Making a reasonable blaster

[Master Thrower]

Hello playground! After playing a druid, who accidently out-shined the rest of the party (heal bot cleric, Classic THF Barbarian/Fighter, and a spell thief) I have been asked by my DM to take the arcane role, and not go over board with it.

So I thought why not make a sorcerer who's main focus is blasting, with a side of classic Save-or-Suck spells in case the situation gets too bad. Because blasting is sub-par, I would like to find ways to up my CL to deal a reasonable amount of damage for my spells.

The ways I have found obtainable by level 9 (our level) - Draconic Power +1 CL for spells of certain energy descriptors, which fits in perfectly with the other one I have found the elemental savant (only for four levels to avoid CL loss)

My thought was to use orb of fire, and change it to either electric, acid, or frost. And ideas here?

Anyways to cap it off any ideas on feats, race, spells, PrC, and the biggest increase my CL for more damage.

Current Ideas-
Sorcerer 5, Elemental savant 4
Draconic heritage, Draconic Power, Energy Sub, Sudden Extend

[Geigan]

Mailman build (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

Even if you don't follow it exactly read it, because it has some good bits on spell selection for direct damage types.

And of course the standard sorcerer guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0). Where standard means Stupendous.

[dextercorvia]

Some of my favorite CL boosters:

Bloodline of Fire feat(Faerun regional feat) +2 CL for fire spells.
Reserves of Strength feat (DLCS) It's not the best for blasters, but when it counts it is crazy overpowered.
Spellgifted trait (UA, OGL) +1 CL to one school, -1 CL to others -- offset by being a Krau Illumian, or Practiced Spellcaster feat.
Wild Mage (CA) -3CL, then +1d6 when you cast a spell. Offset the -3CL with Practiced Spellcaster (and take spellgifted to use up the last +1)
Reserve Feats give an easy +1CL for elemental spells
Spell Thematics (one of the faerun books) +1 CL to one spell per level
Take Arcane Preparation and then Ultimate Magus -- you won't benefit from most of the class features, but it will get you +4 CL over 10 levels.

[Master Thrower]

Some of my favorite CL boosters:

Bloodline of Fire feat(Faerun regional feat) +2 CL for fire spells.
Reserves of Strength feat (DLCS) It's not the best for blasters, but when it counts it is crazy overpowered.
Spellgifted trait (UA, OGL) +1 CL to one school, -1 CL to others -- offset by being a Krau Illumian, or Practiced Spellcaster feat.
Wild Mage (CA) -3CL, then +1d6 when you cast a spell. Offset the -3CL with Practiced Spellcaster (and take spellgifted to use up the last +1)
Reserve Feats give an easy +1CL for elemental spells
Spell Thematics (one of the faerun books) +1 CL to one spell per level
Take Arcane Preparation and then Ultimate Magus -- you won't benefit from most of the class features, but it will get you +4 CL over 10 levels.

Hmm so using Wild Mage in conjunction with Draconic Heritage, and Elemental savant by tenth level I could get my CL to be between, 10 (what more caster have) and 15. (I mention wild mage as most of those are in sources not directly allowed so most I would have to run by my DM) but these are great!

[dextercorvia]

What are your sources? Reserve feats are found in CChampion and CMage.

I would personally skip Elemental Savant. The autoconversion thing is a drag if you happen to face something that is weak to a different energy type.

[Master Thrower]

What are your sources? Reserve feats are found in CChampion and CMage.

I would personally skip Elemental Savant. The autoconversion thing is a drag if you happen to face something that is weak to a different energy type.

Sources- PHB,DMG,MM,CadV,CD,CA,CW,Dracomicon, Planar Handbook and LM. But I can run by other sources it just needs DM approval

Also yeah savant doesnt even increase CL, it increases DC's so thats out.

