfried's wrath, but is wrapped up in a convoluted plot involving Amaelia, similar but better planned than the actual one. Szark turns out to have been but a link in the chain, and Siegfried continues searching.

The Storm of Souls occurs pretty much as written. Dominic is chosen as the Champion of Balance by Klo Tark and, as the combat rages Barthas is destroyed (but it's people saved by Gregory, whom everyone had always treated as a worthless cripple, aside from Pam), Siegfried duels Jacob while Luna & Co. try to stop Hexia. In the end, Klo Tark is dead for real, Celesto has been banished to an alternate dimension, and Dominic has suffered some actual sacrifice, which might be an unhealable leg.

Battle for Barthis reveals Serk, a powerful businessman with the ear of the king. He has granted a title of nobility contingent on rebuilding Barthis - specifically a title that transforms formerly independent Barthis into his personal fief. Dominic & Co. try to raise the money to repair the town on their own, but are constantly thwarted by shady dealings and criminal sabotage. In the end, Serk is defeated, thanks to the apprehension and implication of his lieutenant "Urban Eddie" in the sabotage. Dominic gets a sense that Serk might have had something to do with the Assassination Plot, but Siegfried is restrained from killing Serk by his fellow Knights. Serk escapes, bloodied but free.
That's what I said three years ago anyways. A good place to start, if nothing else.

T-O-E

2011-11-25, 02:20 PM

2. Nations and other species are the same, but you may add others. That is to say, there is a Maltak, Werewolf Archipelago (is that seriously the name of their nation?), Semash, etc. Callan is still a monarchy but you may elaborate on the government since Mookie never saw fit to do so.

It's the Winter Archipelago. Whether or not that's better is up to you.

Lord Raziere

2011-11-25, 03:18 PM

Well, Lord Raziere actually beat me to the punch, but I wanted to suggest posting your ideas for rebooting the comic. As engineer-errant says, this comic is pretty much unsalveagable.

A common accusation leveled at Mookie is that he has good ideas but fails spectacularly in their execution. I think the bare bones framework of his setting is pretty solid and versatile and was imagining different characters in place of Terraciano's. Even his characters would be okay, but they would need to be developed beyond the Sues and stand-ins that they are.

The rules:

1. Same basic generic fantasy setting. Magic is real, yadda yadda. The magic must be systematic, however. You're free to elaborate on magic rules and guidelines as you like, but there must be rules and guidelines. Could be D&D based, could be anything else.

2. Nations and other species are the same, but you may add others. That is to say, there is a Maltak, Werewolf Archipelago (is that seriously the name of their nation?), Semash, etc. Callan is still a monarchy but you may elaborate on the government since Mookie never saw fit to do so.

3. Characters do not have to be the same. There must be an "Oracle for Hire". What that means is up to you. Said oracle could be, but doesn't have to be Dominic. OCs totally welcome.

Anyone game?

sounds good to me mate.

1. The Oracle must ask permission from someone to view their future before doing so, not doing so results in the goddess of freedom blocking them from viewing it. In short, only people who are willing to have their future be known can be scried upon.

2. this rule does not apply to objects, you can scry into the future of objects however you want, but you won't get full information of course.

3. there are ways to work around the first rule, but they are generally regarded as forbidden/dark magic. probably will cause bad things to happen.

methinks the Oracle For Hire would be constantly trying to scry into his future to find a job, but it would keep throwing him into disastrous situations instead where he comes out a hero when he only ever meant to get a job, sort of like an Oracle version of Ciaphas Cain combined with a jobless person.

TheArsenal

2011-11-25, 03:23 PM

Dominic Deegan Is Wonfderfull! Its Realy Gendrernly Balanced! Its Great!

**** You The Ugly Truth **** You **** You **** You!

mwchase

2011-11-25, 03:30 PM

Personally, I've kind of got the urge to see things go in a really different direction, with some similar surface events. Like, more of a campy intrigue kind of thing. So, the Deegans are, themselves, some kind of secret society, and they go do the things they do at the behest of some unclear agenda (which, I suppose, has to occasionally bear fruit in the way of their actions leading to something nice). So, for example, Dominic didn't get stuck with a terrible job out in [insert name of author's hometown here], he was posted there, as part of some inscrutable plan that was formed, in large part, thanks to his visions.

I'm not sure I'm communicating the idea well, but I really like the idea of the Deegans as a bunch of backstabbing conspirators. Give King Dave some really heinous acts that he personally participated in, and you could get a nice evil vs evil thing going on. Maybe build explicit downtime into the plans, so there could be better-delineated cooldown arcs, about Dominic struggling to conceal things from his "friends".

So far as a magic system, I believe I was throwing around an idea earlier about contract-based magic, that results in stuff like powers (and obligations regarding them) getting inherited/bequeathed, and such.

Other thoughts: when Dominic isn't getting posted to backwater towns, his MO is to give truthful but misleading readings. Typical seer puppetmaster stuff. Difference is, this time, he's being completely honest with himself about his motivations.

random11

2011-11-25, 08:41 PM

Here is my rough idea about seer magic:

Seers can't actually see the future, instead, their powers are limited to past events and mind/emotion reading.
A fortune teller actually reads someone's mind, and based on that man's memories and/or goals he can advise him if his plans are good based on common sense, knowledge about the area the people, and his own whims.
As a result, fortune tellers are usually not taken seriously, especially not by people who know about magic, despite the fact that a good seer can actually advise people with their magic.

Some seers do not lie about their capabilities, but they are both less popular because of this, and the misconception and mistrust is still aimed at them too. That can make many honest seers unsatisfied and grouchy about their job.

Seer magic can also be employed in other ways.
Scanning someones mind without their approval is a lot harder than a regular scan, and might cause damage to either the seer or the target. Not many are willing to take that risk, especially since it's also illegal, but people who use their magic for such goals do exist is the price is right.
Some business people and people in politics value the ability to read minds as employers.

Seers are also employed by the law as investigators, but the limitations of their powers do not make them much more than a side tool for actual detective work.
Because of the risks mentioned before, the police does not use seers to scan suspect's mind, unless they agree to clear their names.
As for scanning objects, they can scry on items, but since they have no mind, the seer will not have any way to distinguish times or have any priority in events related to that item. So scanning a sword for example, will flood the seer with all the battles this sword was involved in and all the time it was locked in a closet, finding a specific murder case will require a lot of time, skill and luck.

Fawkes

2011-11-25, 09:22 PM

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 12:16 AM

A common accusation leveled at Mookie is that he has good ideas but fails spectacularly in their execution.
Unfortunately I now think the idea behind DD was less "I want to make a story with a seer as protagonist" and more "I want to make a webcomic about my awesome D&D character", which explains why it's more about Sueness than hiring oracles.

If I needed to make a webcomic based on the name "Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire", I'd make Dominic a psychic private investigator. Having a new case as the hook for a new arc would work well. Dom could be sent out to find the dirt on a suspected cheating husband, finding a runaway kid or solving crimes the fantasy police won't deal with. Give it a vaguely fantasy noir feeling.

Powers would be the next thing to brainstorm - what can our psychic investigator do? If he can solve everything mentally there's no reason for him to leave the house, which could work if he's like Nero Wolfe but I'm not sure if that's the right direction. I'd want to give him enough power to be an "oracle", but not so much that he's infallible (i.e., not like the actual Dominic Deegan who has no reason to not know everything.)

I'm leaning towards having regular psychics merely having a supernatural intuitive sixth sense about things, strong feelings but extremely vague about any of the details - maybe more about present and past events than the future? Oracles however are psychics that can enter a trance-like state where they recite prophecies as rhyming riddles. This state is based on external psychic stimuli with only limited control of when and where.

I'd give Dom a young psychic apprentice as his sidekick and the second main character. From the perspective of the oracle, the apprentice is needed to jot down the prophecies when they come, help the oracle decypher them, and make sure the oracle doesn't hurt themselves in their trance state. For now I'll call him Luke after Professor Layton's apprentice because it's a decent name and why not.

An arc would have Dom and Luke in their office, get a case, and go off and solve it. I'd have them work on stuff generally outside what you'd expect the police to do, because the police force should have their own oracles. Dom would be on the fringe of the law, avoiding anything too immoral but willing to step on a few toes and cross a few lines (Oracle of Balance stuff :smallwink:). I'd add in a police oracle and apprentice as Dom's foil, occasionally working with and against him.

I'd scrap Luna and all the other Deegans. I'd probably give Dom a family somewhere, but they'd be so different as to be unregonisable. Luna wouldn't fit well with the private investigator format. If she was there she'd be a girl of the week who dies falling off that bridge. Also no Spark. Really, Dom and Luke are all that's required at the core.

Fawkes

2011-11-26, 12:28 AM

Way back when, Phase and I brainstormed up a whole treatment for rebooting DD as a noir story. I may have to dig that up.

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 12:38 AM

The whole setting is screaming for something like that. What else would you do with an "Oracle for Hire"? Corrupt law system on one side, ruthless criminals on the other, Oracle for Hire walks the line in-between.

