League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark [Archive] - Page 3

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Daverin

2011-12-01, 12:22 AM

Eh, I don't think that bad players who don't even want to improve will care if you are "supposed" to call MIAs or not; they will just blame you. Honestly, amongst players who are either good or who are willing to learn and are civil to their teammates, communicating MIAs is still helpful, while you can still remind them to develop their map awareness all the same.

Neftren

2011-12-01, 12:30 AM

Edit: I try to remember to do MIAs anyway, although I usually do them as pings along the course I suspect the missing laner is taking.. I type fast, but I still don't like having to open the chat window and not have game control on the keyboard if I'm not in guaranteed safety.

Make sure you multi-ping (usually two is enough, but sometimes three to track direction). It can be easy to miss one or two pings if you're busy trading harass back and forth.

Douglas

2011-12-01, 12:41 AM

I just tried out the new Sivir, and, well... :smallyuk:

I liked old Sivir. I did some serious team-wrecking with her. This new... thing is not Sivir. The auto-attack reset and bonus damage on new ricochet are nice, but having the bounce on every attack was a core essential part of her gameplay. Without that, and with the numbers nerfs, I'm not having nearly as much fun playing her as I used to.

Silverraptor

2011-12-01, 12:55 AM

Misery Esquire

2011-12-01, 01:18 AM

This is a question i saw posed on the riot boards, whos fault is it if you get ganked and the lane didnt call mia.

If top is MIA, mid should've called it.
If mid is missing, the jungler should call it
If bot is missing, the enemy jungler should call it
If Baron is missing... What are you looking for him before the 15 minute mark, anyway?

More seriously, it's a very contextual question. If the lane that was ganked was already playing safe then they should hopefully continue to be safe - unless the gank-er that wasn't called was one of the champions that can safely tower-dive or murder them from beyond sight range, in which case it's not the gank-ee's fault, and not nessecarily the lane with the MIA's fault, but something that really should've been called, and should be called in the future. Don't bother blaming anyone for it, just ask, politely, for future warning. Claiming to be a map-unaware neeb will liking get you some (many) pings from those more map aware. (Or insults from the "pros")

Eurus

2011-12-01, 01:28 AM

In other words, you can no longer 1v5 the enemy team. Its okay, we understand.:smallwink:

Personally, I was never good enough with Sivir to steamroll that hard, I just enjoyed the old playstyle. :smalltongue:

toasty

2011-12-01, 01:30 AM

Dienekes

2011-12-01, 01:37 AM

So anyone have any info on Volibear. I've played with them a couple times and I'm not sure if the bear is terrible or if I'm stuck with the only iidiots who don't know what to do with him?

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 01:55 AM

So it seems that, despite all the effort, LeBlanc and Lee Sin can still go all Superman on you and fountain-dive with their dashes. It makes me think they're only removing certain cases it can happen in, and are thus only solving the problem bit by bit.

EDIT: To clarify, referring to forced fountain dive via glitch.

Eldariel

2011-12-01, 02:08 AM

Hmmm. TT team consisting of TwitCho'gatHeimer?

Also Annivia is a girl Lixie (As far as I can remember, I may be wrong)

Pretty sure that was a *sic* quote.

So it seems that, despite all the effort, LeBlanc and Lee Sin can still go all Superman on you and fountain-dice with their dashes.It makes me think they're only removing certain cases it can happen in, and are thus only solving the problem bit by bit.

What problem? Vlad can still Pool into the base turret, too. If they wanted for it to be an insta-death, it would be an insta-death.

dgnslyr

2011-12-01, 02:12 AM

Anybody ballsy enough to dive into the fountain to score a kill probably deserves it. It's really such a corner case, now that the turret does such obscene damage I don't know why it's an issue worth worrying about.

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 02:18 AM

toasty

2011-12-01, 03:17 AM

They reverted the Baron/Dragon Nerfs. YESSSSSS.

Also: I'm on a winning streak! YEAAAAH Maybe I can make Silver AND STAY THERE THIS TIME.

ex cathedra

2011-12-01, 03:18 AM

So anyone have any info on Volibear. I've played with them a couple times and I'm not sure if the bear is terrible or if I'm stuck with the only iidiots who don't know what to do with him?

His W is just absolutely bonkers. Some people think you should build him tanky AP (they're wrong). Some people suggest Atmog's (which works just because of how crazy warmog's is). I just take him top lane, farm Wriggles+Mercs+HoG and then finish up a Warmogs along with anything else.

Just farm and harass when you can. If you get in a fight early just try to avoid creep damage. Once you get them down to like 50% or 60% HP just attack them, fling them, attack them, E them, and kill them with W. It's absolutely outrageous.

balistafreak

2011-12-01, 03:23 AM

No, I mean the glitch where you can be totally elsewhere on the map and suddenly WARP TEN, CAPTAIN you're in their fountain. Or sometimes yours, but that isn't as funny.

EDIT: When the hell did I turn into Dogmantra?

Not into the fountain, but apparently even instant-gapclosers can teleport players too. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUsibvn2eAc)

Daverin

2011-12-01, 03:38 AM

His W is just absolutely bonkers. Some people think you should build him tanky AP (they're wrong). Some people suggest Atmog's (which works just because of how crazy warmog's is). I just take him top lane, farm Wriggles+Mercs+HoG and then finish up a Warmogs along with anything else.

Just farm and harass when you can. If you get in a fight early just try to avoid creep damage. Once you get them down to like 50% or 60% HP just attack them, fling them, attack them, E them, and kill them with W. It's absolutely outrageous.

I've been reading about alot of it on the forums, but if the only problem is a W that isn't "quite" a supernuke until they are already down and is subject to resistances really isn't any worse than Cho's ult (and, given the CD, it really will only happen once unless it is a really wonky fight.) My question then is: Does the rest of his kit also allow him to pull plenty of damage? I would imagine an AS buff and a temporary (although decent length considering other temporary ults) AoE on hit means he still can pull plenty of damage, but until someone confirms it, W alone does not quite scare me.

EDIT: So, lol, apparently the jungle changes affected 3v3. Apparently, whatever problems Rift has, Treeline jungling is basically dependent upon what spawns show up given the changes. Interesting/weird. Also, Morello preparing to either buff/somewhat unnerf Morde. Also, when did I become the resident redtracker? :smalltongue:

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-01, 06:07 AM

This is a question i saw posed on the riot boards, whos fault is it if you get ganked and the lane didnt call mia.

Yours. If you're extended enough that the other lanes can gank you, you could have been killed by the jungler, too.

Yes, MIAs are good, but they're more important w.r.t. dragon. If bot and mid suddenly both go mia, you know to check dragon.

Istari

2011-12-01, 07:17 AM

High elo players LOVE Sivir now, just fyi. Maybe she's not as fun, but she's good.

Yeah, I've been having a blast playing her, even if my early game is only meh, I still do really well. Right now I'm building Bloodthrister, TriForce, Atmogs

Pretty sure that was a *sic* quote.

What problem? Vlad can still Pool into the base turret, too. If they wanted for it to be an insta-death, it would be an insta-death.

If I remember correctly, trying to do that as vlad still gets you killed by the turret.

ex cathedra

2011-12-01, 07:43 AM

I would imagine an AS buff and a temporary (although decent length considering other temporary ults) AoE on hit means he still can pull plenty of damage, but until someone confirms it, W alone does not quite scare me.

Are you afraid of Garen's ult? Because it's kind of like that. He can't burst you from full to dead, no, but he can do a lot of sustained damage and if you don't have enough sustain to stop him from getting you to 35% HP or enough damage to force him out of lane (while taking his passive into account), he'll just kill you. Also if you attack him he'll just fling you into minion aggro, slow you, and fear away all of the aggro from your minions. That's pretty much how it works. He's by no means unbeatable or even a super strong laner but he can just wreck anyone who isn't prepared.

Also, when did I become the resident redtracker? :smalltongue:

As far as I know, you aren't, you're just the only one who feels the need to post about it. :smallwink:

LordShotGun

2011-12-01, 07:43 AM

Just bought akali. So far I love blowing people up on dominion but due to a lack of appropriate runes, I have yet to take her onto summoners rift.

Dragonus45

2011-12-01, 07:44 AM

As far as I know, you aren't, you're just the only one who feels the need to post about it. :smallwink:

Well it certainly helps me out, i can never find all these posts from the devs, and its nice to know whats going on.

ex cathedra

2011-12-01, 07:48 AM

Qwertystop

2011-12-01, 08:28 AM

Half that, actually.

Why half? Maximum champion level is 18, and you get 1 point per level.

Fine, to fix my example, more than 1 point in Singed's Fling is redundant, as it isn't taken for the damage, and increases mana cost.

Again:
Anyone have tips for Karma? I hear she's underrated.

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-12-01, 08:29 AM

Speaking of Redtracker, Morello's being very talkative here, (http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/22116/?b=3&p=1) discussing design philosophy, champ remakes, and other tidbits.

Notably

Any plans for Kayle?
Chainsaw to that one. No mercy, no adherence to what she currently is.

Eeep.

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 08:47 AM

Why half? Maximum champion level is 18, and you get 1 point per level.

And as you may or may not have noticed, you cannot in fact max a skill before you take your ult. This is because even non-ult skills have level reqs. You can put a point in an ult every time you gain 5 levels, and you can put a point in any non-ult skill as long as you are (skill level)*2-1. This essentially means a new rank every odd level, and there are 9 odd levels from 1-18 (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17). Thus, 9 would be the max for a skill if you use the same conventions for leveling, just remove the hardcap. Otherwise, why are you keeping the conventions for ults?

Daverin

2011-12-01, 08:49 AM

Speaking of Redtracker, Morello's being very talkative here, (http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/22116/?b=3&p=1) discussing design philosophy, champ remakes, and other tidbits.

Notably

Eeep.

I already even gave the exact quote earlier. Good to see I'm being payed attention to. :smallwink::smalltongue:

Qwertystop

2011-12-01, 09:06 AM

And as you may or may not have noticed, you cannot in fact max a skill before you take your ult. This is because even non-ult skills have level reqs. You can put a point in an ult every time you gain 5 levels, and you can put a point in any non-ult skill as long as you are (skill level)*2-1. This essentially means a new rank every odd level, and there are 9 odd levels from 1-18 (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17). Thus, 9 would be the max for a skill if you use the same conventions for leveling, just remove the hardcap. Otherwise, why are you keeping the conventions for ults?

Ah. I never really noticed that, somehow. I just fell into the pattern of taking certain abilities at certain levels, so I eventually forgot that taking certain other abilities was impossible (beyond the 5-point cap, of course).

I was keeping the conventions for ults because the entire (mechanical) reason they're ults (as opposed to fourth regular abilities, see Udyr) is that they are limited to taking a point at levels 6, 11, and 16.

Lix Lorn

2011-12-01, 09:20 AM

Also Annivia is a girl Lixie (As far as I can remember, I may be wrong)

Pretty sure that was a *sic* quote.
Yeah, I would have corrected them but they left chat before I could. xD

Dragonus45

2011-12-01, 10:02 AM

By redtracker he literally means someone who uses a redtracker. (http://clgaming.net/redtracker/board/3)

I could have sworn that a link to a redtracker was in the first post...

Edit:

Anyways!

Is it just me or, with the removal of Nimbleness of course, are flat AD runes just the best ever?

Uhhhhm i totally knew about that, i was just testing you.

For sivir im not sure if i want to be an I edge or bloodthirsters first. What would yall recommend.

Daverin

2011-12-01, 10:11 AM

Dragonus45

2011-12-01, 10:14 AM

Hmm... I am pretty sure the answer pre-rework would have been BT since so much damage was from the Ricochet AoE, which would only crit on the first target. Since she now seems to rely greatly on single target damage as well, I "think" you should, or at least can, start with the IE first.

Ive tried both, and the Edge seems to have the edge. Especially in really hard split pushing, since i tend to die doing it and lose stacks. I really miss having the life steal though, im hoping someone with high mathmancy could help me out. I was actually thinking of skipping the tri force and going straight to a thirster and an edge. And getting the Tri later.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-01, 10:39 AM

I just got an amazing new computer, and for the first time ever, I saw the shadows of the character models and the little bugs crawling around on Twisted Treeline. So, naturally, wanting to make to make my gaming experience awesome, I hooked it up to my TV via HDMI cable to use it as a monitor.

The only problem is that it cuts off the edges of the screen, and I can't see the game time, kills/deaths, or any other information which is somewhat useful that shows up around the edge. I've tried adjusting the screen size both via the television menu and via the screen resolution menu from the desktop. Does anyone have any suggestions to crank my gaming experience up to 11?

Darth Mario

2011-12-01, 10:41 AM

Lix Lorn

2011-12-01, 10:48 AM

I just went on a duo queue with Fred in a normal. Picked Anivia. Decided not to get Mejais, cause I wasn't sure I could get the kills. (I was 1/0/0 at this point)
Few minutes later I was 4/0/0. Bought mejais AS WELL as the hextech revolver I had. Never bought any defence other than my RoA.
Went 23/2/8. 15k gold. Finished my build. :smallbiggrin:

I think the lesson here is that playing my very best champ while duo queueing with someone lower level is overkill. :smalltongue:

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-01, 10:53 AM

Without looking at the moment, League may have its own aspect ratio settings. Start up a custom game and go poking around in the graphics panel.

I spent about ten minutes fooling around with that and couldn't get it to work. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Also, to clarify, the monitor cuts the edges of the screen off even when I'm not playing LoL.

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 11:05 AM

I spent about ten minutes fooling around with that and couldn't get it to work. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Also, to clarify, the monitor cuts the edges of the screen off even when I'm not playing LoL.

This is an issue with your TV + Graphics card combo (mostly the TV more than the Graphics card). Basically, the format used for televisions have a rather significant 'buffer' used to compensate for all the various types of displays. PCs, however, use 1 to 1 pixel mapping and thus don't use a buffer. Normally, this isn't a problem due to TV standards declaring that TVs should provide special EDID information through the HDMI cable which gives the computer enough information to compensate. However, cheapish as well as certain 'rogue' companies don't agree to the standard and causes this bad break.

The fix for this is to either:
Add a buffer to the display (certain graphics cards will let you do this, look for 'Overscan mode')
Enable 1 to 1 pixel mapping on the TV (only certain TVs allow you to do this - check the menus)

If neither of these work, you need to force your computer to assume a specific EDID for your TV. This can be a bit complex so hopefully it shouldn't come to this.

