Goliath Hulking Hurler

[StabbyStab]

I've just recently started a new game with a few friends, and need some advice on building a Barbarian/Hulking Hurler. Right now, he's level 3. I took mountain rage at level one, and for feats I took power attack and point blank shot. I plan to take weapon focus for something thrown at level 6. What I need to know:

What magic items work well on hulking hurlers?

What other feats should I take?

Should I stay in barbarian or move to another PrC after hurler is finished? If so, which one?

[Geigan]

Hulking hurler is a broken PrC unfortunately because of weight rules for improvised weapons, weight carrying rates for strength, and the Really Throw Anything class feature. You can easily get way more damage than most DMs can handle easily without building encounters to screw with you specifically. If you're set on the class I would recommend staying away from the Really Throw Anything special ability or asking your DM to revise the rules for heavy-weight improvised weapons, to avoid screwing over your DM's encounter balance dramatically. Unless you've consulted with him and he's sure he can handle it of course, but IMO those rules were not written with anyone actually doing the math to realize what they amounted to and should be avoided or revised entirely.

As for other classes that synergize with Hulking hurlers, without going down the ridiculous damage route (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build?pg=1), I'd say bloodstorm blade from Tome of Battle if you have access to it as it's one of the best throwing weapon classes around. Master Thrower would be hilarious if you managed to qualify for it, if only for the image of someone trying to hide boulders up their sleeves and throwing them out like he's being sneaky with them.

edit: I apologize my memory is terrible. The broken part of the class is actually the overburdened heave ability under the Two-Handed Hurl Tricks. Just ignore that one and the numbers look a lot less ridiculous, though still quite powerful. Consult your DM about the class either way, just to be safe.

[CommodoreCrunch]

Brutal Throw and Power Throw. The former uses your Str mod for thrown weapons instead of your Dex mod, and the later is Power Attack for thrown weapons. Both are from Complete Adventurer. Far shot is nice for extended the range of throw anything.

I notice you've picked up Power Attack. Do you plan to take Ranged Power Attack at Hulking Hurler 2/3?

One thing that would be fun to stack with hulking hurler is Bloodstorm Blade. A 1-level dip into Warblade (or Martial Study+Martial Stance) would qualify you.

[StabbyStab]

I grabbed power attack to qualify for Hurler and get me through the first few levels where I won't be flinging as much stuff, instead hitting it with a large greataxe.
Ideally, I'm looking to throw pretty much everything, especially allies and enemies.
There's something awesome about killing a kobold with another kobold.
Does flinging living (or nonliving) creatures fall under really throw anything? Is there something else I should be picking up?

[Geigan]

I grabbed power attack to qualify for Hurler and get me through the first few levels where I won't be flinging as much stuff, instead hitting it with a large greataxe.
Ideally, I'm looking to throw pretty much everything, especially allies and enemies.
There's something awesome about killing a kobold with another kobold.
Does flinging living (or nonliving) creatures fall under really throw anything? Is there something else I should be picking up?

There are actually a set of feats for just that idea in Races of Stone. Fling Ally and Fling Enemy they are called and are under the feats section with rock hurling as a prereq. Name yourself Red Bull and give other people wings.

[StabbyStab]

There are actually a set of feats for just that idea in Races of Stone. Fling Ally and Fling Enemy they are called and are under the feats section with rock hurling as a prereq. Name yourself Red Bull and give other people wings.
Where am I going to pick up rock hurling? I don't see it under goliath, but I might just be missing it somehow.

[Geigan]

Where am I going to pick up rock hurling? I don't see it under goliath, but I might just be missing it somehow.

It's also in the feats section of the book. Page 143

[StabbyStab]

Is it worth going back into barbarian at any point here?
Also, I'm new to barbarians in general. What magic items should I be picking up?

[Geigan]

Is it worth going back into barbarian at any point here?
Also, I'm new to barbarians in general. What magic items should I be picking up?

Link to a barbarian guide
Being Bane: A guide to cracking small men (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8753.0)

Admittedly not all of this advice applies to a hulking hurler build but if you scroll down you can find some good magic item advice, and I'm sure there are more ideas hanging around in there.

[CommodoreCrunch]

There are actually a set of feats for just that idea in Races of Stone. Fling Ally and Fling Enemy they are called and are under the feats section with rock hurling as a prereq. Name yourself Red Bull and give other people wings. Hell, by pure RAW, if you have Really Throw Anything you don't need those feats.
Does it exist?
Yes.
Can you pick it up as a light load?
Well that Kobold weighs about 40 pounds, so yes.
Alright, go ahead and chuck it.

Clearly you'd need to make some grapples to chuck an enemy, but a willing ally? Easy.

I built an entire encounter off the concept of Hulking Hurlers chucking halflings around a battlefield.

[deuxhero]

Hulking hurler is a broken PrC unfortunately because of weight rules for improvised weapons, weight carrying rates for strength, and the Really Throw Anything class feature. You can easily get way more damage than most DMs can handle easily without building encounters to screw with you specifically.

Easy is putting it lightly, if you qualify you are destroying everything.

