League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark

[Silverraptor]

League of Legends XXVI:
We've officially jumped the shark


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General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

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Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
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e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
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Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

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LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
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Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
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TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Daverin]

I guess my only major question about Sivir is this: Will she at least be able to handle the 500 range? Seriously, that is what is grabbing me the most. Not her W, not her base stat nerfs. No, it is the subpar carry range. Can she deal with it? If yes, fine, she'll be fine, because she can build carry and has an AS steroid along with something that boosts the occasional autoattack, like Vayne does (although Vayne's hits the single target much harder.) Except those precious units are a big deal, at all phases in the game, and I am worried that arbitrarily thinking her kit somehow lets her handle being that close in a game fraught with gap closers and CC is going to backfire miserably. If she can't, it doesn't matter how much better her single target is, because all that matters is how it can perform relative to other carries.

Then again, Metagolem. That actually sounds like it would just be pretty cool on her. Although as 9mm put it, if she still relies more on the AoE for damage it could be a trap.

[Terazul]

I know it's a little late in the thread to get reviews on this, but basically I've been somewhat miffed about the current state of one of my favorite champions, and wanted to type something up to toss over in the LoL forums. Was wondering if anyone here would bother to give it a read before I do to see if anything stands out/anything I should cover more?

Just right over here if you want to take a look. (http://pastebin.com/txpNPA0a)

It ends kind of abruptly, so I'm planning on adding a summary/tl;dr, but I'm honestly not sure what else it needs. I could probably offer some suggestions as to fixes, but having trouble with that. :smallfrown:

Just gonna repost this here while getting my checkmark for the new thread. Zooom.

[tribble]

Someone in the last thread was talking about the very long range on Sivir's Q. It needs to hit twice to deal decent damage and its like the slowest skillshot ever.

[Daverin]

Okay, now this is good news: a Riot engineer has stated that they are planning to toughen up the AIR code.

Also, new Xerath passive is in testing phase internally.

[Dogmantra]

Someone in the last thread was talking about the very long range on Sivir's Q. It needs to hit twice to deal decent damage and its like the slowest skillshot ever.

If you hit with the very edge, it actually hits three times and deals ridiculous damage.

[Morph Bark]

And for a moment I thought the title would become "Will it Fizz, or will it bang?" :smalltongue:

[9mm]

I think the critical balancing point for the new Ricochet, both for champion balance and maintaining feel, is the cooldown. I do believe there is a number that allows Ricochet to feel great in lane against enemy champions, still allows her to be an AoE terror in team fights (remember Ricochet now has bonus damage; it's dealing more damage to all targets), still clears waves well, and most importantly still feels like Ricochet. There is a cooldown where the total DPS of Ricochet is the same compared to the old one. I know this is something we've got our eye firmly on.
hope restored, if slightly. It's probably about 2 secs.

[Daverin]

Oh? Well, that changes it up a bit. Now I am much more hopeful for this.

Now if only she were the one getting a model change too!

[Mtg_player_zach]

They are increasing sivir's range...and people are complaining?:smallconfused:. Wat?

Also, Jungle changes. I think its going to promote ganking less and just farming all day. Champs like Yi or Nocturne or some AD carry, are just going to farm jungle and cover lanes. Come out of the jungle midgame on par with solo's with little risk. Obviously you can be counterjungled (and I sure plan on counterjungling), but I think there are going to be more farm all day junglers than we previously saw. Health sigils are going to be interesting. I can see handing them off to mid lane. Should be easy to counterjungle though by just taking the sigil dudes). Also, mid taking wraiths or wolves should happen more now. Bot lane should start in the jungle. No reason not too. Gonna see mid and top helping jungle with leash at the same time bot lane takes mini golems. I think there will be some alright choices, but I'm not sure how I feel about it until I see just what they have done with the respawn timers, and how much health these sigil things give.

[TechnOkami]

Oh? Well, that changes it up a bit. Now I am much more hopeful for this.

Now if only she were the one getting a model change too!

I don't remember her model being too terrible. The only champion who I can think of off the top of my head who I personally think needs a new model + animation is Warwick...

[Penguinizer]

They are increasing sivir's range...and people are complaining?:smallconfused:. Wat?


It's the fact that they turned her Ricochet into a oneshot effect. The one skill that more or less defined her play style.

[9mm]

They are increasing sivir's range...and people are complaining?:smallconfused:. Wat?

they changed ricochet, which was originally stated to have net decrease in dps, though Guinsoo has finally stated that it's possible to reach old sivir dps levels.

[Daverin]

Warwick? I think he looks fine, really. I suppose a champ I REALLY think needs a model rework is Yi, because dem feet. I also feel like Kat could find a remodel to be good, because somewhere along the lines she just seems to choppy (esp with the hair.) Also Morgana.

[TechnOkami]

Warwick? I think he looks fine, really. I suppose a champ I REALLY think needs a model rework is Yi, because dem feet. I also feel like Kat could find a remodel to be good, because somewhere along the lines she just seems to choppy (esp with the hair.) Also Morgana.

If we're going for feet too, throw Nidalee & her cougar into the mix. I actually think Yi looks ok, and the only other one who might be in need of some kind of model change would be Amumu.

I agree with you on Kat though. Not too sure about Morgana though.

[term1nally s1ck]

they changed ricochet, which was originally stated to have net decrease in dps, though Guinsoo has finally stated that it's possible to reach old sivir dps levels.

No, he said that they can balance her by changing that cooldown. There's a certain cooldown where it's the same dps as it was before, and that's what they're working around.

If you get CDR, you're fine.

As for the Q, it's faster than cait's Q to cast. And cait will land at least a few of those in general, and they're guaranteed with a taric or alistar.

[Eurus]

If you get CDR, you're fine.

Yeah, but CDR is kind of hard to itemize on AD champs without Ghostblade.

[LordShotGun]

Yeah, but CDR is kind of hard to itemize on AD champs without Ghostblade.

With the new masteries CDR is quite a bit easier to spec on AD champions without losing the tastiest cap masteries.

[Gourtox]

So in a blog I just started I decided to make the first post about LoL. I want to make sure I didn't mess anything up so I thought I'd run it by the experts. http://fromagamersmind.wordpress.com/
So what do you guys think?

[Daverin]

With the new masteries CDR is quite a bit easier to spec on AD champions without losing the tastiest cap masteries.

Eh, only true if going 21 in defense. Which is completely reasonable for just about anybody, mind, but CDR in offense is still somewhat hard to obtain for an AD unless going beyond 21 points.

[dgnslyr]

Yes, but is it enough to reach that magical, delicious, 40%? Then again, if you plan on playing her as a ranged tanky dps, which I've been hearing about, then it's not so hard to find tanky CDR items. Stuff like Frozen Heart and Shurelia's are pretty delicious CDR items. If you're going for a glass cannon AD carry build, then I guess Ionian boots are a must, as is the Ghostblade. Ionians + Ghostblade + masteries is almost definitely 40%.

[efdf]

Just played 5 arranged 5s and they were all 20 minute surrenders...
really hope it doesn't end up a repeat of last season, with a dead ladder and walk over teams.



So in a blog I just started I decided to make the first post about LoL. I want to make sure I didn't mess anything up so I thought I'd run it by the experts. http://fromagamersmind.wordpress.com/
So what do you guys think?

You should probably say the link at the end is a referral think, people can get really pissy when it feels like they were conned into helping you.

[Gourtox]

You should probably say the link at the end is a referral think, people can get really pissy when it feels like they were conned into helping you.

Added the note and a regular register link.

On a side note I just played my first ARAM game and it was pretty fun. I got to be Cho'gath.

[Daverin]

Hey, apparently there is some drama about missy? Something about a tournament and administrating in it?

[toasty]

Yeah, but CDR is kind of hard to itemize on AD champs without Ghostblade.

Brutalizer, CDR boots, CDR runes, Blue Buff, Frozen Heart, Shurelias, Spirit Visage, I can get 40% CDR on any AD Champion. I might end up being some sort of tanky-guy, but still got 40% CDR.

Also: Shurelias on Sivir would be awesome. Passive+Ult+Shurelias....

[Dogmantra]

Also: Shurelias on Sivir would be awesome. Passive+Ult+Shurelias....

(hint: shurelia's is awesome on anyone because it is one of the best items in the game)

[TechnOkami]

On a side note I just played my first ARAM game and it was pretty fun. I got to be Cho'gath.

What's an ARAM game?

[Daverin]

Okay, a Shurelia's would probably be a good method of CDR on an AD carry; you probably will lose damage, but gain good lane regen, GP/5 as Philos, some beefiness, CDR, and a way to spike your MS for repositioning. On Sivir? Yeah, that definitely sounds like it could work.

[toasty]

(hint: shurelia's is awesome on anyone because it is one of the best items in the game)

Hint: that's why I build it on anyone that enjoys CDR remotely. :smalltongue:

@Ladders: Chaox already fears that Ranked 5s will be useless for high elo teams, which will then make it useless for everyone else. Except the Koreans, or something:smalltongue: TSM is leveling smurfs on EU to play in EU go4lols in an attempt to find regular scrim partners who aren't CLG/EG/Dig/Curse/MiG. (tho honestly, I think that if MiG and the other East Asian teams are willing to keep scrimming on NA then TSM should be okay. I guess with the advent of Local servers they are less inclined. And that leaves TSM with very few scrim partners. Basically, the people at MLG).

Riot needs to do two things: First of all, tell you who you are playing against IN CHAMPION SELECT. Playing against a team "blind" is useless at High Elo because bans at this point are almost 100% based on enemy team's strengths.

Secondly, Ranked needs to matter for tourements. Ranked teams need to get Circuit points and events like Go4LoLs, MLG, and IEM need to use Teams Ranked Elos to determine seedings. Etc. That would give everyone a reason to play in Ranked 5s, even teams like CLG.

[Daverin]

OOH, that was the missy drama. Apparently, she played Girls4Lol, which she organizes, loses to a team, has an informal IP check by Riot, finds some of the IPs associated with the team associated with known male players, and bans on those grounds. Apparently, while having Chauster carry her team in previous rounds.

Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1521159

No clue how accurate it is, but I do understand she is being criticized for some kind of cheating/abuse of her power. Also, she apparently claimed she is a better support than Elementz.

... So, yeah. Can these guys learn to not be so dramatic and antagonistic?

EDIT: Apparently, the above is not original source, this is: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/moprb/the_truth_of_what_happened_with_girls4lol/

[dgnslyr]

Well, I seem to be a bit late to the clever jokes party, but why is a build of Merc Treads, Atmas, Warmogs, Triforce, and FoN called the Metagolem? Would someone care to enlighten me on this clever bit of humor? :smallconfused:

[Gourtox]

What's an ARAM game?

All Random All Middle. That basically sums up the game except you can't bluepill or leave middle lane and no revive.

[LostEnder]

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=246140&d=1313352170

This is the reason for the name.

[dgnslyr]

I've seen the picture, but... that's the only reason? Because it looks like a golem and fits the metagame?

[Daverin]

Did someone say metagame?

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=45893&d=1312479605

(In all seriousness, I believe yes, the reason is as simple as that.)

[toasty]

Well, I seem to be a bit late to the clever jokes party, but why is a build of Merc Treads, Atmas, Warmogs, Triforce, and FoN called the Metagolem? Would someone care to enlighten me on this clever bit of humor? :smallconfused:

When everyone builds the same items on about 50% of all heroes and is still moderately successful it becomes metagolem.

[littlebottom]

maybe im blind, but i cant seem to tell if riot have announced changes to characters with dodge. they might not of done, but what with the dodge masteries gone, and soon dodge runes are going to be refunded, i can only imagine changing characters with dodge around the corner.

anyone got any info? (primarily on jax's dodge stun)

[Daverin]

... To be honest, yes, yes you are blind, considering their plans with dodge were on the announcements just a week ago! :smalltongue:

Yes, dodge champs will be modified. Jax in particular is in the rework process one more time. No real info on where it will lead him this round, though.

[littlebottom]

... To be honest, yes, yes you are blind, considering their plans with dodge were on the announcements just a week ago! :smalltongue:

Yes, dodge champs will be modified. Jax in particular is in the rework process one more time. No real info on where it will lead him this round, though.

oh thanks, obviously my skills of deduction and searching dwindle at 3 AM :smallredface:

Ah well, we will just have to wait and see i guess, it will be a shame if i dont like Jax's play style any more considering i bought a skin for him :smallannoyed:

[Reinboom]

to bad we HAVE NUMBERS!

go look at her stats on LoL Wiki; now increase the AA range by 75 and her movespeed by 50. now subtract numbers from everything else. Statikk confirmed across the board number nerfs. BB's scaling is going down (loss of AP scaling), though it now does physical damage, spell shields mana costs are going up, ult unchanged. The only number we DON'T KNOW is Richocte's new base damage and new AD scaling; however the total dps is confirmed to less than what she has now.

And Moakai is OP, people just haven't fully realized it yet.


Ult unchanged? :smallconfused:

Simply because something wasn't mentioned, does not mean that it isn't happening. Please do not assume.



Also, on the note of "But that QA or designer doesn't actively play that champion!"
A couple things to note:
1. A designer has to go through a ton of research and play of a champion, hundreds of hours worth, before they are allowed to issue a remake. That remake then goes through company wide testing.

2. A QA or designer who discusses changes the forums are not always (usually not in my experience) the person who made the actual changes, they are just better than the actual designer at conversing about it. (Note: There are notable exceptions. Xypherous is REALLY good at explaining things.) Incidentally, this is why Morello gets so much flack for changing tons of crap. He actually only talks about what his team changes and nearly never actually makes direct design choices that are not more high level. He just communicates for the teams (from meetings to the forums).

[Mutant Bunny]

oh thanks, obviously my skills of deduction and searching dwindle at 3 AM :smallredface:

Ah well, we will just have to wait and see i guess, it will be a shame if i dont like Jax's play style any more considering i bought a skin for him :smallannoyed:

Well, considering that Counterstrike depends on either minion aggro or autoattacking enemies, any change that makes it more dependable is a good thing. Someone here suggested he might get a spellshield like Sivir or Nocturne to activate it- I'd accept that. Of course, you'd also need to change his ult's active a bit, since the Mres increases based on dodge chance...

[Daverin]

Now I will call you and Riot out on this ; if you are mentioning a remake in the preview, then I think it is completely fair and expectable to mention ALL changes coming in, as even the minor ones are now part of the whole package; this is only worse considering all the other information being filtered in (which, btw, I do have to say Statikk's confirmation of base stat nerfs did not sound quite like it meshed with the preview.)

For example, if she is getting a buff to her AS portion of her ult, this, despite not being a "rework," fuels the direction of the rework, which appears to give her much more single-target power.

I'm just saying that the preview is a major mechanism in expectation, and if it is something as big as changing the champ outright, even a brief note that something as simple as ult number changes should not be missed. The patch preview, is, to be honest, the first impression for a great many people of what to expect in terms of major changes. You really don't want to miss anything that will make sure the right impression gets out.

[Dogmantra]

Now I will call you and Riot out on this ; if you are mentioning a remake in the preview, then I think it is completely fair and expectable to mention ALL changes coming in,

I would imagine that there's a good reason beyond "we inexplicably decided we don't like our playerbase" for not revealing all the changes, perhaps they're still having last minute tweaks, for example.

[Daverin]

To be honest, this would be a pretty bad time to have "last minute tweaks" when the tweaks are something such as "whether or not to even affect an ability." The info is given, major playtesting is done, and deadlines are approaching. Now, if the tweak was, say, to change how much the range buff was, or if they were uncertain of the numbers change to the ult, then it would be fine. But, they should at the least be prepared to say whether or not something is changing at all.

[Reinboom]

Now I will call you and Riot out on this ; if you are mentioning a remake in the preview, then I think it is completely fair and expectable to mention ALL changes coming in, as even the minor ones are now part of the whole package; this is only worse considering all the other information being filtered in (which, btw, I do have to say Statikk's confirmation of base stat nerfs did not sound quite like it meshed with the preview.)

For example, if she is getting a buff to her AS portion of her ult, this, despite not being a "rework," fuels the direction of the rework, which appears to give her much more single-target power.

I'm just saying that the preview is a major mechanism in expectation, and if it is something as big as changing the champ outright, even a brief note that something as simple as ult number changes should not be missed. The patch preview, is, to be honest, the first impression for a great many people of what to expect in terms of major changes. You really don't want to miss anything that will make sure the right impression gets out.

There is a problem there though. Many times while the patch preview is being produced, the numbers are still in sway. In many cases, there is an issue where one of many possible routes are in testing and the actual final one hasn't been absolutely decided.