Heck, that even sounds like what Mookie would say his comic is about. Except it really, really isn't.

mwchase

2011-11-26, 01:18 AM

So, hm. I just found some more interesting stuff (http://www.ursulakleguin.com/GedoSenkiCorrespondents.html) on the Twitters. It's not directly relevant, but I think it might be illuminating.

There is a distinct division, and while many are devastated by the movie, there are also many who are elated with it. Strangely enough, those who are elated often respond with hostility to the ones who are devastated, while the opposite is rarely seen.

Simply put, the Ghibli movie is a story of a boy who kills his father without cause, and of what happens to him after he then runs away. The other characters trust and succor him despite the fact, saving him whenever it seems everything is lost. Apparently, many in the elated group find the film gives them will to live. The fervor with which they defend it brings to mind someone lost in a maze who has just found an engraving of an arrow on a door, only to be told by another traveler that the corridor behind it is a dead end.

The ones affected the most are in a sense the most open and innocent. They only know that they have been moved, are happy and relieved when the boy lays aside his guilt and anxiety at the end, and so hurt by the more objective viewpoints that they tend to go on the offensive.

So, yeah, I was reading about the Japanese fanbase for the anime Earthsea adaptation, and suddenly some things sounded... familiar.

I'm going to judge it likely that I'd quickly find the idea I outlined tiresome, and figured I'd see what kind of story would fit around just focusing on the contract magic stuff.

Going by the rules... An Oracle has made or inherited a contract with the concept of non-proximity (that is, the 'Plane' of somewhere/somewhen else). Perhaps the contract obliges him to always require payment for his services, even if he's doing them for himself. I'm thinking he gives the price upfront; the one thing he can do for free is to determine "the right price" (which can mean different things under different circumstances) to charge someone. Sometimes, merely stating his price might be enough to make someone realize what they wanted to know.

The Delphic Oracle prophesied with the help of fumes, right? I'm surprised getting his smoking cured didn't completely throw Dominic off, in that context. (Sudden thought: which two characters have peg legs and are compared to Time Lords? The Demon is already here.)

I'm visualizing a wandering the earth type of plot, in which the Oracle follows subtle prods from the Plane of Elsewhere to find where to go. The first arc or so could cover people's reactions to him, and then, the focus could change when he's forced to see the outcome of his intervention, and becomes frustrated with being a pawn of destiny.

Part of potentially knowing everything, is that nothing seems real. It's like I've lived my life in a dream. Seeing what a nightmare that is, it's time to wake up. Obviously, anything I just type out is subject to merciless editing, because comics.

Anyway, I'm not sure what a rebellion against destiny would entail. In all likelihood, extensive contract law. Need to lay out a few significant clauses, and work out some good absurdist stuff to go along. That means that I basically just need to figure out where I want things to go, which would be... hm. I like the idea of ganking mindscape stuff from Psychonauts, except rework things to take into account that it's a linear (or at least predetermined :smallcool:) narrative rather than a game construct.

One possibility that strikes me is, someone who knows "the right price" could either be excellent or horrible at contract negotiation, given that knowledge.

Of course, the elephant in the room is, if a non-interactive story is about escaping from the confines of destiny, it's likely to get post-modern like wow.

I mean, if "destiny" is anything, it's got to just be the consequences of the world being as it is. To desire escaping from destiny is to desire escape from the consequences of one's actions. The question, then, is whether there's a difference between destiny-as-an-emergent-property and destiny-as-a-legal-person-under-the-contract-based-magic-system-(which-I-should-really-dig-up-a-link-to). Thing is, that gets into rarefied and gnosticism-y territory, so I'm thinking there need to be other characters in action, or it'll just get pretentious and dumb. I don't want this to be pretentious and dumb, I want it to be pretentious and smart. Probably parallel story-telling, mixing up foreshadowing with might-have-beens.

I'm going to think about what I want the setting to be like, so I have something more concrete to work with. It's a common criticism that the willy-nilly inclusion of modern elements into a generic fantasy kingdom really weakens and confuses things. So, there are two obvious choices: full on industrialized magic, or cut out modern stuff to a massive, possibly complete, degree. I'm going to think about the former, because I want an idea of what a magical industrial revolution would look like. Under contract-based magic, I've got a mental image of engines that get paid to run. Industrial espionage based on oracles would drastically speed up innovation, in a red queen kind of way. I'm thinking heavily automated factories, staffed by a skeleton crew, with a large portion of the revenue skimmed to the elemental planes. In this respect, they'd be kind of like robber barons, and with their enormous influence, they might actually be able to enforce medieval stasis, if they so deem it in their interests. It's a typical acting out of the "neglected social class takes on distasteful task, rakes in hazard pay, becomes incredibly wealthy and influential" thing. If they buy out the factories they work in, there's no really good way for people to compete, which means that people either have to take on debt or go off the grid, with only inherited magic to give them any kind of an edge. I can see this leading to a large population of infernomancers, who gave themselves over to hell for a chance to liberate society and

holy ****

why so grimdark

I'm going to throw in with the noir reimaginings, because this is transparently preposterous.

Edit: I mean, maybe it could be part of the setting that the forces of destiny are trying to prevent industrialization by setting up oracles as unwitting saboteurs, exactly because it would really suck for almost everyone.

I became an oracle to seek knowledge. Why am I thwarting others' quests for it? The price for that... one of my big toenails. Dammit, those take weeks to regrow, and what if I need help finding my glasses? ... Fine. "I don't want to know"? That's a terrible answer. Come on now, inscrutable voice of the cosmos, give me some care for my keratin. ... Oh, no. Oh, no. That's horrible. Um... now what?

So, that's a good conflict to start with: he doesn't like what his "bosses" are having him do, but what he's doing is preventing the systematic oppression of New Dominia (name subject to change). As their demands get more extreme, he begins to question their motives. They appear to be preventing something terrible from happening, but what's happening in its place? Is there a way to avoid this fate?

One day, he's pushed further than ever: the forces of destiny would have him kill a man. Shocked out of his dead-eyed acceptance of their demands by the man's crazed babbling, he asks why this man is so important. When he learns that the price is one of his own eyes, he pays it without hesitation, desperate for answers, and sure that anyone they want killed must be significant.

The man is a magical anomaly. A conflux of coincidences led to his contracts becoming warped and perverted, and he possesses a chaotic kind of meta-magic, capable of rewriting contracts, seemingly at random. With the Oracle's knowledge of magical intrigue, and the other man's... talents, they may be able to break the world out of the cycle it's been stuck in for generations, without immediately running things into the ground.

I'd be willing to do something with this, if someone else is interested enough to help flesh things out, but, as is, I'm lacking some crucial bit of inspiration. This might seem unbelievable, with the sheer amount that I've written, but this idea hasn't yet gelled for me.

Coidzor

2011-11-26, 01:50 AM

If I needed to make a webcomic based on the name "Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire", I'd make Dominic a psychic private investigator. Having a new case as the hook for a new arc would work well. Dom could be sent out to find the dirt on a suspected cheating husband, finding a runaway kid or solving crimes the fantasy police won't deal with. Give it a vaguely fantasy noir feeling.

I would concur there. ...x.x I'm actually increasingly finding I want to mix noir, fantasy, pulp, steampunk, and dungeonpunk...

I'd give Dom a young psychic apprentice as his sidekick and the second main character. From the perspective of the oracle, the apprentice is needed to jot down the prophecies when they come, help the oracle decypher them, and make sure the oracle doesn't hurt themselves in their trance state. For now I'll call him Luke after Professor Layton's apprentice because it's a decent name and why not.

I'm going to admit something that you'll all laugh at me for now. ...When I was a kid, for a bit there I thought he actually had one of those and wondered why he only showed up for a few comics at the beginning...

random11

2011-11-26, 03:09 AM

I'm sorry to disturb the weekend fun with a question about the comic's "story", still, it annoys me not to know.
Was it mentioned anywhere what Miranda was doing at the time of the twin arcs?
She is the character with the best motivation to try and do something, she knew all the information Dominic and Luna had before the twin stories, and she doesn't even have any job to distract her from this quest.

Gez

2011-11-26, 03:18 AM

From the perspective of the oracle, the apprentice is needed to jot down the prophecies when they come, help the oracle decypher them, and make sure the oracle doesn't hurt themselves in their trance state. [...] Also no Spark. Really, Dom and Luke are all that's required at the core.

A talking familiar could fill the role of "jotting down prophecies, helping decipher them, and watching over the trancing oracle".

I'm thinking heavily automated factories, staffed by a skeleton crew

They could even be actual skeleton crews.
RECYCLED LABOR AT WORK (http://www.casualvillain.com/Unsounded/comic/ch04/ch04_65.html)

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 03:18 AM

Was it mentioned anywhere what Miranda was doing at the time of the twin arcs?
As far as I can tell, no. Miranda was around when they were deciding to lay low until they have more proof, (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-04-19) but it doesn't say what she was going to do. Then Dom and Luna decided to ignore everything said in that comic and do their twin arc thing.

