Favored Soul and Tier Questions

[Legendairy]

Ok playgrounders I have looked over the tier list and noticed favored souls are tier 2. I am curious as to why? I am not knocking them or anything I honestly don't know enough and granted I haven't done the research but can someone show a build and give me some example with feats and such that ranks a FS up there with a sorc. Thanks in advance!

Oh and again I'm not saying the tier list is incorrect or anything just saying I'm ignorant to FS.

[The Glyphstone]

Tier 2 is 'narrowly focused gamebreaking power'. Favored Souls have spontaneous access to a selected portion of the Cleric spell list, which is T1-value. They're lower in T2 than a Sorcerer because of their MAD spellcasting, but still T2 version of a Cleric in the way a Sorcerer is T2 to a Wizard's T1.

[Adrayll]

It's a sorcerer. But divine. (With a few class features that don't make a whole lot of difference in the long run.) The only reason it would be inferior is if the divine list was inferior to the arcane, and that's an entirely different discussion. Oh, they cast off two stats, but that's all I can think of that would make them worse.

Edit: Swordsage'd

[AmberVael]

Favored Soul is a caster class that gets 9th level spells, 3/4th BAB, full saves, and a d8 hd. They've got plenty of reason sitting pretty nice up there on the tier list.

Seriously, any build I would give a Favored Soul really just boils down to "Miracle" at the last few levels. Spontaneously cast a spell that can mimic just about every other spell with no cost... yeaaaah.

[Big Fau]

The biggest difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is how much access they have to their spell list, and how readily they can change their loadout.

Tier 1: Access to every single spell on their list (theoretically), and able to change what spells they use on a day to day basis without expending daily resources. Readily capable of having both campaign-ending and encounter-ending spells available.

Tier 2: Access to a fraction of their spell list and may or may not have ways around this (PsiReform), incapable of changing their loadout daily without expending resources. Capable of learning both campaign-ending or encounter-ending spells, but typically focuses on the latter for pragmatism and uses items to make up for lack of the former.

[hex0]

Although they have more spells known than the sorcerer and if well built, they don't have to be MAD. Just focus on buffing and healing as they do have Divine Power. A dip into Sacred Exorcist (or something else that gives you turning) then Prestige Paladin pretty much puts them on par with a cleric.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Away from book, isn't Favored Soul the class that lets you choose your spells known at the begining of each day? Just curious. I remember some spontaneous divine class that does it but can't remember which one.

[NeoSeraphi]

Away from book, isn't Favored Soul the class that lets you choose your spells known at the begining of each day? Just curious. I remember some spontaneous divine class that does it but can't remember which one.

Nope, that's the Spirit Shaman. Same book, different class. Different spell list. (Spirit Shaman is a druid caster)

[JaronK]

Favoured Soul is just like a Sorcerer in general concept, except Divine. There's a few differences of course (The Wis + Cha casting, some nice class features) that make them feel a touch different... but not THAT different.

As to why they're T2, pick the most powerful Cleric spells. Have them. There you go. Personally, I find Guidance of the Avatar/Divine Insight to be one of the best low level spells (SO much flexibility), while obviously stuff like Miracle is potent as hell at high levels. And there's plenty in between.

JaronK

[dextercorvia]

Away from book, isn't Favored Soul the class that lets you choose your spells known at the begining of each day? Just curious. I remember some spontaneous divine class that does it but can't remember which one.

That is Spirit Shaman

[NeoSeraphi]

The only reason it would be inferior is if the divine list was inferior to the arcane, and that's an entirely different discussion

Just in case this thread derails into this discussion, I'm going to throw out there that the cleric spell list without domains is both smaller and much less interesting than the sorc/wiz spell list.

The cleric spell list has more buffs and healing, while the sorc/wiz spell list has much more offensive capability, more enchantments and more illusions, as well as more blasting.

So basically, favored soul is alright for being a walking med-kit with a few nice buffs, but without the extreme versatility of the cleric and the domain access, I'd say it doesn't reach the same level of awesomeness that you can get with a sorcerer (I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong)

Personally, I think that if the sorcerer had the same number of spells known as the favored soul, the sorcerer would see a significant increase in power that the favored soul just wasn't able to work with (again, because of a smaller spell list and limited role selection)

Also, as this is a potentially thread-derailing post, I would be remiss to not include a bear pun. Favored Souls are like weaker clerics, but spirit shamans are like druids without an animal companion! What an ursa-nine concept!

[dextercorvia]

Just in case this thread derails into this discussion, I'm going to throw out there that the cleric spell list without domains is both smaller and much less interesting than the sorc/wiz spell list.



Generally, I would agree with you. I think it is that, moreso than some MAD that puts Favored Soul below Sorcerer in T2.

[Amphetryon]

Obligatory "Favored Soul can break the game in ways Cleric can't as easily by virtue of being a spontaneous caster, per Doc Roc's Algernon of the White Lilies" comment.

That said, in all but niche cases, Favored Soul gets you all the spells you could possibly need, but not often access to all the spells you need right now. Add a weird dual-casting stat requirement to the mix in most cases, and you're staring Tier 2 in the face.

[Psyren]

It's setting-specific, but if you want "spontaneous Cleric" without the MAD issues of FS, check out the Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It also casts spontaneously from a subset of the entire cleric list, but unlike the FS it is Cha-SAD and even gets one free domain.

Note also that it's technically a 1st-party class since the book was published by WotC. (Subsequent Dragonlance books are 3rd-party however.)

[Big Fau]

It's setting-specific, but if you want "spontaneous Cleric" without the MAD issues of FS, check out the Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It also casts spontaneously from a subset of the entire cleric list, but unlike the FS it is Cha-SAD and even gets one free domain.

Note also that it's technically a 1st-party class since the book was published by WotC. (Subsequent Dragonlance books are 3rd-party however.)

Or you can use the Spontaneous Divine Caster option in UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm). The spells known is garbage though.