This causes cases of "Well, you guys said the ultimate will get changed!" when it doesn't. Or "You guys said you aren't touching the ultimate!" when it suddenly gets a hefty change.

"Maybe this or this." causes people to divide, pick sides, and complain when the one they wanted doesn't get chosen.

This is why, generally, only part of the changes get announced and also why the stated goal of the patch preview is more to declare the reasoning of the changes - not the whole changes themselves.

This also leads to mistakes and rather embarrassing circumstances where a major change was in the pipeline gets partially announced and then killed before the finalized patch is made (see: "major Caitlyn nerfs").

[efdf]

OOH, that was the missy drama. Apparently, she played Girls4Lol, which she organizes, loses to a team, has an informal IP check by Riot, finds some of the IPs associated with the team associated with known male players, and bans on those grounds. Apparently, while having Chauster carry her team in previous rounds.

Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1521159

No clue how accurate it is, but I do understand she is being criticized for some kind of cheating/abuse of her power. Also, she apparently claimed she is a better support than Elementz.

... So, yeah. Can these guys learn to not be so dramatic and antagonistic?

EDIT: Apparently, the above is not original source, this is: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/moprb/the_truth_of_what_happened_with_girls4lol/

Couple things:

Chauster claimed Missy was a better support than Elementz, not Missy herself; they've spent a lot of time duo queuing together as AD and support and Chauster thinks Elementz isn't aggressive enough and can't make plays on his own and must be told what to do by the rest of CLG. Elementz claims this is because of CLG's toxic atmosphere that endlessly berates mistakes and makes him afraid of making plays.

MegaZero, the person who is most often claimed to be the male player for ~meow~ states the reason his IP would show up is because the real player was at his house, and he was giving her and her team advice while watching the game, and that wasn't against the rules. Also, the real player's internet was said to be not stable enough for tournament play.

Missy's team is suspected strongly of cheating, not just because of the words of LolThrowaway187 but because of their behavior playing against The Untamed. They postponed the third game (which decided who won the set) until the next day (against their own posted rules) after a conversation with a muted stream. Interestingly enough, CLG was scrimming at the time of the original set of 2, so people suspected that the reason the final game was postponed was that so Chauster could play in the final game after the final game wasn't streamed while the first two were.

[Daverin]

Now, this is definitely personal philosophy and not really advice, but my feeling is that by this time in the phase the "qualitative" measures should at least be ready; i.e. which abilities are getting changed and how. The "quantitative" can change after that. i.e. how much of the change is happening. For example, the preview mentions that range is getting buffed and that passive= MS. It does not mention the numbers. I am only saying the same should happen for the ult. And if you are not sure yet on whether the ult should change at all by now? Then it is not exactly reassuring that a change to another ability is not finalized yet.

Of course, it may not seem as bad since I am "guessing" that the ult is only getting a numbers tweak, which ultimately could range from nothing to something; I am just saying that you should at least be in a ballpark by now, and able to say whether or not it is being changed at all.

And I do understand about not wanting to make premature decisions or at least premature announcements; I think the biggest one I recall was the original design goal for Xerath with the more cost for more power as he casts, AKA opening coffin. Of course, that was a whole different set of circumstances, but the reaction from some sectors of the community it got was clearly something to be avoided.

[TechnOkami]

~snippity snip snip snippers snip!~

I think I'll side a little with Daverin on this.

Simply: I believe it should be more emphasized in the Patch Previews that changes are not definite, this is what we (Riot) are thinking of so far, and numbers/mechanic changes/ect. are still in flux. or have the possibility to change. If you present it in this manner, it comes off as less definite and gives the LoL community a chance to better voice their opinion on the ideas for current changes rather than having sudden outbursts of annoyance/anger.

Hope that helps. :D

[Reinboom]

Now, this is definitely personal philosophy and not really advice, but my feeling is that by this time in the phase the "qualitative" measures should at least be ready; i.e. which abilities are getting changed and how. The "quantitative" can change after that. i.e. how much of the change is happening. For example, the preview mentions that range is getting buffed and that passive= MS. It does not mention the numbers. I am only saying the same should happen for the ult. And if you are not sure yet on whether the ult should change at all by now? Then it is not exactly reassuring that a change to another ability is not finalized yet.

Of course, it may not seem as bad since I am "guessing" that the ult is only getting a numbers tweak, which ultimately could range from nothing to something; I am just saying that you should at least be in a ballpark by now, and able to say whether or not it is being changed at all.

And I do understand about not wanting to make premature decisions or at least premature announcements; I think the biggest one I recall was the original design goal for Xerath with the more cost for more power as he casts, AKA opening coffin.

It's not so much design choices by this late as it is "sanity" checks. Testing is done til the very end to make sure of absolutely everything.

Even those sanity checks can reveal problems.

There is also a notable issue in that when things are finalized absolutely, there might not be available designers who can fully discuss it since they are finally having their weekend or have already been pulled for the next project.
Since the general preference is for people who have directly worked on projects to be the one to discuss, it does leave gaps (we consider this a bad thing, btw. We like communication!).



I will admit also even with that, the work pipeline here is incredibly fast. It allows for much faster reaction to certain events (at an obvious cost). This is the general developer preference here, however.



I will still mention the suggestion of outright stating "These are in flux." to Morello, though. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Da Beast]

Can anyone recommend me a good AP carry to look into? Someone who can snowball and make up for a bad team. The only characters I really feel comfortable playing in pvp are Ashe, Janna, and occasionally Lux. Ashe is weak until really late game at which point a bad team will have already cost me the match, Janna is fun but can't carry and support isn't really my thing anyways, and Lux, while cool, is just not that great. Gragas looks like fun and Morgana looks really op (especially with that spell shield) but I'm warry of buying anymore characters without trying them first. I'm looking for an AP carry because at my elo most people seem to go AD and I always try to fill missing gaps on my team (see Janna) but I'm interested in any fun champ who I can master and win games with.

[Daverin]

I can get behind the "in flux" concept of the preview, easily enough. It certainly lowers the expectation of how close to the final product everything is. I guess part of it comes from being a person who likes deadlines and punctuality. That said, I think Riot is lucky to be in a position where they can say "we need to hold stuff off to fix something," and I would not want that to change, which kind of gives you the flexibility to change so late. In other words, I appreciate and respect that you guys want to be able to say as little and change as much as reasonably possible with a somewhat flexible patch day. I just sometimes have to stymy my own personal thoughts on time-management, where having certain areas solidified by this point in time is preferred. :smalltongue:

DaBeast: Given how prevalent AP carries are, it would be useful to know what qualifiers there are. I will say that learning Brand, Anivia, Morgana, and Annie gives you a well rounded crew of casters who scale well and can shape the game to some degree, which generally is one of the better powers to have when going solo. Of them, all but Anivia are considered competent to good laners (Anivia being a bit more nuanced in lane... and all stages in general. Eld is dah man when it comes to Anivia advice, though.)

[Reinboom]

I can get behind the "in flux" concept of the preview, easily enough. It certainly lowers the expectation of how close to the final product everything is. I guess part of it comes from being a person who likes deadlines and punctuality. That said, I think Riot is lucky to be in a position where they can say "we need to hold stuff off to fix something," and I would not want that to change, which kind of gives you the flexibility to change so late. In other words, I appreciate and respect that you guys want to be able to say as little and change as much as reasonably possible with a somewhat flexible patch day. I just sometimes have to stymy my own personal thoughts on time-management, where having certain areas solidified by this point in time is preferred. :smalltongue:

Time management in the software industry? I can tell you are from a different business. :smalltongue:

More seriously though, there are deadlines. They work slightly different with the software industry though and especially so for iterative software companies (Riot).
If there was no time constraints, then nothing would be released ever. Not because we developers and designers would be doing no work, but because we would be always improving that one feature we really love instead of releasing it. Iterative time constraints (every two weeks) tries to ensure we instead are always getting design time to create and while actually releasing content.

[Joran]

Someone in the last thread was talking about the very long range on Sivir's Q. It needs to hit twice to deal decent damage and its like the slowest skillshot ever.

Heimerdinger's Grenade would like to talk to you.

[Daverin]

Time management in the software industry? I can tell you are from a different business. :smalltongue:

More seriously though, there are deadlines. They work slightly different with the software industry though and especially so for iterative software companies (Riot).
If there was no time constraints, then nothing would be released ever. Not because we developers and designers would be doing no work, but because we would be always improving that one feature we really love instead of releasing it. Iterative time constraints (every two weeks) tries to ensure we instead are always getting design time to create and while actually releasing content.

Well, no business yet (besides college,) but I suppose you can tell what kind of business I would run! :smalltongue:

[9mm]

There is also a notable issue in that when things are finalized absolutely, there might not be available designers who can fully discuss it since they are finally having their weekend or have already been pulled for the next project.
Since the general preference is for people who have directly worked on projects to be the one to discuss, it does leave gaps (we consider this a bad thing, btw. We like communication!).


Public Relations people, hire them. Please. Yes Renektons happen; but holy moly a com plan would lessen drama.

Though I'm still annoyed at having to mash my W.

[Reinboom]

Public Relations people, hire them. Please. Yes Renektons happen; but holy moly a com plan would lessen drama.

Though I'm still annoyed at having to mash my W.

That would be our Community team.

I would also like to point out we are always hiring. :smalltongue:

[Mutant Bunny]

So... after playing a bot game to cool down after a slightly disappointing college football game, I was reminded that the Tribunal exists for a reason... and somewhat motivated to do a few cases this week.

I have to say, though, it was the first real troll in recent memory. Has the Tribunal been working, or have I just not been playing often enough to run into the trolls?

[Joran]

Incidentally, this is why Morello gets so much flack for changing tons of crap. He actually only talks about what his team changes and nearly never actually makes direct design choices that are not more high level. He just communicates for the teams (from meetings to the forums).

Well, this just confirms what I thought: Morello takes a ton of crap for stuff he probably didn't do.

BTW, do most people in Riot refer to each other by their handles? Like do you call Morello "Morello" or is he "Ryan"?

P.S. Thanks SweetRein for your posts. The view behind the curtain at Riot is really interesting and informative. I'm glad you've continued to post here... you're on vacation, aren't you? =P

[Draken]

I bet they use the handles, nicknames stick.

I took to calling my cousin by his general internet username for years, and to this day, much of my family calls my grandmother by the nickname I gave her back when I was 2-3 years old and couldn't speak her name properly. :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

Sweetrein, since you're here, I'd like to agree with everything Toasty said and ask you if you could pretty please see if some Rioter who's involved in the Ranked setup would lend you an ear. Ranked Teams absolutely should show what team you're playing against in champion select, because it allows high-level players to ban strategically rather than by FotM, and making Ranked 5s count towards tournament seeding would be one great way to keep it from dying off the way it did last season.

Also, I know you aren't exactly the designer working specifically on Sivir, but if you know whether the ult is being made more impactful at lower levels (maybe like 40/65/90% AS instead of 30/60/90%), that would be great.


What's an ARAM game?

All Random All Mid.
-No Fortify (haha) or Teleport (like it would matter).
-You are restricted to the base (inside the walls) and mid lane; no moving about in brush, jungle, or side lane. If side lane creeps push to your base, you can farm them.
-No farming jungle creeps with ranged abilities (e.g. Karthus can't grab wraiths over the wall with Q).

There may be other rules, I don't remember.


I've seen the picture, but... that's the only reason? Because it looks like a golem and fits the metagame?

METAGOLEM is an itemization path that is TOTALLY META and LOOKS LIKE A GOLEM DUDE. So, yes.


Couple things:

Chauster claimed Missy was a better support than Elementz, not Missy herself; they've spent a lot of time duo queuing together as AD and support and Chauster thinks Elementz isn't aggressive enough and can't make plays on his own and must be told what to do by the rest of CLG. Elementz claims this is because of CLG's toxic atmosphere that endlessly berates mistakes and makes him afraid of making plays.

FWIW Missy apparently trashtalked Elementz on stream and said she was the better support a couple days after Chauster said it in chat.

[Reinboom]

Well, this just confirms what I thought: Morello takes a ton of crap for stuff he probably didn't do.

BTW, do most people in Riot refer to each other by their handles? Like do you call Morello "Morello" or is he "Ryan"?

It depends on who it is.

Mostly, it's their first names. When they have a generic first name, then it will be by their last names (exception: Tryndamere and Ryze are first name basis or whole name even though their names are generic).

There are a couple exceptions though, Phreak is Phreak.

Also, when we're aware of the fact that we're conversing with a different Rioter who might not also know a specific Rioter we are trying to discuss, many times their online handle will be used.
For example, while talking with Morello recently (who I refer to as Ryan), I mentioned 0pherion by handle instead of real name since the two never outright met each other.




Sweetrein, since you're here, I'd like to agree with everything Toasty said and ask you if you could pretty please see if some Rioter who's involved in the Ranked setup would lend you an ear. Ranked Teams absolutely should show what team you're playing against in champion select, because it allows high-level players to ban strategically rather than by FotM, and making Ranked 5s count towards tournament seeding would be one great way to keep it from dying off the way it did last season.

Also, I know you aren't exactly the designer working specifically on Sivir, but if you know whether the ult is being made more impactful at lower levels (maybe like 40/65/90% AS instead of 30/60/90%), that would be great.


Most of the suggestions, such as this one, are also internal suggestions already.
The reason it's not that way already is usually due to time constraints on when a feature should be released versus what it should have. It may or may not be added in the future, it depends on what the team prioritizes. If you'd like though, one of the main developers on that is being rather active currently (ArbiterofCool) and would probably be more than welcome to taking that suggestion directly. :smallsmile:

On the ult, it got tweaked. I don't really know the reasoning behind each piece of the tweak and I can't outright state it's a buff or nerf (mostly because I'm not familiar enough with Sivir personally to state that and I can't really tell by just what I have.)

Unfortunately, I can't give you details of what that means. Or even if the information I'm giving is the final. I only use patch notes to ensure the Game / Web bridge is functioning correctly (I'm the developer who "owns" the bridge), so I don't have the "final" internal notes I don't think.

[ex cathedra]

I don't understand why people feel the need to whine about the patch previews in the first place. You can't do any reasonable theory crafting without all of the numbers involved in a champion's change, and if they aren't ready or comfortable releasing that it's entirely understandable. How hard is it to wait three days for patch notes, anyways?

Also, regarding the phrase "in flux:" The patch preview shouldn't have to tell you something you should already know. Data that hasn't been officially released/implemented (read: placed into the game) hasn't been officially released/implemented. Riot doesn't owe a patch preview to the public. The patch preview doesn't confer any benefits to those who watch. It's simply for our curiosity and entertainment and suggesting that Riot owes the playerbase anything more than that is just unreasonable.

But maybe that's just me. :smallconfused:

[Joran]

I don't understand why people feel the need to whine about the patch previews in the first place. You can't do any reasonable theory crafting without all of the numbers involved in a champion's change, and if they aren't ready or comfortable releasing that it's entirely understandable. How hard is it to wait three days for patch notes, anyways?

Also, regarding the phrase "in flux:" The patch preview shouldn't have to tell you something you should already know. Data that hasn't been officially released/implemented (read: placed into the game) hasn't been officially released/implemented. Riot doesn't owe a patch preview to the public. The patch preview doesn't confer any benefits to those who watch. It's simply for our curiosity and entertainment and suggesting that Riot owes the playerbase anything more than that is just unreasonable.

But maybe that's just me. :smallconfused:

Nah, not just you. I've learned long ago that the patch previews don't really tell me anything and I should just wait for the patch notes or go looking through the dev tracker to see what the developers have been saying.

What I really miss is the Phreak talking to Morello talking to Tamat videos that were turned into the Patch Preview Comics. Nerf Master Suck Town and Dance Master Phreak forever!


Unfortunately, I can't give you details of what that means. Or even if the information I'm giving is the final. I only use patch notes to ensure the Game / Web bridge is functioning correctly (I'm the developer who "owns" the bridge), so I don't have the "final" internal notes I don't think.

Err... What is the Game/Web bridge? Is that the code so that when you click on something in the client (like the patch notes) it opens a web browser to display it?

[ex cathedra]

What I really miss is the Phreak talking to Morello talking to Tamat videos that were turned into the Patch Preview Comics. Nerf Master Suck Town and Dance Master Phreak forever!

Agreed. Those were fantastic.

[Reinboom]

Err... What is the Game/Web bridge? Is that the code so that when you click on something in the client (like the patch notes) it opens a web browser to display it?