Edit:

A talking familiar could fill the role of "jotting down prophecies, helping decipher them, and watching over the trancing oracle".
Yes but I'm not putting Spark anywhere near a main role. :smallyuk:

I'd want the sidekick to be someone who Dom trusts to both not screw up and to be honest with the prophecies. A familiar might work better if the story skews heavily towards comedy, a human apprentice would have better potential for dramatic stories.

T-O-E

2011-11-26, 07:32 AM

How about a talking goldfish named Luna?

TheArsenal

2011-11-26, 07:51 AM

Or how about a Otmeal called "Luna"

Welf

2011-11-26, 08:03 AM

Unfortunately I now think the idea behind DD was less "I want to make a story with a seer as protagonist" and more "I want to make a webcomic about my awesome D&D character", which explains why it's more about Sueness than hiring oracles.

If I needed to make a webcomic based on the name "Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire", I'd make Dominic a psychic private investigator. Having a new case as the hook for a new arc would work well. Dom could be sent out to find the dirt on a suspected cheating husband, finding a runaway kid or solving crimes the fantasy police won't deal with. Give it a vaguely fantasy noir feeling.eek who dies falling off that bridge. Also no Spark. Really, Dom and Luke are all that's required at the core.

That sounds like a good webcomic, but not like DD at all (what a redundant statement). In that case I'd say you should ignore the label Dominic Deegen and call it something new. For a re-write I'd prefer to keep the early arcs and the main characters. Otherwise it wouldn't be the same, and we'd still wonder what DD could have been if not for the horrible execution and the added terrible ideas.

Domochevsky

2011-11-26, 09:33 AM

Also, don't forget that DD was originally intended to be funny, so the "what if" should be in a funny vein as well. Lighthearted overall.

Traab

2011-11-26, 10:28 AM

Yes but I'm not putting Spark anywhere near a main role.

I'd want the sidekick to be someone who Dom trusts to both not screw up and to be honest with the prophecies. A familiar might work better if the story skews heavily towards comedy, a human apprentice would have better potential for dramatic stories.

Hmm, having a familiar IS a fairly standard trope for a powerful magical being. Him being a seer instead of a wizard might have an interesting effect on what it could be. Instead of a dragonling or an imp, or some other familiar to display how awesomely powerful the caster is, he could have something along the lines of an owl, or raven, as a symbol that he is a seeker of knowledge. Making it talk, or even just a sort of mental bond would also be easily done.

As far as a human apprentice or just a gopher for dom, thats a possibility, but only if the comic needs extra people in it for some reason. Dont want to clutter up the comic with too many "main" characters.

Toast1862

2011-11-26, 11:24 AM

Hmm, having a familiar IS a fairly standard trope for a powerful magical being. Him being a seer instead of a wizard might have an interesting effect on what it could be. Instead of a dragonling or an imp, or some other familiar to display how awesomely powerful the caster is, he could have something along the lines of an owl, or raven, as a symbol that he is a seeker of knowledge. Making it talk, or even just a sort of mental bond would also be easily done.

As far as a human apprentice or just a gopher for dom, thats a possibility, but only if the comic needs extra people in it for some reason. Dont want to clutter up the comic with too many "main" characters.

But wouldn't the familiar count as a "main" character? Otherwise, it's just an accessory, since it's going to show up constantly. I'd say it would be better to have an actual human, maybe someone kind of forcing his presence onto the grumpy bastard. You know, "Mr Dominic I did the hundreds of pointless, nearly-impossible tasks you asked me to do!! Now can I be your apprentice?!" "... But... they weren't nearly-impossible, they were supposed to be impossible because I hate you. What the hell did you do?! Let me see that-- you stole that from-- oh god we are so screwed, dammit kid!" ...or something.

TheArsenal

2011-11-26, 11:35 AM

I agree, Spark eventualy got realy annoying. He had like....two character traits.

And now he disappeared from the plot altogether! Sidekicks are NEVER a good idea, unless they are as interesting an given as much time as other main characters and by that point, scrap the sidekick part as well.

Johnny Blade

2011-11-26, 11:55 AM

Does anyone else think if Mookie spent 15 minutes slapping on some basic newspaper style colours the strip would be considerably improved? Especially if he isn't going to bother with backgrounds.
Only if he makes all characters clowns all the time.
Otherwise it's pretty much a textbook example of polishing a turd. I remember you or maybe somebody else actually did that once and it looked pretty nice at first, but as soon as you look at it a second time and the whole coloring thing isn't new and exciting anymore you notice the terribleness of the art again.
So, for any considerable improvement, Mookie would really have to learn how to draw.

Well, Lord Raziere actually beat me to the punch, but I wanted to suggest posting your ideas for rebooting the comic. As engineer-errant says, this comic is pretty much unsalveagable.

A common accusation leveled at Mookie is that he has good ideas but fails spectacularly in their execution. I think the bare bones framework of his setting is pretty solid and versatile and was imagining different characters in place of Terraciano's. Even his characters would be okay, but they would need to be developed beyond the Sues and stand-ins that they are.
Mookie doesn't have good ideas, he takes ideas that may or may not have been good when they were first used 20+ years ago and throws them into a blender, ruining them in the process, as has been noted before. Dominic Deegan is like a literary version of "Will It Blend?", and the anwer is always "No.".
So my idea for a better, rebooted Dominic Deegan: Ape whatever fantasy or superhero stuff you want to like Mookie but don't suck at writing.

Okay, that was a little negative - honest and ugly, you might say - so...

Challenge: Find five consecutive strips that you think are among the best run in the comic.

...I'll give you not only one (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2002-06-15), but two (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-07-08).

A one-two punch, if you will.

(There's an actual point to this, although I didn't really intend that, which is that Mookie can do silly stuff reasonably well but usually fails as soon as he tries to move beyond this.)

Was it mentioned anywhere what Miranda was doing at the time of the twin arcs?
Well, it's especially notable in this case, but "Why didn't Miranda solve everything?" is kind of a question you can ask yourself - but never answer - after every other arc.

colonelslime

2011-11-26, 04:24 PM

But wouldn't the familiar count as a "main" character? Otherwise, it's just an accessory, since it's going to show up constantly. I'd say it would be better to have an actual human, maybe someone kind of forcing his presence onto the grumpy bastard. You know, "Mr Dominic I did the hundreds of pointless, nearly-impossible tasks you asked me to do!! Now can I be your apprentice?!" "... But... they weren't nearly-impossible, they were supposed to be impossible because I hate you. What the hell did you do?! Let me see that-- you stole that from-- oh god we are so screwed, dammit kid!" ...or something.

Well, since originally familiars were demons summoned in animal form, i think there could be potential beyond just the funny talking critter schtick common in many fantasy genres. You could amalgamate Luna and spark together, and make her a succubus or some other female demon. I tend to do experiments like this in my head about a lot of works, to see if any premises work as the start of another story. I actually formulated the idea of Dominic as a seer who had a companion demon; only thing is, this demon exists only in his mind. She is real, in that she originates from somewhere else, and can gift him with new information and understanding, but she doesn't actually manifest as anything but a life-like hallucination. If any of you have watched the new BSG, think the Six in Baltar's head. Even Dominic wouldn't know where she came from, and wouldn't know what to make of her necessarily.

I envision her being more than just a Sabine-like sex embodiment though, more like an alien consciousness in his brain. She definitely has her own motives, and can trick him into acting by suggestion and careful manipulation of his perception. But she's not heartless or evil, necessarily, and seems to have her own "demons" to run from. It would be an interesting "love/hate" dynamic, where he depends on her at times, but never knows how far to trust her. And I've always liked stories that explore love where physical attraction (or at least acting on such)is an impossibility, just as a kind of exploration of the psychology of attraction.

Second sight would be a known phenomenon, but downplayed by agents such as the church. If magic did exist in plain sight (I never decided whether it should or not), official practice of it would be limited to more mundane, physical manifestations of force, not prescience. Any seeing would be considered blasphemous, since the only true seer was the prophetess Luana. The church would have a strong ecclesiarchy across Callan. The chosen (and I personally did like the premise of the storm of souls) would be cultist remnants of a religion supplanted by the church, working to enact a plan that would trigger some sort of metaphysical shift in existence, using whatever the SoS is. They would be zealous extremists, but not wrong in some of their commentary on the church. In particular, I would see them exploring necromancy, as in divination by death, triggering near-death (or real death) experiences to pierce the veil and see if they can retain anything form the other side. One person to already do this, better and first, would be Rillian, and ageless entity fundamentally altered by his experiences. He would be a relic from a bygone era, remembering the actual people (of a sort) behind church figures like Sri Acibek (the equivalent of a Saint). Jacob would still be dom,s brother, as would Gregory, but they would come from a family torn apart by the attack of the chosen some 10 years previously, which resulted in the death of their mother. Mama Deegan would have had some important station, magical if magic was common, which allowed her sons to survive afterwards, with he help of their father. But the strain of the event made them drift apart, and each would slip into their own exploration of the deeper side of magic, culminating in very different worldviews.

