Has this ever happened in any Batman story?

[Dr.Epic]

Has the Joker ever gotten his hands on the Nerconomicon? For some reason, this just seems like a good Batman story: he's already insane and I see no reason why he wouldn't want to release the Elder Gods and transform our world into one of nightmares. Maybe it wouldn't work great as just a Batman story. You might have to get one of the magic-based superheroes in on this too, but I think it'd still be interesting.

Just wondering.

[The Glyphstone]

Does the Necronomicon, or anything else of the Cthulhu mythos, even exist in the DCVerse? It has its own galaxy/universe-eating monsters, like Galactus and the Anti-Monitor anyways.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, the Joker's gotten his hands on god-like power a few times. I don't think it's been the necronomicon specifically, but he's most certainly wangled his way into power via deals with the devil and the like.

[Soras Teva Gee]

While I sure I could dig up a reference to the Necronomicon existing (because people seem to think it y'know wasn't invented by Lovecraft) in the DCU I'm not aware of any story actually dealing with it so.... No.

Joker to my knowledge has only gained magical powers in Emperor Joker storyline, which I personally despise but a lot of people seem to think was a great idea. Joker gets Batmite/Mxy powers, what you'd predict ensues, he can't kill Bats which Supes uses to eventually worm his way out of the mess. Everything goes back to normal, story over.

In general magic does not crossover that much with the broader DCU. The rule seems to be you have heroes with magic that deal with magic, and keep everything in house as it were. This is spillover from Vertigo being exiled from the DCU I believe, and I understand is changed a fair bit recently but yeah. They simply don't run stories about otherwise vanilla characters picking up magic for a story with any kind of regularity.

[DiscipleofBob]

There are some Brave and the Bold episodes where similar things happen when Batman teams up with various magic-based characters or goes up against villains like Equinox.

[Soras Teva Gee]

There are some Brave and the Bold episodes where similar things happen when Batman teams up with various magic-based characters or goes up against villains like Equinox.

The cartoons do it with greater frequency then the comics. BTAS had Etrigan at least more then once, STAS had Doctor Fate in a few as well. Justice League had well... a lot actually.

The comics though don't, then again people don't realize how few stories are told in comics these days. With something like six to twelve issue as the normal range for a story arc and at only one issue a month, doesn't add up to that many. The animation still gets to tell one story an episode and as such can (and even has to be) more creative.

[H Birchgrove]

Cthulhu is Aquaman's b****. :tongue:

[Venom3053000]

so true

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l276/thedukeofdank/aquaman-cthulhu.jpg

[Tirian]

Part of the semi-canon in post-Crisis is that Gotham City is the way it is because a bunch of Freemasons summoned a demon in ye olde Gotham Village and left it trapped there for the past two hundred fifty years to fester all of the insanity and despair that Batman has to fight. To that end, my favorite Batman arc EVAR is 1990's "Dark Knight, Dark City" (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/04/13/comics-you-should-own-flashback-batman-452-454/), where the Riddler goes on an uncharacteristic spree of mayhem and near-violence and Batman has to make sense of it all. I highly recommend tracking down those issues, because AFAIK it has never been bound in a trade paperback.

[H Birchgrove]

Part of the semi-canon in post-Crisis is that Gotham City is the way it is because a bunch of Freemasons summoned a demon in ye olde Gotham Village and left it trapped there for the past two hundred fifty years to fester all of the insanity and despair that Batman has to fight. To that end, my favorite Batman arc EVAR is 1990's "Dark Knight, Dark City" (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/04/13/comics-you-should-own-flashback-batman-452-454/), where the Riddler goes on an uncharacteristic spree of mayhem and near-violence and Batman has to make sense of it all. I highly recommend tracking down those issues, because AFAIK it has never been bound in a trade paperback.

It was in the Swedish Batman comic book, and yes, it is a riveting read. Written by Peter Milligan (who also wrote the re-vamped Shade the Changing Man).

[KillianHawkeye]

Does the Necronomicon, or anything else of the Cthulhu mythos, even exist in the DCVerse? It has its own galaxy/universe-eating monsters, like Galactus and the Anti-Monitor anyways.

I thought Galactus/Silver Surfer/Fantastic Four was a Marvel property. :smallconfused:

Anyway, he just eats planets, not galaxies/universes.

[Tirian]

Might be thinking of the Sun-Eater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-Eater).

Speaking specifically of the Joker, he was a part of Neron's inner circle in Underworld Unleashed (selling his soul for a box of Cuban cigars, but unsurprisingly he didn't play well with DC's lawful evil). Closer to Lovecraftian analogy, Joker has also taken on Eclipso's power when he was trying to overwhelm the world.