It's an internal tool that rips graphics, data, and code from Platform and Game, merges it, and rebuilds it in to data files. Then packages that altogether.

The resulting bundle is then uploaded in to the website (that's how the Learning Center gets updated). Distributed to other international parts of the company (that's how the other lol websites, such as garena's, stays up to date). As well as applied in other uses.


Basically, it's not something players directly interact with, just see the results of.

I work on constantly tweaking it, fixing it, and expanding it to make it able to handle the weirdness of the Game data more and more steadily.
Incidentally, because of it's nature of showing the /real/ data instead of the exceptions-ridden "player facing" data, it's also the reason why there are some VERY weird things on the website.
For example, look at Evelynn's ultimate here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/champions/28/evelynn_the_widowmaker
In the actual data, her ultimate actually has a range of 162.1.

[Eurus]

In the actual data, her ultimate actually has a range of 162.1.

...Why? :smalltongue:

[Da Beast]

No one has any advice on an AP carry :smallfrown:?

[Reinboom]

...Why? :smalltongue:

I believe just old code or antiquated interactions.
In this case, it might be a joke that I can't figure who thought it was funny. :smalltongue:


That's just a recent one I noticed and one of many I'm in the progress of documenting and hunting down. If I remember and if I figure out the reason, I'll try to detail that here.

[Math_Mage]

Can anyone recommend me a good AP carry to look into? Someone who can snowball and make up for a bad team. The only characters I really feel comfortable playing in pvp are Ashe, Janna, and occasionally Lux. Ashe is weak until really late game at which point a bad team will have already cost me the match, Janna is fun but can't carry and support isn't really my thing anyways, and Lux, while cool, is just not that great. Gragas looks like fun and Morgana looks really op (especially with that spell shield) but I'm warry of buying anymore characters without trying them first. I'm looking for an AP carry because at my elo most people seem to go AD and I always try to fill missing gaps on my team (see Janna) but I'm interested in any fun champ who I can master and win games with.

Lux can do NASTY things if she starts snowballing. So can Annie, Gragas, Morgana, Xerath, Kassadin, Akali, Karthus, Brand...really, most AP carries can do this, because when a burst damage champ gets fed, it leads to instagibs. Sion's probably the easiest to snowball with at most skill levels, though.

[Da Beast]

I have snowballed Lux once or twice, so I know what she can do when fed. The main thing I hate about her is how long her cool downs are. You blow her combo and then you have so much time where you just stand around not contributing. If you're not snowballing and can't instakill with her Q-E-maybe also an R combo you're probably in trouble.

Edit: This is partially coming from a bad match I had last night where my team wasn't that coordinated and the other team had a lot of move speed so I ended up dieing over and over again.

[Cute_Riolu]

It's an internal tool that rips graphics, data, and code from Platform and Game, merges it, and rebuilds it in to data files. Then packages that altogether.

The resulting bundle is then uploaded in to the website (that's how the Learning Center gets updated). Distributed to other international parts of the company (that's how the other lol websites, such as garena's, stays up to date). As well as applied in other uses.


Basically, it's not something players directly interact with, just see the results of.

I work on constantly tweaking it, fixing it, and expanding it to make it able to handle the weirdness of the Game data more and more steadily.
Incidentally, because of it's nature of showing the /real/ data instead of the exceptions-ridden "player facing" data, it's also the reason why there are some VERY weird things on the website.
For example, look at Evelynn's ultimate here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/champions/28/evelynn_the_widowmaker
In the actual data, her ultimate actually has a range of 162.1.

That tool sounds altogether messy. No wonder it needs someone to constantly be on it. :P

[Math_Mage]

I have snowballed Lux once or twice, so I know what she can do when fed. The main thing I hate about her is how long her cool downs are. You blow her combo and then you have so much time where you just stand around not contributing. If you're not snowballing and can't instakill with her Q-E-maybe also an R combo you're probably in trouble.

Edit: This is partially coming from a bad match I had last night where my team wasn't that coordinated and the other team had a lot of move speed so I ended up dieing over and over again.

Well, ya can't beat Karthus for short CDs. :smalltongue: Plus Karthus can randomly feed off side lane ganks, and you can kite with wall. So, yeah, sounds like you should pick him up.

[Reinboom]

That tool sounds altogether messy. No wonder it needs someone to constantly be on it. :P

It depends. I've poured about five days of focused work over the last month in to it. (Different points of it. I just built a tool that takes the bundle and unpackages it into the website semi automatically as well like... 5 days ago which took about a day to make.)

It generally only needs things steadily added to it as requested as well as fixing whatever the latest champion breaks in it.
The backlog of technical debt (such as Evelynn's ult range) is more minor tasks that I kill while being bored with other projects.


The tool itself isn't that messy, it just needs to interpret things that change rapidly.

[Eldariel]

I have snowballed Lux once or twice, so I know what she can do when fed. The main thing I hate about her is how long her cool downs are. You blow her combo and then you have so much time where you just stand around not contributing. If you're not snowballing and can't instakill with her Q-E-maybe also an R combo you're probably in trouble.

Edit: This is partially coming from a bad match I had last night where my team wasn't that coordinated and the other team had a lot of move speed so I ended up dieing over and over again.

Anivia is the best AP carry in the game. Also the most fun. Just saying.


But really, top APs right now are:
- Cassiopeia
- Xerath
- Zilean
- Brand
- Kassadin
- Anivia
- Gragas
- Morgana
- Kennen
- Ryze
- Karthus (called this 6 months ago, btw)
- Vladimir (called this after his nerf, btw)

Then you have Orianna, Rumble, Annie, Akali, etc. Nothing wrong with them, don't think they're quite as good-to-go APs as the tops right now (Orianna prolly is but she's too hard for people to play properly).

Almost all of them have some sustained damage capability; Cassiopeia has constant damage from her E, Anivia has her constant ult, Karthus has no CD Q, Vlad has little-to-no-CDs, Ryze has no next to no Q cooldowns if comboed properly, Zile has minimal CDs, Kennen has low CDs, Gragas has low CD Q + E, Xerath has relatively short cooldowns, Kassadin has W and R spam with minimal cooldown, Brand has medium cooldowns, Morgana has medium cooldowns.

Most of 'em actually take a lot of practice tho. But they're all really, really strong when played properly. Easiest out of that bunch is probably Vladimir actually, though even he's kinda tricky. Ryze is pretty easy too once you master his comboes but they might take a bit of work and a lot of smartcasting to get right.

If you dislike cooldowns and want someone who can snowball like crazy, lane well and be ridiculously strong, look at Cassiopeia. She takes a lot of practice between needing to land her Qs, having to time R while enemies are facing her, and lots of kiting-based gameplay, but she's strong, doesn't suffer of cooldowns and snowballs like a beast.

Oh, and Kassadin is obviously the king of snowballing. Assassins tend to do that and a well-played Kass is a monster to behold.

[toasty]

The next time I hear anyone, ANYONE complain about trynd, I'm going to say one word: Teemo.

Today I faced trynd twice as teemo. Both times the trynd failed. I admit, the 2nd one tried very hard to FB me and he almost made it, but I'm teemo, yo, and ignite > exhaust early game. By the end of the game he was just feeding because I had hurt him so hard top lane.

(It didn't help that their rammus had connection issues, but I don't think that would have effected me unless he just flat out camped top the entire friggin game, but that will effect anyone).

[ex cathedra]

Sorry. Morgana all the way. She's practically anti-everything.

[toasty]

Sorry. Morgana all the way. She's practically anti-everything.

I dunno why, but I'm REALLY not a fan of Morgana. I'd rather just have Karthus or Zilean any day.

[Daverin]

So, since the forums are hardly the best place to get TF info, is he really as bad as people feel? For some reason, I swear whenever I see his Q land, it hurts so much harder than its base and scaling would suggest.

[Silverraptor]

Okay, now this is good news: a Riot engineer has stated that they are planning to toughen up the AIR code.

Also, new Xerath passive is in testing phase internally.

Really? Who thought of that?:smalltongue:


Ult unchanged? :smallconfused:

Simply because something wasn't mentioned, does not mean that it isn't happening. Please do not assume.



Also, on the note of "But that QA or designer doesn't actively play that champion!"
A couple things to note:
1. A designer has to go through a ton of research and play of a champion, hundreds of hours worth, before they are allowed to issue a remake. That remake then goes through company wide testing.

2. A QA or designer who discusses changes the forums are not always (usually not in my experience) the person who made the actual changes, they are just better than the actual designer at conversing about it. (Note: There are notable exceptions. Xypherous is REALLY good at explaining things.) Incidentally, this is why Morello gets so much flack for changing tons of crap. He actually only talks about what his team changes and nearly never actually makes direct design choices that are not more high level. He just communicates for the teams (from meetings to the forums).


There is a problem there though. Many times while the patch preview is being produced, the numbers are still in sway. In many cases, there is an issue where one of many possible routes are in testing and the actual final one hasn't been absolutely decided.

This causes cases of "Well, you guys said the ultimate will get changed!" when it doesn't. Or "You guys said you aren't touching the ultimate!" when it suddenly gets a hefty change.

"Maybe this or this." causes people to divide, pick sides, and complain when the one they wanted doesn't get chosen.

This is why, generally, only part of the changes get announced and also why the stated goal of the patch preview is more to declare the reasoning of the changes - not the whole changes themselves.

This also leads to mistakes and rather embarrassing circumstances where a major change was in the pipeline gets partially announced and then killed before the finalized patch is made (see: "major Caitlyn nerfs").


It's not so much design choices by this late as it is "sanity" checks. Testing is done til the very end to make sure of absolutely everything.

Even those sanity checks can reveal problems.

There is also a notable issue in that when things are finalized absolutely, there might not be available designers who can fully discuss it since they are finally having their weekend or have already been pulled for the next project.
Since the general preference is for people who have directly worked on projects to be the one to discuss, it does leave gaps (we consider this a bad thing, btw. We like communication!).



I will admit also even with that, the work pipeline here is incredibly fast. It allows for much faster reaction to certain events (at an obvious cost). This is the general developer preference here, however.



I will still mention the suggestion of outright stating "These are in flux." to Morello, though. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Thanks for more insight into the behind the scenes of Riot Rein.:smallsmile:


That would be our Community team.

I would also like to point out we are always hiring. :smalltongue:

http://visibleprocrastinations.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/evil.jpg?w=500

:smalltongue:

[ex cathedra]

I dunno why, but I'm REALLY not a fan of Morgana. I'd rather just have Karthus or Zilean any day.

Karthus and Zilean are fantastic but situational. Morgana... kind of isn't, you know? She's not the best in every situation, but there are very few teams who don't want at least something that Morgana brings to the table.

[toasty]

Karthus and Zilean are fantastic but situational. Morgana... kind of isn't, you know? She's not the best in every situation, but there are very few teams who don't want at least something that Morgana brings to the table.

Zilean is situational? What? Unless the enemy has somehow banned out/picked Vayne, Kog, Trist, Corki he's godlike in the right hands. Karthus is situational? What? Highest Sustained magic DPS in the game. One of the best passives in the game. I have been waiting for Karthus damage nerfs for a long time. :smalltongue:

[ex cathedra]

Neither of them have hard CC and they both get countered by Morgana. :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

Morgana, Zilean, and Karthus are all really good. /argument

The reason TF isn't considered strong the way the above three are is because he can't contribute to a teamfight the way they can. He forces his team into a ganksquad/splitpush strategy.

[Dogmantra]

Can anyone recommend me a good AP carry to look into? Someone who can snowball and make up for a bad team. The only characters I really feel comfortable playing in pvp are Ashe, Janna, and occasionally Lux. Ashe is weak until really late game at which point a bad team will have already cost me the match, Janna is fun but can't carry and support isn't really my thing anyways, and Lux, while cool, is just not that great. Gragas looks like fun and Morgana looks really op (especially with that spell shield) but I'm warry of buying anymore characters without trying them first. I'm looking for an AP carry because at my elo most people seem to go AD and I always try to fill missing gaps on my team (see Janna) but I'm interested in any fun champ who I can master and win games with.

ACCORDING TO MY TIER LIST
Galio is the second best character in the game, build him AP and he's like old AP Cow, he never dies when he's ulting (which is the only time he should be being attacked).
Kennen is amazing and very under-rated (or is he even under-rated?). He's got this wonderful playstyle matched in fun only by Teemo and Ezreal (MATCHED ONLY IN FUN BY TEEMO AND EZREAL YEAH I WENT THERE ELD)
Cho'Gath can be built AP and is very strong (though you'll want to be ubertank)
Teemo deals tons of magic damage, but isn't really an AP carry.
Then there's Malzahar who is great and basically autowins lanes.


Also, Reina, what with how much defending of Riot you've been doing, you'd think they were paying you. :smallwink:

[Darth Mario]

Also, Reina, what with how much defending of Riot you've been doing, you'd think they were paying you. :smallwink:

Our top story:

Riot Sending Shills To Minor Gaming Forums To Silence Opposition With Reason And Insight
More at 11.

[Lix Lorn]

In other news, random fangirl gets bored and makes a champion based on Nikasaur! More on page 6, transcript on page 12 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qEQKflBdJ_RLFXmstUPL-BXzVklM8GT9qJTV6vlCVto/edit?hl=en_GB).

[Shades of Gray]

Speaking of that Evelyn page, I just noticed that the recommended items on the site list the gold cost for completion (Boots of Mobility, for example, is listed as 650.) I think it would be much more useful if it listed the total gold cost (Boots of Mobility being listed as 1000 gold)

Would this be a possibility, Reina?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I would also like to point out we are always hiring. :smalltongue:

Actually, that's something I'd love to ask a few questions about. I'm about to graduate (lost a year in transfers, damnit) with a Computer Science major (focused in C++ programming, mainly) with a smattering of classes in group & social psychology, economics, marketing, and digital art and, while I'm not specifically aiming at Riot (although that would definitely be awesome), I wondered if you had any advice to offer on what that sort of company is looking for.

Ideally I'd like to be either a designer/programmer (conceptual design guy or actual programmer...while being part of a champion design team [for example] sounds really badass, I do enjoy the programming aspect of things) or some sort of community-focused idea guy, as I consider myself decent at the former and I have a lot of practice with community-focused operations (As the admin of the GitP TF2 server for a couple years, running our Mumble thing, and being the #2 guy in LoL University for a while, among others).

What of that would Riot (or a place like Riot) be interested in? What else would such a resume need to show on it to get their attention?

If you know, of course. And thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

[toasty]

Neither of them have hard CC and they both get countered by Morgana. :smalltongue:

I think MathMage has actually stated that Zilean v Morg is a matchup that he prefers. :smalltongue: Karthus shouldn't be dying to Morgana. That's the reason I don't really like Morgana: she is a mage that, unless she can land her Stun will probably never kill you. Karthus land his spells in a fight is easy. Zilean has no skill shots.

[efdf]

Well, when Morg hits 6 it's fairly easy to just walk up and ult and bind them when the stun hits, her laning kill potential is fairly good.

[Math_Mage]

I think MathMage has actually stated that Zilean v Morg is a matchup that he prefers. :smalltongue: Karthus shouldn't be dying to Morgana. That's the reason I don't really like Morgana: she is a mage that, unless she can land her Stun will probably never kill you. Karthus land his spells in a fight is easy. Zilean has no skill shots.

More to the point, Zilean's E counters slow skillshots. Early game your bombs do more damage than she can sustain; even mid-game with Black Shield you can bring her down as long as you have blue and have some kind of gank protection (wards OP). You can push lane as hard as she can, and you get around to gank faster.

I will say, though, that Morgana can win lane pretty hard with a Flash-Ult-Q-W-Ignite.

[dgnslyr]

Still, bombs are the kind of damage that's easy to shield against, so the damage is relatively easily mitigated. If I were to play Morgana in that match-up, I'd just try to play carefully and farm well, without worrying too hard about harass, because lolshield says no to bombs, or at least mitigates the damage.

[Math_Mage]

Still, bombs are the kind of damage that's easy to shield against, so the damage is relatively easily mitigated. If I were to play Morgana in that match-up, I'd just try to play carefully and farm well, without worrying too hard about harass, because lolshield says no to bombs, or at least mitigates the damage.

That's the thing, though, shield doesn't say no to bombs at all, unless you max E first, and then you can't farm. Shield especially doesn't say no to LOLDOUBLEBOMB.