EDIT:
You might also be able to solve this by updating your television. Most modern TVs should have a USB port meant for updates.
Also, 'Overscan mode' and '1 to 1 pixel mapping' might be hiding under a different name. (Overscan mode can also be 'TV mode' or 'Overscan Compensation' for example)

Dogmantra

2011-12-01, 11:08 AM

Anyone got tips for Karma? I hear she's underrated
Okie dokie, Karma is one of my favourite champions (though like half the champions in the game are that apparently) and I think I'm quite good. So what you want to do first and foremost is try to get a solo lane because this is a true fact that is true:
Karma is not a support character.
I repeat:
Karma is not a support character.
She's a sustainy/bursty mage with support tendencies. Most importantly though, she REALLY wants farm, if only for a Hat to make her passive better. She can duo lane, true, but it won't be a nofarm carry/support lane. In fact, she's a wonderful pick for double mage bots because she's almost support but also bitchin' and that is like four points in her favour.

Anyway, masteries can be 8/1/21 if you want to take Heal, but I don't recommend that, it's more a Janna-y page. You can do 9/0/21 like ze old times, it's good, but you can also do 21/0/9 or 21/9/0. I honestly forget which one I do but I think it might be 9/0/21 or 21/0/9 (utility tree so goooooooooooooooood). Runes... I just use a standard caster page. AP and CDR are great, MPen can also be useful. Movespeed's also nice. Maybe get some mana regen seals or something? Summoners that are good: Flash, Heal, Exhaust, Ignite, Ghost, Cleanse. Personally I go Flash/Ghost and very occasionally Flash/Heal and sometimes Flash/Cleanse.

Itemwise, boots is always a solid start, as is Doran's Ring. You wanna grab yourself a Philosopher's Stone to start (unfortunately there's no Double Philo Black Cleaver anymore :( 'cause of lameo stacking nerfs). For boots, either Stompers or Treads (you want the Stompers ideally). Then you want a Hat. No exceptions, you want a Hat. You want probably four Hats but that's not likely. After that, situational. Get as much AP as you can get without dying (helpful hint: Karma's absurdly hard to kill if you play her well even without many defenses). Abyssal Sceptre, Hourglass and Rylai's are good, as is Will of the Ancients. You might want to upgrade your Philosopher's Stone to a Shurelia's at some point and probably pick up a Quicksilver Sash if you need one (partly because they're both useful on Karma and partly because they are absurdly OP). An alternative item build is Philo Stone > Black Cleaver > Phantom Dancer > Infinity Edge. AD Karma so OP nerf now.

Anyway, skilling, I suggest focusing Fans. Fans are so good. Fans are the only skill other than Daggers that gets a pluralised noun as a name that's not even their name. (Daggers of course being Shen's thing). Some people focus her shield, but I find Fans are much more useful for securing kills and whatnot. Secondary focus goes into your shield though, it's damn good too (and Mantra on shielded minions is funny as heck, especially when you deny a last hit with it too). One point in Laser Beam of Speed is useful in lane, but beyond that it's not too great to be focusing until teamfights, the damage is really unreliable in lane and the slow/speed boost is normally enough to escape. If you really need a bigger slow/speed boost just use a Mantra on it.

That's a point, Mantra. What to use them on? I suggest always saving one for Fans because Mantra on Fans is so useful (and you want to do it when you're low on health - not only is the heal mostly %health missing but also you get more AP when you're low, so it'll do maybe one or two more %). Typically your other one will either go on another Fans for after the fight starts, or your shield on whoever initiated for a bit of burst damage. Don't be afraid to use Mantra on your shield to secure kills (after all: you are not support), and make sure to run around trying to hit everyone with your Laser Beam of Speed during teamfights. Karma has this weird yet awesome playstyle that I can describe only as "So similar to Psychopomp it is crazy" and it revolves around the idea that you don't care not even one bit. You sort of circle fights, not so close you get caught in AoEs, but close enough for your Fans to hit everyone/most people. Ideally, by the way, for your Laser Beam of Speed, you want to drop it on a melee chap on your own team, so it can deal damage to everyone on the enemy team.

This is a question i saw posed on the riot boards, whos fault is it if you get ganked and the lane didnt call mia.

Yours; getting pissy about MIA calls is a way to deflect the blame from the fact that you were probably pushing too hard, couldn't be bothered to buy and place a couple of wards to do so in relative safety, and might have been too tunnel-visioned on your own lane to glance over to the minimap and realize that the lane nearest yours doesn't have an enemy laner visible in it, maybe you should be a bit more cautious. Your own teammate should have called the MIA, it's good practice to do so, but the fact that you were in a position to be ganked is entirely the result of your own actions.
Tyckspoon is the rightest. Calling MIAs has got people killed before and it takes longer than just looking at the dang minimap. Obviously if you're in the bush doing nothing and there's no threat then you can call it, but otherwise, you're fine not calling it. You don't even need a single ward to protect against lane ganks, it's very easy to tell who's ganking where when they leave the lane (protip: if they leave bot, they are ganking mid, if they don't show up mid they're doing dragon, if they leave top they are ganking mid, if they don't show up mid they're taking blue team's blue buff and if they leave mid, just look at which bush they leave from).

Also, every single person I have seen say "no mia" has been bad/the sort of person I never want to play with again. Same sort of people who play LeBlanc and dive into five when your entire team is on 10% health then dies and says "my team doesn't follow me" in allchat.

How can team communication and assistance be a bad habbit? Isn't it really both peoples fault, yea the ganked person should have had better map awareness, had wards, whatever else it was that he did. But calling mia isnt going to make your fingers fall off. Its a team game, isnt it?
Calling mia, especially in solos, will often lose you some farm, maybe get harrassed. Not quite making your fingers fall off, but it's like a tradition of touching your nose with your left hand just before ulting. Sure it might make you feel better but you have to accept that you can replace that ritual with not doing it and then you'll be better.

My favourite thing is when people go "no mia on eve". Well what did you expect? She's Evelynn, she's not going to stay in the lane all day doing nothing because she's rubbish. Of COURSE she's going to go ganking with her stealth. Do you also want me to call every time Vayne uses her Tumble?

Actually, my real favourite thing is when people yell at you for no mia when they didn't die. What on EARTH is the problem? Even if we called mia, nothing would be different.

EDIT: When the hell did I turn into Dogmantra?

Whatty what now?

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-01, 11:08 AM

This is an issue with your TV + Graphics card combo (mostly the TV more than the Graphics card). Basically, the format used for televisions have a rather significant 'buffer' used to compensate for all the various types of displays. PCs, however, use 1 to 1 pixel mapping and thus don't use a buffer. Normally, this isn't a problem due to TV standards declaring that TVs should provide special EDID information through the HDMI cable which gives the computer enough information to compensate. However, cheapish as well as certain 'rogue' companies don't agree to the standard and causes this bad break.

The fix for this is to either:
Add a buffer to the display (certain graphics cards will let you do this, look for 'Overscan mode')
Enable 1 to 1 pixel mapping on the TV (only certain TVs allow you to do this - check the menus)

If neither of these work, you need to force your computer to assume a specific EDID for your TV. This can be a bit complex so hopefully it shouldn't come to this.

Where would I find Overscan mode?

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 11:17 AM

Where would I find Overscan mode?

It has different locations depending on graphics card and what versions of the drivers you have for that graphics card, unfortunately.
Also, it can be "TV mode", "Overscan Compensation", and other possibilities.

Basically, overscan issues and how to fix them are specific to each person's individual hardware and software. :smallfrown:

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-01, 11:29 AM

It has different locations depending on graphics card and what versions of the drivers you have for that graphics card, unfortunately.
Also, it can be "TV mode", "Overscan Compensation", and other possibilities.

Basically, overscan issues and how to fix them are specific to each person's individual hardware and software. :smallfrown:

Hurm. I seem to have found the graphics card (an AMD Radeon HD 6850, if that matters) in a screen resolution menu, but I have no way of interacting with it outside of Update, Disable, or Uninstall. Is there anything else I can do, or am I out of luck?

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 11:41 AM

Hurm. I seem to have found the graphics card (an AMD Radeon HD 6850, if that matters) in a screen resolution menu, but I have no way of interacting with it outside of Update, Disable, or Uninstall. Is there anything else I can do, or am I out of luck?

You should be able to right click your desktop and open the Catalyst Control Center. AMD/ATI store overscan controls in a "Scaling" menu while configuring specific displays.

If you don't have a Catalyst Control Center... get new drivers for your card from the AMD website. Immediately. Not having the actual drivers for your card is like purchasing a new house and then only using the garage because you didn't bother to go grab your door keys from the real estate agency.

tyckspoon

2011-12-01, 11:42 AM

Hurm. I seem to have found the graphics card (an AMD Radeon HD 6850, if that matters) in a screen resolution menu, but I have no way of interacting with it outside of Update, Disable, or Uninstall. Is there anything else I can do, or am I out of luck?

You want the actual graphics card control panel, not the Windows settings panels. For the more recent versions of the drivers it should be labeled "Catalyst Control Center" or "AMD VISION Engine control center"; on my computer it's pinned at the top of the right-click context menu (the one you get when you right-click on empty desktop space.) You should be able to dig it out by going through the Control Panel as well if you have to.

Joran

2011-12-01, 12:09 PM

So anyone have any info on Volibear. I've played with them a couple times and I'm not sure if the bear is terrible or if I'm stuck with the only iidiots who don't know what to do with him?

As a bot stomper, he is beyond repute. A consistent execute on a relatively low cooldown, holy crap! I have a feeling that W is going to get a numbers nerf at some point.

I haven't played him on SR, but he seemed like he was a really good fit on Dominion. He's a good duelist, very tanky, but alas, Warmog's is no longer on the map.

As always, it depends on the skill. I heard from someone that their Volibear tossed the opposing Volibear onto his squishy... With very poor results.

P.S. Am I crazy for thinking Wit's End would be a good item for him? Attack Speed really amps up his ultimate's power.

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 12:13 PM

When I saw his kit, my immediate thought process was "generic tanky DPS, slightly more health focused. Definitely a Wit's End tanky dps, because of the ult".

littlebottom

2011-12-01, 12:32 PM

what?! i just tried to log on, and yeah i know that sometimes especially a little while back you get a problem of waiting, but im "over 20000" in the line and there is a 1 and a half hours wait?

seriously thats beyond bad, i only wanted to play a couple games, now im not sure that by the time i get in i will have time for even a dominion.:smallmad:

EDIT: in pretty short order its dropped down to 40 minutes, but thats still stupidly long:smallannoyed:

ShortOne

2011-12-01, 12:35 PM

How big is LoL? Would it be able to fit on my 4GB flash drive? And could I get it to launch from there?

Joran

2011-12-01, 12:42 PM

When I saw his kit, my immediate thought process was "generic tanky DPS, slightly more health focused. Definitely a Wit's End tanky dps, because of the ult".

Agreed. Atma's and Warmog's seem like no brainers (although, no Warmog's in Dominion, so sad). I think the TriForce in a lot of tanky DPS builds is not a good choice for him, because his cooldowns are a little long to maximize the procs.

Shurelia's seems like it'd be a good item on him.

Fredaintdead

2011-12-01, 01:03 PM

I don't think TriForce is a good choice for him, because his cooldowns are a little long to maximize the procs. Atma's and Warmog's seem like no brainers (although, no Warmog's in Dominion, so sad).

Shurelia's seems like it'd be a good item on him.

Shurelia's does seem very useful, especially on a tank build.

Well, I sort of planned out my own TankyDPS build for him:
Pendant+HealthPot start. Grab Boots1, then Warmogs, Merc Treads, P.D, Atmas, Spirit Visage and finish with Frozen Mallet.
It worked amazingly well in its first game (bot game, but still, 32/1/2 sounds damn good to me, especially considering we had 2 disconnects).
Conclusion: Health and AS seem like the biggest wants on the big bear.

Theorised Alternatives:
Phantom Dancer could be easily replaced with Wit's End, but the movement speed bonus is sooooo nice on the big slow bear, and the crit is just a bonus out of that 800 extra gold. *shrugs*
I didn't notice a terrible difference in killing power when I got Atmas, but it could be traded out for a Randuin's I'd assume if you wanted to get more tanky.

Just my twenty pence, I'm terrible at LoL really as far as I'm concerned, but meh, I had a lot of fun developing and using my own build, and intend to use it until a better TankyDPS Volibear build becomes available.

tyckspoon

2011-12-01, 01:04 PM

How big is LoL? Would it be able to fit on my 4GB flash drive? And could I get it to launch from there?

My League file is a touch under 3GB. Only way to know if it'll launch from a portable drive is to try it and find out; I don't know what method of installation LoL uses.

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 01:04 PM

How big is LoL? Would it be able to fit on my 4GB flash drive? And could I get it to launch from there?

My League of Legends folder is 2.4 gb, though I am sure it stores info of some sort somewhere else on my computer, though it may just be logs and whatnot. I've actually never tried launching LoL from a USB drive, as all my friends also play LoL, so they computers I am likely to play it on already have it. You could either simply trial-and-error it, or possibly ask the wrenchmen on the LoL forums.

EDIT: For the record, Fredaintdead, bot games are not a good judge of power. AD anyone, for example, will get similar scores. When I say AD anyone, I don't just mean traditional AD carries, I mean you can build anyone with range as straight AD carry and any melee as Atmog's tanky DPS and get good scores.

EDIT2: Oh, and I would replace Phantom Dancer+Spirit Visage with Wit's End+FoN. Almost as fast, almost as much damage, MUCH more survivability.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-01, 01:06 PM

You should be able to right click your desktop and open the Catalyst Control Center. AMD/ATI store overscan controls in a "Scaling" menu while configuring specific displays.

You want the actual graphics card control panel, not the Windows settings panels. For the more recent versions of the drivers it should be labeled "Catalyst Control Center" or "AMD VISION Engine control center"; on my computer it's pinned at the top of the right-click context menu (the one you get when you right-click on empty desktop space.) You should be able to dig it out by going through the Control Panel as well if you have to.

You are both my heroes.

ShortOne

2011-12-01, 01:07 PM

Thanks, guys. I may or may not have time to try it, but it seems like it would fit on my disk.

tribble

2011-12-01, 01:14 PM

Atmogs turns nearly any melee character into a powerhouse in human games, too.:smallamused:

Neftren

2011-12-01, 01:14 PM

Thanks, guys. I may or may not have time to try it, but it seems like it would fit on my disk.

