Feats for Monk Question 3.P

[Tokuhara]

This isn't wat y'all think. I'm not looking for "Why aren't you playing an Unarmed Swordsage?!?1" or "Monks suck". I'm looking to ask:

What are some good feats (aside from Superior) that require Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.

The build using this is:

Pandaren Quinggong Spirit Monk of 4 Winds 20

[utherphoenyx]

snatch arrows deflect arrows leading into infinite deflect along with deflect ray

[Tokuhara]

snatch arrows deflect arrows leading into infinite deflect along with deflect ray

So I have to take 3 kinda crummy feats for 1 decent feat? And my DM rules that you cannot catch bullets, crossbow bolts, and thrown weapons with Snatch Arrows

[utherphoenyx]

actually in the phb snatch arrows allows for you to grab a ranged attack the you quailify to deflect e.g. bolts javilins etc. well that suxs um i know there is a few more like eagle claw attack flying kick and also fiery ki fist and fiery ki blast

[NeoSeraphi]

I dunno how good Stunning Fist is in Pathfinder, but it's decent in 3.5

Stunning Fist
Extra Stunning
Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
Weakening Touch
Freezing the Lifeblood


Other than that, there's Improved Grapple, Eagle Claw Strike, Versatile Unarmed Strike.

[utherphoenyx]

I dunno how good Stunning Fist is in Pathfinder, but it's decent in 3.5

Stunning Fist
Extra Stunning
Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
Weakening Touch
Freezing the Lifeblood


Other than that, there's Improved Grapple, Eagle Claw Strike, Versatile Unarmed Strike.
thank you brain feels like jelly atm

[Tvtyrant]

Snap kick allows you to hit twice anytime you would hit once. This includes Attacks of Opportunity, standard attacks, etc. The best use of this is to pump your strength, and then improved trip. So on an AoO, you can trip the enemy and hit them twice.

[sonofzeal]

So I have to take 3 kinda crummy feats for 1 decent feat? And my DM rules that you cannot catch bullets, crossbow bolts, and thrown weapons with Snatch Arrows
Please ask your DM to reread the feats in question.


Deflect Arrows [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit
You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
The first bolded bit implies ANY ranged attack. The second makes this explicit; only "unusually massive" and "spells" don't qualify. Now, your DM may take a dim view of "unusually massive", but certainly bolts and bullets aren't in that category.

Also...


Snatch Arrows [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 15, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit
When using the Deflect Arrows feat you may catch the weapon instead of just deflecting it. Thrown weapons can immediately be thrown back at the original attacker (even though it isn’t your turn) or kept for later use.

You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat.
This further makes it explicit that thrown weapons qualify for use with these feats.

Your DM is not making an interpretation of RAW, he is straight up making houserules that destroy any utility "Snatch Arrows" ever had and objectively weaken one of the weakest classes in the game. He has no case from which to argue the feats do or should work his way.

Walking through the relevant texts with him, step by step, should help. If he still doesn't allow it, I'd reconsider playing a Monk at all - a DM who goes out of his way to add houserules nerfing Monks probably has a very warped (but surprisingly common) idea of game balance... and more relevantly, is willing to twist the rules to penalize the classes he sees as too strong and likely reward the classes he sees as weak.

I'd find out what he regards as weak, and play that. Under that sort of DM, playing a Monk is simply not worth the aggravation.

[Tokuhara]

I dunno how good Stunning Fist is in Pathfinder, but it's decent in 3.5

Stunning Fist
Extra Stunning
Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
Weakening Touch
Freezing the Lifeblood


Other than that, there's Improved Grapple, Eagle Claw Strike, Versatile Unarmed Strike.

Versatile is a shoe-in, I'm dropping my free stunning fist for the ability to do energy damage, and I also plan on grabbing Touch of Golden Ice to do other cool things. Also grabbing Superior Unarmed Strike to do more damage.

I plan on combining this with a set of enchanted Brass Knuckles made by our party's Artificer and Master Craftsman. The goal is to make people's faces go away after I throw my Pan-Spear to the side

Edit:
Please ask your DM to reread the feats in question.


The first bolded bit implies ANY ranged attack. The second makes this explicit; only "unusually massive" and "spells" don't qualify. Now, your DM may take a dim view of "unusually massive", but certainly bolts and bullets aren't in that category.

Also...


This further makes it explicit that thrown weapons qualify for use with these feats.

Your DM is not making an interpretation of RAW, he is straight up making houserules that destroy any utility "Snatch Arrows" ever had and objectively weaken one of the weakest classes in the game. He has no case from which to argue the feats do or should work his way.

Walking through the relevant texts with him, step by step, should help. If he still doesn't allow it, I'd reconsider playing a Monk at all - a DM who goes out of his way to add houserules nerfing Monks probably has a very warped (but surprisingly common) idea of game balance... and more relevantly, is willing to twist the rules to penalize the classes he sees as too strong and likely reward the classes he sees as weak.

I'd find out what he regards as weak, and play that. Under that sort of DM, playing a Monk is simply not worth the aggravation.