[dgnslyr]

That's a good point. Assuming Morgana maxes W then E, with one point in Q, and assuming Zilean maxes Q then W, with a point in E, the shield will be two to three ranks behind the bombs, I think. Still, since the bomb damage is inevitable and otherwise unavoidable, I'd say her shield is a pretty efficient "heal" when laning against Zilean. Zilean's bomb damage is blocked by her shield, right? Doublebombing at every opportunity seems rather mana expensive, though, and Morgana's something of a brick in lane, especially with a catalyst. Somehow I'd think that she'd be better at laning against Zilean than most other AP mids, though.

Who does do a good job against Zilean, then?

[toasty]

Well, when Morg hits 6 it's fairly easy to just walk up and ult and bind them when the stun hits, her laning kill potential is fairly good.

This is true. Of course, the counter-play to this is just experience.

I dunno, I'm just not a fan of Morg when there are better poke champions (Gragas, Kennen, Brand) and better utility mages (orianna and Zilean. I don't care what you say Orianna will forever be my favorite mage to have on my team)


I will say, though, that Morgana can win lane pretty hard with a Flash-Ult-Q-W-Ignite.

Meh, your ult is on a lower cooldown isn't it? (especially with Blue buff) Her ult, early game, is actually more valuable because it can serve as initiation. If you trade ults and she blows all summoners, just go force ganks/dragon. Sure, I'm assuming that you can hit your ult at the right time, but still, you shouldn't die. Zil at level 6 with Flash shouldn't die in lane ever. If he does, then he deserved it. (Zil pre-six is another matter altogether).


- Karthus (called this 6 months ago, btw)

I think I realized Karthus was probably OP when I saw Alath0r play him as a solo top for SK gaming a LONG time ago (pre-dreamhack, obviously). Since then, other players have slowly picked him up. I'm honestly shocked that CLG hasn't bothered to learn him yet, since Regi's Karthus/Gragas makes him almost unbannable against CLG. Seeing as Regi might just be the best AP in NA right now, that's a very, very, bad thing.

[tyckspoon]

So, since the forums are hardly the best place to get TF info, is he really as bad as people feel? For some reason, I swear whenever I see his Q land, it hurts so much harder than its base and scaling would suggest.

Very few champions are as bad as community chatter would make you think (maybe Eve and Twitch, but I've seen both of them roll teams near-solo just as well as commonly-considered 'OP' carries.. they're just harder to play correctly to do it with.) The main thing about so-called 'bad' champs seems to be more that they don't fit into the standard solo-queue lineup; TF isn't a natural solo top, he doesn't have the burst combo or sustained damage of most AP carries, and all of the normal AD carries do AD better. You could probably jungle him with new masteries and upcoming jungle change; it sounds like Jungle (Arbitrary champion) will probably be at least viable, and TF should be a pretty decent gank (stun + charged Stacked Deck bonus damage + ludicrously long-range skillshot to try and secure the kill if the target manages to get just out of range of your AAs?)

Basically, his kit's still fine, IMO- even with the change away from global teleport, his ult is still Super Clairvoyance (Support TF should work too if you really want to play him in solo/normals! Clairvoyance + Destiny + Gold Card + passive to help your lane mate outfarm the other side.) He just needs a team that can support the splitpush/poke style he's good at instead of slotting into the generic 'best teamcomp OMG WHY NO BRAND MID GG' mentality you get in a lot of Normal queues.

[Eldariel]

I think MathMage has actually stated that Zilean v Morg is a matchup that he prefers. :smalltongue: Karthus shouldn't be dying to Morgana. That's the reason I don't really like Morgana: she is a mage that, unless she can land her Stun will probably never kill you. Karthus land his spells in a fight is easy. Zilean has no skill shots.

Top teams fancy Kassadin vs. Morgana. That should speak volumes of Morgana's (lack) of ability to shut opposing lanes down.


ACCORDING TO MY TIER LIST
Galio is the second best character in the game, build him AP and he's like old AP Cow, he never dies when he's ulting (which is the only time he should be being attacked).
Kennen is amazing and very under-rated (or is he even under-rated?). He's got this wonderful playstyle matched in fun only by Teemo and Ezreal (MATCHED ONLY IN FUN BY TEEMO AND EZREAL YEAH I WENT THERE ELD)
Cho'Gath can be built AP and is very strong (though you'll want to be ubertank)

...consider yourself deepfrozen.


Very few champions are as bad as community chatter would make you think (maybe Eve and Twitch, but I've seen both of them roll teams near-solo just as well as commonly-considered 'OP' carries.. they're just harder to play correctly to do it with.) The main thing about so-called 'bad' champs seems to be more that they don't fit into the standard solo-queue lineup; TF isn't a natural solo top, he doesn't have the burst combo or sustained damage of most AP carries, and all of the normal AD carries do AD better. You could probably jungle him with new masteries and upcoming jungle change; it sounds like Jungle (Arbitrary champion) will probably be at least viable, and TF should be a pretty decent gank (stun + charged Stacked Deck bonus damage + ludicrously long-range skillshot to try and secure the kill if the target manages to get just out of range of your AAs?)

Basically, his kit's still fine, IMO- even with the change away from global teleport, his ult is still Super Clairvoyance (Support TF should work too if you really want to play him in solo/normals! Clairvoyance + Destiny + Gold Card + passive to help your lane mate outfarm the other side.) He just needs a team that can support the splitpush/poke style he's good at instead of slotting into the generic 'best teamcomp OMG WHY NO BRAND MID GG' mentality you get in a lot of Normal queues.

Eh, that's only half the story. On solo queue levels, every champion can shine, true. But in teamplay (between half-way competent teams), things are very different. That said, for solo queue every champion will probably always be viable simply because people are bad.

And yeah, the community is stupid and lots of champions are constantly underrated, for reasons other than not fitting meta. For instance, Karthus for the last 6 months or so. Community opinion isn't frankly worth anything, currently, until the testing processes become more robust. Three months ago people were crying for buffs to this same Rammus.

[Math_Mage]

Annie does a good job against Morg; flash-Tibbers and she's dead before she can shield.


Meh, your ult is on a lower cooldown isn't it? (especially with Blue buff) Her ult, early game, is actually more valuable because it can serve as initiation. If you trade ults and she blows all summoners, just go force ganks/dragon. Sure, I'm assuming that you can hit your ult at the right time, but still, you shouldn't die. Zil at level 6 with Flash shouldn't die in lane ever. If he does, then he deserved it. (Zil pre-six is another matter altogether).

Eh, I was being more general, not focusing specifically on Morg vs. Zil lane.

[EternalMelon]

Ok guys, so I've decided to never play solo queue again (no reason, I just don't get as much satisfaction out of winning as when I'm with firends/GitPers. And i do try, and I try, and I try.)

So i decided to instead play only/mostly characters that help the team more than one man armies. I never really liked pubstompers or ad carries, but love tanks.

My list:
Jungle Tank: AMUUUUMUUU, Leona (If i can jungle)
Mages: Kennen
Solo Top: Nasus
Supports: A durr
Ad Carries: Ashe

Basically I'm looking for characters that help the team, even if the person behind the keyboard sucks.

[tyckspoon]

I will say, though, that Morgana can win lane pretty hard with a Flash-Ult-Q-W-Ignite.

I was going to say I've never had a problem with this, but then I realized I just favor a lot of champs with dashes/knockbacks/snares, so whenever I've had a Morgana try to pull this on me she just gets bounced back, stuck in place while I briskly walk away, or I sprint out of range.


One more thing TF should be perfectly good at: Assassin/anticarry. He won't roll up an entire teamfight the way a winning Akali or Kat will, but Gate to the champ you want dead, Gold Card, and 2 sec worth of stun should see them dead before they can personally react (works best for AD Fate.) And then you probably need to run away because you don't have the survivability or burst to do it again if the rest of the team turns on you.


Basically I'm looking for characters that help the team, even if the person behind the keyboard sucks.

I suppose he goes under 'Suppports', but I feel Alistar deserves a special callout. Also Maokai for your jungling tank list.

[Math_Mage]

Ok guys, so I've decided to never play solo queue again (no reason, I just don't get as much satisfaction out of winning as when I'm with firends/GitPers. And i do try, and I try, and I try.)

So i decided to instead play only/mostly characters that help the team more than one man armies. I never really liked pubstompers or ad carries, but love tanks.

My list:
Jungle Tank: AMUUUUMUUU, Leona (If i can jungle)
Mages: Kennen
Solo Top: Nasus
Supports: A durr
Ad Carries: Ashe

Basically I'm looking for characters that help the team, even if the person behind the keyboard sucks.

Then step 1 is to get your support list up from "A durr" to "Freaking everyone." Soraka, Taric, Sona, and Alistar in particular can always contribute tons to a team if you follow very basic guidelines regarding WARDING EVERYTHING and GETTING YOUR CARRY FARMED/FED (which means setting up zone/harass on the enemy duo so your friend can freefarm or combo with you).

Tanks? Singed and Udyr make for mindlessly easy top lanes against many champions. Garen handles most of the rest.

[Dogmantra]

...consider yourself deepfrozen.
When they make Yordlenivia maybe I'll reconsider.
(hint: I will not reconsider because Anivia smells furthermore she is silly UNLIKE TEEMO)


And yeah, the community is stupid and lots of champions are constantly underrated, for reasons other than not fitting meta. For instance, Karthus for the last 6 months or so. Community opinion isn't frankly worth anything, currently, until the testing processes become more robust. Three months ago people were crying for buffs to this same Rammus.

Galio is just a worse version of Amumu, am I right?

Also, question about Annie, do people consider her to be strong against melee characters in lane? It's just I find she's a rather good matchup against Kennen, who also hates laning against melee counters.

Doubley also, am I the only one who thinks Morgana is a bit rubbish? I play draft and my team is all "ban Morgana" and I'm sat there thinking why should I ban Morgana when you can just sash out of her ult the second she casts it, walk a centimetre to the side and bam, you're not taking any damage from her anymore.

[lord_khaine]

Annie does a good job against Morg; flash-Tibbers and she's dead before she can shield.

Thats not my experience, Cleanse stun away, shield up and ult should pretty often = dead Annie.

Actualy, since i picked her up again i have yet to lose the middle lane fight, at worst there has been draws, but the substain from W really does a lot to keep you in the lane.

[Daverin]

Its all about Vlad against Morgana. :smalltongue:

Or, more specifically, the way it seems to go with every other matchup vs Vlad, where he kind of tries to live pre-9, then all of a sudden can push lane and farm like boss and not fear anything because pool.

How comparable are Vlad and Karthus, btw? Both have a spammable nuke and effectively a sustained self-centered AoE. One is better at escaping and living, one is unusually ok with death. Ults are pretty much beyond comparison though, as they do two different things. Still, fairly sustained casters who are most appreciated in teamfights.

[Math_Mage]

When they make Yordlenivia maybe I'll reconsider.
(hint: I will not reconsider because Anivia smells furthermore she is silly UNLIKE TEEMO)



Galio is just a worse version of Amumu, am I right?

Also, question about Annie, do people consider her to be strong against melee characters in lane? It's just I find she's a rather good matchup against Kennen, who also hates laning against melee counters.

Doubley also, am I the only one who thinks Morgana is a bit rubbish? I play draft and my team is all "ban Morgana" and I'm sat there thinking why should I ban Morgana when you can just sash out of her ult the second she casts it, walk a centimetre to the side and bam, you're not taking any damage from her anymore.

That implies that the entire team has bought a Sash and that Morgana is the only hard CC you'll have to worry about. When she can get in the middle of a fight and ult, it is devastating.

Kennen is squishier than most melee laners. Annie would get zoned pretty hard by Garen at early levels even if she could nuke him down at 6 (which I doubt) because she can't trade effectively. Malphite used to be popular against her mid.

I haven't played Annie much, but I haven't found any matchups she's *particularly* strong against. She's good at stomping bad laners into the ground, though.


Thats not my experience, Cleanse stun away, shield up and ult should pretty often = dead Annie.

Actualy, since i picked her up again i have yet to lose the middle lane fight, at worst there has been draws, but the substain from W really does a lot to keep you in the lane.

Oh, right, Cleanse removes Ignite now. Well, that helps Morgana survive lane. Also shield helps against Q harass.

[Dogmantra]

That implies that the entire team has bought a Sash

Not necessarily. The tanky guys who can survive being stunned for a couple of seconds are fine, and people with Cleanse can skip it too, so let's say three sashes. That's what, 4500-ish gold total to almost entirely shut down one of their players? Sure. I'd do that then ban someone who has a bigger impact.

As for the bit about her being the only hard CC... ehh, if you can survive someone else's stun, then you suck it up and use the QSS on Morgana's ult. If you can't survive it and you don't use the QSS then you die anyway, both times she's not done anything. It only comes into play if you get hit with hard CC which you can't survive and then you do use your QSS, but a good amount of time, her ultimate will be initiation, I don't think it comes up particularly often, and if they have that much CC you should probably also get a BVeil (or run Cleanse if it's draft)

[Mutant Bunny]

Well, I just did my first PvP as Janna, went mid vs Lux. Game went well, except for our jungler, a warwick who, in addition to lagging terribly, built Wriggles... followed by Zerkers, then Stark's Fervor and two more vamp sceptres :smallconfused:

he was level 12 when we were all 18. We somehow managed to force a surrender (may have helped that a Shaco with Bloodthirster and a Phantom Dancer is a very good target for Janna's shield) :smallbiggrin:

ETA: in my limited experience, Morgana rarely wins her lane, but loses it just as rarely. She can sustain her way through most harass, but can't harass very well unless the enemy is stupid.

[toasty]

Not necessarily. The tanky guys who can survive being stunned for a couple of seconds are fine, and people with Cleanse can skip it too, so let's say three sashes. That's what, 4500-ish gold total to almost entirely shut down one of their players? Sure. I'd do that then ban someone who has a bigger impact.

As for the bit about her being the only hard CC... ehh, if you can survive someone else's stun, then you suck it up and use the QSS on Morgana's ult. If you can't survive it and you don't use the QSS then you die anyway, both times she's not done anything. It only comes into play if you get hit with hard CC which you can't survive and then you do use your QSS, but a good amount of time, her ultimate will be initiation, I don't think it comes up particularly often, and if they have that much CC you should probably also get a BVeil (or run Cleanse if it's draft)

What I read: Dog thinks that everyone should buy QQS

[Lix Lorn]

When they make Yordlenivia maybe I'll reconsider.
(hint: I will not reconsider because Anivia smells furthermore she is silly UNLIKE TEEMO)
YOU ARE NO LONGER MY FRIEND :smallfurious:

:smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

What I read: Dog thinks that everyone should buy QQS
More along the lines of me wanting my team-mates to not say LOL when I don't ban Morgana and tell them "if her ult is an issue, get a QSS"... once I had someone say, and I kid you not "what's that?".


YOU ARE NO LONGER MY FRIEND :smallfurious:

:smallbiggrin:
IT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE.
I will prove it with logic.
Okay, so Yordles are bipedal. They're also sometimes engineers. Androids are bipedal, and they're designed by engineers. Androids are a type of robot. Remember this bit.
Anivia is a bird. Birds build nests. Frequently, these nests are located in trees.

And as we all know, robots are better than trees.
Q
E
D

[Math_Mage]

Not necessarily. The tanky guys who can survive being stunned for a couple of seconds are fine, and people with Cleanse can skip it too, so let's say three sashes. That's what, 4500-ish gold total to almost entirely shut down one of their players? Sure. I'd do that then ban someone who has a bigger impact.

As for the bit about her being the only hard CC... ehh, if you can survive someone else's stun, then you suck it up and use the QSS on Morgana's ult. If you can't survive it and you don't use the QSS then you die anyway, both times she's not done anything. It only comes into play if you get hit with hard CC which you can't survive and then you do use your QSS, but a good amount of time, her ultimate will be initiation, I don't think it comes up particularly often, and if they have that much CC you should probably also get a BVeil (or run Cleanse if it's draft)

Morg ults for initiation are actually relatively rare these days. They're more commonly used as midfight disruptors.

[Fredaintdead]

IT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE.
I will prove it with logic.
Okay, so Yordles are bipedal. They're also sometimes engineers. Androids are bipedal, and they're designed by engineers. Androids are a type of robot. Remember this bit.
Anivia is a bird. Birds build nests. Frequently, these nests are located in trees.

And as we all know, robots are better than trees.
Q
E
D

And with equal logic, I will now prove that Anivia is better than Yordles.
Okay, so, Anivia is a bird. Eagles are birds. And Eagles swoop down out of the sky on their prey like deadly aerial ninjas. Therefore Anivia is an Ice-Ninja. Therefore she is Sub-Zero.

And as we all know Sub-Zero is better than robots.