The main client probably isn't portable (you could keep the files on the external, but you'd only be able to run it off the computer it was originally installed on). At some point in time there used to be a standalone client that did work between machines. My current theory is that a USB-stick installation of LoL will function properly on any machine with Adobe Air installed, but keybinds, graphics settings, mastery pages, will not stick properly.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-01, 01:15 PM

His ult is an INSANE amount of damage output. He scales much much better with attack speed than any other stat. Attack speed and tankiness, that's all you want. I'd say Wit's End is the most obvious option, but other good choices would include: Stinger/Nashor's Tooth, malady, or Madred's.

(Seriously. He does 155 damage per hit to 5 nearby enemies. That's like having 750 AD. You don't need more.)

Fredaintdead

2011-12-01, 01:29 PM

My League of Legends folder is 2.4 gb, though I am sure it stores info of some sort somewhere else on my computer, though it may just be logs and whatnot. I've actually never tried launching LoL from a USB drive, as all my friends also play LoL, so they computers I am likely to play it on already have it. You could either simply trial-and-error it, or possibly ask the wrenchmen on the LoL forums.

EDIT: For the record, Fredaintdead, bot games are not a good judge of power. AD anyone, for example, will get similar scores. When I say AD anyone, I don't just mean traditional AD carries, I mean you can build anyone with range as straight AD carry and any melee as Atmog's tanky DPS and get good scores.

EDIT2: Oh, and I would replace Phantom Dancer+Spirit Visage with Wit's End+FoN. Almost as fast, almost as much damage, MUCH more survivability.

I don't tend to do very well in LoL at all to be fair. I know bot games aren't a good measure of power, but I'm happy it worked all the same. I'm not trying to say that it's brilliant, or that I'm brilliant, just that it worked much better than I expected it to. I'm level 14, and I don't have a high opinion of my skills ever (I do play normals, but when I do, I tend to take the champs I'm most familiar with, i.e Olaf, Xin Zhao and Tristana). Besides, it was like, my second game with Volibear ever, I don't quite feel ready to take him to Normals just yet.

As for Wit's End+FoN replacing PD+Spirit Visage, I'll make sure to test it somewhere at some point. Maybe soon, but I've got a lot of uni work to do, so I should get back to that.

His ult is an INSANE amount of damage output. He scales much much better with attack speed than any other stat. Attack speed and tankiness, that's all you want. I'd say Wit's End is the most obvious option, but other good choices would include: Stinger/Nashor's Tooth, malady, or Madred's.

(Seriously. He does 155 damage per hit to 5 nearby enemies. That's like having 750 AD. You don't need more.)

I'll make sure to take this into account. And that ult does do tons of damage. /phreak

tyckspoon

2011-12-01, 01:40 PM

Silverraptor

2011-12-01, 01:52 PM

So, a big windstorm swept through my area, knocking over trees and powerlines, so I have no power in my house. I am at my college which somehow is not letting me log into mumble. So I don't think I'll be around for a few days.

Although Steam and skype are working...

Joran

2011-12-01, 02:03 PM

For the record, Fredaintdead, bot games are not a good judge of power. AD anyone, for example, will get similar scores. When I say AD anyone, I don't just mean traditional AD carries, I mean you can build anyone with range as straight AD carry and any melee as Atmog's tanky DPS and get good scores.

The one thing I got from the bot game was how much damage Frenzy did. Holy crap, Shen would be at a third health and one Frenzy and he was down.

Also, it looks like Volibear is kind of a nightmare to itemize defenses against. His W is a pretty hard physical nuke, but his E and Ult are both magical damage. Throw on a Wit's End and he's doing a large amount of both kind's of damage.

tribble

2011-12-01, 02:19 PM

The one thing I got from the bot game was how much damage Frenzy did. Holy crap, Shen would be at a third health and one Frenzy and he was down.

Also, it looks like Volibear is kind of a nightmare to itemize defenses against. His W is a pretty hard physical nuke, but his E and Ult are both magical damage. Throw on a Wit's End and he's doing a large amount of both kind's of damage.

And people were QQing about fizz being OP. Fizz you can pretty much build magic resist and forget about.

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 02:28 PM

Re: LoL on a flash drive:
Got curious, decided to test. Copying my install to a drive now. I'll let you know how it works when it finishes transferring... (slow drive + big chunk of files = I have time to go do my grocery shopping while this goes on. -_-)

Should work, just keep an Adobe Air installer with you.

Also, settings such as keybindings and masteries are stored in local config files. Not much is actually set in the registry.
For context, we pass around the internal client by just whole copies of the folder, not an installer.

tyckspoon

2011-12-01, 02:28 PM

Also, it looks like Volibear is kind of a nightmare to itemize defenses against. His W is a pretty hard physical nuke, but his E and Ult are both magical damage. Throw on a Wit's End and he's doing a large amount of both kind's of damage.

I'd probably concentrate on defending against physical; that burst nuke out of W would be the thing that really scares me. (Also because I *really* like Frozen Heart as a defensive item, and the attack speed reduction on that helps defend against the ult and reduces the benefit of Frenzy for him, so it helps cover the other angle pretty well. Damage off Roar I would not expect to be a big problem unless he's building full out AP.) Of course, you could do both with a Guardian Angel (plus perhaps Treads for your boots) or just build raw health instead; he doesn't have a percentile damage attack to counter that.

Should work, just keep an Adobe Air installer with you.
Well, it launches, at least. Little bit slower than my hard-drive installed client, but that's not a big surprise. Don't know how it'll fare in-game, and I haven't tried it on a computer that doesn't already have LoL installed; I don't know how much it might be using of resources already on the computer.

Neftren

2011-12-01, 02:37 PM

Eldariel

2011-12-01, 02:45 PM

Should work, just keep an Adobe Air installer with you.

Also, settings such as keybindings and masteries are stored in local config files. Not much is actually set in the registry.
For context, we pass around the internal client by just whole copies of the folder, not an installer.

Speaking of key bindings, is it yet possible to tie Normal cast for abilities to Shift+QWER? 'cause I use Smartcast by default but occasionally want Normal cast available for checking ability ranges and shapes and such. Right now I have to waste keys ASDF for normal casts if I want them accessible (which makes it hard to bind e.g. attack-move reasonably). I haven't tried to rebind in a while so I don't know if they've been fixed, though.

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 02:50 PM

The only thing the client seems to add registry keys for are firewall exceptions, though that's only what I've found so far.

I wonder if there's a portable installation of Adobe Air... hmmm...

http://get.adobe.com/air/

We use 2.7 something I believe, but using a later version shouldn't be an issue iirc.

Joran

2011-12-01, 03:13 PM

And people were QQing about fizz being OP. Fizz you can pretty much build magic resist and forget about.

Fizz in the right hands is a scary assassin that's very hard to catch. Fizz in the wrong hands tends to eat CC and die quickly.

That's probably true of all assassins actually. Except Poppy, she's special.

Kairaven

2011-12-01, 03:16 PM

Speaking of key bindings, is it yet possible to tie Normal cast for abilities to Shift+QWER? 'cause I use Smartcast by default but occasionally want Normal cast available for checking ability ranges and shapes and such. Right now I have to waste keys ASDF for normal casts if I want them accessible (which makes it hard to bind e.g. attack-move reasonably). I haven't tried to rebind in a while so I don't know if they've been fixed, though.

should work in key binding.

Alternatively you can just use left mouse button click on the GUI ability buttons to do the same thing. that's what I do for range checks.

TechnOkami

2011-12-01, 03:16 PM

So, I've got a request for you Shaco players out there.

I've recently indoctrinated one of my friends into the LoL craze, (though he's played it before) and he's taken a liking to Shaco. In a bot game, it's fine, but in a real game... well, let's just say we played one and it didn't go over so well.

So, how do you pay/build the sneaky little joker?

Kairaven

2011-12-01, 03:19 PM

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 03:19 PM

should work in key binding.

I suspect the question was raised because it does not (or did not) work.

Alternatively you can just use left mouse button click on the GUI ability buttons to do the same thing. that's what I do for range checks.

Which, as all RTS players know, slows you down by quite a bit when trying to do something. Using a mouse for all your actions is SLOW. That's why we use hotkeys.

EDIT: Box Shaco is weak Shaco. You rely entirely on the enemy being stupid instead of you being good, which makes it incredibly unreliable, moreso than most assassins (already an unreliable archetype). Deathfire Grasp damage is multiplied by your attack from behind passive, so throw the dagger, shoot off the DFG, and try to position yourself that you're between them and safety, so you can drop a box and get a chance of some small extra damage.

Teamfights are basically popping in, throwing dagger and popping out again, with the notable exception of suiciding your clone into the enemy team for the surprisingly robust AoE damage.

Daverin

2011-12-01, 03:27 PM

So, it sounds like Volibear is very strong, but is he at "going to get nerfed" levels, or just at the high end of balanced?

Kairaven

2011-12-01, 03:42 PM

I suspect the question was raised because it does not (or did not) work.

Which, as all RTS players know, slows you down by quite a bit when trying to do something. Using a mouse for all your actions is SLOW. That's why we use hotkeys.

Lack of tone in post and all that, it still seem a bit insulting. :smallannoyed: Of course I know why he raise the question, and that mouse clicks slows one down.

I said "should" because I seem to remember being able to bind normal with key combo the other day when I was messing around with my bindings. but I can't verify because I am not at home.

And mouse click is an alternative, frankly if you are in a situation where it's so busy, you probably don't have time to hotkey check range anyway. I check my range when I am walking to back to lane or hiding in bushes. it gives me enough of an idea of what my skill range and areas are that I can use them with out having to refer to it during a desperate fight.

sucatraps

2011-12-01, 03:44 PM

I dunno, getting out the AoE to see when Tibbers is going to catch 3 people instead of 2 is a really good use for it, but the mouse is hardly conductive (you could miss an opportunity while the mouse is traveling down, then back up).

Also, sorry if the post came across as demeaning, insulting or belittling. It was not my intention in the least.

EDIT: Cast Spell 1-4 cannot be bound to Shift+Thing

tribble

2011-12-01, 03:46 PM

No, poppy in the wrong hands tends to get no farm and either kill the person she ulted instantly and then get obliterated herself because she now doesn't have her invuln or ult Cho'gath and get quite literally eaten.

I'm saving for Swain, anything I should be wary of?

Penguinizer

2011-12-01, 03:50 PM

Expect to get stomped by most popular mids. Most outrange him and can kite him to death.

Joran

2011-12-01, 03:50 PM

So, it sounds like Volibear is very strong, but is he at "going to get nerfed" levels, or just at the high end of balanced?

Hard to tell really. Have any of the high ELO people weighed in?

He's not game destroyingly good, but his numbers seem like they should be tweaked a little downward.

P.S. I'll admit it, I judge balance by the high-level play. When Rumble was constantly banned during Dreamhack I was surprised. I was not so surprised when Graves was constantly banned.

No, poppy in the wrong hands tends to get no farm and either kill the person she ulted instantly and then get obliterated herself because she now doesn't have her invuln or ult Cho'gath and get quite literally eaten.

Unless you're in Dominion in which case she starts to become very annoying to kill after awhile, while doing a crapton of damage. Good thing I play Singed and just troll her.

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-12-01, 04:00 PM

I already even gave the exact quote earlier. Good to see I'm being payed attention to. :smallwink::smalltongue:

My bad. In my defense the thread's moving freakishly fast lately* and I didn't have time to check out the 2-3 unread pages I had.

*You'd think we're talking about ponies or something.

Daverin

2011-12-01, 04:08 PM

My bad. In my defense the thread's moving freakishly fast lately and I didn't have time to check out the 2-3 unread pages I had.

These threads do move FAST, don't they? :smalltongue:

Its no problem, plus it's always funny to see that line. I REALLY hope he is serious. I want there to at least be precedent that, sometimes, a champion with a theme just needs new mechanics.

And for Volibear, apparently Hotshot thinks he is only good for pub stomping. Then again, he has said this about other champs that have turned out devastating. I understand Shushei will be playing him Friday. It should be interesting to get a firmer grasp on his place. I'll admit, if he turns out good, and is not bound for too much turbulence in balance, I'll probably be playing him quite a bit because he has quite a bit going for him at first glance. He kind of seems to have the Olaf or Irelia effect where you mostly build tanky yet still proceed to deal great damage, except he is an armored giant polar bear. Which is cool.

TechnOkami

2011-12-01, 04:16 PM

I'm saving for Swain, anything I should be wary of?

Nothing that I can think o- CAWCAWCAWCAW.

In all seriousness though, could you make your question a little less vague please? I'd like to actually answer your question meaningfully. :smallsmile:

Daverin

2011-12-01, 04:28 PM

The three things I would be most wary of as Swain:

- Landing his skillshot is one of the most important aspects of being Swain. An AoE root is, although not the best CC, still quite nice and gives him some darn important utility. If you find you are not improving on this as you play him, you may want to reconsider him.

- Always be careful of when and where you pop the ult. Not even blue buff can save him from running out of mana if he is not careful. I definitely would suggest some item with good mana, such as Rod of Ages (which Swain just loves in general.)

- This one comes with practice, and may be one of the biggest reasons I have stopped being as good as I used to with him, but perhaps the biggest judgment call you can make as Swain is to know when you're ult will work. Swain, depending on the situation, can seriously just be the single hardest thing to kill in a fight IF he times his entrance correctly. It helps that he is VERY good at picking a target and making them suffer terrible damage with his combo. He honestly plays an AP anticarry very well, but this only works if you can judge correctly whether or not he can tank it. I personally traditonally build him unusually bulky for a mage; honestly, my favorite is when he at least has a Frozen Heart and a Banshee's Veil, along with the RoA. He can run on surprisingly relatively low AP values considering that his actual ratios, when you add all of the multi-part damages up, are very strong.

Overall, Swain is a very unique champion in playstyle. I am sure that he can also play standard AP carry, but you really aren't getting the most out of the thrill of Swain until you can play this bursty AP anticarry who can nearly tank simply because of how bulky and how much he can siphon. He takes getting used to, but is still very much worth it, I am sure.

Oh, and if you want my personal thoughts on Swain in lane (play him in lane as you will, this is just what I have found work,) Swain best lives up to his lore in the lane. Specifically, Swain is not exactly at his best passive or aggressive entirely. Rather, he kind of pokes the target, maybe with an E and AA or two, a couple of times, and keeps them somewhat softened up. That said, what you really do is wait. One mistake on the enemy's part, one well timed root, and a follow up of E,Q, ignite, and AA (and bird if you have it,) means that the enemy is B or dead. He is one of the best lane punishers in the game, in my experience.

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-12-01, 04:29 PM

I'm saving for Swain, anything I should be wary of?

Practice your last hitting when you get him. It could just be me, but I find it rather hard to last hit with him.