That's about how far I got.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention. One of the reasons I though making Luna a demoness would be cool was that it would link hell to reality early on it the story, and would give a reason for her bipolar behavior. I though that, since Luna's behavior makes no sense in context, maybe if it was assumed that she led a separated existence hidden from Dom and the reader, it would make her less annoying and more interesting. And it would leave a door open for when the war in hell starts.

Gez

2011-11-26, 04:47 PM

Yes but I'm not putting Spark anywhere near a main role. :smallyuk:

I'd want the sidekick to be someone who Dom trusts to both not screw up and to be honest with the prophecies. A familiar might work better if the story skews heavily towards comedy, a human apprentice would have better potential for dramatic stories.

I just think that a familiar -- an animal created by Dom's magic (can drop the backstory of it being a stray with a "natural" magical mutation) -- fits better the original archetype of Dom as a grouchy, asocial hermit that does not like the company of people and only does his job because he's got to pay the bills.

Actually; I think if I were to reboot DD, I'd also keep his family mostly the same -- big famous bard dad, powerful Hogwart headmistress mom, and all -- and the twist would be in explaining why exactly did Dom move away from that to go live in the boondocks doing a job that misuses his talents for people he despises; instead of getting through nepotism a cushy research position in a prestigious academy.

There was a potential there, a potential completely wasted by Mookie wanting his protagonist to have a loving, supportive, powerful family.

Without making them a bunch of Travorias ("they're all evil except Dom"), I think Jacob would have a cushy research position...

TheArsenal

2011-11-26, 05:00 PM

Mostly I would make it that without his Oracle powers- Hes a failure. Hes unamaginative, dull, and knows only basic magic. His parents still love him but he feels embarassed simply hanging around them.

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 05:12 PM

That sounds like a good webcomic, but not like DD at all (what a redundant statement).
Well yeah, I thought that was the point. I don't want too much Deegan in my webcomic. :smalltongue:

It's still in the same vein as the very first arc, back when Dominic was an actual Oracle for Hire instead of a Sue on the loose. IMO the seeds of disaster were planted when Luna was promoted to main character.

I just think that a familiar -- an animal created by Dom's magic (can drop the backstory of it being a stray with a "natural" magical mutation) -- fits better the original archetype of Dom as a grouchy, asocial hermit that does not like the company of people and only does his job because he's got to pay the bills.
My feeling is that there's better story potential from pairing a grouchy asocial hermit with an actual human apprentice, forcing Dom to slowly grow into a surrogate father and then further on when his apprentice becomes skilled treating him as an equal. I fear giving an animal sidekick to someone like Dom will permanently lock their relationship from the beginning, much like Dom and Spark.

It could work if Spark is allowed to fully be a main character beyond "funny talking cat". You would need to create a whole culture for the familiars interwoven into the world - which isn't a bad thing, but it would give the comic a different tone from the one I associate with DD. (Mostly because there are barely any talking animals anywhere in actual DD, another reason why Spark is so unholy.)

Bobikus

2011-11-26, 05:16 PM

There's obviously nice necromancers, so there's no reason that Jacob should have had to go all evil to be able to research it, unless Helixa made Momgan so anti-necromancy that she disowned her son the moment she found out what he wanted to study.

Dominic could have had reasons for moving to some backwater town, but the potential was ruined by Terracciano wanting it both ways. Dom can't be both the "working class underdog hero" while openly accepting his powerful and influential family's intervention.

Sidekicks, familiars, apprentices CAN work, but they have to be actual characters with their own motivations and goals and everything if they're going to be around the whole series and get a lot of screen time. The midget Dom keeps in a cat suit never really moves beyond "likes fish and alliteration."

T-O-E

2011-11-26, 05:17 PM

<interesting stuff>

I really like the idea of magic coming from extradimensional entities inside your mind, some of them coming from outside time and with an inhuman thought process. Like spirits, gods, demons or even personifications of the universe. Maybe they come to see what being a human is like or to influence the physical world. Most of the time it destroys the host's brain and the entity's actions make him dangerous and crazy until he gets himself killed. If the host is strong enough, he can bind the entity to his own power and might be able to force it to tell him things or do stuff. The problem is that this takes mental effort and might release the vengeful entity, so it has to be used sparingly and the wizard has to keep himself in check at all times. Maybe some entities just play along and pretend that the human has power over them, for their own reasons. Some particularly insane people might intentionally summon one or more very powerful entities through specific rituals.

I imagine different entities can do different things, and the power of the entity varies considerably. And after a while, the wizard's mind might fuse with the other, to some consequence.

Naturally wizards will be hated and despised.

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 05:37 PM

Dominic could have had reasons for moving to some backwater town, but the potential was ruined by Terracciano wanting it both ways. Dom can't be both the "working class underdog hero" while openly accepting his powerful and influential family's intervention.
Oh man, this ranks right up there as the most annoying element of DD's writing. Mookie keeps trying to use classic tropes where they simply do not work. He's either putting zero thought into anything in his comic or he's simply not capable of understanding storytelling.

It's why Walk the Wild Edge was so abysmal. Mookie decides the antagonists are going to be "evil poachers who don't respect the life in the Wild Edge", then makes his protagonists Stunt and Bort even more vile and murderous.

Or my favourite piece of storytelling WTF, this strip. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2010-08-13) Stunt had been carted and flung around the Wild Edge with wild abandon to get him from one plot point to the next, and in the previous strip (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2010-08-12) stumbled across the extremely obvious Bort. Jaxon our eeeeevil villain for the arc springs his trap, and goes into the stock speech about how Stunt was easy to track. Why? Because Mookie only works with fragments of cliches instead of thinking about his comic story.

:mad: </rant>

Bobikus

2011-11-26, 09:08 PM

:mad: </rant>

The rants that break down how bad the comic is are more interesting than the strip slays and edits to me.

DD is to comics what Tropers are to writing.

colonelslime

2011-11-26, 10:12 PM

I remember, during WotWE initial run, wondering why people were so tolerant of it. It has warped Aesops, contrived coincidences, things and people just magically being in the right place, or magically knowing things, violent jerks between comedy and drama, etc. Everything bad about DD is in the arc in spades, yet people gave it a pass because it was a "wacky" setting.

Trazoi

2011-11-26, 10:12 PM

Unfortunately Dominic Deegan circa 2011 is the way it is due to only one problem, which is that Mookie has been phoning it in for years. With earlier arcs we could discuss what Mookie was attempting and where it falls flat, but it's hard when Mookie doesn't appear to be attempting anything at all.

At least I hope he's phoning it in. If it's revealed that Mookie has been labouring tirelessly to plan this year's story then that's considerably more depressing.

Edit: @colonelslime: While I do remember a few people thinking Wild Edge was okay afterward, I think the consensus was it was terrible. Most of us started with high hopes dashed quickly, got confused when the wacky comedy turned violent, and then everyone was repulsed by Jaxon being crushed and eaten alive.

The thing was it was right after the Bland Arc and everyone hated SmugGreg with a burning rage. So it might have looked better in comparison. It wasn't, but SmugGreg has that effect on people.

Editx2: I do remember completely losing at it when that Alpha Weedle picked up Stunt for no reason and dumped him at Vasquez. And my increasing anger at Vasquez not having a name. (Neither did Bortette, the other female character in the arc.)

Bobikus

2011-11-26, 10:30 PM

On archive digging, there isn't really any arc I think is "good," but they were at least coherent before the last couple years.

Also Wild Edge at least had "no smugreg" going for it.

colonelslime

2011-11-26, 10:48 PM

I really like the idea of magic coming from extradimensional entities inside your mind, some of them coming from outside time and with an inhuman thought process. Like spirits, gods, demons or even personifications of the universe. Maybe they come to see what being a human is like or to influence the physical world. Most of the time it destroys the host's brain and the entity's actions make him dangerous and crazy until he gets himself killed. If the host is strong enough, he can bind the entity to his own power and might be able to force it to tell him things or do stuff. The problem is that this takes mental effort and might release the vengeful entity, so it has to be used sparingly and the wizard has to keep himself in check at all times. Maybe some entities just play along and pretend that the human has power over them, for their own reasons. Some particularly insane people might intentionally summon one or more very powerful entities through specific rituals.

I imagine different entities can do different things, and the power of the entity varies considerably. And after a while, the wizard's mind might fuse with the other, to some consequence.

Naturally wizards will be hated and despised.
Roughly what I was thinking, though I was also thinking, in a small number of cases, like Dominic himself, the demon seems not wholly antipathic to the host's needs. Like, maybe it's just doing it for itself, but it will try and preserve Dominic from harm and discovery (including making him kill those who know about its presence, if its a secret) to make sure whatever contract it has formed keeps going. That way, Dominic is forced to rely on the demon in certain cases, because otherwise he would fail, and this makes him have an odd affection for the being that, despite whatever else it is, did save his life on multiple occasions. I haven't worked out exactly how the host/parasite relationship would work, whether people would know about it, etc. but I picture the demon doing everything from granting understanding of magic to telling the protagonist to duck at the right moment.