Q
E
D

:smalltongue:
I am 100% just messing with you Dog. But Anivia is still better than Yordles.

[Adumbration]

Morg ults for initiation are actually relatively rare these days. They're more commonly used as midfight disruptors.

Yup. If you want to initiate a teamfight, use Q. 1v1, though, ulti is a beast initiation (automatic hit on Q, full W damage).

[Eldariel]

When they make Yordlenivia maybe I'll reconsider.
(hint: I will not reconsider because Anivia smells furthermore she is silly UNLIKE TEEMO)

Hard to smell with a frozen nose.


Galio is just a worse version of Amumu, am I right?

Yeah. Though, amusingly enough, right now Amumu is ridiculously underrated (in the wake of the "RAMMUS OMG" FOTM).


Doubley also, am I the only one who thinks Morgana is a bit rubbish? I play draft and my team is all "ban Morgana" and I'm sat there thinking why should I ban Morgana when you can just sash out of her ult the second she casts it, walk a centimetre to the side and bam, you're not taking any damage from her anymore.

I think she's good but not as overpowering as people are making her out to be. I like playing Morg but I wouldn't pick her invariably over alternatives. Tons of other Mages offer stuff she doesn't.

[Mtg_player_zach]

More along the lines of me wanting my team-mates to not say LOL when I don't ban Morgana and tell them "if her ult is an issue, get a QSS"... once I had someone say, and I kid you not "what's that?".





The problem with QSS is that it has no health to it. For MR when you already have health, FON is better especially since FON gives movespeed. If you are buying QSS for the active- which you would be, you should just run Cleanse instead. I'd rather have an extra useful item slot and take cleanse over some other summoner than take QSS, almost always. BV and FON will always be better in my opinion.

Plus QSS would go in the item slot that Reverie goes in. And my mouse is dumb and I can only fit one item slot onto a mouse button, and Reverie>QSS.




Yeah. Though, amusingly enough, right now Amumu is ridiculously underrated (in the wake of the "RAMMUS OMG" FOTM).


I agree, Amumu is still very strong, and is entirely a better version of Galio, (and doesn't take a solo lane!).

[toasty]

The problem with QSS is that it has no health to it. For MR when you already have health, FON is better especially since FON gives movespeed. If you are buying QSS for the active- which you would be, you should just run Cleanse instead. I'd rather have an extra useful item slot and take cleanse over some other summoner than take QSS, almost always. BV and FON will always be better in my opinion.

Plus QSS would go in the item slot that Reverie goes in. And my mouse is dumb and I can only fit one item slot onto a mouse button, and Reverie>QSS.

Two things: I always used 1,2,3 for my active items. I should really figure out how to program my two additional buttons on my fancy new mouse though. :smallbiggrin:

Second of all: QQS is still the only counter to WW, Malz and Skarner. So yeah, its still very useful.

[Darth Mario]

The problem with QSS is that it has no health to it. For MR when you already have health, FON is better especially since FON gives movespeed. If you are buying QSS for the active- which you would be, you should just run Cleanse instead. I'd rather have an extra useful item slot and take cleanse over some other summoner than take QSS, almost always. BV and FON will always be better in my opinion.

Plus QSS would go in the item slot that Reverie goes in. And my mouse is dumb and I can only fit one item slot onto a mouse button, and Reverie>QSS.

Because 1 and 2 are too hard to reach from a QWER position.


Yeah. Though, amusingly enough, right now Amumu is ridiculously underrated (in the wake of the "RAMMUS OMG" FOTM).

Amumu has been underrated since he stopped being an instaban.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Because 1 and 2 are too hard to reach from a QWER position.


I don't use QWER.

[Darth Mario]

I don't use QWER.

Then rebind to right above whatever you do use.

[Dogmantra]

Hard to smell with a frozen nose.
Dang, you said smell.
this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnZ1_b33Dw)

now I cannot stop associating Anivia with Tom Milsom

what have you DONE TO ME ELD I THINK YOU MADE ME LIKE HER A BIT


Because 1 and 2 are too hard to reach from a QWER position.
Man, even I've rebound R and F to items. There are certainly more keys than you need items.


Second of all: QQS is still the only counter to WW, Malz and Skarner. So yeah, its still very useful.
And Mordekaiser and a whole host of other assorted weird skills that you wouldn't think to use it on until after you die to them the first time when you have a QSS.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Then rebind to right above whatever you do use.

Those are my summoners. Though, I might be able to poke around with things. F and C could have some potential.

[9mm]

Yeah. Though, amusingly enough, right now Amumu is ridiculously underrated (in the wake of the "RAMMUS OMG" FOTM).


mostly due to the "rules of amumu"
First pick amumu will never be supported when he initiates
Last pick amumu will be terrible

And Ram Ram is FOTM because he got buffed twice and can ignore wards.

[tribble]

Two things: I always used 1,2,3 for my active items. I should really figure out how to program my two additional buttons on my fancy new mouse though. :smallbiggrin:

Second of all: QQS is still the only counter to WW, Malz and Skarner. So yeah, its still very useful.

There's something magical about hearing Master Yi complain about cleanse not getting him out of infinite duress. It's like the Anti-skarner-who-drags-people-out-of-infinite-duress.

I know I'm late to the party on the nikasaur champ, but that passive is OP as (-HERETICAL CONTENT-). Did the fan realise that in DOTA (yes I know there are differences but bear with me) JUST the mana portion of that passive was an actual skill that had to be leveled on a certain character?

How does rammus ignore wards? I mean, I get that powerball is outrageously fast, but it's not THAT fast...is it?

[Math_Mage]

How does rammus ignore wards? I mean, I get that powerball is outrageously fast, but it's not THAT fast...is it?

What used to happen was, if Rammus was Balling towards you, you could drop a ward in his path, and if he pathed through it before it went invisible, it counted as a collision and would break his Powerball. That doesn't happen anymore.

EDIT: Wait, actually, I don't know if they actually changed that. And yeah, Rammus can be so outrageously fast that a simple brush ward won't help. He has to charge up the Powerball before going in, is all.

[Lix Lorn]

I know I'm late to the party on the nikasaur champ, but that passive is OP as (-HERETICAL CONTENT-). Did the fan realise that in DOTA (yes I know there are differences but bear with me) JUST the mana portion of that passive was an actual skill that had to be leveled on a certain character?
Was it? What would you suggest to make it better?
(never played DOTA)

[Math_Mage]

Was it? What would you suggest to make it better?
(never played DOTA)

*cough* I disagree with tribble. See, in DotA base mana regen was MUCH MUCH WORSE than in LoL, so mana regen abilities were much more valuable.

I think the ult duration is a little long, though. And DAT DASH and DAT STUN combined make her almost Irelia/Xin 2.0, with the caveat that her CDs are longer.

[dgnslyr]

The numbers seem kinda high for a global passive. Maybe if it only applied to nearby allies, herself exclusive. After all, the happiness fuel boosted regeneration would naturally always be applied to her, so it would be reflected in her base stats.

[9mm]

How does rammus ignore wards? I mean, I get that powerball is outrageously fast, but it's not THAT fast...is it?

Unless you ward the jungle entrances, you won't have enough reaction time. Granted at one time he was fast enough that warding the entrances didn't give you enough warning either. Simply put, powerball means you need multiple wards to actually see him coming instead of quick glimpses of him.

[Dogmantra]

Was it? What would you suggest to make it better?
(never played DOTA)

Her keys are wonky too.
Eternity Claw should be Q, Aeon Leap should be E and Scales of Ages should be W.

[LordShotGun]

Actually, that's something I'd love to ask a few questions about. I'm about to graduate (lost a year in transfers, damnit) with a Computer Science major (focused in C++ programming, mainly) with a smattering of classes in group & social psychology, economics, marketing, and digital art and, while I'm not specifically aiming at Riot (although that would definitely be awesome), I wondered if you had any advice to offer on what that sort of company is looking for.

Ideally I'd like to be either a designer/programmer (conceptual design guy or actual programmer...while being part of a champion design team [for example] sounds really badass, I do enjoy the programming aspect of things) or some sort of community-focused idea guy, as I consider myself decent at the former and I have a lot of practice with community-focused operations (As the admin of the GitP TF2 server for a couple years, running our Mumble thing, and being the #2 guy in LoL University for a while, among others).

What of that would Riot (or a place like Riot) be interested in? What else would such a resume need to show on it to get their attention?

If you know, of course. And thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

This sounds exactly like what I am doing and in fact as I have said before, currently one of the classes I am taking has a riot employee in it. (real name chris but I never got his internet name and he works under ezreal in the testing and balance portions of the game).

[Lix Lorn]

*cough* I disagree with tribble. See, in DotA base mana regen was MUCH MUCH WORSE than in LoL, so mana regen abilities were much more valuable.

I think the ult duration is a little long, though. And DAT DASH and DAT STUN combined make her almost Irelia/Xin 2.0, with the caveat that her CDs are longer.
Her dash was based on Graves, her stun on Irelia. Her armor was vaguely based on Wuju Style. Her ult is an ungodly fusion of Tibbers and Xerath's ult, with Riven standing as precedent.
I can lower Ult duration. Should I lower the dash and/or stuns numbers a bit?


The numbers seem kinda high for a global passive. Maybe if it only applied to nearby allies, herself exclusive. After all, the happiness fuel boosted regeneration would naturally always be applied to her, so it would be reflected in her base stats.
I reckon it should apply to her, but making it an area thing seems fair.


Her keys are wonky too.
Eternity Claw should be Q, Aeon Leap should be E and Scales of Ages should be W.
Okay, but why?

[Dogmantra]

Okay, but why?

It's just typical champion design. If you look at similar characters, like Xin Zhao, their closers are on E, defensive/utility abilities are on W and single target CC/damage goes on Q.

There are some exceptions (Jax has wonky keys, Lee Sin's dash to enemies is a secondary part of Q instead of part of his E) but generally that's how things work.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Okay, but why?

That I can tell you in one word. Tradition! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw)

[tribble]

Making her passive an aura should probably work out to something more fair. I know the jungle is getting less dangerous every day, but going and adding global hp/mp regen buffing champions is going a bit far IMHO.

[Daverin]

That I can tell you in one word. Tradition! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw)

TRAADITIONN!!! :smalltongue:

So, something just crossed my mind. A new pair of boots, which either grant AD or ArPen. Basically, since the inclusion of Ionians, AP has had both damage increase and rate increase, AND had defensive boots against them, while AD only has rate increase AND defensive boots against them. Would it just be too much to have ArPen boots, too little, or what?

[Lix Lorn]

That I can tell you in one word. Tradition! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw)
Well I can't argue with that!
Changed!

In other news, I just tried Carry!Sona in a bot game. I opened with meji+pots, went Tear, sheen, zeal, Trinity, Manamune, Ionians (Shoulda got berserkers) and then a BFS that was going to be a black cleaver.

I started bot, and then our Ashe DCd. I said 'someone should go mid' as the enemy bots started attacking. Our Teemo went 'okay, I will.' Two seconds later I got first blood and he said 'no u'

So I was carry!mid!Sona.

I proceeded to go 25/2/12.

I am never looking back.
Any advice on the build though?
Also, I focussed Q from habit, but I think I SHOULD have gone QWE, and then R>W>E>Q.

[Todasmile]

In other news, I just tried Carry!Sona in a bot game. I opened with meji+pots, went Tear, sheen, zeal, Trinity, Manamune, Ionians (Shoulda got berserkers) and then a BFS that was going to be a black cleaver.


Where did this come from, anyways? Not Carry Sona, but the _____!_____ format.

Also Sona best champ always win lane never loss.

[Lix Lorn]

Where did this come from, anyways? Not Carry Sona, but the _____!_____ format.

Also Sona best champ always win lane never loss.
I have no idea. I first saw it in fanfiction contests, where you might have, for example a Naruto fic labeled as Dark!female!powerful!Naruto x good!young!Hyuuga!Itachi

[Math_Mage]

I have no idea. I first saw it in fanfiction contests, where you might have, for example a Naruto fic labeled as Dark!female!powerful!Naruto x good!young!Hyuuga!Itachi

...

...

...

My brain just fell out.

According to my brief perusal of Wiki's article on the exclamation point, there may be a technical derivation from IRC hostmasks using an exclamation point to separate nicknames from idents, but fanfiction is the explicit source.

[TechnOkami]

That I can tell you in one word. Tradition! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw)

Fiddlesticks... on the roof!!

[Tychris1]

He's draining the chickens, dark winding the fields, and of course CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWing in the town square while he plays the devil went down to Georgia on his fiddle.

[Eurus]

I have no idea. I first saw it in fanfiction contests, where you might have, for example a Naruto fic labeled as Dark!female!powerful!Naruto x good!young!Hyuuga!Itachi

Someone should write this. :smallamused:

[Draken]

Considering that Lix saw something labeled as such, someone in fact, did.

[9mm]

So TSM vs CLG has TSM packing 4 summoner heals + soraka, vlad, and sona. Lawl.

[ex cathedra]

So TSM vs CLG has TSM packing 4 summoner heals + soraka, vlad, and sona. Lawl.

Dude summoner heal Vlad heals for like 1khp. What *is* that?

[Arbitrarity]

Dude summoner heal Vlad heals for like 1khp. What *is* that?

Tides of Blood stacks. Increases healing and regen.

[Math_Mage]

So TSM vs CLG has TSM packing 4 summoner heals + soraka, vlad, and sona. Lawl.

Regi found out how strong Soraka is just today from playing her. He doesn't even like it--he says it's boring as hell--but can't deny it's effective. Soraka + Vlad = double WotA; combine that with Sona auras and they can just walk over the enemy with sustained DPS. Plus Sona is one of two supports that really works well with Trist, the other being Alistar.

EDIT: The weakness of their comp, as they're discovering, is lack of initiation. I wonder if Chaox plays a good Ashe...or if OddOne plays a good mummy.

EDIT2: Also, CLG has their own double WotA in Ryze+Kennen.

[Joran]

Regi found out how strong Soraka is just today from playing her. He doesn't even like it--he says it's boring as hell--but can't deny it's effective. Soraka + Vlad = double WotA; combine that with Sona auras and they can just walk over the enemy with sustained DPS. Plus Sona is one of two supports that really works well with Trist, the other being Alistar.

EDIT: The weakness of their comp, as they're discovering, is lack of initiation. I wonder if Chaox plays a good Ashe...or if OddOne plays a good mummy.

Err... Isn't Sona good initiation? Or do they need another source of initiation?

[Math_Mage]

Err... Isn't Sona good initiation? Or do they need another source of initiation?

Sona is counter-initiation, which isn't quite the same thing. If she tries to start a fight by landing stun, for example, Blitz will just pull her and she'll get team-instagibbed.

I mean, just listen to Regi. At this point he almost wants to get pulled because it's the best way for TSM to engage. But now CLG's teamfight is coming to the fore. Their comp is tons better at focusing people down, thanks to dual AP and loads of single-target CC.

[toasty]

Regi found out how strong Soraka is just today from playing her. He doesn't even like it--he says it's boring as hell--but can't deny it's effective. Soraka + Vlad = double WotA; combine that with Sona auras and they can just walk over the enemy with sustained DPS. Plus Sona is one of two supports that really works well with Trist, the other being Alistar.

EDIT: The weakness of their comp, as they're discovering, is lack of initiation. I wonder if Chaox plays a good Ashe...or if OddOne plays a good mummy.

EDIT2: Also, CLG has their own double WotA in Ryze+Kennen.

Oddone hates Amumu. However, with the advent of Malphite becoming stronger in the jungle . . .

Chaox on Ashe, meh, he hasn't play Ashe since Gamescom, AFAIK.

[Eldariel]

Kinda curious decision to have Chauster on Blitz and Doublelift on AD when you have the world's best Blitz-player and last I checked, Chauster was pretty good on AD.

[ex cathedra]

Tides of Blood stacks. Increases healing and regen.

I understand how it works, I just thought that it was a bit outrageous. :smalltongue:

[9mm]

So Saint just compared Fizz shark to Ashe arrow; interesting.



Kinda curious decision to have Chauster on Blitz and Doublelift on AD when you have the world's best Blitz-player and last I checked, Chauster was pretty good on AD.
probably getting chauster used to being double's support.

[Math_Mage]

That's cuz Chauster is supposed to be learning to play support and Doublelift is supposed to be learning to play AD carry. It's a scrim, they don't have to bring their A game.

[Eldariel]

I understand how it works, I just thought that it was a bit outrageous. :smalltongue:

Yeh, Vlad with Heal is soo hilarious for solo queue. Dat Heal Bait. Enemy goes for the kill, you go "HAHA, 1k extra HP plzkthx!"