[Geigan]

Hell, by pure RAW, if you have Really Throw Anything you don't need those feats.
Does it exist?
Yes.
Can you pick it up as a light load?
Well that Kobold weighs about 40 pounds, so yes.
Alright, go ahead and chuck it.

Clearly you'd need to make some grapples to chuck an enemy, but a willing ally? Easy.

I built an entire encounter off the concept of Hulking Hurlers chucking halflings around a battlefield.

Not prohibited by RAW no, but not explicitly laid out either. Trying to do those sorts of things can end up being really annoying for the DM because he has to decide how to rule it. He has to decide how the thing works, what kind of action it is, what happens to the creature thrown, etc. No problem for you because I imagine you were the DM for that case, but some DMs don't want to bother with it. The feat provides a neatly laid out version of what happens without making work for the DM beyond looking it up.

Personally I would not make a player take the feats if he thought they were too much of a hassle and just wanted something clever to do with his huge strength score. I'd most likely houserule something on the spot if it came up, but of course some DMs are going to turn up their noses at anything that isn't explicit so at least it's provided for even though it's provided by a meh group of feats.

Of course the the OP could ask his DM how he thinks throwing allies and enemies around should work, because he might have an idea or two.:smallwink:

[twas_Brillig]

Not prohibited by RAW no, but not explicitly laid out either. Trying to do those sorts of things can end up being really annoying for the DM because he has to decide how to rule it. He has to decide how the thing works, what kind of action it is, what happens to the creature thrown, etc. No problem for you because I imagine you were the DM for that case, but some DMs don't want to bother with it. The feat provides a neatly laid out version of what happens without making work for the DM beyond looking it up.

Personally I would not make a player take the feats if he thought they were too much of a hassle and just wanted something clever to do with his huge strength score. I'd most likely houserule something on the spot if it came up, but of course some DMs are going to turn up their noses at anything that isn't explicit so at least it's provided for even though it's provided by a meh group of feats.

Of course the the OP could ask his DM how he thinks throwing allies and enemies around should work, because he might have an idea or two.:smallwink:

This is yet another thing to bring up with the DM early on, just so they don't have to slow down the game or hurt feelings later. Depending on their stance on melee's ability to have nice things and the brokenness of Hulking Hurler, I'd think it would be pretty reasonable to use the mechanics of the feats as a guide while gently folding them into Really Throw Anything.

After all, if they're letting you play the class for its funsies, it's like you said: what's more fun than tossing the dwarf?

[deuxhero]

Tossing two of them?

[twas_Brillig]

Tossing two of them?

Wrong! Using Bloodstorm Blade to toss the dwarf at everyone within range.

[SaintRidley]

Have a monk in the party? You should see about taking weapon focus (monk) and throwing the monk. When he hits, he can get flurry in and feel useful.

Also, see if you can't get your DM to be awesome and let you get the monk enchanted. +1 Returning Monk? Good deal.

[prufock]

Does Mountain Rage actually allow you to qualify for Hulking Hurler? I guess if your DM is okay with it it doesn't matter, just wondering about RAW. I didn't think temporary features let you do that, otherwise you could qualify with Wild Shape, Enlarge Person, Expansion, or Polymorph.

[StabbyStab]

Have a monk in the party? You should see about taking weapon focus (monk) and throwing the monk. When he hits, he can get flurry in and feel useful.

Also, see if you can't get your DM to be awesome and let you get the monk enchanted. +1 Returning Monk? Good deal.

I lol'd

So, do you guys think barbarian or bloodstorm blade is the way to go after I finish hurler?
If I do go bloodstorm, how do I qualify for it?

[StabbyStab]

Does Mountain Rage actually allow you to qualify for Hulking Hurler? I guess if your DM is okay with it it doesn't matter, just wondering about RAW. I didn't think temporary features let you do that, otherwise you could qualify with Wild Shape, Enlarge Person, Expansion, or Polymorph.

There's the debate about whether powerful build lets you qualify. My DM is cool with it as long as I have mountain rage as well. If you want to try it, make sure you check with your DM first.
If you really want to do it with another race, you can always get a permanent enlarge person cast on you.

[CommodoreCrunch]

I lol'd

So, do you guys think barbarian or bloodstorm blade is the way to go after I finish hurler?
If I do go bloodstorm, how do I qualify for it? You need Balance 8 ranks, PBS and one Iron Heart maneuver and stance. One level of Warblade will qualify you, or taking Martial Study and Martial Stance. My advice? After HH, take Warblade until your initiator level is high enough to pick up Iron Heart Surge. Cheese aside, its extremely useful to have. Also pick up Mountain Hammer from the Stone Dragon discipline.

[Chronos]

Dipping one level into an initiator class is almost always superior to taking Martial Study and/or Stance. Consider: A single feat spent on Martial Study is two whole levels worth of class features for a fighter (yes, I know that barbarians are more powerful than fighters, but it still allows a basis for comparison). A single level of Warblade, meanwhile, gives you six maneuvers, a recovery mechanism for them, a stance, a bigger hit die and more skills, and assorted other benefits.

[StabbyStab]

I'm looking into dipping one level into fighter to get brutal throw as a bonus feat much earlier, so that I can actually throw stuff. Is this a good idea?