[The Glyphstone]

I thought Galactus/Silver Surfer/Fantastic Four was a Marvel property. :smallconfused:

Anyway, he just eats planets, not galaxies/universes.

I can't keep them straight at the best of times...

[Starwulf]

Well, the Joker's gotten his hands on god-like power a few times. I don't think it's been the necronomicon specifically, but he's most certainly wangled his way into power via deals with the devil and the like.

Why is it I have the distinct feeling that the devil likely got the short end of the stick in any deals made with the Joker.

[Ravens_cry]

Why is it I have the distinct feeling that the devil likely got the short end of the stick in any deals made with the Joker.
I believe the "devil", at least once, in question was Mr. Mxyzptlk.
I believe he did indeed get the raw end of the deal.

[Kindablue]

I thought Galactus/Silver Surfer/Fantastic Four was a Marvel property. :smallconfused:

Anyway, he just eats planets, not galaxies/universes.

Just. He just eats planets.

[Traab]

Just. He just eats planets.

Well yeah, its not THAT big a deal. Just send superman out to tow a new planet into place and have the same crews that rebuild metropolis after every battle get to work fixing things and replacing the cities. 6 months tops to recover from the earth being eaten.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just. He just eats planets.

That's what I said. :smallwink:

Planets aren't that big a deal compared to a galaxy or the entire universe.

[KingofMadCows]

That will never happen since it will require the Joker to worship someone.

[Madmal]

Does the Necronomicon, or anything else of the Cthulhu mythos, even exist in the DCVerse? It has its own galaxy/universe-eating monsters, like Galactus and the Anti-Monitor anyways.

Not quite in the DCUniverse, but it appears to be a possibility in "Elseworlds", whatever that may actually be:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/___MefJKal84/SUNGQK1uK0I/AAAAAAAAADQ/b5veAA1j6sE/s320/Doom+1.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/___MefJKal84/SUXqQDuhvlI/AAAAAAAAADg/nc8cek8odvs/s320/Doom+3.jpg

[Eldan]

Elseworlds are basically DC's version of "What if" stories. What if Batman lived in the Mythos-verse, seems to be the case here.

[Brother Oni]

Elseworlds are basically DC's version of "What if" stories. What if Batman lived in the Mythos-verse, seems to be the case here.

I see Mike Mignola's name on those titles, so possibly more Batman in the Hellboy universe (which is pretty much the Mythos universe with the exception of Big Red running around).

[kpenguin]

I believe the "devil", at least once, in question was Mr. Mxyzptlk.
I believe he did indeed get the raw end of the deal.

On another incident, the Joker sold his soul to the devil for a pack of cigars.

And he still came up on top of that deal.

[Axolotl]

On another incident, the Joker sold his soul to the devil for a pack of cigars.

And he still came up on top of that deal.Out of curiosity which devil? DC has quite a few from what I remember.

[Tirian]

Out of curiosity which devil? DC has quite a few from what I remember.

Neron, in Underworld Unleashed.

[Smokin Red]

It is pretty logical, that he comes up on top. His soul (if he ever had one) must already be damned to hell all the way, every little thing he can get extra for it means he is on top. :smallcool:

[The Reverend]

Cthuhlu is aquamans bitch......

That explains why the JL keeps him around....he controls Cthuhlu!!!!!!!

PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH AQUAMAN
R'LYEH WAGH'NAGL FHTAGN

[Tyndmyr]

Why is it I have the distinct feeling that the devil likely got the short end of the stick in any deals made with the Joker.

I can't honestly think of an exception to this.

In the long run, the Joker almost invariably seems to come out on top with his dealings with other evil sorts.

[Elrik]

Unfortunately, I don’t think this has happened…yet. Considering how many weird things the joker gets pulled into it wouldn’t surprise me if he does something like this in the future.

I will note that I think the closest thing the joker has done that constitutes transforming the world into a nightmare was…I think, when he tricked Superman villain ‘Mr. Mxyzptlk’ into giving him 99% of his power. At that point the Joker could warp reality and turned the earth into his own personal playground (with Lex Luthor as his court jester). At one point the Joker even effortlessly beat some of the most powerful entities in the DC universe, along with Darkseid, by turning them into invalids, or something.

Supreman was the only person who wasn't affected along with the Spectre, to my knowledge, so he obviously put a stop to it and everything went back to normal.

[GeekGirl]

I think (At work so i don't have the comic here) in Trinity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_(comic_book)), the joker was bestowed god like powers. I will double check when I get home, but I do remember him shaping the world in his image and it was pretty terrifying.

[Devonix]

Cthuhlu is aquamans bitch......

That explains why the JL keeps him around....he controls Cthuhlu!!!!!!!

PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH AQUAMAN
R'LYEH WAGH'NAGL FHTAGN

Umm they keep him around because he formed the team, and helps bankroll it. Originally he was the only source of funding if I recall.

That and him being an utter badass and powerhouse fighter.

[Senator Cybus]

The Joker has also:

Wielded the power of the Spectre

Taken possession of ultimate reality-altering artifact the Worlogog

Been given the power to make real anything he could imagine by the Shaper of Worlds

Once wore the Mask (as in the big, green Jim Carrey, cartoon super-powers Mask)

And would have been a dead cert for a Sinestro Corps power ring if the Scarecrow had been out of town that day.


By this point, it's probably quicker to list the stories where he doesn't have god-like powers. :smallsmile:

[paddyfool]

Umm they keep him around because he formed the team, and helps bankroll it. Originally he was the only source of funding if I recall.

That and him being an utter badass and powerhouse fighter.

Also a telepath (prior to the 2011 reboot, anyway). Albeit a weaker one than the Martian Manhunter.

[Devonix]

Also a telepath (prior to the 2011 reboot, anyway). Albeit a weaker one than the Martian Manhunter.

*claps* almost no one ever remembers he's a telepath and while not up to the Martian Manhunter's level he's still powerful enough to fry a person's brain, screw with memories or communicate telepathically with an entire civilization when he pushes himself.

[Traab]

*claps* almost no one ever remembers he's a telepath and while not up to the Martian Manhunter's level he's still powerful enough to fry a person's brain, screw with memories or communicate telepathically with an entire civilization when he pushes himself.

I thought he was a fishypath.

[Devonix]

I thought he was a fishypath.

Nope not true his powers never worked that way in the comics, only in toons.

In the comics his telepathy works on anything with a brain. His telepathy just works more powerfully on things that have aquatic ancestors aka Mammals

[H Birchgrove]

Nope not true his powers never worked that way in the comics, only in toons.

In the comics his telepathy works on anything with a brain. His telepathy just works more powerfully on things that have aquatic ancestors aka Mammals

All life on land has aquatic ancestors. :smallconfused:

[paddyfool]

All life on land has aquatic ancestors. :smallconfused:

My rough understanding of it is that:

Aquaman's telepathic effectiveness with aquatic life from Earth > effectiveness with non-aquatic life from Earth > effectiveness with alien aquatic life > effectiveness with non-aquatic alien life.

Which makes about as much sense as comic book powers generally do, I suppose.

[Devonix]

My rough understanding of it is that:

Aquaman's telepathic effectiveness with aquatic life from Earth > effectiveness with non-aquatic life from Earth > effectiveness with alien aquatic life > effectiveness with non-aquatic alien life.

Which makes about as much sense as comic book powers generally do, I suppose.

Pretty much this. Remember not everything that they come into contact with is from Earth and as such they don't all evolve the same way

[Tiki Snakes]

Ah, Aquaman. The acceptable face of power-creep. He's just not Namor.

I always wonder, actually, about the assertian by word of god and the powers that be, that the Joker is any kind of normal human being. I mean, in so many ways he's obviously not normal, but the character makes so much more sense to me if he's not actually, (whether anyone is aware of it or not), more than a simple baseline human being.

Of course, I also like to imagine a hybrid DC/Marvel Universe with Batman secretly having some degree of undiagnosed mutant DNA. (Not to be confused with the frankly mad hybrid universe they actually got together and published).

[Traab]

Ah, Aquaman. The acceptable face of power-creep. He's just not Namor.

I always wonder, actually, about the assertian by word of god and the powers that be, that the Joker is any kind of normal human being. I mean, in so many ways he's obviously not normal, but the character makes so much more sense to me if he's not actually, (whether anyone is aware of it or not), more than a simple baseline human being.

Of course, I also like to imagine a hybrid DC/Marvel Universe with Batman secretly having some degree of undiagnosed mutant DNA. (Not to be confused with the frankly mad hybrid universe they actually got together and published).

True, doesnt the joker actually manage to put up a halfway decent fight in close range with batman most of the time? I mean, I go off cartoons, so the comics are likely different, but generally the joker actually does fairly well for himself. And considering batman is generally considered one of the top experts of hand to hand combat amongst nonmeta humans, the joker NOT getting obliterated in seconds is impressive.

[Tirian]

I think we are to believe that the Joker is the human pinnacle of chaos in the same manner that Batman has maxed out on discipline. He's garbage in the mechanics of a fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AsCsGNClUw), but he always plays a shell game with his hidden weapon or getaway gadget and Batman is habitually unable to predict it.

[Devonix]

Actually part of the point of the DCU is that there is no such thing as a " Normal " human being in that universe. Earth in the DCU is essentually the staging area for the birth of the 5th world as set up by Jack Kirby decades ago.