[Eurus]

Oh man, wouldn't "extra % healing" runes be trolltastic? :smallbiggrin:

[Mutant Bunny]

Oh man, wouldn't "extra % healing" runes be trolltastic? :smallbiggrin:

They do have the % regen masteries in the utility tree. That'd be an interesting addition to the Yellows.

[Math_Mage]

Holy. Balls.

Chauster plays support Zilean...buys no starting item, just wards and pots...harasses Vayne/Taric so hard they get denied practically from level 1...takes tower at like 6 minutes and TSM surrenders the scrim (because all lanes lost).

Pink ward in lane brush, OP as hell.

[TechnOkami]

Question.

If someone were to get the super size me buff in Dominion and then use Surge, would they become twice as big?

If so, I want to see this on Cho.

[sucatraps]

It's just typical champion design. If you look at similar characters, like Xin Zhao, their closers are on E, defensive/utility abilities are on W and single target CC/damage goes on Q.

There are some exceptions (Jax has wonky keys, Lee Sin's dash to enemies is a secondary part of Q instead of part of his E) but generally that's how things work.

I feel Alistar should have his Q and W switched.

[Math_Mage]

I feel Alistar should have his Q and W switched.

Canonically he would have his E and W switched, actually. Gap closers are usually E, utility is usually W, and heals especially are usually W.

[sucatraps]

As a player who plays mainly Nasus and Jax, I always like my gapclosers on Q, and my on-hits on W. No gapcloser? Now the on-hits go on Q.

But I guess that is just me. And Elementz :P

[Math_Mage]

As a player who plays mainly Nasus and Jax, I always like my gapclosers on Q, and my on-hits on W. No gapcloser? Now the on-hits go on Q.

But I guess that is just me. And Elementz :P

Other champs with gap closers on Q or W: Jax, Lee Sin, Amumu, Irelia, Rammus, *maybe* Riven and Garen and Blitz count, and that's allowing MS effects as well as dashes/blinks. That's a tiny minority compared to the blinks/dashes/gapclosers on either W or E.

[Douglas]

Question.

If someone were to get the super size me buff in Dominion and then use Surge, would they become twice as big?

If so, I want to see this on Cho.
Surge makes you bigger?

...

I need to redo my size test. Cho'gath without Surge can already cover an entire control point, how much bigger does Surge make him?:smalleek:

[Cute_Riolu]

So, I'm looking for advice going against a Taric/Vayne lane. I just got owned by one in ranked. :/

[balistafreak]

So, I'm looking for advice going against a Taric/Vayne lane. I just got owned by one in ranked. :/


Holy. Balls.

Chauster plays support Zilean...buys no starting item, just wards and pots...harasses Vayne/Taric so hard they get denied practically from level 1...takes tower at like 6 minutes and TSM surrenders the scrim (because all lanes lost).

Pink ward in lane brush, OP as hell.

:smallamused:

[Cute_Riolu]

:smallamused:

That doesn't help when you aren't support Zilean!

[sucatraps]

Well, standing anywhere near a wall means Stun+Tumble+Condemn will almost always kill you or force a summoner.

[Eldariel]

So, I'm looking for advice going against a Taric/Vayne lane. I just got owned by one in ranked. :/

Taric/Vayne is a kill lane. Very hard to play against. You generally want range to avoid the combo, and yeah, avoid those walls. Caitlyn, Ezreal and Urgot for instance are all rather safe picks there (though you still can't afford to screw up, obviously). Those that have to get close, like Tristana or Corki, can work but are way riskier (and e.g. Alistar/Trist vs. Taric/Vayne is generally going to lead to kills on one side).

Your support should generally try and remove Vayne from the fight when Taric stuns to avoid the massive DPS combo; Alistar & Janna are both pretty good. Soraka can outlast it but with Soraka support, you need more survivability and avoidance from the AD. Sona works if going offensive with e.g. Cait, Corki or Urgot. As always, Sona is quite the aggressive support, with her surprisingly robust damage and auras.

[TechnOkami]

Why I find myself coming back to Solo Queue
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/MoCho.png?t=1322476574
Despite our lack of a Renekton, we still managed to kick ass and take names.

I need to play more Cho'Gath.

:smallcool:

[Math_Mage]

So, I'm looking for advice going against a Taric/Vayne lane. I just got owned by one in ranked. :/

Point 1 is to always, always maintain brush control with a ward in lane. You DO NOT WANT Taric camping your brush. The rest is more general.

Harass support (Zilean, Janna, Sona): Use your harass to burn through Taric's mana and pots.
Disruption support (Janna, Alistar, Leona, Taric*): Whenever your carry is incapacitated, go incapacitate their carry to minimize the combo potential. Whenever your carry can get off harass, use your disruption to make it free harass.
Sustain support (Sona, Soraka): Keep your carry healthy and avoid trading. Pokes from outside their kill range are fine.

*This is clearly a normal game so do whatever you want.

[Dogmantra]

support support support

(helpful hint: if it's Taric/Vayne you're against, which is in my opinion the second strongest lane possible [Alistar/Blitz being the best], then you might want to consider a double mage lane or similar, something nice and aggressive that lets you stop them farming and lets your carry get farm in a solo, it's no use blindly following the meta if it means you lose, alternately get a Cho'Gath or a Nasus or a Kennen or someone else who can 2v1 like nobody's business then just duo top or mid)

[Darth Mario]

Another option is simply banning Taric. He's certainly banworthy nowadays.

[term1nally s1ck]

Ehhh, sona is stronger.

[Reinboom]

Actually, that's something I'd love to ask a few questions about. I'm about to graduate (lost a year in transfers, damnit) with a Computer Science major (focused in C++ programming, mainly) with a smattering of classes in group & social psychology, economics, marketing, and digital art and, while I'm not specifically aiming at Riot (although that would definitely be awesome), I wondered if you had any advice to offer on what that sort of company is looking for.

Ideally I'd like to be either a designer/programmer (conceptual design guy or actual programmer...while being part of a champion design team [for example] sounds really badass, I do enjoy the programming aspect of things) or some sort of community-focused idea guy, as I consider myself decent at the former and I have a lot of practice with community-focused operations (As the admin of the GitP TF2 server for a couple years, running our Mumble thing, and being the #2 guy in LoL University for a while, among others).

What of that would Riot (or a place like Riot) be interested in? What else would such a resume need to show on it to get their attention?

If you know, of course. And thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

Note 1 (General and Riot especially):
Do something. This can be for work or for play, as long as it gets completed, is related to what you want to do, and is awesome.
I was looked at because of that shop I did and hired because of my contract experience as well as my Civilization 4 modding.

Xypherous was hired because of his work on the most popular large Diablo 2 mod.

Guinsoo was hired for taking a WC3 map that was already fun and making it incredible / tournament scene ready. ( :smallwink: )

Phreak was a pro WC3 player as well as a well known shoutcaster.

The ability to finish awesome things or do awesome things is seriously the most important thing you can use to try to get a job here.


Note 2 (Riot specific):
Focus, at least a bit. To give you a heads up, you mentioned two very distinct and very separate jobs of interest. A programmer/designer would be a role attributed most closely to Technical Designers. The community-focused is a community specialist. These two roles are VERY separate.

Pick the one of these two you want the most, and aim for that. While being phone screened or during an interview, the people you would interview with are the people that work directly in the field you're interested in.
Since the live interview here is 6 to 8 hours long, interest in you will decline if you 'require' two separate interviews.


Note 3 (General, not Riot):
When you're looking for a job in the vast majority of the game companies... do NOT try to "just get a foot in the door" by taking the path of QA.
In many companies, QA is regarded as "intelligent monkies" or pure bug reporters. Most game companies look upon the majority of the QA folks as all just people trying to get their foot in the door, and because of this... never let them go further than that. They carefully segregate QA from developers and designers in most cases.
Eventually, by becoming a senior QA after many years of work, you can start to work more closely with developers. However... even then it's a distinct segregation.

The only thing QA provides you is work experience. It does not provide you work experience for the skill you wish to emphasize though (unless you really like finding bugs).


Note 4 (Riot specific):
(Only mentioning this to give what the alternative to note 3 is)
This (QA, see Note 3) is very different at Riot. QAs are embedded in the
development teams and us developers love our trolls QA. This allows much more room to grow.

However! being a QA at Riot takes a significant amount extra background. Their are two QA people on my team. One needed a bachelors in computer engineering and then required an internship. The other was a senior QA who was trying to get out of EA and has a decade of work experience behind him.


Note 5 (General, specific to the programming role):
Try to understand software development process and time management, preferably try to organize a team that works within a development driven model of some kind.

As a developer, you don't need to know this inside and out (like a producer would) before arriving here but it is a massive boon given the speed of standard development cycles.


Note 6 (General, not Riot):
For most game companies, notably those that are not iterative (so most AAA title companies), it's important to remember: You will be fired/let go. There are multiple reasons for this. Just take the experience you've earned from that company and move on / now show that you have a reference or few.
Since most game companies look at what work you did rather than how you were let go (they all know the hire -> 6 months -> fire standard so they ignore the conditions of the job release), this shouldn't be a deterrent. Just... make sure you expect it.

Also, since the work is more meaningful than the who for or the conditions of your release, this also gives wake to perhaps the easiest way to get a step in a door...


Note 7 (General):
Indie companies are the easiest way to get a foot in to the door if you want to be a developer. Especially if they actually finish a game. :smalltongue:




I hope that helps. Also, sorry if this is too far off topic.

[Dogmantra]

Another option is simply banning Taric. He's certainly banworthy nowadays.

But that's not nearly controversial enough.

[Winthur]

But that's not nearly controversial enough.

I remind you that banning him would be in the eyes of the LoL community a ban on the token sexual minority member. :smalltongue:

[Lix Lorn]

Someone should write this. :smallamused:


Considering that Lix saw something labeled as such, someone in fact, did.
Haha, I didn't actually see THAT, it was just the best silly example I could think of.
That said, it probably exists.


Canonically he would have his E and W switched, actually. Gap closers are usually E, utility is usually W, and heals especially are usually W.
It makes me laugh that this is a thing.

[Cute_Riolu]

Note 1 (General and Riot especially):
Do something. This can be for work or for play, as long as it gets completed, is related to what you want to do, and is awesome.
I was looked at because of that shop I did and hired because of my contract experience as well as my Civilization 4 modding.

Xypherous was hired because of his work on the most popular large Diablo 2 mod.

Guinsoo was hired for taking a WC3 map that was already fun and making it incredible / tournament scene ready. ( :smallwink: )

Phreak was a pro WC3 player as well as a well known shoutcaster.

The ability to finish awesome things or do awesome things is seriously the most important thing you can use to try to get a job here.


Note 2 (Riot specific):
Focus, at least a bit. To give you a heads up, you mentioned two very distinct and very separate jobs of interest. A programmer/designer would be a role attributed most closely to Technical Designers. The community-focused is a community specialist. These two roles are VERY separate.

Pick the one of these two you want the most, and aim for that. While being phone screened or during an interview, the people you would interview with are the people that work directly in the field you're interested in.
Since the live interview here is 6 to 8 hours long, interest in you will decline if you 'require' two separate interviews.


Note 3 (General, not Riot):
When you're looking for a job in the vast majority of the game companies... do NOT try to "just get a foot in the door" by taking the path of QA.
In many companies, QA is regarded as "intelligent monkies" or pure bug reporters. Most game companies look upon the majority of the QA folks as all just people trying to get their foot in the door, and because of this... never let them go further than that. They carefully segregate QA from developers and designers in most cases.
Eventually, by becoming a senior QA after many years of work, you can start to work more closely with developers. However... even then it's a distinct segregation.

The only thing QA provides you is work experience. It does not provide you work experience for the skill you wish to emphasize though (unless you really like finding bugs).


Note 4 (Riot specific):
(Only mentioning this to give what the alternative to note 3 is)
This (QA, see Note 3) is very different at Riot. QAs are embedded in the
development teams and us developers love our trolls QA. This allows much more room to grow.

However! being a QA at Riot takes a significant amount extra background. Their are two QA people on my team. One needed a bachelors in computer engineering and then required an internship. The other was a senior QA who was trying to get out of EA and has a decade of work experience behind him.


Note 5 (General, specific to the programming role):
Try to understand software development process and time management, preferably try to organize a team that works within a development driven model of some kind.

As a developer, you don't need to know this inside and out (like a producer would) before arriving here but it is a massive boon given the speed of standard development cycles.


Note 6 (General, not Riot):
For most game companies, notably those that are not iterative (so most AAA title companies), it's important to remember: You will be fired/let go. There are multiple reasons for this. Just take the experience you've earned from that company and move on / now show that you have a reference or few.
Since most game companies look at what work you did rather than how you were let go (they all know the hire -> 6 months -> fire standard so they ignore the conditions of the job release), this shouldn't be a deterrent. Just... make sure you expect it.

Also, since the work is more meaningful than the who for or the conditions of your release, this also gives wake to perhaps the easiest way to get a step in a door...


Note 7 (General):
Indie companies are the easiest way to get a foot in to the door if you want to be a developer. Especially if they actually finish a game. :smalltongue:




I hope that helps. Also, sorry if this is too far off topic.

This is much more helpful than you would think, and thanks a lot for posting it! I'm actually going to bookmark this and go back to it often, as I would absolutely love to get a job at Riot, as they are my favorite company, and unique in the field in a lot of ways. Hope to see you at Riot HQ some time! :D

[ArcanistSupreme]

Another option is simply banning Taric. He's certainly banworthy nowadays.

But after laning phase, I always find him so meh. He has one single target stun that he can maybe get off twice in a team fight, and otherwise he just stands there and provides stats. Maybe it's because I just find him super boring to play, but I'm really not impressed with Taric as a support. Also, speaking of champion abilities being non-traditional, his abilities are all on the wrong keys and it's so annoying...

EDIT: Also, Sona and Soraka can out-heal him, and I always feel like Janna provides more effective health with her shield, and all three of those champs provide buffs with those abilities. Alistar can't out-heal him, but his utility in team fights is way higher and he provides just as much of a threat in lane as Taric. Aside from being fabulous, Taric doesn't bring anything interesting to the table.

[Darth Mario]

But after laning phase, I always find him so meh. He has one single target stun that he can maybe get off twice in a team fight, and otherwise he just stands there and provides stats. Maybe it's because I just find him super boring to play, but I'm really not impressed with Taric as a support. Also, speaking of champion abilities being non-traditional, his abilities are all on the wrong keys and it's so annoying...

EDIT: Also, Sona and Soraka can out-heal him, and I always feel like Janna provides more effective health with her shield, and all three of those champs provide buffs with those abilities. Alistar can't out-heal him, but his utility in team fights is way higher and he provides just as much of a threat in lane as Taric. Aside from being fabulous, Taric doesn't bring anything interesting to the table.

Alistar can actually outheal Taric, in most cases. And personally, I would choose a Soraka or Ali ban over Taric any day, but I was merely making a recommendation to someone who has a particularly hard situation. There are a lot of good supports nowadays, but Taric is probably the strongest agressive support at the moment. Dat stun and armor aura are fantastic bot lane.

[Dogmantra]

It makes me laugh that this is a thing.
It's good game design to create then follow precedents. Bloodline Champions had a consistent trance mechanic (a channeled ability that would do nothing unless you were hit by an attack, then it would absorb the attack and teleport you, stun the attacker, or a whole host of other things). Every trance was on R with one exception, Inhibitor's trance was on E. Every single person I know who played BLC thought that was silly and constantly accidentally hit R when going for the trance. Basically, having consistent keys lets your skill be transferrable between characters to some extent.


But after laning phase, I always find him so meh.
He's so GOOD. Way more of a threat than Soraka after laning, I think. Probably second only to Janna to be honest. Janna's so goooood.

[Darth Mario]

He's so GOOD. Way more of a threat than Soraka after laning, I think. Probably second only to Janna to be honest. Janna's so goooood.

With Janna's current lane being one of the weakest among the common/occasional supports (Alistar, Taric, Soraka, Sona, Janna, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Lux), I think that Taric can probably be called better at this point, unless your team NEEDS the counterinitiation.

[Arbitrarity]

Note 4 (Riot specific):
(Only mentioning this to give what the alternative to note 3 is)
This (QA, see Note 3) is very different at Riot. QAs are embedded in the
development teams and us developers love our trolls QA. This allows much more room to grow.

However! being a QA at Riot takes a significant amount extra background. Their are two QA people on my team. One needed a bachelors in computer engineering and then required an internship. The other was a senior QA who was trying to get out of EA and has a decade of work experience behind him.