Daverin

2011-12-01, 04:33 PM

Oh yeah, and that. His last hitting is atrocious, but extremely vital since its not just farm but regen for him...

toasty

2011-12-01, 04:35 PM

Hard to tell really. Have any of the high ELO people weighed in?

Everyone is saying that Fizz and Volibear are OP and need nerfs. Volibear does seem stupid good: Singed Flip, Mundo Ult AS A PASSIVE, and stupid amounts of damage.

TechnOkami

2011-12-01, 04:56 PM

Oh yeah, and that. His last hitting is atrocious, but extremely vital since its not just farm but regen for him...

Well, never mind about the vagueness -___-

Although, now I've got a swain related question: would it be worth it to put ad runes on him to make his last hitting a little easier?

Daverin

2011-12-01, 05:05 PM

Maybe. Honestly, part of it is purely getting used to his OBNOXIOUS wind-up. One of the worst in the game that I have experienced so far. If anything, some Aspd might help the most.

Volatar

2011-12-01, 05:23 PM

These threads do move FAST, don't they? :smalltongue:

No kidding. I had written out a whole post on how, yes, it is entirely workable to run LoL off a flash drive (as I do it regularly). Then I realized that there were two more pages.

Kzickas

2011-12-01, 05:42 PM

Just brought leBlanc today. Best part until now is seeing warwick use his ultimate to omnomnom your illusion. Also chains and then mimiced chains on someone chasing you is an extremely effective get away tactic

Penguinizer

2011-12-01, 07:02 PM

Well, never mind about the vagueness -___-

Although, now I've got a swain related question: would it be worth it to put ad runes on him to make his last hitting a little easier?

Not really. I run flat AP quints, MPen reds, CDR Blues and MP/5 Yellows with 21/0/9 masteries.

Try to lead your W, then walk towards them while mashing your E+Q so you can immediately get out of range. If you think you can kill them/are sure it's safe, turn on ult and walk at them for a bit.

Last hitting is important. Also, something I should learn: You can't tank the entire enemy team.

Dogmantra

2011-12-01, 07:07 PM

Fun fact about Swaim:
hourglass works during his ultimate

yeah, hourglassface.jpg at them

Lix Lorn

2011-12-01, 07:09 PM

Fun fact about Swaim:
hourglass works during his ultimate

yeah, hourglassface.jpg at them
It does?
Wow I may actually buy one on him.

(Doesn't buy it because she WILL forget it. Same thing happens with Shurelias and Ghostblade)

Joran

2011-12-01, 07:20 PM

It does?
Wow I may actually buy one on him.

(Doesn't buy it because she WILL forget it. Same thing happens with Shurelias and Ghostblade)

Yup. Non-channeled ults will continue. Crowstorm and Morgana's ult also say HI.

Dogmantra

2011-12-01, 07:22 PM

(Doesn't buy it because she WILL forget it. Same thing happens with Shurelias and Ghostblade)

I find the best ways to learn item actives are Hourglass on Kennen/Morgana (it's practically part of their combo if you like to play aggressively) or Quicksilver Sash on anyone - they're not targeted and they're also very reactive, so you don't have to think about when to use them.

TechnOkami

2011-12-01, 07:34 PM

Theoretical question: if a champion cast a spell which dealt 100 magic damage and the recipient champion had 100 magic resist, would it block the entire spell?

Raistlin1040

2011-12-01, 07:35 PM

Not how Armor/MR work. 100 MR blocks 50% of all damage, so such a spell would do 50 damage.

Dogmantra

2011-12-01, 07:40 PM

Not how Armor/MR work. 100 MR blocks 50% of all damage, so such a spell would do 50 damage.

More specifically, the formula for armour/MR into damage reduction is:
damage reduction =
resist
resist+100
Meaning that 100 of a resist will give you 100/200 damage reduction (or 1/2).

Eldariel

2011-12-01, 07:42 PM

More specifically, the formula for armour/MR into damage reduction is:
damage reduction = resist/resist+100
Meaning that 100 of a resist will give you 100/200 damage reduction (or 1/2).

You mean resist/(resist+100) 'cause otherwise you get 100 every time :smalltongue:

Dogmantra

2011-12-01, 07:43 PM

You mean resist/(resist+100) 'cause otherwise you get 100 every time :smalltongue:

Yeah, yeah I do. I was thinking of writing it as a fraction where you wouldn't need the brackets.

(but resist/resist + 100 would be 101 every time, not 100 :smalltongue:)

Eldariel

2011-12-01, 07:49 PM

Yeah, yeah I do. I was thinking of writing it as a fraction where you wouldn't need the brackets.

(but resist/resist + 100 would be 101 every time, not 100 :smalltongue:)

Plain text doesn't exactly lend itself well to fractions :smallwink: Also, fair point. It appears having studied math for forever immune oneself to silly errors does not make :smalltongue:

Reinboom

2011-12-01, 08:57 PM

I find the best ways to learn item actives are Hourglass on Kennen/Morgana (it's practically part of their combo if you like to play aggressively) or Quicksilver Sash on anyone - they're not targeted and they're also very reactive, so you don't have to think about when to use them.

I personally also like Randuin's on tank(y) Shyvana.
R -> Randuin's. It flows so well.

How I got over my use items 'fear'/'forget' was to always keep my fingers hovering over the active item and try to use it ASAP to just get it out of the way, then immediately move down a row for my skills.
Eventually, I was spoiled so (especially by Shurelia's) that it's difficult to not use them.

Maeglin_Dubh

2011-12-01, 10:05 PM

Does anyone know if the jungle hotfix has gone through? I'd like to try out Malphite again, especially since his Q applies Redbuff now, but the first iteration of old jungle was head-achingly bad.

Daverin

2011-12-01, 10:06 PM

I don't think so quite yet. That other hotfix was more to do with some bugs, including Nid, Trist, and Baron/Dragon specifically.

EDIT: And apparently tomorrow is the target deadline currently. Cool beans.

balistafreak

2011-12-01, 10:57 PM

Gotta love games where every single one of your lanes wants ganks 24/7, when the lanes are pushed to the enemy's towers.

Then they complain "omg we lost because you never ganked, and the enemy jungler got so fed because he ganked us all the time".

There's a root problem to this... :smallsigh:

toasty

2011-12-01, 11:02 PM

Yeah, games where your allies feed pretty hard are... annoying. Though honestly, the ones where people claim "its gg" at like 10 minutes in chat are worse IMO.

Last night I was jungling Nocturne and our last picks end up being support+Malz, even though we have a Top solo and an AP. We all rage at this Malz that goes Tele+Clarity for picking Malz and he's like "the meta isn't important, I'm playing for fun." I'm like, "no offense, but this is a ranked game. I don't play for fun, I play to win." Malz feeds in lane and Gragas (our middle) uses his broken English to declare "gg." I tell him its not gg because our top solo is getting fed off of noob akali.

Guess who won? THe team with an unstoppable Trynd, that's who. Gragas still complained all game. (Malz wasn't terrible, he fed in lane, but redeemed himself in teamfights and he used TP pretty well).

Daverin

2011-12-01, 11:10 PM

So, I was just wondering, provided they tweak the numbers right, how well could Poppy farm the jungle now? It would be kind of scary for the game's number 1 burst anticarry to be able to worry less about her poor early game.

EDIT: Okay, so on a completely different note, I like to mess with custom skins in game. One of the ones I am using is the White Knight Poppy... except just the particles, because they are cool. Well, now it causes something interesting, where the fully stacked Paragon of Demacia actually includes the White Knight textures. So now it looks like she literally transforms into the Paragon of Demacia. I am not going to lie... it looks bloody awesome. :smallbiggrin:

DOUBLE EDIT: Okay, THIS (http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/22321/?p=1) is TOO funny! :smallbiggrin:

Volatar

2011-12-02, 12:28 AM

I am just itching to try jungle Lux :smallbiggrin:

Duos

2011-12-02, 12:48 AM

I just had to lane top as Nasus vs. MF. She was stupidly aggressive, abused her range and passive, harassed me constantly, and I couldn't do anything about it except farm under turret for the first fifteen minutes because our rammus couldn't gank (he had to babysit bot lane because graves/sona is a painful lane and they knew exactly what they were doing which made our vayne cry buckets.).

Eventually, I get my philo, my mercs, and my shroud (and a phage, because I wanted her dead if i ever caught her) and start pushing MF back because she had to burn a summoner every time I exhausted her or risk getting instagibbed.

Suddenly, ganked by shaco at MF's turret! What do?

Pop ult, double kill, keep farming. NOBODY interrupt's Nasus' farm. I ended that game with 260-ish farm and 650+ damage on Q.

toasty

2011-12-02, 02:42 AM

I think my favorite LoL games are the ones where your team has massive AoE to win and the enemy doesn't and you abuse this fact.

Its especially effective when you have an Ashe that can land arrows. :D Sona+Morg+Malphite+Ashe

In other news: I've decided that Malphite is a pretty awesome hero, either as a top solo or as a Jungle. His ganks are kinda meh in the jungle (no hard CC until 6) but he farms great, his team fight presence is really strong (especially since the current meta usually means there are 3 Auto-attacking champions) and his top solo is pretty decent.

balistafreak

2011-12-02, 03:00 AM

So, I was just wondering, provided they tweak the numbers right, how well could Poppy farm the jungle now? It would be kind of scary for the game's number 1 burst anticarry to be able to worry less about her poor early game.

Just ran half a dozen games as Jungle Poppy.

Her Q annihilates buff creeps, but she actually struggles with small camps, time-wise. The way I set myself up, I had to focus farm 1-4 without ever getting a chance to gank, due to low health (high enough to do camps comfortably while getting sustain with my Vampiric Scepter start, not high enough to risk going into a lane with and getting bursted down).

You'll also want to transition into taking lane creeps by midgame. Let someone else clean up the scraps in the jungle.

I make a point of including both a Philosopher's Stone and Kage's Lucky Pick early in the build, to be upgraded later into Reverie and DFG. Poppy doesn't farm well, and this is noticeable in the jungle - she really wants those gp/5 items.

toasty

2011-12-02, 03:12 AM

Just ran half a dozen games as Jungle Poppy.

Her Q annihilates buff creeps, but she actually struggles with small camps, time-wise. The way I set myself up, I had to focus farm 1-4 without ever getting a chance to gank, due to low health (high enough to do camps comfortably while getting sustain with my Vampiric Scepter start, not high enough to risk going into a lane with and getting bursted down).

You'll also want to transition into taking lane creeps by midgame. Let someone else clean up the scraps in the jungle.

I make a point of including both a Philosopher's Stone and Kage's Lucky Pick early in the build, to be upgraded later into Reverie and DFG. Poppy doesn't farm well, and this is noticeable in the jungle - she really wants those gp/5 items.

This sounds like the perfect chance to duo with a friend who solos top as someone like Udyr or Malphite. Heck, even Chogath is pretty beast in the jungle.

Math_Mage

2011-12-02, 03:36 AM

8-3 in Ranked with Ashe this season, what is this. I thought she was supposed to have a hard time in the early game.

Time to snowball my way through low Elo with easy-to-play champs. Annie, Ashe, Singed, Udyr, Rammus, Gangplank, and so on. Then I'll hit an Elo where that doesn't work anymore and I'll have to actually learn how to play this game.

Plain text doesn't exactly lend itself well to fractions :smallwink: Also, fair point. It appears having studied math for forever immune oneself to silly errors does not make :smalltongue:

Do tell. :smallredface:

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-02, 03:52 AM

If you're jungling as poppy, W and some attack speed makes her pretty fast. I usually find myself going wriggles then zeal.

Oh, and Dan Dinh and Reginald's aunt has cancer and needs an operation. She's in debt, so can't afford it. Reginald is giving his stream income for the next month to her, and Dan Dinh is doing something similar starting today, though not decided afaik.

HSGG and similar people are gonna do an event for them at some point, but for now, I have both of their streams open and adblock turned off,

shadowwalker64

2011-12-02, 04:40 AM

This sounds like the perfect chance to duo with a friend who solos top as someone like Udyr or Malphite. Heck, even Chogath is pretty beast in the jungle.

I might be wrong when I'm saying this but I think Cho is probably one of the best junglers out there especially with the added risk when ganking. Since now it's not as worth it to just force a flash when ganking, and kills are essential, I'm thinking that Cho can pull this off every time if he lands Q. Q negates most of ghost and scream prevents flash, and by that time the laners jump on them to guarantee the kill.

I'm thinking of trying it out. Could anyone suggest a runepage for cho?

Temotei

2011-12-02, 04:50 AM

I might be wrong when I'm saying this but I think Cho is probably one of the best junglers out there especially with the added risk when ganking. Since now it's not as worth it to just force a flash when ganking, and kills are essential, I'm thinking that Cho can pull this off every time if he lands Q. Q negates most of ghost and scream prevents flash, and by that time the laners jump on them to guarantee the kill.

I'm thinking of trying it out. Could anyone suggest a runepage for cho?

I'm not sure (as I'm the last person to ask about runes), but I think attack speed marks and armor seals would work. Attack speed marks would make his jungling much faster because of E and would make his ganks a little tougher--especially with red buff.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-02, 04:52 AM

Cho is such a durable jungler that literally any runepage works.

Personally, I use Atkspd reds, AP quints, armor seals, MR glyphs, and start with vorpal spikes. I'm still experimenting with masteries this patch, you can do anything. 9-21-0, 21-9-0, 0-21-9, 21-0-9.

Raistlin1040

2011-12-02, 04:53 AM

It's probably unoptimized, but with the jungle nerfs, Cho has an even easier time in the jungle than before. His clear time is good and his sustain, even before the jungle nerfs, is excellent. I use

AS Reds
Flat Armor Yellows
Choice Blues (When I jungle Cho, I go tank, so I use scaling MR)
Choice Quints (I use 2 MS, 1 flat HP).

Start cloth armor and pots, start with E, do a standard Blue start clear. Skilling can be EQEW or EQQW. Build generally goes something like Frozen Heart, Swiftness Boots, Force of Nature, Wit's End and then whatever you want. Some mixture of GA/QSS/Atma's is generally where I go.

If you need a tank but don't have a spot for him/don't want to jungle Amumu or Rammus or someone, jungle Cho'Gath. If you're going to go AP instead, it's better to lane Cho'Gath because he doesn't need to put points in Spikes early on and you can do a better start, either boots, Doran's Ring, or Mana Crystal towards a RoA.

ex cathedra

2011-12-02, 05:01 AM

Wolves->Blue or, better yet, Wraiths->Blue->Wolves would probably give you better results.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-02, 05:36 AM

Actually, in the new jungle, the best route to 4 is wolves blue wraiths wolves red minis.

