Cha or Wis to AC?

[Snowbluff]

So, I got my little ol' Half-Nymph evil Cleric, and he has high Wis and Cha.

For Wis, getting AC out of it is easy with an item, the Monk's belt.

Now, I wonder, is their a way to do something similar with my Cha?

[Tar Palantir]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

[Morph Bark]

One level in Battledancer, if you're not going to wear armor anyway. (Do you need to lack armor to benefit from the Belt?)

[Baldin]

Belt, Monk’s

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

I dont see how u can add your wisdom to your AC with this. It only stated u get the AC bonus of a monk of 5th level(which is +1) it doesnt say anywhere u gain any other skills of a monk (so neither do you get the Wis to AC)

or am i doing it wrong?

[Hirax]

or am i doing it wrong?

"If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus."

Look up the text of the AC bonus class feature of the monk. A monk's belt gives you everything there, wisdom to AC and all.

[JaronK]

There's a Paladin variant that trades Cha to saves for Cha to AC. If you could combine that with the PrC Paladin variant and one of the evil Paladin variants, you could do it that way.

JaronK

[KillianHawkeye]

Belt, Monk’s

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

I dont see how u can add your wisdom to your AC with this. It only stated u get the AC bonus of a monk of 5th level(which is +1) it doesnt say anywhere u gain any other skills of a monk (so neither do you get the Wis to AC)

or am i doing it wrong?

Ur doing it wrong. Monk's belt gives you this:


AC Bonus (Ex)

When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

[Zombimode]

One level in Battledancer

Source? I cant find them in the Wizards Prestige Class index. There is a blade dancer from OA though.

[Flickerdart]

Source? I cant find them in the Wizards Prestige Class index. There is a blade dancer from OA though.
It's a base class from Dragon Magazine Compendium.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I suggest going the CHA route as for some reason there is a way to use Cha for everything!!! Just check the X stat to y bonus and you will see.

[Tokuhara]

I wish for feats that add Strength and Intelligence to AC so I don't have to dip out...

Imagine a Character with decent ability scores (all positive bonus) with every ability score to AC.

[Dazed&Confused]

The Mystic Wanderer can add his CHA to AC.

[Morph Bark]

Imagine a Character with decent ability scores (all positive bonus) with every ability score to AC.

If they also apply to touch or flat-footed AC, then yes, it's nice. You likely won't be boosting all your stats late-game/high-level though, only two of them maybe.

You can replace Monk's Wis to AC for Int with a feat though.

[Gullintanni]

There's a Paladin variant that trades Cha to saves for Cha to AC. If you could combine that with the PrC Paladin variant and one of the evil Paladin variants, you could do it that way.

JaronK

It's a sub-level from CoV iirc.

[Flickerdart]

It's a sub-level from CoV iirc.
Berronar Valkyrie, IIRC; but you only get that AC bonus if you meet a particular condition, something about standing next to a threatened ally, I think.

[Tokuhara]

Berronar Valkyrie, IIRC; but you only get that AC bonus if you meet a particular condition, something about standing next to a threatened ally, I think.

And being a Female Dwarf

[Flickerdart]

And being a Female Dwarf
That's nothing a few PAOs to the head won't solve.

[Keneth]

The monk belt conundrum was actually one of those classic D&D arguments where the two sides could never come to terms as to what the actual rules are. Luckily it was cleared up in the official FAQ although I still don't give my players Wis bonus when wearing it because it's just a cheap trick for druids and clerics and they're strong enough as it is.

As far as charisma goes, I was really kinda hoping I would see an item or class that would grant Unearthly Grace (as that of a Nymph or Astral Stalker) to the character but there was never any official way (apart from actually playing those races or an illithid) to get it.

[Hirax]

The monk belt conundrum was actually one of those classic D&D arguments where the two sides could never come to terms as to what the actual rules are. Luckily it was cleared up in the official FAQ although I still don't give my players Wis bonus when wearing it because it's just a cheap trick for druids and clerics and they're strong enough as it is.


What? Why wouldn't they just wear conventional armor for a fraction of the cost? If they want to throw their money away let them.

[Keneth]

What? Why wouldn't they just wear conventional armor for a fraction of the cost? If they want to throw their money away let them. You're joking, right? Because an armor comes with penalties (movement, skills, weight), is static (not counting magic vestment), doesn't count against touch/incorporeal attacks etc. With periapts of wisdom and spells like owl's insight, your wisdom can skyrocket very high, very fast, which means that for a meager 13,000gp you get the equivalent of a very decent heavy armor with bonus perks and none of the penalties. If they want monk's armor bonus, they should multiclass into a monk, otherwise I want a paladin's helmet which gives me divine grace. <_<

[Flickerdart]

You're joking, right? Because an armor comes with penalties (movement, skills, weight), is static (not counting magic vestment), doesn't count against touch/incorporeal attacks etc. With periapts of wisdom and spells like owl's insight, your wisdom can skyrocket very high, very fast, which means that for a meager 13,000gp you get the equivalent of a very decent heavy armor with bonus perks and none of the penalties. If they want monk's armor bonus, they should multiclass into a monk, otherwise I want a paladin's helmet which gives me divine grace. <_<
It is far easier to boost AC than it is to boost saves. Divine Grace is better than AC Bonus every day of the week.