[Geigan]

Among other things that are wonderful for sorcerers in Complete Mage(if you can get your DM to allow it), is the rapid metamagic feat which you qualify to take this level if you've been maxing your spellcraft appropriately. You know that annoying clause that spontaneous casters have about having to apply metamagic as a full round action for their spells? This feat gets rid of it. You want it if you're playing a sorcerer, doubly so if you're going heavy on the metamagic to deal damage. Also Arcane fusion line, a wonderful set of sorcerer only spells is in that book, which allows some wonderfully efficient action economy for you. Run Complete Mage by your DM if you haven't already, though all these neat things might be a point against it if you're trying to limit your power...

[docnessuno]

The problem with sorcerers is that before level 12 you are not very effective with metamagic, and metamagic is THE key for blasting.

Key feats:
Empower spell
Twin spell
Quicken spell
Residual magic
Optional: Maximize spell (less optimal but when you are rolling a truck of d6 helps)
Optional: metamagic reducer feats (great, but tend to lead to single-spell spam builds, so i don't really like them)
Optionals: Energy substitution/admixture and/or born of the three thunders combo


Key point is stacking metamagic reducers. All the metamagic feats are usually 0-gain by their own, but can become sustantially better when discounted

An example is Focused Evoker 5 / Halruaan elder 4 / Incantatrix 10 / Archmage 1. (pick Mastery of Elements as archmage)

This could lead to:
Empower: +1
Twin: +2
Quicken: +2

Example: normal blaster:
Firebrand (Level 5 slot, 15d6 fire damage @ cap)
Quickened fireball (Level 7 slot, 10d6 fire damage @ cap)

Metamagic specialist
Empowered,twinned, sonic fireball (Level 6 slot 15d6+15d6 sonic damage)
Empowered, Quickened sonic fireball (becomes twinned with Residual magic) (Level 6 slot 15d6+15d6 sonic damage)

[ericgrau]

So I thought why not make a sorcerer who's main focus is blasting, with a side of classic Save-or-Suck spells in case the situation gets too bad. Because blasting is sub-par, I would like to find ways to up my CL to deal a reasonable amount of damage for my spells.
Blasting isn't as good as battlefield control, but at least it's not as bad as save-or-suck. Unless you mean multi-target area suckitude, which are on a fuzzy line between battlefield control and save-or-suck.

Try a wizard for quicken and higher level spells. Get fireball and some form of shaping to exclude allies and energy substitution (or differing spells) and go to town. You'll get far, far more damage if you can hit multiple targets instead of one. Also consider chain lightning if you tend to face the right battlefield configuration (i.e., if it tends to hit over 50% more targets than fireball).

The orb spells are a great way to get around high level SR. At level 9 SR is barely starting so they're more of a backup option at the moment.

Spells like evard's tentacles combine well with area blasting to cluster foes nicely before the boom, but I don't know how far you want to go on these type of spells before you tick off your DM.

[Flickerdart]

If you're a blasting Sorcerer, you're using the Wings spells and Greater Arcane Fusion, not sissy fireballs.

[Incanur]

I recommend mark of the enlightened soul or touch of the blackened soul as an easy blaster boost. +50% damage makes a difference. This option goes with Ocular Spell eye beams. The much-maligned evoker can nova like a champ with this combo: 135 damage (or 270 with Split Ray) at level 7.

[darksolitaire]

I consider myself decent when it comes knowing sources, but I have no idea where mark of the enlightened soul or touch of the blackened soul come from. Care to enlighten?

Edit: thanks, I was way off, thinking they were feats :smallbiggrin:

[Incanur]

I consider myself decent when it comes knowing sources, but I have no idea where mark of the enlightened soul or touch of the blackened soul come from. Care to enlighten?

They're 4th-level spells from Dragon Magic that make all 3rd or lower spells deal +50 damage against evil/good creatures.

[Rubik]

They're 4th-level spells from Dragon Magic that make all 3rd or lower spells deal +50 damage against evil/good creatures.This would be awesome with a spell-to-power erudite and magic/psionics transparency (or the magic mantle), since all powers retain their original power levels when augmented.

[Godskook]

What about scrapping the caster and build a Dragonfire Adept? They're arcane, easy to optimize, and won't outshine a party. The class itself is online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2), and most of what you'd need to make it work is either in Dragon Magic, Races of the Dragon or Draconomicon.