Cho does this well and fairly speedily. His AoE is spectacularly good at clearing small camps.

Math_Mage

2011-12-02, 06:06 AM

So, I'm looking forward to trying out Heimer in a poke comp if it ever happens...but Heimer with Vayne, Alistar, Garen, and Udyr is, how you say, not so good.

Also, people bait their teammates into dying and then blame their teammates for not being there sooner. More news at 11. If I were 3/0/6 10 minutes in as any other champion role, carrying would be a cinch. As a support Alistar? I can CC things if I'm there, but it doesn't make team less inclined to fight 3v5.

ex cathedra

2011-12-02, 06:20 AM

Actually, in the new jungle, the best route to 4 is wolves blue wraiths wolves red minis.

Cho does this well and fairly speedily. His AoE is spectacularly good at clearing small camps.

That isn't true for every champion. :smallconfused: Maokai, for example, does Wraiths-Blue-Wolves-Wraiths-Red-Minis hits level 4 in 3:22, a time that actually approach the old jungle.

Math_Mage

2011-12-02, 06:24 AM

I just saw something dumb.

Shaco. 3 boxes at red. Go somewhere else. Acquire free red buff.

ex cathedra

2011-12-02, 06:43 AM

I just saw something dumb.

Shaco. 3 boxes at red. Go somewhere else. Acquire free red buff.

This has spawned a popular route which involves taking one XP quint, boxing red four times, boxing blue, then clearing wolves and blue. You clear at level 3 by 2:18 and laners are still level one. You have QWE and double buff. Enjoy your ganks.

sucatraps

2011-12-02, 07:26 AM

~Nasus story~

Yeah, Nasus is always fun once you hit that tipping point, where you can start just beating the **** out of the enemy with Wither and Q and suddenly, all they can do is farm under the turret (and often, not even that).

Winthur

2011-12-02, 10:28 AM

I might be wrong when I'm saying this but I think Cho is probably one of the best junglers out there especially with the added risk when ganking.
Crap transition to mid game make him not as awesome as Stonewall wants to convince us he is. His ganks are strong but hard to pull off especially if the enemy wards whatsoever (hard to close the gap in this case) though they're doable otherwise. The point is you are going to be fairly crap for such a level and gold-dependent tank under the new jungle. If you just want someone to clear the jungle competently and think you can catch up to a lane Cho in the meantime (in essence you really want a teamcomp with Cho but there isn't a lane for him) then he's good, otherwise I don't really like the playstyle and just rather put him into lane.

I'm thinking of trying it out. Could anyone suggest a runepage for cho?
In spite of all that I've written above I have just the idea:
Attack Speed reds
Armor yellows (Dodge works too)
Magic Resistance per level blues (since blues are always choice you might as well put something like CDR here; MR/lvl just make you even tankier)
Ability Power/Movement Speed/Attack Speed/Gold/XP/Dogmantra aphrodisiac quintessences (the quints don't matter much either so do as you please, just throwing some decent choices around)

The attack speed is nice because Cho scales well with it (he even has a decent base attack speed, his Vorpal Spikes give good close combat damage and if you get Wit's End then you amplify all those useful aspects), the armor isn't necessary for jungling but sure makes it safer and makes more starts viable), magic resistance per level makes up for your inferior late game and all the mentioned quints have some merits (AP is some bonus damage on all skills, Movement Speed is obvious, Attack Speed for even faster jungle, and so on).

0/21/9 on masteries is viable as well as 9/21/0 but Cho doesn't really need the 9 points in offense for fast clears unless you really want the 10% Magic Penetration for mid-late game so he's one of the rare cases where I'd bother about 9 points in utility.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-02, 10:43 AM

lord_khaine

2011-12-02, 10:51 AM

That isn't true for every champion. Maokai, for example, does Wraiths-Blue-Wolves-Wraiths-Red-Minis hits level 4 in 3:22, a time that actually approach the old jungle.

Please give advice on how to best accomplish this?

Maokia is a tree, and clearly belongs out in the jungle.

Winthur

2011-12-02, 10:55 AM

The thing with Cho is that he's an EXCEPTIONAL counterjungler. His ganks are decent, his transition isn't horrible, because he has a huge health steroid with his ult's passive, so he doesn't need as many defensive items as e.g. amumu.

Counterjungling kinda got butchered in the patch and it's only really good for stealing buffs which Cho does very well admittedly. As for transition he has a bunch of CC on medium-high cooldowns and while he has health steroids he still needs proper items to stay alive as a tank and it usually is tough to do because he likes lots of expensive items, lots of farm and lots of levels.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1317/shusheigragas.jpg

Also he's dressed as Santa right now.

tribble

2011-12-02, 11:15 AM

The thing with Cho is that he's an EXCEPTIONAL counterjungler. His ganks are decent, his transition isn't horrible, because he has a huge health steroid with his ult's passive, so he doesn't need as many defensive items as e.g. amumu.

But he can clear small camps in seconds at will, he can disengage and engage absurdly well, and once he hits 6, he *will* take your buffs if you don't have at least 1 teammate there the whole time.

EDIT: This was obviously better pre-change to jungle, and will be better after the fixes come through.

And sometimes he'll take your buffs anyway. I once was waddling around as Cho and decided I wanted my teams' blue. I ambled on down to blue to find tryndamere and Olaf stealing it. I waited for a couple of seconds, then stepped out of the bush and OMNOMNOMNOMNOM. I then killed them both, because I was at full health and they were both pretty low. Olaf said something to the effect of "That's cold, man".

9mm

2011-12-02, 11:25 AM

Counterjungling kinda got butchered in the patch and it's only really good for stealing buffs which Cho does very well admittedly. As for transition he has a bunch of CC on medium-high cooldowns and while he has health steroids he still needs proper items to stay alive as a tank and it usually is tough to do because he likes lots of expensive items, lots of farm and lots of levels.

one, by ensuring that one monster in every camp is worth more counter jungling is actually very efficient and will be deadly to a jungler with invasion weakness if done properly (leave creeps up and invade constantly). Two, if you are having a tough transition as cho, your building him wrong. He has one of the strongest transitions in the game.

Duos

2011-12-02, 11:33 AM

Yeah, champs who are good at stealing buffs and objectives are really fun to play. Cho is great at that- flashing into smite/feast baron for the steal is so much fun.

I had a jungle tryndamere game where the enemy team killed bot in a well executed gank (DAAAARKNESSSSSSSS) and then went to do dragon. They didn't pull dragon out of his cove, so I flashed over the wall, stole it with smite, then spun back over the wall. I was only there for about a second and a half.

Shortly afterwards, I spun through the wall at their blue and crit the golem, stealing it from their malz. He told me he was just softening it up for me.:smallbiggrin:

Qwertystop

2011-12-02, 11:37 AM

This has spawned a popular route which involves taking one XP quint, boxing red four times, boxing blue, then clearing wolves and blue. You clear at level 3 by 2:18 and laners are still level one. You have QWE and double buff. Enjoy your ganks.

Wow...

On another note, I tried Karma following Dogmantra's guide. I lost 3 games out of 3. Not sure how much of that was lack of skill, how much was the guide, and how much was teammates.

Is there any champ who has an easy early game and takes skill for late game? I'm not very good early on, I've found, except for when I sometimes get an incredibly good early kill (in which case I'm awesome all game).

Dogmantra

2011-12-02, 12:02 PM

On another note, I tried Karma following Dogmantra's guide. I lost 3 games out of 3. Not sure how much of that was lack of skill, how much was the guide, and how much was teammates.

I think a little bit was the guide. I mean, I focused a lot on itemisation, skilling and teamfights, but nothing on laning, which is probably her most important time.

Winthur

2011-12-02, 12:33 PM

Two, if you are having a tough transition as cho, your building him wrong. He has one of the strongest transitions in the game.
Not from the jungle. The free health from stacks doesn't get that strong until levels 11 and 16, the amount of defensive stats you need to be an efficient teamfighter is hard to cover from jungle farm alone - and you are supposed to be contesting dragons and deciding skirmishes. Good transition junglers are like Amumu or Nunu who can go 0/0/0 until mid game and even get denied and they still provide their teams with a ton of utility. Especially since a lot of the time all you need to do with the above is get there and press R while Cho'Gath relies on constantly staying in, CCing everybody and being annoying. And if you wanted someone with free staying power along with lane domination from the jungle you might as well have jungled Blitzcrank or Alistar.

Cho'Gath needs more gold than others and that's harder to get with new jungle, so he's bound to be lackluster from just jungle farm and this is one of the reasons his lane is better (not that jungle Cho isn't viable at all, it just has its issues - they're not crippling but they are also preventing him from truly standing out)

Merellis

2011-12-02, 12:38 PM

:smallamused:
Yeah, champs who are good at stealing buffs and objectives are really fun to play. Cho is great at that- flashing into smite/feast baron for the steal is so much fun.

I had a jungle tryndamere game where the enemy team killed bot in a well executed gank (DAAAARKNESSSSSSSS) and then went to do dragon. They didn't pull dragon out of his cove, so I flashed over the wall, stole it with smite, then spun back over the wall. I was only there for about a second and a half.

Shortly afterwards, I spun through the wall at their blue and crit the golem, stealing it from their malz. He told me he was just softening it up for me.:smallbiggrin:

Had a fun one as Soraka where Gragas was trying to steal the blue buff in our jungle. He was on low health, and so was blue, so I dive in, silenced him and started spamming Q for all I was worth, didn't get the kill, but the Blue buff let us push through to take Dragon and bot tower.

Lost that game, but it was funny seeing someone run from a solo Soraka.

Also, anyone ever have a moment where you just want to yell at the enemy team to build something better? Me as Trist and another teammate as Tryn, Auto-Attack goodness, and no Thorns on anyone.

Managed to do a fun sweep of killing Talon at bot, ripping Dragon to shreds, then killing the rest of the enemy team at Mid before diving Baron, taking him, then pushing Top all the way to the Inhib before being pushed back.

And all the while, the Heimer on the enemy team calling us noobs and going on about how he won mid against me. :smallamused:

tribble

2011-12-02, 12:39 PM

Lane Cho is one of the few champions that can reliably 2v1 and come out smiling. I die a little inside any time I see a cho taking clarity and spamming rupture.

9mm

2011-12-02, 12:50 PM

Not from the jungle. The free health from stacks doesn't get that strong until levels 11 and 16, the amount of defensive stats you need to be an efficient teamfighter is hard to cover from jungle farm alone - and you are supposed to be contesting dragons and deciding skirmishes. Good transition junglers are like Amumu or Nunu who can go 0/0/0 until mid game and even get denied and they still provide their teams with a ton of utility. Especially since a lot of the time all you need to do with the above is get there and press R while Cho'Gath relies on constantly staying in, CCing everybody and being annoying. And if you wanted someone with free staying power along with lane domination from the jungle you might as well have jungled Blitzcrank or Alistar.

Cho'Gath needs more gold than others and that's harder to get with new jungle, so he's bound to be lackluster from just jungle farm and this is one of the reasons his lane is better (not that jungle Cho isn't viable at all, it just has its issues - they're not crippling but they are also preventing him from truly standing out)

2 dorans rings, 1 gold per 10 (or 1 doran + 2 gp/10) plus a chain vest and negation cloak is easily attainable by 20 minutes where dragon fights are actually organized and "not hey we just successively killed their carry/jungler, let's dragon" freebies. That's a minimum, doing well can let you grab a wit's end over a negation or upgrade the chain vest into a glacial. If your trying to rush a RoA, you'll fail. Jungling changes the build and you don't at your peril. Cho is one of the top 5 junglers now; (I personally have him at # 3)

Winthur

2011-12-02, 12:58 PM

2 dorans rings, 1 gold per 10 (or 1 doran + 2 gp/10) plus a chain vest and negation cloak is easily attainable by 20 minutes where dragon fights are actually organized and "not hey we just successively killed their carry/jungler, let's dragon" freebies. That's a minimum, doing well can let you grab a wit's end over a negation or upgrade the chain vest into a glacial.
Then you have a fairly unreliable CC bot (Cho'Gath is only as good as his player's skill with ruptures) with long cooldowns and a bit of a damage soak. And true damage burst, admittedly, but he still doesn't have a good mid-game from the jungle. He's prone to getting poked and bursted down; if he does, he loses stacks and it forces him to play catch up.

If your trying to rush a RoA, you'll fail.Jungling changes the build and you don't at your peril.
Implying I ever build RoA on Cho'Gath, even on a lane Cho'Gath.

Cho is one of the top 5 junglers now; (I personally have him at # 3)
I don't see him ever considered on any scrims or tournaments. Maybe on EU.

sucatraps

2011-12-02, 01:02 PM

237 farm in a 25:35 game. Getting better.

balistafreak

2011-12-02, 01:08 PM

Mc. Lovin'

2011-12-02, 01:27 PM

Is anyone getting incredibly bad lag in EUWest?

toasty

2011-12-02, 02:00 PM

Is anyone getting incredibly bad lag in EUWest?

EUWest has been messed up for days now. Wickd and AL mTw have had to cancel or postpone scrims because of lag.

Sohala

2011-12-02, 05:42 PM

Does CDR affect passives?

Dogmantra

2011-12-02, 05:51 PM

Does CDR affect passives?

Not as far as I know, nor does it affect Summoners or item actives.

littlebottom

2011-12-02, 06:04 PM

i tried a custom 1v1 to practice jungling for the first time, i think i sort of got the gist of it, but its very different in a real game, im not sure if i would keep up levels wise... only one way to find out i guess.

TechnOkami

2011-12-02, 06:24 PM

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/SionReviveBearMid.pngSion + Revive Bear Mid

NEW META

sucatraps

2011-12-02, 06:29 PM

toasty

2011-12-02, 06:37 PM

You know, it always kinda bugged me that champion innates are called passives. I mean, all sorts of dudes have passives on QWER skills, but the innate is something altogether different. Innates just also happen to be passives.

This may be on account of the fact that DOTA had passive abilities that were just that. For instance, Skeleton king had 3 abilities that only activated passively. (SK #1 noob hero)

Dogmantra

2011-12-02, 07:26 PM

You know, it always kinda bugged me that champion innates are called passives. I mean, all sorts of dudes have passives on QWER skills, but the innate is something altogether different. Innates just also happen to be passives.
I think it's passive on the part of the player, not the ability. The player has to pick their skills, which is an active thing, but they don't have to take any action to have the passive.

Alternatively, it's just a catchy name they picked for it. Why are ultimates not the last skill you level or use, why does ability power not make every ability more powerful, and most importantly why aren't they called creeps despite being really creepy?