[Keneth]

Obviously, but not the point. I just don't think that the price of monk's belt reflects the benefit, especially when it tends to be used by everyone except monks. :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

You're joking, right? Because an armor comes with penalties (movement, skills, weight), is static (not counting magic vestment), doesn't count against touch/incorporeal attacks etc. With periapts of wisdom and spells like owl's insight, your wisdom can skyrocket very high, very fast, which means that for a meager 13,000gp you get the equivalent of a very decent heavy armor with bonus perks and none of the penalties. If they want monk's armor bonus, they should multiclass into a monk, otherwise I want a paladin's helmet which gives me divine grace. <_<

You're joking, right? If I ever play a character that can't add a mithral chain shirt and still be in the light load range, then that character is a guy with robes and a pointy hat.

[IdleMuse]

As a cleric, Divine Shield is probably what you want to be going for, unless you're spending all your turns on DMM cheese.

[Flickerdart]

Divine Shield takes a standard action to use, making it a pretty bad use of your action, since you could have cast a spell instead. It is far more useful for Paladins.

[Snowbluff]

You're joking, right? If I ever play a character that can't add a mithral chain shirt and still be in the light load range, then that character is a guy with robes and a pointy hat.

Luminous Armor with Magic Vestments. I technically can't be armored while using the belt, but I have a ruling from my DM that Luminous armor doesn't give a penalty.

[IdleMuse]

Divine Shield takes a standard action to use, making it a pretty bad use of your action, since you could have cast a spell instead. It is far more useful for Paladins.

Derp, didn't see that.

The Champions of Valor Paladin sublevel isn't the Valkyrie, can't see anything in there about cha-to-ac. Later in the book there's Red Falcon paladin, which is probably what you're thinking of (much weaker fluff prereqs), lets you add cha to AC for a round as an immediate action, but only a number of times a day equal to half your class level, which is pretty terrible, given that it replaces Divine Grace, which as has been point out, is pretty damn good (although easy to get from other dips), and probably only gets into a useful number of uses/day if you go full prestige paladin.

[Keneth]

You're joking, right? If I ever play a character that can't add a mithral chain shirt and still be in the light load range, then that character is a guy with robes and a pointy hat.And yet, chain shirt is a +9 bonus to AC at best which would cost you 25k + the mithral component. You can get a far better bonus for half the price, so why would you want one of those?

[JaronK]

You're joking, right? If I ever play a character that can't add a mithral chain shirt and still be in the light load range, then that character is a guy with robes and a pointy hat.

I've totally been there with a Rogue. Halfling, to be precise, with low strength. So I went with Shadowsilk Leather Armor due to it being cheap and very light weight.

JaronK

[Hirax]

I'd rather fill my belt slot with a belt of battle, too. With how easy optimizing AC is, I'd rather put my belt slot to better use, except in very niche situations.

[Tar Palantir]

And yet, chain shirt is a +9 bonus to AC at best which would cost you 25k + the mithral component. You can get a far better bonus for half the price, so why would you want one of those?

Because armor is useful for a lot more than AC. There are all kinds of useful armor enhancements that are extremely valuable; Soulfire, Freedom, the various Fortifications, Mind Armor, and Greater Blurring, to name a few of the top picks. Hell, I can't remember the last time I had a character wearing armor with an enhancement bonus higher than +1 (excepting clerics with Chained Magic Vestment, of course).

[Tokuhara]

Why not have them both (Cha and Wis to AC)? Monk's Belt + 1 level of Battledancer= 3 ability scores to AC (Dex, Wis, & Cha).

[Hirax]

Eh, there are a lot of other good belts is the other problem, like belts of battle.

[JaronK]

And yet, chain shirt is a +9 bonus to AC at best which would cost you 25k + the mithral component. You can get a far better bonus for half the price, so why would you want one of those?

Mithral Chain Shirt + Dastanas + Mithral Chahar-aina would get you to +7 AC entirely via mundane means, without penalties. But as other posters said, I wouldn't enchant them past +1. Instead, put on modifiers that do good stuff.

JaronK

[Keneth]

I'd rather fill my belt slot with a belt of battle, too. With how easy optimizing AC is, I'd rather put my belt slot to better use, except in very niche situations. Belt of battle is nice but its usefulness is often exaggerated. I play mostly Pathfinder these days where hero points can be spent to give you an extra action and while sometimes it may be a life saver, it happens just as often that it doesn't make any difference at all.


Because armor is useful for a lot more than AC. There are all kinds of useful armor enhancements that are extremely valuable; Soulfire, Freedom, the various Fortifications, Mind Armor, and Greater Blurring, to name a few of the top picks. Hell, I can't remember the last time I had a character wearing armor with an enhancement bonus higher than +1 (excepting clerics with Chained Magic Vestment, of course). Some armor enhancements are nice, most of them can be replicated in other ways (we're talking about tier1 classes after all), some of them may be added to bracers (unless your DM is a ponce, like me), I'll take universal armor bonus instead, thanks.