Plus I was figuring you could work in characters like Rillian, Celesto, Karnak and Sigfried as being people who (either prior to the start of the story, or during its run) end up in another plane, and come back changed. Then they become a new type of threat, beings who have gained some form of understanding that has fundamentally changed (warped?) them, but not wholly alien like the demon/spirits. Then questions start to come up as to whether the demons were all human at some point, what elsewhere is, whether the Luanian church knows about/was founded by such beings. I must admit I don't dislike, in theory, the morphic psychoplane that DD employs. It would make a great setting for demons to come crawling in out of the dark, and maybe it just represents the null space between the planes.

Helanna

2011-11-27, 01:52 AM

busterswd

2011-11-27, 03:33 AM

I just think that a familiar -- an animal created by Dom's magic (can drop the backstory of it being a stray with a "natural" magical mutation) -- fits better the original archetype of Dom as a grouchy, asocial hermit that does not like the company of people and only does his job because he's got to pay the bills.

Alternately, you could make the concept of a familiar extraordinarily depressing: there is no sentience behind a cat. Cats don't talk, even in a magic world. "Spark" is a personality Dominic made to respond to him in a specific tone and manner to keep him company. If Spark seems one note, it's because his voice is operating on a couple of stimulus/response rules.

random11

2011-11-27, 03:46 AM

As far as I can tell, no. Miranda was around when they were deciding to lay low until they have more proof, (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-04-19) but it doesn't say what she was going to do. Then Dom and Luna decided to ignore everything said in that comic and do their twin arc thing.

They didn't ignore Miranda.
Their basic plan wasn't so bad: We need proof for the arch-magi, for that we'll need to sneak quietly, and for that we need Celesto.
In the beginning they even had to ass-pull new magic just to show that they are being careful not to be detected.
Later things got screwed partially because of things they did not control and partially because Dominic just kept shouting <bad Italian accent>It's me! Mario! Dominic!</bad Italian accent> all around town.

So it's not like they went and did something behind Miranda's back when they were looking for Celesto.
So why wasn't Miranda there?
More importantly, why wasn't Miranda there, but Greg was?!

Trazoi

2011-11-27, 04:07 AM

Later things got screwed partially because of things they did not control and partially because Dominic just kept shouting <bad Italian accent>It's me! Mario! Dominic!</bad Italian accent> all around town.
That is the part where they ignore Miranda. That and where Greg discusses their plan directly with a cattleblaster because he likes his music.

No-one knows what Miranda was doing. For all we know she never left the room. You're under the assumption there's some thought behind this somewhere. :smalltongue:

Zaq

2011-11-27, 04:39 AM

No-one knows what Miranda was doing. For all we know she never left the room. You're under the assumption there's some thought behind this somewhere. :smalltongue:

Miranda's a god-mode NPC, but she's still an NPC. Unless a Deegan explicitly says otherwise, she doesn't do anything while she's not on camera.

That's another thing that I've come to realize bothers me about this comic . . . none of the characters, big or small, feel like they're doing anything when we're not actually watching them. Just about the only character where I kind of believe they continue to exist when they're not onscreen is Rapechel, and that's mostly because Mookie can't resist giving her radically different outfits every time we see her. It's like we're suffering from a weird lack of object permanence.

Dominic Deegan: Making You Feel Like a One-Year-Old Since 2002!

Bobikus

2011-11-27, 05:00 AM

Miranda's a god-mode NPC, but she's still an NPC. Unless a Deegan explicitly says otherwise, she doesn't do anything while she's not on camera.

That's another thing that I've come to realize bothers me about this comic . . . none of the characters, big or small, feel like they're doing anything when we're not actually watching them. Just about the only character where I kind of believe they continue to exist when they're not onscreen is Rapechel, and that's mostly because Mookie can't resist giving her radically different outfits every time we see her. It's like we're suffering from a weird lack of object permanence.

Dominic Deegan: Making You Feel Like a One-Year-Old Since 2002!

It's because Terracciano suffers from a lack of object permanence himself, evidenced by pretty much everything about his writing over the last couple arcs.

T-O-E

2011-11-27, 05:09 PM

They could even be actual skeleton crews.
RECYCLED LABOR AT WORK (http://www.casualvillain.com/Unsounded/comic/ch04/ch04_65.html)

Wow, that girl is insufferable.

Toast1862

2011-11-27, 08:17 PM

So, I found a folder full of my chat logs from 2006 and I found a reference to DD. So apparently I was reading it at the time. The reference:

DAMMIT, STUNT! KISS BUMPER!

............. yep that sounds about right.

Coidzor

2011-11-27, 10:02 PM

So, I found a folder full of my chat logs from 2006 and I found a reference to DD. So apparently I was reading it at the time. The reference:

............. yep that sounds about right.

Aye, 15 year old girls are scary.

Wow, that girl is insufferable.

But is she as bad as Smeg?

Trazoi

2011-11-27, 10:18 PM

But is she as bad as Smeg?
A critical difference is Sette is meant to be insufferable.

Let's compare cast bios, shall we?

Sette Frummagem
Sette thinks you suck. If you had anything on your sorry carcass worth stealing she'd take it and you'd never know until late at night when you most needed the thing, and couldn't find it, and then realised at the most inopportune moment that you'd been suckered by the best pocket-picker to ever lift lint.

There's only one person in the world Sette respects and that's her Da. Da has sent her on a mission, a very important mission, but he's not sent her unprepared. Sette's going to make her Da proud and make a lot of money too. Or steal it. Maybe steal it from you.
Gregory Deegan
Gregory Deegan is an immensely powerful white mage. His skill is matched only by his optimism.
He is the youngest of the three Deegan brothers, and looks up to Dominic as his best friend and role-model.
Gregory genuinely loves people and believes that there is significant good in everyone.

Most Deegans are like Gregory's mother. Gruff, cynical, and avoid people when they can. Gregory, however, is very much his father's son, and like him, an exception of a typical Deegan. Gregory has always been happy, joyous, eager to laugh and willing to help people. Even as a young boy, he was naturally likeable and it drew other children to be his friend. His couch forts were the stuff of legend. His bubbly demeanor even pierced the scowl of his older brother Dominic, as well as the darkness of his eldest brother, Jacob. It came as a surprise to no one that he had a natural aptitude for the healing and benevolent arts of white magic. He embraced his studies, and it only furthered his natural goodness.
Then, one fateful night, his entire life changed. A powerful necromancer who hated his parents attacked their home. Gregory's leg was terribly injured by one of the necromancer's more loathsome undead minions. The wound was infected by the Blight of the Undead, and it quickly spread through his body. Were it not for the incredible healing powers of the white magic flowing through his veins, Gregory would have surely died. It slowed the Blight's progress enough allow his parents to get him proper aid from healers at a nearby Luanian church. They were able to stop it from consuming him, but they could not expel it from his body. His injured leg could not be properly healed, and he was rendered lame.
The children who were so eager to play with him were now eager to leave him behind. He could no longer keep up with them. His new handicap opened the floodgates for other children to tease him, trip him, and generally pick on him. Despite his weakened body, Gregory would not let his spirit fall. Though he cried and bled, his happiness never diminished. Where he was physically frail, his will was unbreakable.
His optimism was almost his downfall. His older brother, Jacob, had alienated himself from the rest of his family, but Gregory still believed in his brother's innate goodness. He honestly believed his big brother was just misunderstood. He thought he'd finally reached his elusive sibling when Jacob invited him out to the nearby cemetery... where he subjected Gregory to a terrible experiment. He had been studying necromancy, and had somehow learned to control the Blight of the Undead! Unwilling to harm his brother, even in self-defense, Gregory let him spread the Blight further into his body! He was rescued, seconds away from death, when Dominic's second sight alerted his parents to the fratricidal deed. Gregroy wept as Jacob vanished into the night.
His studies of white magic excelled as he grew older. The Blight's infection had a unique effect on his spells, however, tinting them a strange shade of grey. Furthermore, whenever he was overcome with emotion, he would channel excessive amounts of white magic, often healing everything within a twenty foot radius of himself! He bore the brunt of many bullies and antagonists, but his spirit never wavered. While he got along famously with Dominic, they always argued about Jacob. Gregory was convinced there was still some good in him.
One day, a few years after Dominic had moved away, Gregory decided to go for a walk near the Crescent Star Lake. He met the strangest of creatures, and on that day his life would change forever... again.

Many, many things have happened to Gregory Deegan since he was reunited with Dominic at Crescent Star Lake. It was his white magic that saved Dirk the Mighty and The Dryad from the perverse claws of the Infernomancer. It was his optimism that helped Luna along the road to self-confidence. It was Gregory who used his magic to heal Lord Siegfried and Lord Milov Danovich of the Blight of the Undead.
But most significant of all, Gregory came face-to-face with Jacob once more. Their meeting was not a pleasant one, and while it left Gregory more powerful than ever before... it also left him less optimistic.
He is currently living in Barthis, staying at the Healing House with Nurse Pamela Chayler, and he still likes to build couch forts

Zaq

2011-11-27, 11:18 PM

Aye, 15 year old girls are scary.