This may be on account of the fact that DOTA had passive abilities that were just that. For instance, Skeleton king had 3 abilities that only activated passively. (SK #1 noob hero)
heh, I think I lied about him being one of my most played to try and get a DotA 2 beta key.

sucatraps

2011-12-02, 07:55 PM

Skeleton King has passive abilities, but you still need to level them and you don't just start with one.

And the abilities are known as innates, just like Blue is actually Ancient Golem and Red is Lizard Elder. It's just that nobody (even most of Riot) calls them innates.

EDIT: And ultimates are the last skill available to pick. That is the ultimate nature of them. Bam.

Dogmantra

2011-12-02, 08:10 PM

EDIT: And ultimates are the last skill available to pick. That is the ultimate nature of them. Bam.

But they don't have to be the last skill you pick, and they're certainly not the last skill you get to level. :smallwink:

Just had a ranked solo queue game as Janna, I had 9.9k at the end, Tristana had 9.8k. I had 8 kills and 10 assists.

No deaths.

Man I love Janna.

dgnslyr

2011-12-02, 08:57 PM

Qwertystop

2011-12-02, 09:00 PM

I think a little bit was the guide. I mean, I focused a lot on itemisation, skilling and teamfights, but nothing on laning, which is probably her most important time.

Ah. How do you lane Karma?

I was just trying to get as much farm as possible, and possibly overprioritizing it (a bit too unsafe).

Shadowleaf

2011-12-02, 09:02 PM

I just played a Summoner's Rift where the enemy team had 3 roamers. They started out ganking me (jungling Amumu) at blue, then proceeded to push mid, damage the tower, go bot, gank our Graves/Swain, and then go jungle. They went 6-0 in the first 5 minutes or so.

Obviously, when the team started listening, we ended up crushing them something like 50-30 with 5 times as many assists as them. In the end, their Alistar (one of the roamers) had 26 creep kills, 6 kills and 9 assists to my 220+ creep score, 7 kills and 26 assists. :smallbiggrin:

Also throwing in my hatred towards the new jungle. I could basicly free farm both their and our jungle, and I was still only ~0.5 level above botlane, even as APmumu. :smallconfused:

Dogmantra

2011-12-02, 09:32 PM

Ah. How do you lane Karma?

I was just trying to get as much farm as possible, and possibly overprioritizing it (a bit too unsafe).

It's sort of helpful to imagine laning as a very long drawn out teamfight, you still want to do your circley tactics, but in a sort of cone shape so you stay safe. Less a circle and more of a back and forth. You're much shorter range than most mids and a lot of bots, so if you're solo try to get top lane so you're more likely to face a melee. Basically, you want to keep them at arm's length. If you've ever played Singed against kinda poor players you'll probably know what I mean when I say there's this area in the middle of his poison trail where people will keep chasing him, and sometimes you need to slow down to stop from getting too far ahead, but then sometimes you'll need to speed up to stop them catching you. It's that sort of tactic that applies to Karma's laning, you want to keep them far away that they don't think they can attack you, but close enough to throw your fans on them. Boots start is pretty essential in that sort of solo lane (where you can get away with Doran's Ring or a Regrowth Pendant in a duo), using your laser beam to run up, fan, then run away. One issue though, is that because of your short range you have to stand as far away as you can if you're not looking for a kill. If they move to one side of the minions, you move to the other. It depends on champion matchups, but if you know, say, Warwick's effective range, you can stay out of it and farm safely while also getting very close to him. If you imagine a solo lane to be like a sort of lever, with the minions as the fulcrum, with you and your lane opponent being at each end, so you move one way when the enemy moves the other, that's sort of what I'm talking about. In the lane against characters that can jump on you, like Xin or Irelia, try saving Mantras to shield yourself with when they do so, then as they try to disengage, drop a laser beam on them, throw Fans (possibly with Mantra if you need the health) and just run after autoattacking - they won't have their dash back up yet. Another good tactic to extend your zoning and safety in a solo is to use Mantra and then shield minions, it denies last hits if you time it right, and also harrasses relatively well.

She plays a little differently in duo lanes, really preferring a nice beefy melee with a gap closer like Xin to a carry, similar tactics, except you can also drop Mantras on shields for your ally when they jump in, and help them disengage, you become more of a traditional support, but you also pack a punch. I prefer beefier melee to lane with, not only because of the diving in aspect, but also because, going back to my lever example from earlier, you can replace the minions with your lane partner and you suddenly gain a lot more control over your own positioning in the lane, whereas ranged carries will also want to stay back, and the typical carry/support dynamic invilves the support being further ahead, taking the hits and providing zoning. As Karma, you don't have amazing zoning of your own, but you amplify any ally's zoning power by rather a lot.

Finally, solo vs a ranged is the hardest thing Karma can do, and I'd try to avoid it if at all possible (in picking team comp, I know it requires quite a bit of communication, if you can pick an alternative solo who's okay with duoing but can also solo against long ranged characters and then send either Karma or them top depending on who the enemy sends top, that's really helpful). You want to do similar to soloing vs melee, but the issue is that when you approach arm's length, you are in danger, and your kit can punish people for engaging you up close really well, but not so much people just attacking you from a range. So either you want to be mega passive and stay out of their range at all times, or try to stick close to your opponent, constantly threatening them with fans to the face. If you can get some early sustain via a quick Philo Stone and maybe a Spirit Visage or a Revolver in these lanes, that can be incredibly helpful. Like I said though, they're hard to handle well and I'd try to just avoid them.

(actually, all this thinking about Karma has made me realise just how good her design is, right up there with some of Ezreal's better moments, like Tree and, well, Ezreal

EDITY EDIT: okie doke apparently Tree wasn't one of Ezreal's)

(doubly also reading over this post to make sure I haven't said anything dumb, I keep reading "Mantra" as if Lix is talking to me :O)

Mutant Bunny

2011-12-02, 09:43 PM

So now we know why they changed Warwick's running animation... so that they can release a new skin with movement that looks less ridiculous and market it as such (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-species-discovered-valoran) :smallbiggrin:

Istari

2011-12-02, 09:43 PM

Man I just tried out HoN after being prompted by a friend and man did I hate it.
First off, apparently the entire matchmaking system is the equivalent of ranked so noobs (me) are matched up with average experienced players. Then, the shopping interface is really clunky compared to LoL's really smooth one. And its really hard to figure out what the enemies can do, I got killed a bunch of times without really realizing what happened. So yeah, not trying that again.

TechnOkami

2011-12-02, 09:48 PM

Qwertystop

2011-12-02, 10:06 PM

lots of advice

Well, I just played a game with Karma, following a different AP Karma (http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=7791) guide.

Here's the end scores:
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6366/95659309.png

I started with a Doran's Ring, sold it for the last bit of the RoA. Felt like I was doing pretty well, but the entire enemy team kept ganging up on me (which was when I switched from the "Standard" build in the guide to the tankier one)(I only had RoA and Mercs at that point).

Do you think I would have done fairly well if it wasn't for the feeding WW (and MF early on)?

Copacetic

2011-12-02, 11:45 PM

Mutant Bunny

2011-12-03, 12:12 AM

So, new Sivir. I don't she's good enough to advance beyond a rather average AD carry, unless (and this is important) Annie is involved. Sivir wrecks Annie. Sivir's Q wins the poke war in the range department, and her E just makes it completely one-sided. Her W feels a little clunky though, as it's cool down is too short to fire and forget, and it's not a constant effect.

We already know that Annie is a weak laner against anyone with enough range to kite her :smalltongue:

I'm more interested to see how she does vs Xerath, Brand, etc... or Cait. I'd like to see what she can do against Cait.

tribble

2011-12-03, 12:40 AM

ARGRAHGRABRAGAFALFAFDASGARA WHY IS IT SO HARD TO FIND COMPETENT PEOPLE IN NORMAL DRAFT SOLOQUEUE?

There's the Twitch who buys two recurve bows and insists he's not stacking them, the Yi who never ganks, the Soraka who never said a word, and a relentless enemy team.

In other words, will you guys please please PLEASE add me as a buddy on League of Legends because soloqueue is like rolling a dice with fun on one side and painful, agonizing defeat on the rest. I'm GANKERLagann on League.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/336/3/8/oh_my_gah_by_hirokada-d343x06.jpg
I already friended you, I'm Smallbluedot. It really is a small world.

That twitch may have bought two by accident and not noticed, a couple of times I've bought two sets of boots. I never notice it until someone points it out and thinks I'm trolling.:smallsigh:

Makensha

2011-12-03, 12:45 AM

My ideas for a Katarina rework.

Katarina Rework

The idea is to make her less snowball reliant, more consistent damage, better at farming, less ult reliant, and easier to adjust individual numbers with (removal of AD ratios and base damage on Killer Instincts).

Voracity: Deals 150% damage from all abilities and attacks to minions and monsters.

Bouncing Blades
-Base damage changed to 40/85/130/175/220
-AD ratio removed
-AP ratio increased to .55
-Cooldown reduced to 9/8/7/6/5

Killer Instincts
-Passive removed
-Shunpo damage reduction increased to 20/24/28/32/36
-Cooldown reduced to 20/17/14/11/8

Shunpo
-Base damage increased to 80/125/170/215/260
-AP ratio increased to .8
-Cooldown reduced to 8/7/6/5/4

Death Lotus
-Base damage increased to 60/80/100
-Now shoots 24 daggers over 2 seconds. Maximum of 8 daggers per target.
-AD ratio removed
-Reduced cooldown to 40 seconds at all ranks.

Base Stats
-Increased Health to 400
-Increased Health Regen to 7

Stats Per Level
-Increased Health to 85
-Increased Health Regen to .6

Numbers are more to show the direction I have in mind then being precise numbers.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Showers of unending praise?

Volatar

2011-12-03, 01:27 AM

ARGRAHGRABRAGAFALFAFDASGARA WHY IS IT SO HARD TO FIND COMPETENT PEOPLE IN NORMAL DRAFT SOLOQUEUE?

There's the Twitch who buys two recurve bows and insists he's not stacking them, the Yi who never ganks, the Soraka who never said a word, and a relentless enemy team.

In other words, will you guys please please PLEASE add me as a buddy on League of Legends because soloqueue is like rolling a dice with fun on one side and painful, agonizing defeat on the rest. I'm GANKERLagann on League.

Be proactive. Add us, don't wait for us to add you. Hop on Mumble. We are more than happy to have another player to bring into our games.

Moonshadow

2011-12-03, 02:00 AM

Djinn_in_Tonic

2011-12-03, 02:01 AM

My ideas for a Katarina rework.

Numbers are more to show the direction I have in mind then being precise numbers.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Showers of unending praise?

With the new numbers, cooldowns, and ratios you suggest, get Blue and Lichbane. Proceed to win game completely.

Further, the new passive takes away a really fun part of Katarina in exchange for a decidedly "meh" passive. I can't approve of that change.

Overall, I can't call it a good rework. Moonshadow has it correct: you've drastically increased her stomping potential, and not really resolved the issues she actually has, while simultaneously removing a core part of what, in my mind, makes Katarina, well...Katarina.

tribble

2011-12-03, 02:09 AM

You made her ult only channel for two seconds? Why?

Makensha

2011-12-03, 02:24 AM

Sure... if you want her to become most overused noob stomper ever. I'd just stack CDR and use Death Lotus ever 24 seconds to melt your face in.

Not sure where you are coming from. CDR costs money, and Death Lotus doesn't do as much damage (while still being rather interrupted fairly easy). Is the CDR buff really better than the loss of the old passive? And Death Lotus is given a shorter CD because it allows for her to be useful in every team fight, not just every 60 seconds.

With the new numbers, cooldowns, and ratios you suggest, get Blue and Lichbane. Proceed to win game completely.

Annie. Lux. Brand. Get Blue, Lichbane, and how is Kat so much better? Especially with the danger she puts herself in (Remember that her passive means when she snowballs she gains huge amounts of health from spell vamp.

Further, the new passive takes away a really fun part of Katarina in exchange for a decidedly "meh" passive. I can't approve of that change.
Katarina is at her core broken. Voracity simply can not be allowed to exist. With it, she'll be stuck with either being trash or getting pentakills. The idea is to bring her closer to the center of those two extremes.

Overall, I can't call it a good rework. Moonshadow has it correct: you've drastically increased her stomping potential, and not really resolved the issues she actually has, while simultaneously removing a core part of what, in my mind, makes Katarina, well...Katarina.

This is what frustrates me. Numbers can be adjusted. Inherent character flaws must be changed. Her weaknesses and strengths are unhealthy.

The numbers are to give an idea of what I'm thinking about. Slight increase to Shunpo, strong increase to BB, etc. The changes are mainly to deal with her core issues.

Core Issues:
-Reliant on ult, which can be easily stopped.
-Snowballs incredibly hard.
-Has low damage output if she does not snowball.
-Poor at farming.

Have I not addressed those?

I want Kat to be better. But she never will if her core flaws are not dealt with.

You made her ult only channel for two seconds? Why?
A) She'll likely be stopped before the full duration anyway.
B) She becomes less reliant on her ult.
C) That power can be adjusted to other abilities that don't require being channeled. In this case, Bouncing Blade. This also increases her farming prowess.

Moonshadow

2011-12-03, 06:09 AM

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-12-03, 07:33 AM

Kat fix? Mine would go like so:

First is killing the AD ratios and adjusting AP ratios. Give her W some AP scaling. Not much - nothing like Akali gets, just enough that when she kicks you in the nuts you actually feel it. You can adjust everything else's scaling to account for it easily enough.

Then I'd rework her ult into onto a sort of hybrid lovechild of Kennen's and Wukong's ults: Largish area damage "aura" that disables her other skills. Then tune down the damage to something more reasonable (hint: 800+2.50*AP is not it). Retune Q/E as needed.

Lastly, make it able to target minions (but prefer champions). It has a pretty short CD anyway, may as well make useful for farming big waves like Lux or Blitz can do with theirs.

Dogmantra

2011-12-03, 09:11 AM

Kat rework:

Bouncing blades has long enough range (at least at later levels/with Killer Instincts) to bounce from melee minions to ranged ones.

Killer Instincts no longer gives damage reduction to Shunpo, instead it gives her 1-2 spellshields depending on the level.

BAM.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-03, 09:22 AM

She just needs a tad more base damage on her other skills, and less scaling on the ulti. She's too much of a one-skill-wonder atm, her ulti is way too much of her damage output, and scales so much that her damage output if she doesn't get the ulti off has to be weaker by design.