[Morph Bark]

And yet, chain shirt is a +9 bonus to AC at best which would cost you 25k + the mithral component. You can get a far better bonus for half the price, so why would you want one of those?

Why not? Sure, there's cheaper ways, but those stack with armor in most cases. Why not just do it all? At sufficiently high level, you got enough WBL anyway.


Why not have them both (Cha and Wis to AC)? Monk's Belt + 1 level of Battledancer= 3 ability scores to AC (Dex, Wis, & Cha).

Don't forget Fist of the Forest for Con to AC.

[prufock]

Risen Martyr prestige class (BoED) gives Cha to AC as a deflection bonus.
Arcane Duelist prestige class (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)) gives cha to AC as an unnamed bonus.

[KillianHawkeye]

With periapts of wisdom and spells like owl's insight, your wisdom can skyrocket very high, very fast, which means that for a meager 13,000gp you get the equivalent of a very decent heavy armor with bonus perks and none of the penalties.

You know that periapt of wisdom doesn't stack with the owl's wisdom spell, right? They're both enhancement bonuses.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Owl's Insight gives an insight bonus so it actually stacks with the periat and IIRC the bonus is equal to 1/2 CL or something like that.

[Snowbluff]

Why not? Sure, there's cheaper ways, but those stack with armor in most cases. Why not just do it all? At sufficiently high level, you got enough WBL anyway.



Don't forget Fist of the Forest for Con to AC.

I am doing it all. Does anyone read my posts on my owns threads?

[KillianHawkeye]

Owl's Insight gives an insight bonus so it actually stacks with the periat and IIRC the bonus is equal to 1/2 CL or something like that.

Is that a different spell? Source?

Sorry, I thought he meant owl's wisdom and just typed the wrong word!

[Geigan]

Is that a different spell? Source?

Sorry, I thought he meant owl's wisdom and just typed the wrong word!

Spell Compendium pg 152

[Gullintanni]

Risen Martyr prestige class (BoED) gives Cha to AC as a deflection bonus.
Arcane Duelist prestige class (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)) gives cha to AC as an unnamed bonus.

Risen Martyr is a trap. It has a clause that says you can't stop taking levels of Risen Martyr once you've started taking the PrC. In other words, you'd better be prepared to waste the next 10 levels of your progression. And the capstone is you die. Avoid this. Like the plague.


Eh, there are a lot of other good belts is the other problem, like belts of battle.

There's no reason you can't have both. Using MiC's item enhancing rules, you can have a Monk's Belt of Battle pretty easily.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Ur doing it wrong. Monk's belt gives you this:

Huh. And so, if you have the Kung Fu Genius feat-- which has no prerequisites-- and a Monk Belt, you can add Int instead. The rules for creating a magic item that grants a feat appear to have vanished...


I wish for feats that add Strength and Intelligence to AC so I don't have to dip out...

Imagine a Character with decent ability scores (all positive bonus) with every ability score to AC.

You're better off picking one or two scores and finding ways to make them apply to everything-- like a Keen Intellect/Kung Fu Genius/Daring Outlaw/Shadow Blade build, or a Serenity Paladin/Zen Archer/Soulbow.

[Morph Bark]

Risen Martyr is a trap. It has a clause that says you can't stop taking levels of Risen Martyr once you've started taking the PrC. In other words, you'd better be prepared to waste the next 10 levels of your progression. And the capstone is you die. Avoid this. Like the plague.

You also cannot take it if you haven't risen from the dead without having a spell cast to raise/resurrect you, so entering it alone requires DM permission.

[Dazed&Confused]

Don't forget you can also have a shield/buckler if you don't use the Monk's Belt. So, mithral chain shirt and shield and a +2 enhancement on both, there you go with 0 penalties and +10 on AC for 75% of a Monk's Belt price.

It's different for druids though. IMO it's much better for them to use the belt with a wilding clasp instead of paying 16k+ on any armor.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Risen Martyr is a trap. It has a clause that says you can't stop taking levels of Risen Martyr once you've started taking the PrC. In other words, you'd better be prepared to waste the next 10 levels of your progression. And the capstone is you die. Avoid this. Like the plague.



There's no reason you can't have both. Using MiC's item enhancing rules, you can have a Monk's Belt of Battle pretty easily.

The problem with the MiC enhancing rules is that it only applies to certain bonus such as Deflection, ability scores and the like. To have a Monk's Belt of Battle you would need to use the rules in the DMG to combine then which was add the prices and multiply by 1.5 IIRC

[Chronos]

While we're at it with things you can combine with a Monk's Belt, they also stack with Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell.

[KillianHawkeye]

The problem with the MiC enhancing rules is that it only applies to certain bonus such as Deflection, ability scores and the like. To have a Monk's Belt of Battle you would need to use the rules in the DMG to combine then which was add the prices and multiply by 1.5 IIRC

The rule is actually to multiply the cost of the additional magical property by 1.5.