Automated QA development is serious business.

[Dogmantra]

With Janna's current lane being one of the weakest among the common/occasional supports (Alistar, Taric, Soraka, Sona, Janna, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Lux), I think that Taric can probably be called better at this point, unless your team NEEDS the counterinitiation.
Her laning ain't great (but it's definitely better than people give her credit for), but out of lane (which is what I specified - or at least intended to specify, I notice now it's a tad unclear) she's pretty much the most threatening in terms of proper support. Heals are for wusses (and ultimates). Most CC of the supports, one of the higher sustained threats, makes everyone better just by being alive (though admittedly Taric and Soraka do too, but they at least have to be there) and is by far the least item dependent of the bunch (doesn't even need boots 2 awww yeah). She's too cool for school. Also shields > Zilean and countering Zilean is a big part of the game (it's to stop people playing him so much and ruining everyone's fun). Also Janna is most suited to saving your team-mates from making mistakes, if they screw up you can probably fix that for them. Try doing that as Sona.

Though if you're going to count Blitzcrank as support obviously none of this applies because Blitzcrank.

[toasty]

Another option is simply banning Taric. He's certainly banworthy nowadays.

Taric is the 2nd worst of the "standard" supports right now, I've come to realize. His redeeming factor is a level 1 ranged, targetable stun. Sona has more burst, Ali has more CC, Soraka has more heal. Janna is worse in laning but 10x better in teamfights. Tarics problem is that he does nothing in teamfights.

If you're afraid of Taric/Vayne pick Caitlyn (ez and urgot work,but so few people play them. :smallsigh:) and just outrange them. Caitlyn+Soraka or Caitlyn+Sona should outsustain them so long as you have bush control.

[term1nally s1ck]

Sona's ulti alone makes her one of the best supports heading later into the game. Taric *does* give a TON of free stats, though, which people always underestimate. That ulti and armor buff are BIG boosts to your team.

Sure, he can't do damage or heal that much, but that's like saying Soraka is useless in teamfights because she does no damage. The free stats are worth at least as much as Raka's healing is, maybe more.

[Arbitrarity]

Sona's ulti alone makes her one of the best supports heading later into the game. Taric *does* give a TON of free stats, though, which people always underestimate. That ulti and armor buff are BIG boosts to your team.

Sure, he can't do damage or heal that much, but that's like saying Soraka is useless in teamfights because she does no damage. The free stats are worth at least as much as Raka's healing is, maybe more.

15/25/35 AD/AP, 30 armor
vs 20 AD/AP, 15 armor/mr, +15 armor/mr to lowest %health person, +MS

Sona's free stats are about as good.

[Qwertystop]

I was looked at because of that shop I did

Is that shop ever going to actually make it into the game?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

With Janna's current lane being one of the weakest among the common/occasional supports (Alistar, Taric, Soraka, Sona, Janna, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Lux), I think that Taric can probably be called better at this point, unless your team NEEDS the counterinitiation.

As an AD carry player, here's my personal support list these days (against the current typical bot lane comps).

Taric
Alistar
Soraka
Janna
Sona

I'll ban Soraka if my team doesn't have her though, as she's really good at protecting her carry, if a bit less good at allowing for kills. Lately I've been in favor of banning Soraka + Alistar/Taric, and early (or first) picking the remaining one of Alistar/Taric, since I think there's more room for AD carry selection than there is room for good support selection. Note that this isn't as viable in a team that isn't aiming for a super-carry playstyle, but I'm a good enough super-carry at the ELO I find myself playing at that it's normally a good choice for my team.

On the side of less "hard" supports (those with sustain and carry protection both) Both Blitzcrank and Nunu are excellent supports, but I want a certain character for each of them. Blitz + Graves or Blitz + Vayne or Blitz + Corki (sometimes Blitz + Tristana, and I guess Blitz + Caitlyn *could* work if I were faster at placing the traps under the victim), and for Nunu I want either Vayne, Kog'Maw, or Tristana.

This has been your look at Djinn's favorite supports for when he's carrying. Move at 11.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Sona's ulti alone makes her one of the best supports heading later into the game. Taric *does* give a TON of free stats, though, which people always underestimate. That ulti and armor buff are BIG boosts to your team.

Sure, he can't do damage or heal that much, but that's like saying Soraka is useless in teamfights because she does no damage. The free stats are worth at least as much as Raka's healing is, maybe more.

Sure, he provides tons of stats, but after he's fired off his stun and popped his ulti, he just sits there. Outside of those numbers, he has very few ways of contributing to a team fight.


As an AD carry player, here's my personal support list these days (against the current typical bot lane comps).

Taric
Alistar
Soraka
Janna
Sona

...

This has been your look at Djinn's favorite supports for when he's carrying. Move at 11.

He's unquestionably great to have in lane, but after the laning phase is over, he's just so boring. Hands down, he's my least favorite support to play, even if I'm terrible with Alistar and only mediocre with Sona and Soraka. And in spite of her sub-par laning, I love me some Janna because she's so fun/useful in team fights.

[Dogmantra]

Sure, he provides tons of stats, but after he's fired off his stun and popped his ulti, he just sits there. Outside of those numbers, he has very few ways of contributing to a team fight.

Build him AD then.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Build him AD then.

But then I'm not playing him as a support, now am I?

[Dogmantra]

If it's the only way you can feel useful what's the problem? It's like complaining that Annie feels useless because you spend all of your money on Executioner's Callings.

Characters are support characters because of their kits not because of what they buy. Stack a ton of AP on Soraka and she still works as a support character. AD Janna can still support fine. Bam. AD Sona is also a thing.

[tribble]

You know, I think support Nunu is underrated because people think, oh, you only boil the carry and then you're done, and that's not really true. Nunu still has a single target permaslow, and if you're getting ignored in a teamfight, you can just press R and smirk as the entire enemy team drops everything (including the carry) to focus you and hopefully get themselves butchered by the rest of your team, or not get focused and hay, gratz on penta.

[Zen Master]

Blitz + Tristana

Hm - now that sounds like a lot of fun. Rocket grab+powerfist+bustershot into tower+rocket jump should be enough to kill basically anyone. And even if not, you're now under the tower with Blitz and Trist, and rocket grab is off CD soon.

Good luck =)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You know, I think support Nunu is underrated because people think, oh, you only boil the carry and then you're done, and that's not really true. Nunu still has a single target permaslow, and if you're getting ignored in a teamfight, you can just press R and smirk as the entire enemy team drops everything (including the carry) to focus you and hopefully get themselves butchered by the rest of your team, or not get focused and hay, gratz on penta.

This is why I want Vayne, Kog'Maw, or Trist when I've got a support Nunu. Vayne and Koggy benefit more than any other AD carry from that increased attack speed (Vayne in particular really hurts early game with that Nunu boost), and Trist loves the slow to be able to close without having to burn Rocket-Jump (allowing her to tower-dive for the finish, get the kill, and RJ out again).

After laning he's not really your support any more, but he shouldn't need to be. Those lanes I mentioned are pretty competent kill lanes, and you should be a LOT more fed and/or farmed than the enemy carry, meaning that if Nunu decides to go for a tanky DPS build or an AP mage build, more power to him.

[ArcanistSupreme]

If it's the only way you can feel useful what's the problem? It's like complaining that Annie feels useless because you spend all of your money on Executioner's Callings.

Characters are support characters because of their kits not because of what they buy. Stack a ton of AP on Soraka and she still works as a support character. AD Janna can still support fine. Bam. AD Sona is also a thing.

Perhaps I should define my terms. In my mind, a support is someone who goes 0 cs and buys 4356347635745 wards every time he or she goes back. Often they will also buy oracle and clear enemy wards while placing the friendly ones.

Now, this character will be very short on funds if played this way, and can either spend his/her trickle of gold on AD/AP items and end up with a completely insignificant amount of damage, or the character can buy gold/10 to better be able to purchase future items. I opt to do the latter. Now that I have a steady gold income, I can either purchase cheap items that benefit the whole team or I can go for more expensive items that will up my damage output. As everyone else likely already has one or two big items and is way ahead of me in terms of armor and damage, I go for aura items.

It really does come down to what items I buy/try to buy in addition to the playstyle. I understand that you can build AP Ashe and on-hit Annie, and occasionally I'll play things like that when smurfing with my low-level buddies, but when I want to win I go for a more optimal set up.

[Darth Mario]

Support is the person who goes bot with the AD carry, unless that person is a roamer instead.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Support is the person who goes bot with the AD carry, unless that person is a roamer instead.

This is pretty much the whole of the definition. The following are all characters who I would consider potential supports (some pairings would be very bizarre or very specific...ask if you're curious). Note that many of these are incredibly sub-optimal, but the point is that they can all fill the role of support one way or another (harass, zoning, healing, carry protection, cc, or so forth). The only thing differentiating most "traditional" supports is this: The best supports don't need farm for their abilities to retain usefulness, and the best supports usually have at least 2 abilities that can directly heal, buff, cc the foe, or protect their allies.

Alistar
Anivia
Annie
Blitzcrank
Cassiopeia
Cho'Gath
Fiddlesticks
Galio
Garen
Janna
Jarvan
Karma
Kayle
Leona
Lux
Malphite
Maokai
Morgana
Nidalee
Nunu
Orianna
Rammus
Ryze
Shaco
Shen
Singed
Sion
Skarner
Sona
Soraka
Swain
Taric
Wukong
Yorick
Zilean

[Lix Lorn]

AD Sona is also a thing.


In other news, I just tried Carry!Sona in a bot game.

>story<

So I was carry!mid!Sona.

I proceeded to go 25/2/12.

I am never looking back.
Any advice on the build though?
Also, I focussed Q from habit, but I think I SHOULD have gone QWE, and then R>W>E>Q.
Anyone? DXD

[ScionoftheVoid]

This is pretty much the whole of the definition. The following are all characters who I would consider potential supports (some pairings would be very bizarre or very specific...ask if you're curious). Note that many of these are incredibly sub-optimal, but the point is that they can all fill the role of support one way or another (harass, zoning, healing, carry protection, cc, or so forth). The only thing differentiating most "traditional" supports is this: The best supports don't need farm for their abilities to retain usefulness, and the best supports usually have at least 2 abilities that can directly heal, buff, cc the foe, or protect their allies.

Alistar
Anivia
Annie
Blitzcrank
Cassiopeia
Cho'Gath
Fiddlesticks
Galio
Garen
Janna
Jarvan
Karma
Kayle
Leona
Lux
Malphite
Maokai
Morgana
Nidalee
Nunu
Orianna
Rammus
Ryze
Shaco
Shen
Singed
Sion
Skarner
Sona
Soraka
Swain
Taric
Wukong
Yorick
Zilean

Spoilered your list so people don't have to scroll past it twice.

As someone who owns Cho, Fiddle, Shaco and Singed, intending to get Maokai, when would you have each of those support and how would they do it? I also own Annie, but think I can guess as to how she's played support.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Support is the person who goes bot with the AD carry, unless that person is a roamer instead.

Perhaps to further clarify, I should add the bolded part of Djinn's definition to mine. But it's not just a character, it's a playstyle and the resulting build (ie a 0 cs support will not finish the game with Deathcap, Rylai's, Voidstaff, Banshee's Veil, and RoA, and should not go into the game assuming that he or she will).

[Baxter190]

So, I've hit 30, and I'm iffy about doing ranked. I've got laptop, but it's terrible FPS and overall lag does me no favors. Should I just wait a couple weeks to get a desktop PC? Any advice for things to look for in a Desktop so I can get 60 FPS?

[Neftren]

Support is the person who goes bot with the AD carry, unless that person is a roamer instead.

Try on some alternative metas instead then!


Meta #1:
- Tank Top (e.g. Shen or Galio)
- Mage Bot (e.g. Kennen or Brand)
- Support+AD Carry Mid (e.g. Taric/Soraka + Caitlyn/Graves/Vayne)
- Bruiser Jungle (e.g. Udyr, Nocturne)

A tanky top can trade harass all day with the opposing bruiser, and also gets a decent bit of farm. A few mages are great at 1v2, and since bot lane is an afk farmfest without jungle intervention, the mages can either harass with their ridiculously long range, or just keep farming. The duo mid is intentionally meant to be a strong pusher lane against mid. Since the support can generally heal through any of the mage mid harass, there's really nothing the mage can do without jungle cover, and even then, mid becomes a 2v2 which only hurts the solo mid mage, while any ganks from the friendly jungler becomes a 3v2, and once mid drops, you free up two people to gank either top or bot, all while still maintaining some element of dragon control.


Meta #2:
- Bruiser Mid (e.g. Gap Closers or Tanky Ranged -- Xin Zhao, Irelia, GP, etc.)
- Mage + Tanky or Support Bot (e.g. Ryze + Blitzcrank)
- Tank w/ CC in Jungle (e.g. Rammus, Nunu)
- Solo Top AD Carry (e.g. Vayne, Graves, Corki, Caitlyn)

This one relies on the fact that a mid lane bruiser can essentially tank through the first burst of damage by the enemy mage, close the gap, and dish out damage, while still getting lots of solo lane farm and XP. Meanwhile, bot lane is going to be miserable for anyone, since one successful pull from Blitz + snare from Ryze is almost a guaranteed kill. The stakes are even better since the jungle ideally has a taunt or some form of additional CC. Bot lane is just going to focus on killing while maintaining decent farm since they're mostly not spamming minions with autoattacks. Meanwhile, top lane exploits the natural weakness of many bruisers being unable to close the gap multiple times in succession. Thus, the AD carry top can just poke away and still farm nicely, without being pushed down by say, Nasus.




Of course, I haven't tried any of these yet (anyone want to give it a go with me?), but they seem fun enough. :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

So, I've hit 30, and I'm iffy about doing ranked. I've got laptop, but it's terrible FPS and overall lag does me no favors. Should I just wait a couple weeks to get a desktop PC? Any advice for things to look for in a Desktop so I can get 60 FPS?

Practice more, if this is your first account to 30 you are most likely not actually ready to play Ranked (unless you're willing to take the chance that you actually suck, lose all your placement games, and get your ELO hammered down to like 800.) If you've been playing Blind Pick Normal it would be a good idea to switch over to Draft to get an idea of how that goes and to figure out if you own enough champs to play effectively against bans and not being able to pick duplicates.

For the computer- what's your budget, are you looking to assemble your own or get something pre-built, and can you order online or do you have to deal with whatever is available at your local Best Buy/Microcenter/Fry's/analogue?

[shadowwalker64]

Tri-lane bot may work in lower ELOs as well (where the carry may not always be so competent as to be able to pick up every single last-hit). Old DOTA tradition was that you'd put a disabler (preferably two) with someone who'd benefit from the champion kills and a roamer, and net a kill as early as possible, later trasitioning into a standard 1-1-2 lane with a roamer. I could see Zilean/Taric/<insert name of AD carry here> working as they would basically have so much damage at level 2 that they would instantly burst down at least one guy. Worst case scenario zilean gets first blood, goes b, buys a philo and boots and goes around ganking some more. The only problem is getting enough exp, but I'm pretty sure that nabbing wolves and blue for the support would do the trick (with the support tanking of course).

[Dogmantra]

Perhaps I should define my terms. In my mind, a support is someone who goes 0 cs and buys 4356347635745 wards every time he or she goes back. Often they will also buy oracle and clear enemy wards while placing the friendly ones.

The game isn't designed to support nofarm characters remaining useful. Everyone has ratios for a reason (even though everyone scales at different speeds). Taric happens to be one of the guys considered to be "support" who needs to scale a bit to stay competitively useful (see also: Zilean, Karma) . Complaining he feels useless without farm feels as wrong to me as complaining Ashe feels useless when you stack Malady.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Spoilered your list so people don't have to scroll past it twice.

As someone who owns Cho, Fiddle, Shaco and Singed, intending to get Maokai, when would you have each of those support and how would they do it? I also own Annie, but think I can guess as to how she's played support.

Cho Support: Obviously Philo Stone and Heart of Gold, Cho can also use Kage's Lucky Pick. He's solid against non-mobile teams and/or with carries with a stun or slow (carry slows, then Rupture to hold them in place). Rupture is great behind-the-minion-line harass, and Feral Scream punishes enemies who try to get close (and can silence those trying to stun/cc your carry). Cho is also great at blocking skill shots and even the ability to target your carry. I think he'd work well with Kog'Maw, Trist, Vayne, and maybe Caitlyn or MF.