While I don't disagree in principle, this is one time when I agree with her. (EDIT: I often agree with Toast, but not so often with 15-year-old girls.) I know what Mookie was aiming for with Bumper and Stunt's relationship, but that's not really what he got.

AgentofOdd

2011-11-28, 12:09 AM

Well, guess I'll be your link poster person tonight.

Sneaky Gate (http://dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111128.gif)
Future Link (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-28)

Mama Deegan baffles and terrifies me. She does know that the two love birds can have a second wedding ceremony after all this chaos is done with right? Honestly. considering how long it'll take for the King to even show a hint of his malevolent plan, I can't really blame the two.

Also, she watches her kids... all the time. Perhaps necromancer lady ISN'T the reason why Jacob is so screwed in the head.

Coidzor

2011-11-28, 12:12 AM

While I don't disagree in principle, this is one time when I agree with her. (EDIT: I often agree with Toast, but not so often with 15-year-old girls.) I know what Mookie was aiming for with Bumper and Stunt's relationship, but that's not really what he got.

Well, it's not so much the content as the vehement all-capsness of it.

I dunno, maybe I've just grown old and easily startled by the world around me...

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 12:12 AM

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 12:12 AM

Yes. Let's ignore the immediate peril from our last antics and get married at Arkham Asylum. Why not.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-11-28, 12:20 AM

Yes. Let's ignore the immediate peril from our last antics and get married at Arkham Asylum. Why not.

I fail to see the problem with this.

The Riddler is my Best Man.

Coidzor

2011-11-28, 12:23 AM

Mookie should really avoid putting Dominic in anything resembling a dress. He really looks like a little girl.

I fail to see the problem with this.

The Riddler is my Best Man.

Ok, thanks you two, managed to get the first chuckle I've had in the DD thread in a long time thanks to your double whammy.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 12:23 AM

Terraciano sure loves to talk about how being "modest" is a superior quality. Too bad all of his characters are anything but that.

Also once again, every strip not devoted to the characters attempting to fight or evade the king further ruins his credibility as a villain. Every filler-ish strip like this makes the comic worse regardless of content solely by existing.

colonelslime

2011-11-28, 12:45 AM

What's hilarious is that, in a better comic, I could see a conversation going something like this. The main heroes, having been through Hell (Maltak) together, decide that they want to get married; but an elaborate ceremony is out of the question due to the imminent doom hanging over everyone's heads. They opt to show their love via a small ceremony, just in case things don't work out and one of them dies.

Thing is, neither Dom nor Luna are acting like they are in any sort of peril, or even as if they feel mildly threatened by their position.

Also, Mama Deegan's ability to spy on her kids, even in this jokey fashion, is creepy. And raises questions about why she doesn't step in more often, given her apparent omniscience. If your magic has rules and matters to the plot, you can't use it for jokes without implications.

Panel 7 is good though, because it looks like someone just psychically broke Dom's neck.

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 12:50 AM

Ok, thanks you two, managed to get the first chuckle I've had in the DD thread in a long time thanks to your double whammy.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5408/lunammm.png
Mmmmyes. This praise is pleasing to Luna.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 01:12 AM

Also Momgan is sort of a controlling psychopath.

Castel

2011-11-28, 01:35 AM

... it's like the "cathedral" is made of those cheap construction blocks that 4-year-olds play with. Only, you know, as drawn by someone who doesn't quite understand perspective.

On the other hand, I thought we'd never actually get to see the "physical" place. It even has an Inappropriate Wall/Fence!

TheArsenal

2011-11-28, 01:46 AM

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5408/lunammm.png
Mmmmyes. This praise is pleasing to Luna.

Oh my god! Her mouth is devouring her face!

Anyway yeah. It was this type of Dily dallying bull**** that got celesto crazy in the first place you ****s!

Coidzor

2011-11-28, 02:04 AM

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5408/lunammm.png
Mmmmyes. This praise is pleasing to Luna.
...

...

Words fail me. @_@

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 02:06 AM

What's hilarious is that, in a better comic, I could see a conversation going something like this. The main heroes, having been through Hell (Maltak) together, decide that they want to get married; but an elaborate ceremony is out of the question due to the imminent doom hanging over everyone's heads. They opt to show their love via a small ceremony, just in case things don't work out and one of them dies.

Thing is, neither Dom nor Luna are acting like they are in any sort of peril, or even as if they feel mildly threatened by their position.
I also love that they want a "quiet and modest" ceremony at Aberthest friggin' Cathderal, main seat of the Luanian religion. Like if they were Anglicans and just happened to be passing through Cantebury Cathedral, well why not hold a quick ceremony? I'm sure the archbishop won't mind.

Plus half their guest list is either in the hospice or incarcerated there, so it's not as it's just Dom and Luna.

M84

2011-11-28, 02:11 AM

So the "cathedral" is modest? Strange, I've never heard of a "modest" cathedral. Isn't the whole point of a cathedral to show off the glory of the religion by being incredibly elaborate and fancy as opposed to a simple church? And was it really worth spending two whole panels of the strip explaining this? Then again, it's a filler between arcs strip.

On the plus side, this actually makes me look forward to the Jayden arc, since it hopefully means less screen-time for the Deegans. I don't want there to be NO screen-time, since Jayden would mutate into a pseudo-Deegan in their place.

I just hope it's not a reconciliation arc between Jayden and Milov. Or if it is, at least make them good friends instead of a couple again. They need to be their own people outside of their relationship to each other.

Zaq

2011-11-28, 02:12 AM

Ack! Spoiler that thing, would ya, Toast?! That's enough to put me off my feed!

Anyway, this is awful. This is Mookie's token "welp, better consider a semi-realistic possibility—LOL JK JUST MOVING ON AS PLANNED" strip that just proves, to me, that he totally reads at least one of the DD forums out there, no matter how he denies it. And apparently it's now canon that the inevitable and awful wedding arc is Miranda's fault.

Like I've said before, I know better than to threaten to leave, but if anything might push me over the edge, it's a mushy wedding arc. If Mookie actually had the guts to defy our expectations, have them say "you know what, Miranda? We're main characters adults, and we're just going to do what's right for us," and then they get married in four panels, well, I'd be friggin' overjoyed. It'd show some measure of awareness of his own story, it would be defying our expectations (which can only be a good thing at this point), and it would save us an interminable wedding arc that you just know is going to sound like Lynn Johnston had a hand in writing it.

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 02:18 AM

So the "cathedral" is modest? Strange, I've never heard of a "modest" cathedral. Isn't the whole point of a cathedral to show off the glory of the religion by being incredibly elaborate and fancy as opposed to a simple church?
Technically a cathedral is a church where a bishop is based. Most churches and bishops like their bling so they tend to be fancy, but if the Luanians aren't into that thing then I can buy it being reasonably plain

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

I guess Dom was expecting a multi-dimensional wedding in Asgard.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 02:27 AM

Technically a cathedral is a church where a bishop is based. Most churches and bishops like their bling so they tend to be fancy, but if the Luanians aren't into that thing then I can buy it being reasonably plain

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

I guess Dom was expecting a multi-dimensional wedding in Asgard.

It's just a chance to for Dom to be a mouth piece about how he likes "humble and modest" stuff, unlike all those slut churches.

random11

2011-11-28, 02:28 AM

Also, Mama Deegan's ability to spy on her kids, even in this jokey fashion, is creepy. And raises questions about why she doesn't step in more often, given her apparent omniscience. If your magic has rules and matters to the plot, you can't use it for jokes without implications.

I don't mind about that.
I actually think it was pretty funny even if it is a reoccurring joke.

Maybe it's because I sympathize.
I have a family like this and I could swear they have this ability even in our non-magical world...

---
It's a good thing they remember they need to worry about the beast. If only they could remember that they also need to HIDE FROM THE KING SINCE HE SHOULD KNOW WHO THEY ARE NOW!!!

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 02:36 AM

It's just a chance to for Dom to be a mouth piece about how he likes "humble and modest" stuff, unlike all those slut churches.
Those tramp Erossian churches open their doors to anyone.

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 03:02 AM

Mookie is a railroader. It really is like a crappy D&D game.

Trazoi: I demand the dying ass-shot of an Erossian church.

random11

2011-11-28, 03:37 AM

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

This is a common problem in DD.
The characters are comparing things to our world instead of to the world they live in.

M84

2011-11-28, 03:44 AM

Technically a cathedral is a church where a bishop is based. Most churches and bishops like their bling so they tend to be fancy, but if the Luanians aren't into that thing then I can buy it being reasonably plain

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

I guess Dom was expecting a multi-dimensional wedding in Asgard.

Huh, so it's simple vanity that makes so many cathedrals in the real world so fancy. Not a huge surprise.

I agree with that second part. What exactly are Dominic and Luna comparing Luanian cathedrals to? "Modest" in comparison to what exactly? In a better series we wouldn't have to ask those questions.

