(PF) So...a wizard can identify items alll day long?

[Ozreth]

I'm running the Beginner Box for my FLGS and have been learning some of the changes that PF brought along the way.

It appears that Detect Magic now also identifies the item. And since 0 level spells are now "At will" the wizard will always know what items are. I really hope I'm reading something wrong.

[Big Fau]

I'm running the Beginner Box for my FLGS and have been learning some of the changes that PF brought along the way.

It appears that Detect Magic now also identifies the item. And since 0 level spells are now "At will" the wizard will always know what items are. I really hope I'm reading something wrong.

Is there a problem with this?

It's still possible to deceive the detection, but this removed one really annoying restriction.

[GoatBoy]

Having to expend a prepared spell and 100gp for EVERY item you ran across always felt a little silly to me.

It's a PITA at low levels and trivial at high levels.

[Blisstake]

Not sure about the beginer box, but in the core rules you need to make a spellcraft check to identify the item (which you can't repeat).

[Ozreth]

Having to expend a prepared spell and 100gp for EVERY item you ran across always felt a little silly to me.

It's a PITA at low levels and trivial at high levels.

Meh, I enjoy seeing the players argue over who should take a sip from the bottle to make sure whats inside is safe. Or putting on a pair of boots and not finding out that they are feather fall until they are pushed off a cliff, expecting to fall to their demise.

The mystery, danger, and risk vs. reward I suppose. And if you can make it back to town to have you items identified, you deserve the reward of owning them. At least at low levels I prefer it this way.

[Greymane]

Meh, I enjoy seeing the players argue over who should take a sip from the bottle to make sure whats inside is safe. Or putting on a pair of boots and not finding out that they are feather fall until they are pushed off a cliff, expecting to fall to their demise.

The mystery, danger, and risk vs. reward I suppose. And if you can make it back to town to have you items identified, you deserve the reward of owning them. At least at low levels I prefer it this way.

And while I like what you're saying, it's great; in theory. I've yet to find a group that didn't feverishly identify what they were putting on before using it. It's less "I wonder what these mystery boots will do in the future!", and more "*Groan* Okay, who's shelling out the money for the Identify? And we'll just gloss over that whole hour and say we wait. Okay? Okay."

[Kantolin]

Or putting on a pair of boots and not finding out that they are feather fall until they are pushed off a cliff, expecting to fall to their demise.

In most games like that, nobody ever put on a pair of boots when they didn't know what it did, and those people who did do things like that were punished horribly and thus were trained not to do that and be rather focused on identifying everything before you put it on.

I... I guess it was amusing when our party fighter was stuck with a kinda random cursed item and thus more or less unable to play for awhile.

I suppose, if the DM didn't like cursed items, I might be willing to try on random things once in awhile, but I'd rather those be the exception rather than the norm.

[MukkTB]

Our party won't actually touch something that we've identified as magic until we've figured out what it does. Getting cursed is the best way to get to sit out of the game. Not fun. And I don't see many minor curses. No pants of crotch itchiness or helmet of sneezing. Its more like boots of fall down and cant get up, and scarf of become a lobotomized zombie.

[Doc Roc]

I'm just going to turn that treasure into gold at the fastest possible speed and best possible rate anyway, because I seriously doubt you got me what my Wizard wanted. Ugh, he's just so picky, and he always knows when you buy him a knock-off purse.

He owns like, three prada spell component pouches.

[Thiyr]

This is why I love the artificer's monocle in 3.5, ends up being pretty much the same thing for something like 1k. This just seems like it saves a bit of money. And if you like hiding the nature of item, make them non-standard items and make that give a circumstantial bonus to the spellcraft check to ID the item.

[Baroncognito]

Not sure about the beginer box, but in the core rules you need to make a spellcraft check to identify the item (which you can't repeat).

You can make a spellcraft check to identify an object once per day. You can make an appraise check to determine the value of an object just once.

[Coidzor]

Like finding a problem with the party having access to ye olde cheap wand of cure light wounds or lesser vigor, this is kinda making a mountain out of a mole hill. It makes it so you can have items from the very beginning that the party can actually mechanically figure out rather than forcing the DM to randomly decide on a price for an unidentified magical object or have to shove in a bag, and probably forget about, until they can afford the cost of identify... or a spare day for the cleric to cast it for free anyway.