So hang on... I can catch bullets???!!! With one feat??? And nobody caught this... So a Thri-Kreen cannot be killed by a gun... I had no idea Neo was a Thri-Kreen Psion...

[sonofzeal]

So hang on... I can catch bullets???!!! With one feat??? And nobody caught this... So a Thri-Kreen cannot be killed by a gun... I had no idea Neo was a Thri-Kreen Psion...
You can catch bullets... if you're aware of them, have an empty hand, and there's only one bullet a round. So not "bullets" exactly. Still pretty Matrix though.

[Tokuhara]

So far, my feats are:

Versatile Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, Punishing Kick, Elemental Fist (DM said I can get both this and Punishing Kick, since Monks are underpowered and "It's just a bonus feat"), Touch of Golden Ice, Superior Unarmed Strike.

Am I looking good so far?

[stack]

Since you are playing PF, the dimensional dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish) line is supposed to be good. The third feats allows you to be Nightcrawler (X2 movie style).

ed - doesn't require improved unarmed strike, but still good for a monk w/ abundant step. The various style feats can be fun too.

ed 2 - By spirit do you mean hungry ghost? That would conflict with four winds.

[Tokuhara]

Since you are playing PF, the dimensional dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish) line is supposed to be good. The third feats allows you to be Nightcrawler (X2 movie style).

ed - doesn't require improved unarmed strike, but still good for a monk w/ abundant step. The various style feats can be fun too.

I lose Abundant Step for Slow Time, so I don't qualify for Dimensional Dervish :smallfrown:

Basically, I need pounce. No Barbarian dips, since DM is an Alignment Nazi who hates the idea of a Barbarian becoming civilized, and of a Monk going feral, so he banned multiclassing between the two. Period

Edit: Yes, and DM allowed it, since only Stunning Fist is the overlap. He just said, "You get both feats, since monks suck"

[stack]

The monk levels are minimum, so you could still take abundant step in place of a higher level ability, quivering palm in this case as diamond soul is replaced by hungry ghost.

[Tokuhara]

The monk levels are minimum, so you could still take abundant step in place of a higher level ability, quivering palm in this case as diamond soul is replaced by hungry ghost.

I'm guessing nobody likes Quivering Palm on these forums. I don't understand why. It's Monk's save or die ability (or with nonlethal in our group it is save or suck, since you aren't killed, but temporarily paralyzed and knocked out. Our monk used to use it on one guard named Bob the Vigilant. He would get snuck up on by the party's Monk/Rogue, and get a nonlethal SA/Quivering Palm and wound take him out of harm's way, since he had a family of 96 to feed)

[Tokuhara]

So Abundant Step instead of Quivering Palm, Something for Tongue of the Sun and Moon, and Immortality at 20th level?

[stack]

I only suggested quivering palm because it looked like the next available choice to replace. You would want abundant step ASAP to get the feats in before 20.

[Curious]

Replace TotSaM with Cold Ice Strike for more action economy.

[Tokuhara]

Replace TotSaM with Cold Ice Strike for more action economy.

That works.

So, I'm getting:

Quinggong:

Barkskin
True Strike
Gaseous Form
Abundant Step
Cold Iron Strike

Hungry Ghost:

Punishing Kick
Steal Ki
Life Funnel
Life from a Stone
Sipping Demon

Monk of 4 Winds:

Elemental Fist
Slow Time
Aspect of the Ki-Rin
Immortality

With Pandaren:

- +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
- Medium size.
- A pandaren's base land speed is 20 feet (30 feet
- Low-light vision.
- Racial Skills: A pandaren character has a +8
racial bonus on Climb checks.
- Racial Feats: A pandaren character gains feats
according to its character class.
- +2 natural armor bonus.
- Special Qualities (see above): Quadrupedal
movement, weapon familiarity (pan-spears and
shaktani swords).
when quadrupedal) and base climb speed is 15 feet.
- Automatic Language: Common.

and Arctic:

- +2 Con -2 Cha
- +1 to saves vs. Cold, -1 to saves vs. Fire
- Ray of Frost 1/day
- +2 Survival


am I doing it right?

[Telonius]

I'm guessing nobody likes Quivering Palm on these forums. I don't understand why. It's Monk's save or die ability (or with nonlethal in our group it is save or suck, since you aren't killed, but temporarily paralyzed and knocked out. Our monk used to use it on one guard named Bob the Vigilant. He would get snuck up on by the party's Monk/Rogue, and get a nonlethal SA/Quivering Palm and wound take him out of harm's way, since he had a family of 96 to feed)

Generally:

- The Monk doesn't get it until level 15.
- Lots of things are flat-out immune to it.
- It targets Fortitude, which tends to be monsters' strongest save.
- You can only do it once per week.
- You need to actually hit the monster's AC in order to trigger it.

[Tokuhara]

Generally:

- The Monk doesn't get it until level 15.
- Lots of things are flat-out immune to it.
- It targets Fortitude, which tends to be monsters' strongest save.
- You can only do it once per week.
- You need to actually hit the monster's AC in order to trigger it.

Gotcha... So it is crap.