[jaybird]

The only spell you will ever need as a Sorcerer is Wings of Flurry. Spellwarp Sniper it if you need precision.

[Dazed&Confused]

Get Leadership and make it an Incantatrix, from PGtF. Buff its Spellcraft so you can get free metamagic every round - twin spell is great, 20d6 at lvl 10 on a fireball is no joke.

[Incanur]

Get Leadership and make it an Incantatrix, from PGtF. Buff its Spellcraft so you can get free metamagic every round - twin spell is great, 20d6 at lvl 10 on a fireball is no joke.

I know I'm a hypocrite because I mentioned Ocular Spell, but Leadership and the incantatrix prestige class have no place in a thread with "reasonable" in the title. :smallredface:

[Medic!]

Any reason not to include Energy Admixture with Energy Substitution? Combined with Bloodline of Fire you could pull off some enemy energy resistance/immunity dependant blasting fairly well

An incantrix sorcerer with some minor fey bloodline is pretty damn sexy, especially if you start throwing in arcane thesis and practical metamagic (and the obligatory rapid metamagic). Grab an Item Familiar and watch your spellcraft checks go through the roof for free metamagic out the wazoo (especially with another caster in the party). I've mentioned it in other threads but it was so fun it's worth mentioning again. Recently got to see a necropoliton sorc/incantrix I built in action with enervation as his arcane thesis, and it was astonishing. *zapzapzap* negative levels everywhere (4 rays per cast, 7 neg lvls per ray with empower, maximize, twin spell, split ray, fell drain).

Could either end an encounter pretty much immediately, or debuff a monster and give himself some hefty hefty bonus temp HP in the same shot by hitting an opponnent with 2 rays and himself with 2 every shot (16th lvl char, so 14 neg lvls without crits was pretty substantial as a debuff, coupled with a free 70 temp hp for 1 hr).

Incredibly unforseen tangent aside, /agree with rapid metamagic and incantrix as a sorc. Very possible to use Arcane Preperation (if you want to burn the extra feat) to qualify for a lvl of ultimate magus at 6th right before you start up incantrix at 7th for an extra CL increase.

[mint]

I would go with a wizard with the focused specialist and master specialist stuff. Ban at least one of conjuration or transmutation. Playing a low op evoker trying to stay away from the staples like glitterdust and tentacles and still being relevant is some of the most fun I've had in d&d.

[hushblade]

If you're not opposed to it, A psion kineticist as a blaster is a bit easier to pull off. Kind of effective out of the box as opposed to requiring anything special.

[nedz]

Why has no one mentioned Warmage. Its fairly low tier so you won't outshine the party and it does blast reasonably well.
A Sorceror will make a better blaster and has more flexibility so YMMV

[dextercorvia]

Why has no one mentioned Warmage. Its fairly low tier so you won't outshine the party and it does blast reasonably well.
A Sorceror will make a better blaster and has more flexibility so YMMV

Warmage is missing out on a lot of the stuff that people depend on casters for -- like flying, teleportation, etc. It can do CLd6 damage for a large part of the day, but that makes it more of an Archer than a caster.

Without quite a bit of optimization, a Warmage will be outshone(outshined?) by most of the party.

[nedz]

... the rest of the party (heal bot cleric, Classic THF Barbarian/Fighter, and a spell thief) ...
Current Ideas-
Sorcerer 5, Elemental savant 4
Draconic heritage, Draconic Power, Energy Sub, Sudden Extend


Warmage is missing out on a lot of the stuff that people depend on casters for -- like flying, teleportation, etc. It can do CLd6 damage for a large part of the day, but that makes it more of an Archer than a caster.

Without quite a bit of optimization, a Warmage will be outshone(outshined?) by most of the party.
I agree, well almost - have you seen the rest of the party :smallsmile:

I just spotted the OP's plan to use Elemental savant Do you realise how poor this PrC is ? It actually reduces your effectiveness by denying you access to 4 elements. Don't take this.