Eurus

2011-12-03, 09:22 AM

I haven't seen Kat much since the gunblade nerf, for obvious reasons. Is she still such a pubstomper? Also, a double spell-shield would be awesome.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-03, 10:23 AM

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-12-03, 10:46 AM

So, any suggestions for learning to last hit better in non-ranked games? Whenever I want to play in a ranged AD with one of my level 20ish buddies, I get stuck in a lane with someone that relentlessly autoattacks the minions. Should I just suck it up and get used to having 40 CS by minute 20, or is there a trick to dealing with people that don't respond to polite requests to only last hit and/or competing for last hits?

These people tend to attack in a predictable pattern at regular intervals... so they're basically no different from any other minion. :smalltongue:
In other words, learn the timing of their attacks, how much damage they do, and then weave yours in to get the CS.

If you have a buddy who's also interested in better last-hitting you can set up a custom game and try to out-CS the other in peace. I suggest these two modes:
-Each on a different lane: First to reach 150 CS wins.
-Same lane: Now you go against each other. Highest CS at 15 minutes wins.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-03, 11:07 AM

These people tend to attack in a predictable pattern at regular intervals... so they're basically no different from any other minion. :smalltongue:
In other words, learn the timing of their attacks, how much damage they do, and then weave yours in to get the CS.

If you have a buddy who's also interested in better last-hitting you can set up a custom game and try to out-CS the other in peace. I suggest these two modes:
-Each on a different lane: First to reach 150 CS wins.
-Same lane: Now you go against each other. Highest CS at 15 minutes wins.

That's what I thought. It get's difficult when laning with a Shyvanna or other character with an AoE, but I guess I'll just have to get better. But every time a creep dies and nobody on my team gets the gold, it makes me sad. :smallfrown:

On the subject of the custom game, does it matter what types of characters are in use? I have a friend that would probably do this with me, but he loves his mages and I prefer ranged ADs, and I'm worried about bad match-ups ruining the practice. Would any of the following characters easily counter/be countered by Ryze, Xerath, or Zilean (the three characters he plays well):

Ezrael
Ashe
Urgot
Tristana
Vayne (not sure I'll bother with her if we both go mid)

EDIT: Forgot that my friend played Zilean.

tribble

2011-12-03, 12:34 PM

That right thar is why I play solo top. Jungling might have more impact and yadda yadda, but I loathe and despise people who go solo top and then QQ if I gank someone else's lane before theirs. If you don't think you can handle a 2v1 lane you might wanna rethink going solo top, d00d!

Makensha

2011-12-03, 12:41 PM

CDR and AP go together hand in hand. Bearing in mind that the mana regen is useless, you could just grab Morellos, Ionians, and there's your 40% CDR. Wouldn't take you more than 15-20 minutes to get that, even less on the Crystal Scar.

Or, like Djinn said, ignore Morellos, get blue, proceed to roll hard.
Yes, literally every single character in the game can do that. I don't see what your point is. Yes, she has low cooldowns. She also can't snowball with her passive. Between her BB and Shunpo, she has 1.35 AP burst and 480 base damage. Is that really so awful to have up every 2.4/3.2 seconds?

I mean, her ult would throw 24 daggers over 2 seconds, right? Which means 12 daggers in 1 second. Which means, 1v1, it takes you 1 second to throw all 8 daggers that can hit a single champ. Which means you have less than a second to use hard CC to stop her, which unless you're either extremely twitchy, or someone like Xin, ain't gonna happen.
24 daggers in 2 esconds means 4 daggers per person per second. I literally just took .5 seconds off the ult.

Way I see it... with Lichbane, you shunpo over, hit them once, activate Killer Instincts and throw a blade at them, then ult. Unless they've stacked a crapton of MR, they'll be dead,

And every can buy Lichbane. Not really a valid point. Lets do a hypothetical though. Lets say Kat has 400 AP. This is a team fight.

She Killer Instinct Shupos because she knows the damage reduction will serve her better than the full damage on BB. 580 damage.
She BBs her target. 420 damage to her target.
Lichbane. Around 520 damage.
Activates Death Lotus. 1600 damage.
She does a total of 3120 gross damage.

Now lets compare old Kat.
Shunpo. 564 damage.
BB. 364 damage.
Lichbane. 544 damage.
Death Lotus. 1840 damage.
She does a total of 3312 gross damage.

Her burst went down slightly. And she can't snowball anymore.

or nearly so, and they'll be pretty much unable to escape because you'll be able to teleport to them every 4 seconds (3 with max CDR) while damaging them.
Every 2.4 seconds actually. But you can currently bring this number to 3.6 with CDR. Is that really so much easier to escape from? Remember Kassadin's teleport is a 4 second cooldown.

Kat fix? Mine would go like so:
She still snowballs hard.

Kat rework:
Those are buffs without fixing her core problems.

She just needs a tad more base damage on her other skills, and less scaling on the ulti. She's too much of a one-skill-wonder atm, her ulti is way too much of her damage output, and scales so much that her damage output if she doesn't get the ulti off has to be weaker by design.
She still snowballs hard.

Until her snowballing is dealt with, she can never receive buffs.

tribble

2011-12-03, 12:53 PM

Kat's in a good place right now, She has her role and she does it very well. It so happens that that role is pubstomper. I don't see why stealth characters like twitch and eve should be the only characters who are intentionally unviable in tourney play.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-03, 01:01 PM

Why does snowballing hard mean she can never recieve changes? There's a lot of viable champions that rely on snowballing. Akali, Tryndamere, Leblanc.... And moving damage from the ulti to her other skills, while reducing scaling actually LOWERS her ability to snowball.

Reinboom

2011-12-03, 01:06 PM

Two notes on the Kat rework notes by Makensha:
"Just" 0.5 seconds is MASSIVE in LoL.

Writing everything off as just 'what can remove the snowball' is silly. When a character has issues, rarely is it a single solid core problem. If it was, we could do something like:
"Katarina's AP ratios have been halved. The damage of all her skills at later levels has been increased to compensate."
And voila, the snowball effect has been massively cut down.
...at the cost of destroying something that hundreds of thousands of players like about her, making it so that she runs a risk of not being able to end games, has no real late game, still doesn't address the issue that a focused displacer (alistar, rammus, blitzcrank..) wrecks her (which generally causes her to be a worthless first through fourth pick, and by fifth someone else has taken her role), and it doesn't address that snowballing can be a good thing when used in moderation.

This rework also only seems to be attempting to address Katarina in team fights while neglecting other aspects of the game. Notably: resource management, farming, and how this Katarina needs to worry about both even less.

Eurus

2011-12-03, 01:46 PM

PersonMan

2011-12-03, 02:07 PM

Finally saw some decent Volibears, and I see what the fuss is about. Whoa. A significant speed boost with a mini-fling is brutal for jungle ganks, the mini-demacian-justice also includes a massive steroid, his passive is Mundo Ult Lite, and I don't remember what his other abilities actually do but who cares, thunderbear.

Yeah, I played with one and against one on Friday. Of course, the one I was against was competent but the one I played with later was all but useless (enemy team is incredibly fed. Build: Warmog's, Boots.), so my view is a bit skewed, but Voli has quite good gank-helping potential.

Istari

2011-12-03, 02:30 PM

I got destroyed the other day by a Voli/Alister lane. All those knockups is a pain to deal with.

Makensha

2011-12-03, 02:41 PM

Since typing is currently difficult for me, I decided to explain my rework vocally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyu7AMq2t4

One thing I did not mention was the attachment people have to Katarina's innate. It reminds me of Kayle's previous passive. It was a poor mechanic that was empowering. People liked it, but it still was inherently problematic. Same thing with Eve's stun from stealth.

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 04:39 PM

Watching the Kiev qualifier NESL games (http://www.twitch.tv/national_esl1#). EG got d/qed (well, v8 got a bye and EG moved down to losers) because Westrice didn't have the tourney client downloaded.

CLG vs Crs is currently 1-1. Game 1 was back and forth for a while after Crs forced CLG into their base with inhibs down. Three subsequent baron fights see-sawed the advantage from Crs to CLG and then back to Crs. Crs dominated game 2 super early, but a failed blue steal allowed Doublelift to go 3-0 as Vayne in a single fight. That turned the game around, and they eventually ended 4-~15 in favor of CLG. Fairly interesting games.

G3:
CLG bans: Trynd/Soraka/Kog'Maw
Crs bans: Cait/Rammus/Zilean

CLG picks: Udyr / Janna Vayne / Xerath Shyvana (woo! :D)
Crs picks: Alistar Tristana / Ryze Yorick (pick-stealing from jiji and hotshot respectively?) / Shaco.

efdf

2011-12-03, 05:22 PM

those are really godawful picks from CLG

Eldariel

2011-12-03, 05:26 PM

CLG team cohesion just doesn't seem to be there. Dunno what they're doing tbh; they really look like a random solo queue team right now.

toasty

2011-12-03, 05:26 PM

those are really godawful picks from CLG

yeah that game looked painful.

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 05:32 PM

CLG did pretty poorly in nearly all of those games. G1 should have seen CLG shut-out far earlier than they were, G2 only went to CLG after Crs seriously overextended, and G3 was more-or-less a stomp throughout.

EG vs Goose is going up.

EG Bans: Fizz / Kassadin / Lee Sin
Goose Bans: Zilean / Rammus / Yorick

EG picks: Graves / Soraka Amumu / Karthus Nunu Akali
Goose picks: Kennen Leona / Jarvan Shaco / Gragas.

Hoping to see a Soraka/Amumu/Karthus comp coming from EG. Looking that way.

Edit: EG's AoE comp is pretty absurd. Gragas was an excellent counterpick, that displacement ult could do great things for Goose.

Edit Edit: What, woah? After they took down the game to finish runes/masteries and rejoin via blind pick, Westrice switched his Nunu pick to Akali.

toasty

2011-12-03, 05:43 PM

Edit Edit: What, woah? After they took down the game to finish runes/masteries and rejoin via blind pick, Westrice switched his Nunu pick to Akali.

Dyrus told atlanta via chat that they pick akali when Dan's client crashed.

Also: better bench Elementz/ :smalltongue:

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 05:45 PM

Dyrus told atlanta via chat that they pick akali when Dan's client crashed.

Also: better bench Elementz/ :smalltongue:

Ohh, I wasn't paying attention for a minute or so. Dan got randomed Nunu? That makes so much more sense.

toasty

2011-12-03, 05:52 PM

Ohh, I wasn't paying attention for a minute or so. Dan got randomed Nunu? That makes so much more sense.

yeah he randomed. But it was a client glitch so they just remade blind pick. I only noticed cuz I was watching Dyrus' stream for a sec.

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 06:18 PM

Westrice carrying with Akali.

Who could have seen that coming?

Eldariel

2011-12-03, 06:22 PM

Westrice carrying with Akali.

Who could have seen that coming?

To be fair, Dyrus did quite a lot of heavy lifting there too. And they had AP Mummy. The Super Spellvamp Line-Up.

EDIT: Anyone saw who won CLG vs. coL G1?

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 06:24 PM

To be fair, Dyrus did quite a lot of heavy lifting there too. And they had AP Mummy. The Super Spellvamp Line-Up.

Oh, I know. I'm really fond of Dyrus' Karthus, especially with Nhat's Soraka, though I'm disappointed that he didn't go revive-tele.

Edit: I believe that Elementz said that CLG beat Complexity game 1, but I didn't see the game or official results.

Also, the best thing about the NESL stream compared to the players' streams is the lack of STAINS GONE IN THE FIRST WATCH. STAINS STAINS GONE, IN THE FIRST FIRST WASH.

toasty

2011-12-03, 06:33 PM

Oh, I know. I'm really fond of Dyrus' Karthus, especially with Nhat's Soraka, though I'm disappointed that he didn't go revive-tele.

Edit: I believe that Elementz said that CLG beat Complexity game 1, but I didn't see the game or official results.

Also, the best thing about the NESL stream compared to the players' streams is the lack of STAINS GONE IN THE FIRST WATCH. STAINS STAINS GONE, IN THE FIRST FIRST WASH.

Keelie is so annoying that she brings ele down though. Watching the TSM game with their stream is more entertaining.

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 06:39 PM

Kararawr doesn't bother me that much. Her commentary isn't egregiously off, generally, and I appreciate spectator mode.

Game 2:
EG Bans: Karthus / GP / Rammus
Goose Bans: Soraka / Yorick / Zilean

Goose picks: Graves / Leona Shaco / Jarvan Kassadi
EG picks: Fizz Amumu / Sona MF / Kennen

Daverin

2011-12-03, 06:42 PM

Huh; I've never noticed it, but apparently minions may be able to dodge? Something about a less than instead of a less than or equal to, according to Guinsoo (he also thought they fixed it, but apparently there are still reports.) Anyone else have a problem?

Penguinizer

2011-12-03, 06:43 PM

I've had it happen to me once. I didn't see it happen again after the one time though. It's definitely something that happens.

Dogmantra

2011-12-03, 06:45 PM

I have had misses on minions before. Really annoying.

Math_Mage

2011-12-03, 07:05 PM

Jiji: "They used EVERYTHING, Morgana no ulti, go in go in go in!"

*They go in*
*Morg ults*
*Fiddle ults*
*CLG dies*

Best call ever.

(They won anyway, but they definitely aren't playing well.)

toasty

2011-12-03, 07:20 PM

Jiji: "They used EVERYTHING, Morgana no ulti, go in go in go in!"

*They go in*
*Morg ults*
*Fiddle ults*
*CLG dies*

Best call ever.

(They won anyway, but they definitely aren't playing well.)

Yeah, Crs beating them was really, really awesome. So happy for Curse. It was a big "F YOU!!!" to doublelift.

Qwertystop

2011-12-03, 08:08 PM

9mm

2011-12-03, 08:11 PM

So goose takes game 3 vs. epic via jungle pantheon...

:smallconfused:

Math_Mage

2011-12-03, 08:19 PM

Yeah, Crs beating them was really, really awesome. So happy for Curse. It was a big "F YOU!!!" to doublelift.

I watched a TSM game after that on stream, and the quality of coordination and teamplay was completely different. Now CLG is losing to v8, in no small part because jiji gets caught with Kassadin against 5 melee.

So goose takes game 3 vs. epic via jungle pantheon...

:smallconfused:

Dyrus screwed himself over by not going cloth-5 against Tryndamere, and not having mana regen runes for Q spam. Triple stun bot lane was 2 stronk level 2 gank. And Goose just out-CS'd in all lanes to snowball.

ex cathedra

2011-12-03, 08:20 PM

So goose takes game 3 vs. epic via jungle pantheon...