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 04:45 AM

Trazoi: I demand the dying ass-shot of an Erossian church.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5339/chapelodeegans.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/chapelodeegans.jpg/)

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 05:18 AM

Outstanding. Simply outstanding.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 05:45 AM

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5339/chapelodeegans.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/chapelodeegans.jpg/)

The Erossian church really did nothing for Gregory. There were certainly some lovely chapels, and he wasn't numb to what the cathedral had to offer, but the whole religion was just in his face. There was so much worship in every direction the he was overwhelmed. There was no mystique, no allure, no intrigue, no room to wonder. He had attended mass with Rachel for years. The way she worships? Never did a thing for him. But Luania? You'd never expect that under those simple churches was a religion which... yeah.

rocketpony

2011-11-28, 07:32 AM

No, no, no, no, no.
Dominic Deegan, if you were to delay your marriage while you deal with this goofball interdimensional monster as though it were the threat that you won't stop saying that it is, that would be okay. I think that reasonable people would forgive you for this.

In other news, Mominic has apparently already booked the caterers.

Johnny Blade

2011-11-28, 07:32 AM

Terraciano sure loves to talk about how being "modest" is a superior quality. Too bad all of his characters are anything but that.
The real reason for the evil eye. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-12-09)

Wait, no, that would make Miranda less of a psychopath, actually.

Forget it.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5408/lunammm.png

Seriously, that face. I read the update and had already forgotten everything in it ten seconds later, except that face.
How is it even possible to draw something like that and then look at it without just laughing at yourself and starting over, after scanning and saving it so you always have something to brighten your days of course?

TheArsenal

2011-11-28, 07:40 AM

The real reason for the evil eye. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-12-09)

My god I remember how smug and horrible the Deegans are.

Their horrible!

Gez

2011-11-28, 07:42 AM

Technically a cathedral is a church where a bishop is based. Most churches and bishops like their bling so they tend to be fancy, but if the Luanians aren't into that thing then I can buy it being reasonably plain

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

I guess Dom was expecting a multi-dimensional wedding in Asgard.

Remember Deegan Mom's tastes (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-12-09). Anything that doesn't project lazors to the sky is going to be touchingly simple and modest.

It's also the reason for the interplanar evil eye. Miranda wants his son to have the tackiest, bling-blingest wedding ever.

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 07:57 AM

Say hello to Moonface.

Oracle_Hunter

2011-11-28, 09:12 AM

Important News Post!

Dominic and Luna have had a very long engagement. I think it may be time to address that, one way or another.
A very long engagement? Has the man forgot that his own timeline? It's been, at most, two years since Dom & Luna met -- and far less than that since they've been engaged. After all, the kids in Class Action were Dominic's very first class (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-05-08) and Oh Snap took place directly after Dominic proposed.

I mean, we all know the man has no sense of chronology, but this is getting ridiculous!

Nerd-o-rama

2011-11-28, 09:25 AM

Important News Post!

A very long engagement? Has the man forgot that his own timeline? It's been, at most, two years since Dom & Luna met -- and far less than that since they've been engaged. After all, the kids in Class Action were Dominic's very first class (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-05-08) and Oh Snap took place directly after Dominic proposed.

I mean, we all know the man has no sense of chronology, but this is getting ridiculous!

He probably meant in real-time, and he's speaking from his perspective as a writer who just got married and now wants one of his self-inserts to do so as well rather than in-universe.

Also how long did their vacation last, anyway? Or Maltak?

That said, I was engaged for almost exactly a year, so it'd have to be far longer than that for me to call it "very long".

Also holy crap Oracle Hunter was three and a half years ago how the hell long have I been reading this ****ty webcomic?

Oracle_Hunter

2011-11-28, 09:36 AM

Also how long did their vacation last, anyway? Or Maltak?

That said, I was engaged for almost exactly a year, so it'd have to be far longer than that for me to call it "very long".
A year is not a very long engagement -- particularly when the total amount of time that the couple has known each other is roughly twice that.

If you want a canonical definition of a very long engagement, I think it would be 14 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guys_And_Dolls).

Anyhoo, we can't have any good idea as to how much time has really passed for anything -- but note that Maltak and Fillerfest 2010 occurred concurrently. I think we tried to figure out the timeline for DD at some point but I can't be arsed to find it :smallannoyed:

Zaq

2011-11-28, 10:09 AM

I'm pretty sure Curly did some work on determining the timeline.

Domochevsky

2011-11-28, 10:27 AM

Also Momgan is sort of a controlling psychopath.

I guess now we know where Dominic got it from. :smallcool:

We also now know where Dominic got his modesty from, isn't that right Miranda "Lightshow for the dead" Deegan?

Waaaaiiiit... humble and modest wedding? Do i smell a Mookie insert here? This might be his saving throw to not go broke for a wedding. A subtle hint/cry for help. :smallamused:

Say hello to Moonface.

Silky The Fairy approves. :smallamused:

Traab

2011-11-28, 10:34 AM

You know what? Snark all you like, I found todays comic amusing. I actually like the whole evil eye joke. I could almost see the look on mirandas face at the very suggestion. :p

Mr. McGician

2011-11-28, 11:18 AM

Technically a cathedral is a church where a bishop is based. Most churches and bishops like their bling so they tend to be fancy, but if the Luanians aren't into that thing then I can buy it being reasonably plain

However if the Luanian church is the only religion in Callan, Callanians like Dom and Luna should expect non-fancy churches. The only religions I remember are the Luanians, the werewolf circle and those orcish shamans, so all of them are quite modest.

I guess Dom was expecting a multi-dimensional wedding in Asgard.

Another problem is that once again, Mookie is telling instead of showing. He draws the church, and then he has the characters explain that it's supposed to look humble, when he could have made that clear just from the drawing itself. Maybe Mookie's art would improve if he would stop relying on text as a crutch.

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 11:34 AM

Dominic is being crushed by his own words.

Welf

2011-11-28, 11:41 AM

Say hello to Moonface.

Okay, I have to quite the thread now. PM me if you change you avatar again. :smalleek:

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 11:59 AM

I was afraid it might have that effect. Is it a joke problem or...?

Anyone else unnerved by Moonface?

Welf

2011-11-28, 12:37 PM

I was afraid it might have that effect. Is it a joke problem or...?

Anyone else unnerved by Moonface?

Uhm, it was a joke :smallredface:
I used worse avatars myself, so keep it

Fawkes

2011-11-28, 12:41 PM

I don't even see it. Did you already remove it?

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 01:02 PM

Moonface has been restored to the delight of all.

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 01:07 PM

Moonface has been restored to the delight of all.

Hooray! \o/

Johnny Blade

2011-11-28, 04:51 PM

Moonface has been restored to the delight of all.
I see you also now have the best signature that doesn't quote me.

This reminds me, by the way - anyone willing to hook me up with a SmugGreg avatar that isn't a pony (and also not a stick figure)?
I'd be really grateful and appreciative and all.

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 04:59 PM

I see you also now have the best signature that doesn't quote me.

This reminds me, by the way - anyone willing to hook me up with a SmugGreg avatar that isn't a pony (and also not a stick figure)?
I'd be really grateful and appreciative and all.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8210/smegma.png

How's this? Or is that more terrifying than smug?

Coidzor

2011-11-28, 05:04 PM

I was afraid it might have that effect. Is it a joke problem or...?

Anyone else unnerved by Moonface?

...I can't decide whether to laugh or gouge out my eyes, to be honest. I... I... I'd somehow repressed the memory of it from reading the comic and so when Toast posted it I thought it was a custom thing mocking Mookie's badness.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8210/smegma.png

How's this? Or is that more terrifying than smug?

...Darn it Toast! Now I've gotta go change.... :smallsigh:

...Amusing filename though...

T-O-E

2011-11-28, 05:11 PM

This reminds me, by the way - anyone willing to hook me up with a SmugGreg avatar that isn't a pony (and also not a stick figure)?
I'd be really grateful and appreciative and all.

We can be awful together.

Awful Bros.

Johnny Blade

2011-11-28, 05:54 PM

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8210/smegma.png

How's this? Or is that more terrifying than smug?
Well, I originally meant an all-new offering of smug not using Mookie's art, but...

We can be awful together.

Awful Bros.
...so I'm gonna use it. Thanks!

EDIT: What strip is that from again, by the way? I just realized that right now my signature could give people the idea it's your art, so keeping it like that would be an odd way of thanking you.

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 06:13 PM

Well, I originally meant an all-new offering of smug not using Mookie's art, but...

...so I'm gonna use it. Thanks!

EDIT: What strip is that from again, by the way? I just realized that right now my signature could give people the idea it's your art, so keeping it like that would be an odd way of thanking you.

This one! (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-10-07)

Hmm... now I kind of want one for myself. I'll go looking for something else equally terrifying...

Johnny Blade

2011-11-28, 06:23 PM

How about Rapechel?

EDIT: Or that would do, too, I guess. :smallbiggrin:

Toast1862

2011-11-28, 06:26 PM

How about Rapechel?