[Karuth]

I don't know if this is a house rule or not, but in our games items have obvious effects (easily identifiable) and hidden effects (like curses or additional effects).

So you could have a cursed item have a 2 DCs. One to determine what magical item it appears to be and the (higher) DC to find it is actually cursed.

I found a belt of Strength once that also allowed me to grow once per day. I didn't know about the grow effect until several sessions later. Woulda been much useful.

[Taelas]

Meh, I enjoy seeing the players argue over who should take a sip from the bottle to make sure whats inside is safe.

:smallconfused:

What does this have to do with Identify? You use Spellcraft to identify potions in 3.5E. (Yes, you CAN use the spell, but why would you waste 100gp to identify a potion when you can do so for free?)

[Doc Roc]

:smallconfused:

What does this have to do with Identify? You use Spellcraft to identify potions in 3.5E. (Yes, you CAN use the spell, but why would you waste 100gp to identify a potion when you can do so for free?)

Technically, it's not mechanically obvious that a sip of a potion should do anything big. The stuff is single use! If sips worked, every day we'd be jus' sippin'. Sippin'.


Sippin'.

[HunterOfJello]

Most smart groups in 3.5 would eventually grab an Eternal Wand of Identify or an Artificer's Monocle once they'd gotten out of low levels in order to be able to identify all the magical items they've come across.


Even if you can cast Detect Magic whenever you like in PF the spell still takes 3 rounds to get its full effect and then takes a Knowledge (Arcana) check to identify the type of aura or a Spellcraft check to identify the properties of the item.

I honestly like the idea that to figure out what an item does you have to do a Spellcraft check of (15 + item's caster level). That means that a CL 20 item would have a DC 35 spellcraft check and would be very difficult for a normal PC to figure out.

[Coidzor]

That means that a CL 20 item would have a DC 35 spellcraft check and would be very difficult for a normal PC to figure out.

Depends on what you mean by a "normal PC." Level 12 wizard, 12 ranks + 3 class skill bonus + 6-7 int bonus = +23-24 to the check, so a roll of 11-12 would get it, lower if aid another can apply here (can see cases for and against) or one is an elf or one has the magical aptitude feat or another form of boost like a masterwork tool or a magic item that granted a bonus to the skill check. With identify (no costly material component now), it's a gimme unless the caster has no other bonuses, an int bonus of 6, and rolls a nat 1.

That's 8 levels lower than the item and still quite capable of identifying it. 10th level wizards are similarly able to use their 1st level spell slots for identify pretty freely, especially since it explicitly lasts long enough for them to identify as many items as they have caster levels. 10 + 3 + 6 + 10 = 29, 6 or better gets it.

[Psyren]

You think it was annoying for wizards? Try being a psion and needing a whole damn day per item. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/identifyPsionic.htm)


Technically, it's not mechanically obvious that a sip of a potion should do anything big. The stuff is single use! If sips worked, every day we'd be jus' sippin'. Sippin'.


Sippin'.

I thought sipping (or rather, tasting) was how you identified potions. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm#identifyingPotions)

The rules behind this method don't seem fleshed out though.

[Psyren]

You think it was annoying for wizards? Try being a psion and needing a whole damn day per item. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/identifyPsionic.htm)


Technically, it's not mechanically obvious that a sip of a potion should do anything big. The stuff is single use! If sips worked, every day we'd be jus' sippin'. Sippin'.


Sippin'.

I thought sipping (or rather, tasting) was how you identified potions. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm#identifyingPotions)

The rules behind this method don't seem fleshed out though.


Meh, I enjoy seeing the players argue over who should take a sip from the bottle to make sure whats inside is safe. Or putting on a pair of boots and not finding out that they are feather fall until they are pushed off a cliff, expecting to fall to their demise.

The mystery, danger, and risk vs. reward I suppose. And if you can make it back to town to have you items identified, you deserve the reward of owning them. At least at low levels I prefer it this way.

You still have a chance of getting your sadistic jollies player uncertainty moments. In PF, all "Identify" does is boost your spellcraft check, so there's still a chance that they'll fail.