:smallconfused:

The life of an EG fan is hard indeed. :smallannoyed:

Also switching from Elementz to Rambo (the caster, not the Dignitas player, I think?) makes the casting unlistenable. Oh well.

Math_Mage

2011-12-03, 08:23 PM

The life of an EG fan is hard indeed. :smallannoyed:

Also switching from Elementz to Rambo (the caster, not the Dignitas player, I think?) makes the casting unlistenable. Oh well.

Yeah, there's no reason to listen to casters when you can listen to teamchat, UNLESS the caster is skilled enough to offer unique insight on the game's progress.

9mm

2011-12-03, 08:25 PM

Yeah, there's no reason to listen to casters when you can listen to teamchat, UNLESS the caster is skilled enough to offer unique insight on the game's progress.

which elementz could, and this other guy... can't.

Math_Mage

2011-12-03, 08:34 PM

Wow. How did v8 throw that game. HOW.

which elementz could, and this other guy... can't.

Well, yeah. That's exactly what I meant. :smalltongue:

Makensha

2011-12-03, 09:23 PM

Being the only person at my Ranked ELO able to jungle effectively after the changes is really nice.

It might have something to do with me playing Skarner.

My last few ranked games have actually been rather pleasant. Just waiting for a game full of uncooperative ragers to bring down my faith in humanity again.

Till then, good times.

toasty

2011-12-03, 09:43 PM

Wow. How did v8 throw that game. HOW.

Well, yeah. That's exactly what I meant. :smalltongue:

v8 throws. TSM is waiting for them to do so now. Its hilarious, they're just waiting. :smalltongue:]

edit: apparently there is a game 3. I really don't want to watch, but, but, I want to see them lose to v8. :smallbiggrin:

LordShotGun

2011-12-03, 10:30 PM

Math_Mage

2011-12-03, 10:55 PM

v8 throws. TSM is waiting for them to do so now. Its hilarious, they're just waiting. :smalltongue:]

edit: apparently there is a game 3. I really don't want to watch, but, but, I want to see them lose to v8. :smallbiggrin:

Well, you got to see it.

toasty

2011-12-03, 10:55 PM

CLG loses to v8.

WTF.

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN. :smalleek:

Everything I knew no longer is true. BRB rethinking entire life.

Qwertystop

2011-12-03, 10:58 PM

Remember I said I thought the main reason my first 4 games with Karma were lost partially because of feeding teammates?

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1728/43248948.png
VINDICATED!!
I tried a 4-person premade (with the 5th being Talon), and we won awesomely. It seemed fairly even, and then we suddenly pulled ahead and dominated. I used the guide I mentioned last time for build, but I used Dog's tips for teamfights.

Enemy surrendered as we were attacking the Nexus.

Silverraptor

2011-12-03, 11:04 PM

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/SionReviveBearMid.pngSion + Revive Bear Mid

NEW META

That game looked like it was awesome. I hate being without power.:smallannoyed: And I still won't get any for a couple more days!:smallfurious: I'm only able to post now since I'm at a place with power and internet. But for some reason, it blocks my connection attempts to mumble.:smallsigh:

9mm

2011-12-03, 11:05 PM

CLG loses to v8.

WTF.

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN. :smalleek:

Everything I knew no longer is true. BRB rethinking entire life.

makes sense to me, they recently did a massive roster shift. JiJi is still not playing very well, Chauster is still getting used to support, and Saint and Hotshot keep wanting to make conflicting calls.

toasty

2011-12-03, 11:13 PM

makes sense to me, they recently did a massive roster shift. JiJi is still not playing very well, Chauster is still getting used to support, and Saint and Hotshot keep wanting to make conflicting calls.

Its just funny because v8 is pretty much the team that no one respects as a good team and CLG is, ya'know, CLG.

I'm glad, because I think doublelift is overrated and Chauster on support is dumb.

Daverin

2011-12-03, 11:14 PM

That game looked like it was awesome. I hate being without power.:smallannoyed: And I still won't get any for a couple more days!:smallfurious: I'm only able to post now since I'm at a place with power and internet. But for some reason, it blocks my connection attempts to mumble.:smallsigh:

You don't even know. It was one of the best games I ever had. Also, I learned Djinn and I lane and play alot better together when we are trolling. :smalltongue:

toasty

2011-12-04, 12:00 AM

Aaaand crs loses to Goose. I really hope Goose gets 3rd place in the qualifiers.

Maeglin_Dubh

2011-12-04, 01:06 AM

Jungle changes online. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1558036)

Raistlin1040

2011-12-04, 03:12 AM

Am I the only person who is getting no service on the LoL website? It doesn't load correctly for me at all on the NA website. EUW seems to be okay but there appears to be separate forums for EUW, EUNE, and NA. All I can get loaded is the top banner, and a small section of the left side if I place my cursor over where one of the buttons would be. I've tried it in both IE and Chrome, with no success.

I might as well detail my problem that I went to the forum for here. I'm trying to add my friends to my ranked team. I got one of my friends on, but I can't invite the other two because they don't show up as invitable on the bar in the Manage Team tab. I can see them online in my friends list but I can't invite them in the Team list. They're not on the maximum amount of teams (not sure on what that actually is, but I've seen people on three and my friends are on two at most), and I have all the other options when I see them online (send message, invite to game, view profile, etc). Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Neftren

2011-12-04, 03:17 AM

Darth Mario

2011-12-04, 08:58 AM

Forums should be working now.

Dragonus45

2011-12-04, 09:05 AM

Im looking for someone to Duo q up ranked with, preferably someone who can play support or ranged carry so we can bot lane together.

Nanoblack

2011-12-04, 09:13 AM

OKAY... guys... guys... look @.@
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/halolz-dot-com-leagueoflegends-bioshock-annietibbers.jpg

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-04, 09:24 AM

Yo Dragonus, what server/rank? I'm bored of waiting for the probability effect to kick in enough.

(For clarification, the probability effect is where you're good enough that you are never the cause of your team's loss at your ELO. However, every game is decided by who has the most feeders/trolls. Thankfully, there's a 5/9 chance that the trolls and feeders are on the other team. So if you play 90 ranked games, you end up gaining...120 ELO. :smallsigh:)

I'm serious, I've played 6 games in 2 days, have yet to go negative, have yet to come out of the earlygame with less than 3-4 kills or assists, and consistently perform my role perfectly. I have never been the reason my team won, it's always always decided by that one guy who has 6 deaths and 70 cs by 15 minutes.

Dragonus45

2011-12-04, 09:44 AM

Im on the us server, and my name is the same. And im positive in my games so far at 1253 elo, but im worried about going negative. Thats something which i really want to avoid.

Lix Lorn

2011-12-04, 09:45 AM

OKAY... guys... guys... look @.@
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/halolz-dot-com-leagueoflegends-bioshock-annietibbers.jpg
...this
This has to happen
all of my money riot
all of it

Mutant Bunny

2011-12-04, 09:46 AM

OKAY... guys... guys... look @.@
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/halolz-dot-com-leagueoflegends-bioshock-annietibbers.jpg

... Yes. PLEASE.

TechnOkami

2011-12-04, 09:47 AM

OKAY... guys... guys... look @.@
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/halolz-dot-com-leagueoflegends-bioshock-annietibbers.jpg
...this
This has to happen
all of my money riot
all of it
... Yes. PLEASE.
:smallbiggrin: You're welcome. (http://leaguecraft.com/skins/2622-little-sister-amp-big-daddy.xhtml)

Lix Lorn

2011-12-04, 10:40 AM

Also, I just got a pentakill for the first time! ^^
MF normal, duo queue with Fred. Went 23/4/6

Dogmantra

2011-12-04, 11:26 AM

Also, I just got a pentakill for the first time! ^^
MF normal, duo queue with Fred. Went 23/4/6

I have never had a Pentakill, but yesterday I got a quadra as Corki so quickly that it said Quadrakill before Triple and Double :smallbiggrin:

Merellis

2011-12-04, 11:30 AM

Also, I just got a pentakill for the first time! ^^
MF normal, duo queue with Fred. Went 23/4/6

Congrats! Best I've done is Quadra as Fizz. Dat Ult. :smallcool:

If I were to start joining Mumble and such, would I need a mic, or would the ability to hear and listen work fine enough?

sucatraps

2011-12-04, 11:33 AM

Just having headphones is fine. Multiple people either lack mics or prefer not to talk for whatever reason.

EDIT: Or speakers, even.

Lix Lorn

2011-12-04, 11:35 AM

I was about four levels up from them, and had a PD, an IE and Madreds. Their MF tries to take me. I melt her in two seconds. Their Janna comes close for a moment? Dead. Gangplank? Gone. Walk up and find their two tanks? (Rammus and Volibear) Hello Madreds! <3

(is very proud)

Dragonus45

2011-12-04, 12:05 PM

Just had my first cho game top, rocked it against a decent xin, and a very good fiddle. I dont know why i waited so long to get better with him, lord knows i've seen djinn ruin with him well enough.

toasty

2011-12-04, 02:06 PM

Just had my first cho game top, rocked it against a decent xin, and a very good fiddle. I dont know why i waited so long to get better with him, lord knows i've seen djinn ruin with him well enough.

My only problem with Cho'gath is that late game he has terrible damage. The ability to burst one guy... then he's a CC bot. And its a lot harder to get your damage off than you think. Your ult is basically melee range AND has a casting time. :smallsigh:

Actually, in general, the worst thing about being a Bruiser is that you can get kited pretty easily. Hate playing Nasus and not being able to catch someone, despite... having an amazing slow.

Dogmantra

2011-12-04, 02:13 PM

Actually, in general, the worst thing about being a Bruiser is that you can get kited pretty easily. Hate playing Nasus and not being able to catch someone, despite... having an amazing slow.

Flash/Ghost/Quicksilver Sash/Shurelia's?

toasty

2011-12-04, 02:29 PM

Flash/Ghost/Quicksilver Sash/Shurelia's?

AND YOU STILL CAN'T CATCH ASHE. :smallfurious:

tyckspoon

2011-12-04, 02:58 PM

Jungle changes:
"Moved a greater percentage of rewards to the big mobs in the small camps. This is to make counterjungling more impactful."

..didn't these mobs already have like 80% of the gold in them? It's kind of looking like clearing out the small wolves/wraiths/minigolem is just a sort of tax activity you do so you can get the big one to respawn..

toasty

2011-12-04, 03:09 PM

Shades of Gray

2011-12-04, 03:14 PM

I'd like to see them institute a system where mobs gain increased gold for every time your team has defeated them. There is an incentive to get rid of them early; getting more gold in the lategame.

toasty

2011-12-04, 03:37 PM

I'd like to see them institute a system where mobs gain increased gold for every time your team has defeated them. There is an incentive to get rid of them early; getting more gold in the lategame.

It would make AFK farm junglers OP. No one would ever gank.

Eurus

2011-12-04, 03:42 PM

Yeah, I rather like the idea of the mobs-gain-gold-as-they-idle fix. If calibrated right, it could help a lot.

term1nally s1ck

2011-12-04, 04:22 PM

My only problem with Cho'gath is that late game he has terrible damage. The ability to burst one guy... then he's a CC bot. And its a lot harder to get your damage off than you think. Your ult is basically melee range AND has a casting time. :smallsigh:

Actually, in general, the worst thing about being a Bruiser is that you can get kited pretty easily. Hate playing Nasus and not being able to catch someone, despite... having an amazing slow.

You're kidding right? Cho doing no damage? You just grab Atmas and Wit's End, and you're doing 250 per autoattack at a reasonable attack speed, while being completely unkillable.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-04, 05:28 PM

So after getting frustrated with the Kiev qualifiers taking forever to start yesterday, I stopped watching and missed everything. How did they go?

tribble

2011-12-04, 05:29 PM

Or you build cho Tanky AP, and practice landing rupture. If you land the knockup you have plenty of time to amble in and feast, barring, like, flash. And if they do flash, congratulations, you just burned flash for a 10 second cooldown spell.

I find that trying to lead a target with a delayed circle AOE is actually less accurate than just placing the center of the AOE on your target. There's also the tried-and-true method of waiting for a buddy to CC someone before popping rupture.

toasty

2011-12-04, 05:49 PM

So after getting frustrated with the Kiev qualifiers taking forever to start yesterday, I stopped watching and missed everything. How did they go?

1st place: TSM
2nd place: Dig
3rd place: GOOSE

Epik gave V8 a bye becasue they had to forfeit R1 due to Westrice not having the tourney client. Then Salce ditched them so they had to use a sub forcing Dyrus/Westrice to play AP.

Goose beat everyone :smalltongue: 2-1 each game. Pretty sure they knocked out CLG, Crs, AND v8 in the losers bracket. Some pretty intense games with Atlanta jungling Pantheon a lot and everyone being forced to ban Leona because Jarvan/Leona bottom was unstoppable.

TSM had easy games are pretty much the obvious #1 team in North America right now. Dig was the only team that managed to beat out Goose. LOL.

ArcanistSupreme

2011-12-04, 06:07 PM

1st place: TSM
2nd place: Dig
3rd place: GOOSE

Epik gave V8 a bye becasue they had to forfeit R1 due to Westrice not having the tourney client. Then Salce ditched them so they had to use a sub forcing Dyrus/Westrice to play AP.

Goose beat everyone :smalltongue: 2-1 each game. Pretty sure they knocked out CLG, Crs, AND v8 in the losers bracket. Some pretty intense games with Atlanta jungling Pantheon a lot and everyone being forced to ban Leona because Jarvan/Leona bottom was unstoppable.

TSM had easy games are pretty much the obvious #1 team in North America right now. Dig was the only team that managed to beat out Goose. LOL.

Wow, that's pretty cool that other teams are starting to give the big teams trouble. Or the big teams are just getting worse...

Are any of the games recorded somewhere?

toasty

2011-12-04, 06:21 PM

Wow, that's pretty cool that other teams are starting to give the big teams trouble. Or the big teams are just getting worse...

Are any of the games recorded somewhere?

I think their are VODs on Twitch.tv, not sure.

As to Goose winning: Epik didn't have Salce, who is their #1 player 100%. CLG is, for all their boasting, not really that amazing right now. Their bot lane is very inexperienced because Doublelift is on a new team and Chauster isn't used to playing Support. Furthermore, Saint was playing on 3 hours of sleep. They had horrible picks several times (mostly from Saint) and that lost them the game.

Goose is a good team that has been around for a while. Goose is NOT Tier 1 material, but right now League of Legends is becoming very competitive and with teamwork, dedication, and some unorthodox strategies (like Jungle Pantheon) you can can take some teams by surprise and win a game or two, and sometimes, that's all you need to win it all.