All Humans have locked within them the potential for beyond normal things. Its what led to a big invasion of earth back in the early 80s when the other races noticed the disproportinate amount of supers arising from a seeming normal race.

Studies were done by them and they found that roughly 1 out of every 10 humans when given the right psycological stimulus of physical stress will display superhuman or just radically exceptional abilities.

The actual number is far higher and eventually the entire planet is supposed to ascend to become the new gods of the DCU. Thats been a part of the DC Backstory since the 60s though now with the reboot I don't know if its still there.

[Devonix]

Also Aquman's abilities that we mentioned aren't power creep. Its listing him as he was originaly. Having his abilities just affecting fish was them Nerfing his powers for the cartoons.

[Dienekes]

True, doesnt the joker actually manage to put up a halfway decent fight in close range with batman most of the time? I mean, I go off cartoons, so the comics are likely different, but generally the joker actually does fairly well for himself. And considering batman is generally considered one of the top experts of hand to hand combat amongst nonmeta humans, the joker NOT getting obliterated in seconds is impressive.

It really depends on the writer. In his first appearance for example Batman even says the Joker is finally a worthy physical challenge for him. In others he gets one-hit KO'd. Even now his abilities fluctuate from barely putting up a fight to having the upper hand against the Bat from time to time.

In the "Dienekes Personal Canon" I picture the Joker as not a great fighter, but just crazy and throws everything he has in a fight. Sometimes this means he gets a weird swing in that no one was expecting, and since he's fought against the best so many times he's picked up on how Batman fights.

[Devonix]

It really depends on the writer. In his first appearance for example Batman even says the Joker is finally a worthy physical challenge for him. In others he gets one-hit KO'd. Even now his abilities fluctuate from barely putting up a fight to having the upper hand against the Bat from time to time.

In the "Dienekes Personal Canon" I picture the Joker as not a great fighter, but just crazy and throws everything he has in a fight. Sometimes this means he gets a weird swing in that no one was expecting, and since he's fought against the best so many times he's picked up on how Batman fights.

The joker's fluctuating abilities are actually part of the canon of his character. When he reinvents himself, changes what his origin stories are ect he actually changed everything about him. All of his pasts are both true and false at the same time. Its all connected with him knowing he's a comic book character.

In essence The Joker has the power to retcon himself.

[Traab]

The joker's fluctuating abilities are actually part of the canon of his character. When he reinvents himself, changes what his origin stories are ect he actually changed everything about him. All of his pasts are both true and false at the same time. Its all connected with him knowing he's a comic book character.

In essence The Joker has the power to retcon himself.

Wait, so hes deadpool now? lol Does he also violate the 4th wall with creepy regularity?

[Devonix]

Wait, so hes deadpool now? lol Does he also violate the 4th wall with creepy regularity?

Joker was violating the 4th wall years before Deadpool started. Hell he was doing it before She Hulk was doing it.

He just doesn't do it as often.

[Dienekes]

The joker's fluctuating abilities are actually part of the canon of his character. When he reinvents himself, changes what his origin stories are ect he actually changed everything about him. All of his pasts are both true and false at the same time. Its all connected with him knowing he's a comic book character.

In essence The Joker has the power to retcon himself.


Wait, so hes deadpool now? lol Does he also violate the 4th wall with creepy regularity?

No, not with any frequency. There are a few times he's broken the 4th Wall, often it's just little gags like whistling his own theme music in BTAS. There are a handful of times he's broken it in the comic, but mostly no he's played straight as a comicbook character which is part of why I never liked this explanation, part of why I developed the "Dienekes Personal Canon" really.

[Traab]

No, not with any frequency. There are a few times he's broken the 4th Wall, often it's just little gags like whistling his own theme music in BTAS. There are a handful of times he's broken it in the comic, but mostly no he's played straight as a comicbook character which is part of why I never liked this explanation, part of why I developed the "Dienekes Personal Canon" really.

So all that remains is harley reassuring "Mister J" that he is as handsome as heath ledger? :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

Has the Joker ever gotten his hands on the Nerconomicon? For some reason, this just seems like a good Batman story: he's already insane and I see no reason why he wouldn't want to release the Elder Gods and transform our world into one of nightmares. Maybe it wouldn't work great as just a Batman story. You might have to get one of the magic-based superheroes in on this too, but I think it'd still be interesting.

Just wondering.

Not that I know of, but the joker got the MASK once. And Mxyspitliks powers another. it wasn't pretty.

[Zen Monkey]

Personally, I like the idea that the Joker knows he's in a comic. It's what really drove him mad, why he acts like nothing matters, and why he just does things to amuse himself (then quickly tires of them). He's essentially an odd Matrix character, knowing that everything around him isn't real but that there's also no way out.