[Psyren]

If you're not opposed to it, A psion kineticist as a blaster is a bit easier to pull off. Kind of effective out of the box as opposed to requiring anything special.

This, or an Educated Wilder can work as well. Wild Surge lets you pump out a lot of power.

[tyckspoon]

I just spotted the OP's plan to use Elemental savant Do you realise how poor this PrC is ? It actually reduces your effectiveness by denying you access to 4 elements. Don't take this.

It's workable if you go Fire/Cold and just Searing Spell/Piercing Cold everything. The problem with using it as a blaster class is it doesn't really give you much that's all that relevant to blasting; over all 10 levels you get +4 to checks against SR and +2 to save DCs. Which is.. nice, ok, yes, but it doesn't directly improve your damage and it doesn't justify the 2 lost casting levels. The main point to the class is the elemental transformation, which is pretty neat (the problem with *that* is that the Elemental Body spell exists, has an hr/level duration, and at spell level 7 is accessible 2 levels earlier than the Elemental Savant's capstone transformation.)

[ericgrau]

I remember playing with a fairly effective elemental savant who got fire spells but then energy subbed / admixtured them all.

[hex0]

Warmage is missing out on a lot of the stuff that people depend on casters for -- like flying, teleportation, etc. It can do CLd6 damage for a large part of the day, but that makes it more of an Archer than a caster.

Without quite a bit of optimization, a Warmage will be outshone(outshined?) by most of the party.

The answer to both of these statements is to play a Warmage 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 10 with Practiced Spellcaster (warmage) for you third level feat. Better if you are a Focused Specialist Wizard (banning Evocation of course).

You can also do Trickster Spellthief 2/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10 as well for caster level shenanigans.

[JohnDaBarr]

I say go with Beguiler1/Wizard4/Ultimate Magus10

Beguiler for utility and fuel for metamagic and Wizard for all the rest aka. blast-stuff you wont go overboard because the slow spell progression and you will end up having more spell slots than HP. just pick the right feats.

[dextercorvia]

The answer to both of these statements is to play a Warmage 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 10 with Practiced Spellcaster (warmage) for you third level feat. Better if you are a Focused Specialist Wizard (banning Evocation of course).

You can also do Trickster Spellthief 2/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10 as well for caster level shenanigans.

You are better off doing Warmage/Sorcerer/UltimateMagus. Warmages don't really care about the couple of points of edge damage (especially 2 - 4 spell levels behind) after level 5 or so. I would also say that the only thing you get out of that is some free metamagic on your Sorcerer (or Wizard) side. I don't know if it is worth the dropped casting level.

[Psyren]

You are better off doing Warmage/Sorcerer/UltimateMagus. Warmages don't really care about the couple of points of edge damage (especially 2 - 4 spell levels behind) after level 5 or so. I would also say that the only thing you get out of that is some free metamagic on your Sorcerer (or Wizard) side. I don't know if it is worth the dropped casting level.

Is that really a good combination? Both are spontaneous; even if you fudge your way in/past your DM with Arcane Preparation on one of the entrants, neither would count as a "prepared arcane casting class" for the advancement.

[dextercorvia]

Is that really a good combination? Both are spontaneous; even if you fudge your way in/past your DM with Arcane Preparation on one of the entrants, neither would count as a "prepared arcane casting class" for the advancement.

No. That is an awful combination -- I misremembered the wording of that ability.

Back to the OP, rather than Sorcerer, you might consider Wu Jen. They get a couple of Blast friendly abilities.

[hex0]

[QUOTE=dextercorvia;12287045]You are better off doing Warmage/Sorcerer/UltimateMagus.QUOTE]

Has to be spontaneous/prepared:

Like Warmage/Merchant Prince (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060308a&page=4) :smallbiggrin: "Be my trading partner or I'll blow your warehouse up!"

Since Wizard casting is your 1st priority, you'll have a high INT to use with your edge in a Ultimage Warwizard build.

Or you could go Warmage 1/Conjurer 4/Ultimate Magus 3/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus 7 to shake things up. Alternatively, Bard 2/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 5 could be tight.