EDIT: Or that would do, too, I guess. :smallbiggrin:

There's something more suggestive and terrifying about this, but maybe I'll get Rapechel later. :smallbiggrin:

Johnny Blade

2011-11-28, 06:33 PM

I really hope Szark will get a Swordman transformation scene later so we can have a superhero avatar week at some point - the Gay Blade, Supergreg (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-08-12) and Mastectomy Woman (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-21) united in one thread.

Maybe someone could do He-Dom (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-03-30) to complete the...package.

rocketpony

2011-11-28, 09:01 PM

Hmm I thought I was coming to a comic thread in the GiantITP forums, but I appear to have stumbled into the Eye of Terror on accident.
Hmm.

M84

2011-11-28, 09:30 PM

Hmm I thought I was coming to a comic thread in the GiantITP forums, but I appear to have stumbled into the Eye of Terror on accident.
Hmm.

Pffft. Even the Eye of Terror has standards. The Slaaneshi Noise Marines would think Smug!Greg's "Facebath" songs are going overboard. And no Slaaneshi cultist would be deviant enough to find Moonface attractive.

Though I do enjoy the imagery of Kharn the Betrayer chopping them up into flesh confetti.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 09:37 PM

Speaking of Eye of Terror stuff, here's some DD Luna - CAD Hervows.jpg crossover from the SA thread.

http://i.imgur.com/HGGmw.png

AgentofOdd

2011-11-28, 10:15 PM

@Jonny & Toast
Thanks guys. Cause of you two, I had to learn how to block specific images using adblock.

Well, better here than 4chan I suppose.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-11-28, 10:45 PM

I'm amused by how disturbed people are by those. Sure, it's BAD, but it's not unbearable, for me!

Mr. McGician

2011-11-28, 10:56 PM

There's a pretty creepy greatface in this strip (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-04-21), panel two.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 11:06 PM

There's a pretty creepy greatface in this strip (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-04-21), panel two.

The strip right after this one the strip that angered me the most of that arc :(

"Oh Luna, you're so sexy when you act like you can do things on your own."
*Luna immediately goes and asks a male joke character to do everything instead*

PhantomFox

2011-11-28, 11:14 PM

One of these days we're going to have to steal Curly's rants or make up some new ones and post a Let's Read of DD on youtube.

Trazoi

2011-11-28, 11:20 PM

I'm amused by how disturbed people are by those. Sure, it's BAD, but it's not unbearable, for me!
I'm not fond of the DeeganSquare avatars because they all look the same. At least Ponytars are usually different colours.

The strip right after this one the strip that angered me the most of that arc :(

"Oh Luna, you're so sexy when you act like you can do things on your own."
*Luna immediately goes and asks a male joke character to do everything instead*
We did an analysis of the Maltak arc, supposedly where Luna is the great hero, and consensus was all she did was fight Hirek and free Donovan from the Shintula (and that last one might have been the Nakta). The rest of the arc was her stumbling around randomly, getting drugged, strangled, stabbed, possessed by the Nakta and imprisoned underground by the main villain.

@PhantomFox: SA was doing something like that called Dominic Drinkin.

Bobikus

2011-11-28, 11:51 PM

"Do pretty much nothing but get hailed as the big hero because you're a first caste character."

Sounds like Terracciano writing.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-11-29, 12:02 AM

I'm not fond of the DeeganSquare avatars because they all look the same. At least Ponytars are usually different colours.

Are you saying FiM has bad art?

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-478/100251d1301351666-my-little-pony-friendship-magic-orbital-friendship-beam.jpg

I still gotta finish the 6th episode... I'm not even anywhere close to 16.

Trazoi

2011-11-29, 12:09 AM

What's annoyed me is that Suyan the orc shaman apprentice inadvertantly goes through a proper Hero's Journey, realising his home is flawed and cast out, finding new friends, facing challenges and coming back to redeem his tribe. It's a crummy Hero's Journey but a least it is one. But in the ending he's a mere footnote.

Or it could have been about Melna and the Crone. Or more about Outrage Chief. Heck, even Jacob got in on the learning important lessons thing. Luna did and learnt bupkis but claims all the glory because blah blah Chosen One blah blah.

AND HUK THAK NEVER WANTED TO KILL MELNA!

@Jade Dragon: I'm saying a constant wall of line art Ponytars would be overwelming. :smalltongue:

Edit: Oh look what's here:
============
Sneaky Gate (http://dominic-deegan.com/comics/20111129.gif)
Future Link (http://dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2011-11-29)

So the "evil eye" wasn't merely comedic effect, Miranda really is spying on them at all times. :smallsigh:

Settle in everyone, looks like we're gonna be in cheap sitcom mode for a while yet...

Toast1862

2011-11-29, 12:23 AM

Rappy

2011-11-29, 12:32 AM

Maybe it's the fact that momgan and donovan look EXACTLY like dominic and luna genderswapped.
Personally, I think Donovan looks more like the horrid lovechild of Jayden and Smugreg.

Bobikus

2011-11-29, 12:38 AM

Trazoi

2011-11-29, 12:49 AM

This is another thing like Dom being "working class despite his family being powerful and influential" where Terracciano wants it both ways right? Donovan here is a bum and just a lowly musician so Terracciano can have a "parents approve of inter-class relationship" moment, despite Donovan being not only world famous as a musician but as a legendary swordsman.
But he's an orphan raised by elves! Completely out of Miranda's league!

Edit: Since I dredged up Greg's cast bio, I might as well dredge up some more to show Dominic's humble origins.
Editx2: Bio says those two are Victor and Dora Deegan. Have they appeared before?

DONOVAN & MIRANDA DEEGAN

Donovan Deegan is an accomplished swordsman and a charming bard.
Miranda Deegan is an Archmage of the Fifth Circle and headmistress of the School for Arcane Arts in Quiral.
They have saved the world... and one another.

BRIEF HISTORY
Miranda was the only child of Victor and Dora Deegan, two talented wizards. She was an immensely bright child who adored her parents and their gift for magic. She was thrilled to learn she had the capacity for magic as well, and as soon as she was old enough, enrolled in an academy. Miranda, who earned thick glasses early and looked rather boyish, never attracted much attention from her classmates. She buried herself in her studies, devouring everything she could about spells, arcane formulae, potions, wands, and so on. She excelled in class, but spent much of her childhood alone.
Donovan was orphaned when he was a baby. He was found in the elven kingdom of ShaLandira, where a compassionate old elf took him in. To the long-lived elf, Donovan grew quickly. He was a spritely boy who loved to laugh, sing and dance around. This worked well for the old elf, since he was a retired musician and storyteller. Having no children of his own, he taught Donovan everything he knew about music, writing, storytelling, and fancy swordsmanship. When he was old enough, he was sent down the true path of the bard... wandering.
Miranda was attending an advanced academy in Prontus when she met the wandering Donovan. She had grown into a tomboyish intellectual, fond of turtlenecks, long skirts, books and magic spells. He had grown into a dashing young man, fond of bright colors, big smiles, music and dancing. They hated one another at first sight. She saw him as a homeless hedonist with no ambitions or future. He saw her as a boring prude with no sense of fun or frivolity. They thought they'd never see one another again... but as luck would have it, Miranda was attending class in the city, and business was good for Donovan in Prontus, so they kept running into one another. In shops. In coffee houses. In Pixie Square. After a while, dirty looks turned to polite nods, polite nods turned to genuine greetings, and genuine greetings turned into friendship.
They were almost complete opposites, but they clicked. Miranda needed Donovan's spontaneity and silliness. Donovan needed Miranda's common sense and intellect. They shared many adventures, and their fondness for one another blossomed. They taught each other many things... about friendship, compassion, trust, and eventually love. They were two lonely souls who had found their other half, and when they became one, there was no separating them.
Their adventures and accomplishments are simply too numerous to count. They rode with the Kelsheen of the Western Plains. They've entertained the fabled Dragon Courts of the Misty Valley. They vanquished an ambitious Demon Lord, but lost a dear friend. They did battle with a chaos cult and visited one of the cornerstones of reality. They spoke with the world's first necromancer. They did battle with financial problems. They overcame arguments and lovers' spats. They became a recognized and respected team. They fell in love and married (Donovan, being an orphan, had no last name of his own, and took Miranda's family name). They had three very unique children. They defended their home against a devastating attack that changed their boys forever. They have tried to be the best parents they could. They rebuilt the slum city of Quiral into a center of learning. The list goes on and on.
During it all, their love and need for one another has served as an example of dedication and affection for everyone who knows them.

CURRENT STATUS
Donovan and Miranda currently reside in Quiral, where Miranda has founded her own magic academy. Their lives had fallen into a fairly peaceful routine until Lars Sturtz, father of Szark Sturtz, called on them for help. They left Quiral, where a wicked Infernomancer killed three students looking for Miranda! They saved Szark and Dominic, then sent the Infernomancer to a screaming, horrible fate. They're back in Quiral now, helping the school and students recover while another threat rears its chaotic head...