[Blisstake]

You can make a spellcraft check to identify an object once per day. You can make an appraise check to determine the value of an object just once.

Right, I should have mentioned that. I meant not repeatable by just spamming Detect Magic.

[Doc Roc]

Oh my goodness, Psyren. Our sippin' lifestyle is canonical!

[Taelas]

You can't use that method to identify potions you've never encountered before, seeing as it's dependent on recognizing something you've tasted before. It's also not a certain method, really.

Spellcraft, on the other hand, can identify any potion just with a DC 25 check.

[Doc Roc]

You can't use that method to identify potions you've never encountered before, seeing as it's dependent on recognizing something you've tasted before. It's also not a certain method, really.

Spellcraft, on the other hand, can identify any potion just with a DC 25 check.

Why must you steal from me this joy?

[Daftendirekt]

You think it was annoying for wizards? Try being a psion and needing a whole damn day per item. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/identifyPsionic.htm)

Yeah, but at least it's free.

[Psyren]

Yeah, but at least it's free.

So I save 100g per day, in exchange for being useless at adventuring. I'm rich! :smalltongue:

(50g using MiC rules)

[Doc Roc]

So I save 100g per day, in exchange for being useless at adventuring. I'm rich! :smalltongue:

(50g using MiC rules)

And you spend your self-respect.

[chadmeister]

It's less "I wonder what these mystery boots will do in the future!", and more "*Groan* Okay, who's shelling out the money for the Identify? And we'll just gloss over that whole hour and say we wait. Okay? Okay."

We always seem to end up with unidentified potions. When we finally deal with them. "I've got green potion written here, what's it identify as?" and the DM has to look through his notes, "When did you get that one?" "I think we were fighting those gnolls, It says Faint Conjuration" "Uh... cure light wounds?"

[Treblain]

Cloistered Cleric can cast Identify with no material cost.

[Psyren]

DFA can Identify at-will as well, all day long. Warlocks can pick up that invocation via the Infernal Adept feat.

I think Incarnates can Identify at-will too, not sure. Can Binders do it?

[killem2]

Could you tack on that spell to a ring with charges and then just have it recharged every so often?

[Coidzor]

We always seem to end up with unidentified potions. When we finally deal with them. "I've got green potion written here, what's it identify as?" and the DM has to look through his notes, "When did you get that one?" "I think we were fighting those gnolls, It says Faint Conjuration" "Uh... cure light wounds?"

We just go with a general rule where potions are identical to all others of their type unless deliberately made otherwise (or they're weird or alien in origin), so once we've identified what bull's strength looks like and smells like, we know what it is and can move on, especially if we've already got potions in our possession that match up with our loot haul.

Provided it's not a plot point in the story for whatever reason, it's just a headache for the DM and the players to bother with things like poison in loot anyway, since it's usually not very plausible considering they mostly come from the recently deceased corpses of people who only carried them because they might have cause to use them.

[Endarire]

I'm not a fan of mystery items. It feels so... Gygaxian. I like the more modern approach of self-identifying items so I can get on with life.

[navar100]

What a tragedy it must be for some DMs' games that players actually know what their magic items do. How dare players know stuff!

[Slipperychicken]

In the games I've played in, PCs automatically know what items do. I like to think that all the potions and scrolls are labelled, that magic items have their command words written on the side, that weapons likewise have runes or something to identify their properties. It would be rather irresponsible to leave unlabelled potions lying around, right?

[Big Fau]

In the games I've played in, PCs automatically know what items do. I like to think that all the potions and scrolls are labelled, that magic items have their command words written on the side, that weapons likewise have runes or something to identify their properties. It would be rather irresponsible to leave unlabelled potions lying around, right?

Unbeknownst to you, every item in your DM's campaign comes with an IKEA-published instruction manual.

[Coidzor]

Unbeknownst to you, every item in your DM's campaign comes with an IKEA-published instruction manual.

Makes sense, they've already got a line of tarrasques.

[Rubik]

You think it was annoying for wizards? Try being a psion and needing a whole damn day per item. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/identifyPsionic.htm)Linked Power FTW, baby. It goes off next round, and only costed anywhere between a standard to an immediate action this round.