Fiddle Support: Philo Stone and Kage's are good on him. He can absorb lane harass with his heal, and his fear + silence are potent for stopping attacks and grabbing kills (and that silence harasses well). A Drain at the right time can also discourage chasing better than a lot of other mechanics in the game, just from a psychological perspective: you don't want to let Fiddles keep channeling. Most carries would work well with him, provided Fiddles knows how and when to use his abilities.

Shaco Support: Sort of an odd case (again, Gold per 5), Shaco gives incredible bush control and great gank defense with his boxes. He also allows for some potent early-game ganks and harass with his ability to jump in, hit, and toss his dagger while his boxes prevent the enemy from gaining positioning advantages, which allows your carry to farm. Would work very well with Caitlyn and her tendency to hug the bushes, but any carry who has a gap-closer (when the enemy gets feared) and wants to free-farmed with his enemies zoned can benefit from a good Shaco.

Singed Support: Singed is odd, in that you usually want a tougher carry (like Graves) or one with CC (like Vayne), so if you get the throw wrong than your carry doesn't evaporate. He's great for punishing aggressive play and zoning lower-range enemy carries and supports, and his slow + fling can ensure kills if your team has the upper edge in lane.

Maokai Support: A knockback, a harassing, homing skillshot, a root, and a low CD damage reducing ult? How is he *not* a good support? :smalltongue:



Of course, I haven't tried any of these yet (anyone want to give it a go with me?), but they seem fun enough. :smallbiggrin:

Um, yes? :smallbiggrin:

[Baxter190]

Practice more, if this is your first account to 30 you are most likely not actually ready to play Ranked (unless you're willing to take the chance that you actually suck, lose all your placement games, and get your ELO hammered down to like 800.) If you've been playing Blind Pick Normal it would be a good idea to switch over to Draft to get an idea of how that goes and to figure out if you own enough champs to play effectively against bans and not being able to pick duplicates.

For the computer- what's your budget, are you looking to assemble your own or get something pre-built, and can you order online or do you have to deal with whatever is available at your local Best Buy/Microcenter/Fry's/analogue?

I have $400 at the moment, and getting another $450 next week. At the moment I'm think pre-built, but I'm not sure what to shop for other than 4 GB RAM at least, and 1 TB HDD. I want something with an i5 processor, but I', not sure where/if I can affored to buy that.

[ArcanistSupreme]

The game isn't designed to support nofarm characters remaining useful. Everyone has ratios for a reason (even though everyone scales at different speeds). Taric happens to be one of the guys considered to be "support" who needs to scale a bit to stay competitively useful (see also: Zilean, Karma) . Complaining he feels useless without farm feels as wrong to me as complaining Ashe feels useless when you stack Malady.

There's a reason why the top five supports are the top five supports. They can all remain effective with 0 cs (yes, even Taric remains relevant with his w and ult). But just because Taric is relevant doesn't mean he's interesting or fun late game, or even as relevant as the other four. Yes, other lane comps and characters can fill the role or obviate the need for a 0 cs support, but they either require specific lane comps (hard to come by in solo queue) or leeching off of the carry's farm, which is a big no-no.

Nearly anything can work in normal games, and there is all kinds of fun to be had in wacky team comps. But when I play to win, I want to use the most optimal and reliable strategies available. And until I see lanes and alternative strategies that can reliably beat the current meta, I'm going to park my 0 cs support butt in bot lane and let my carry farm. It's not very exciting or innovative, but I'm not a very exciting or innovative person and it is the most reliable way to win the lane and remain relevant into late game.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Cho Support: Obviously Philo Stone and Heart of Gold, Cho can also use Kage's Lucky Pick. He's solid against non-mobile teams and/or with carries with a stun or slow (carry slows, then Rupture to hold them in place). Rupture is great behind-the-minion-line harass, and Feral Scream punishes enemies who try to get close (and can silence those trying to stun/cc your carry). Cho is also great at blocking skill shots and even the ability to target your carry. I think he'd work well with Kog'Maw, Trist, Vayne, and maybe Caitlyn or MF.

Fiddle Support: Philo Stone and Kage's are good on him. He can absorb lane harass with his heal, and his fear + silence are potent for stopping attacks and grabbing kills (and that silence harasses well). A Drain at the right time can also discourage chasing better than a lot of other mechanics in the game, just from a psychological perspective: you don't want to let Fiddles keep channeling. Most carries would work well with him, provided Fiddles knows how and when to use his abilities.

Shaco Support: Sort of an odd case (again, Gold per 5), Shaco gives incredible bush control and great gank defense with his boxes. He also allows for some potent early-game ganks and harass with his ability to jump in, hit, and toss his dagger while his boxes prevent the enemy from gaining positioning advantages, which allows your carry to farm. Would work very well with Caitlyn and her tendency to hug the bushes, but any carry who has a gap-closer (when the enemy gets feared) and wants to free-farmed with his enemies zoned can benefit from a good Shaco.

Singed Support: Singed is odd, in that you usually want a tougher carry (like Graves) or one with CC (like Vayne), so if you get the throw wrong than your carry doesn't evaporate. He's great for punishing aggressive play and zoning lower-range enemy carries and supports, and his slow + fling can ensure kills if your team has the upper edge in lane.

Maokai Support: A knockback, a harassing, homing skillshot, a root, and a low CD damage reducing ult? How is he *not* a good support? :smalltongue:

Good to know, I play Maokai support whenever he's free anyway, just wanted tips or anything not to do. I tend to focus on Twisted Advance, build fairly tanky and take Q as late as possible. Also, since I don't play ranked yet and few people jungle at my normals Elo I'll often be paired with top. Maokai has been the most fun character that I've played yet, seemingly attracting friendly co-laners for some reason. Or maybe its Poppy and Kennen players, not sure. EDIT: Oh, and I need to get better at using saplings as wards, too. I tend to go for harass more (think I may have even maxed saplings first against a Brand and someone opposing lane - it was either Malz or Warwick, and really freaking annoying until they lost their early advantage and the Vayne I was laning with started following me more).

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll have to try those some time!

[tyckspoon]

I have $400 at the moment, and getting another $450 next week. At the moment I'm think pre-built, but I'm not sure what to shop for other than 4 GB RAM at least, and 1 TB HDD. I want something with an i5 processor, but I', not sure where/if I can affored to buy that.

Hmm. Well, ideally you want something that looks like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227370), which is why I asked if online shopping is an option for you- you won't get a fair price on a gaming-capable prebuilt from the standard HP/Lenovo/Dell lines found in most brick and mortar shops. You can actually find the basic stuff pretty cheap; a lot of those systems *will* have a hefty chunk of RAM, way more storage space than you need, and an i-series CPU. The kicker is they charge a ridiculous premium for a video card and the associated beefier power supply to run it; last I remember HP, for example, wants about $800 for a system with a media-center card, and about 12-1300 for something specced about the same as the iBuyPower I linked.

If you have to shop local, I'd get in touch with a tech-comfortable friend and see if he/she will help you assemble one, or at least sort out a good deal on a starter unit and then add in a video card and PSU as after-market upgrades.

[toasty]

Wickd: There is a bug for mini golems.

Lyumi: Its not a bug, its a feature. If it was a bug they would have fixed it. :smallamused:

[Qwertystop]

Wickd: There is a bug for mini golems.

Lyumi: Its not a bug, its a feature. If it was a bug they would have fixed it. :smallamused:

what would that bug be?

[9mm]

best thread ever (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=17746614#post17746614)

re moakai support: his downside though is he eats farm.

[toasty]

what would that bug be?

Something that allows you to leash golems and not take damage etc.

[9mm]

Something that allows you to leash golems and not take damage etc.

yeah that's not a bug, it's just hillarity. Headbutt a golem over the wall and just run.

[Dienekes]

best thread ever (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=17746614#post17746614)


The mana mana line cracked me up. I endorse the thread 100%

[term1nally s1ck]

15/25/35 AD/AP, 30 armor
vs 20 AD/AP, 15 armor/mr, +15 armor/mr to lowest %health person, +MS

Sona's free stats are about as good.

Except sona can have one or two of those up at once ever. And it's VERY mana intensive to do so.

Meanwhile, taric also gives -30 Armor in an AoE, and a targetted stun that could be used more than once.

As for the guy who felt taric was boring to play because he just stood around....stop getting nothing but aura items? If you're playing a char with 2 auras, and add more auras to that, you become a walking rally. You literally do nothing apart from occasionally stun and heal, and being free stats.

[ex cathedra]

yeah that's not a bug, it's just hillarity. Headbutt a golem over the wall and just run.

I think we're talking about this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfLLPs2KR4)

[LordShotGun]

this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227370),


Wow, thanks, I have been looking for a new rig and that one fits PERFECTLY since I already have a better graphics card in my current rig that I can migrate but my processor is choking badly and my (pretty damn small ~200 gig) hard drive is full.

Anyway back on topic, I am loving skarner. I started video gaming as a FPS and RTS person (halo,unreal and warcraft 3) and I have it hard grained into my mind and body that if you are not pressing buttons you are "doing it wrong".

Thus I find most AD carries boring (particularly mana restrained champs) like trist,MF, cait, and vayne (although I did kinda enjoy vayne's tumble) since the way I play, I LOVE spamming buttons/abilities and quickly run out of mana.

Therfore I like playing AP champions and usually get a RoA Asap and lack AD/melee champions.

Skarner just scratchs that itch with his super spamming Q and E and his semi-spammy W. I have been starting bots+pots 3 and getting a Tear ASAP to start charging it. Between the tear/manamune and masteries I can get over 2000 mana which is a total of over 60 damage plus free use of all my abilities for a pretty inexpensive item.

After that I go mostly tank and if we are doing well or if we already have a tank/off-tank and lack physical damage I go for triforce and wipe the floor with people.

[Cute_Riolu]

Wow, thanks, I have been looking for a new rig and that one fits PERFECTLY since I already have a better graphics card in my current rig that I can migrate but my processor is choking badly and my (pretty damn small ~200 gig) hard drive is full.

Anyway back on topic, I am loving skarner. I started video gaming as a FPS and RTS person (halo,unreal and warcraft 3) and I have it hard grained into my mind and body that if you are not pressing buttons you are "doing it wrong".

Thus I find most AD carries boring (particularly mana restrained champs) like trist,MF, cait, and vayne (although I did kinda enjoy vayne's tumble) since the way I play, I LOVE spamming buttons/abilities and quickly run out of mana.

Therfore I like playing AP champions and usually get a RoA Asap and lack AD/melee champions.

Skarner just scratchs that itch with his super spamming Q and E and his semi-spammy W. I have been starting bots+pots 3 and getting a Tear ASAP to start charging it. Between the tear/manamune and masteries I can get over 2000 mana which is a total of over 60 damage plus free use of all my abilities for a pretty inexpensive item.

After that I go mostly tank and if we are doing well or if we already have a tank/off-tank and lack physical damage I go for triforce and wipe the floor with people.

No offense, but if you can't restrain your mana usage, then you're probably not going to do well in ranked.

[Delusion]

Bought Ashe
Her ulti is the most fun in the game.
That is all.

[Lix Lorn]

Bought Ashe
Her ulti is the most fun in the game.
That is all.
EZREAL DENIES YOUR REALITY
:smalltongue:

[LordShotGun]

No offense, but if you can't restrain your mana usage, then you're probably not going to do well in ranked.


Or as I said before I will play manaless champions or champs that either get blue or naturally have enough mana.


And I did take offense at that :smallmad: Since I did state that I will use champions that fit my playstyle and not ones that don't.

[ex cathedra]

You shouldn't be offended by your own inadequacies. Mana conservation is often an important skill and learning it will allow you to improve as a player. There's no logical reason to be offended by that.

[LordShotGun]

You shouldn't be offended by your own inadequacies. Mana conservation is often an important skill and learning it will allow you to improve as a player. There's no logical reason to be offended by that.

Hmm, true. Certainly a skill I lack. While I did say that I won't willingly play a champion that requires it, I could see in solo que ranked playing a slot that I am uncomfortable with would be required.

Although truthfully I have little desire to play ranked and kinda enjoy the yakaty sax stupidity of random pubs.

[Neftren]

Um, yes? :smallbiggrin:

Which one do you want to start with? :smalltongue:

Also, if anyone else decides to try these metas, tell me how they do.

[Delusion]

EZREAL DENIES YOUR REALITY
:smalltongue:

Ezreals ulti doesn't stun.
QED Ashe's ulti is funnier.

[Qwertystop]

Ezreals ulti doesn't stun.
QED Ashe's ulti is funnier.

Especially when the space between you and the enemy is smaller than the length of Ashe's Arrow.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Which one do you want to start with? :smalltongue:

Also, if anyone else decides to try these metas, tell me how they do.

Honestly? I care not. Surprise me.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Except sona can have one or two of those up at once ever. And it's VERY mana intensive to do so.

Meanwhile, taric also gives -30 Armor in an AoE, and a targetted stun that could be used more than once.

As for the guy who felt taric was boring to play because he just stood around....stop getting nothing but aura items? If you're playing a char with 2 auras, and add more auras to that, you become a walking rally. You literally do nothing apart from occasionally stun and heal, and being free stats.

Well, as that guy, allow me to admit that saying that I just stood around was perhaps a slight exaggeration. And certain aura items, such as Shurelia's, do allow me to contribute more actively. And yes, sometimes it is right to buy damage items on supports, but you will not even remotely keep up with any non-support in terms of damage. And if you do, you have to sacrifice survivability and utility. Not worth it.

Even if I have no idea what I'm talking about in terms of items, Taric simply does not offer the same late game utility as any of the other four supports (with the possible exception of Soraka, but with her silence and debuff, that's iffy).

And even if I'm completely wrong about everything else, I just don't enjoy playing him. *shrug*

[Temotei]

Well, as that guy, allow me to admit that saying that I just stood around was perhaps a slight exaggeration. And certain aura items, such as Shurelia's, do allow me to contribute more actively. And yes, sometimes it is right to buy damage items on supports, but you will not even remotely keep up with any non-support in terms of damage. And if you do, you have to sacrifice survivability and utility. Not worth it.

Even if I have no idea what I'm talking about in terms of items, Taric simply does not offer the same late game utility as any of the other four supports (with the possible exception of Soraka, but with her silence and debuff, that's iffy).

And even if I'm completely wrong about everything else, I just don't enjoy playing him. *shrug*

From my extremely limited experience with Taric, I feel similarly. He's good, but not my style. At least Singed is really fun while allowing you to take naps while playing.

[ArcanistSupreme]

From my extremely limited experience with Taric, I feel similarly. He's good, but not my style. At least Singed is really fun while allowing you to take naps while playing.

Especially if you bind /laugh to a hotkey.

[Neftren]

Taric is phenomenal if your team could use another stun, and your AD carry doesn't really need mana and only light healing to be patched up. For example, Taric/Ashe, Taric/Tristana, and so on. On the other hand, a champion that can really get LOTS of use out of having mana would benefit greatly from Soraka. For example, Soraka/Caitlyn would be a strong lane (not that Taric/Caitlyn is a bad lane).

Ultimately though, for the average game, play who you're more comfortable (read: better) with. It doesn't matter how good it looks on paper. If you can't play the champion proficiently or as competently as another support, you're not bringing your A-game to the table.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Taric is phenomenal if your team could use another stun, and your AD carry doesn't really need mana and only light healing to be patched up. For example, Taric/Ashe, Taric/Tristana, and so on. On the other hand, a champion that can really get LOTS of use out of having mana would benefit greatly from Soraka. For example, Soraka/Caitlyn would be a strong lane (not that Taric/Caitlyn is a bad lane).

Ultimately though, for the average game, play who you're more comfortable (read: better) with. It doesn't matter how good it looks on paper. If you can't play the champion proficiently or as competently as another support, you're not bringing your A-game to the table.

I'm not denying that Taric is a strong laner. Heck, he's even somewhat fun in lane. But after that, meh. Alistar and Janna provide more CC on shorter cooldowns, Sona's CC hits multiple champions, and Soraka has dem healz (also, her silence has a longer range and duration than Taric's stun. Just sayin').

[Lix Lorn]

Ezreals ulti doesn't stun.
QED Ashe's ulti is funnier.
Ezreal has more arrows in his ult
QED his is better

Prospective AD Sona build
Open with Meki + potions (Blue? Red? Maybe one of each.)

Upgrade to Tear ASAP, and then to Manamune. The AD boost is low at first, but Manamune grows faster and gives you a little more of a boost. Plus, you need mana to spam auras, which boosts power chord. In the early game, Q is vital. Q + chord is horrifying.

Berserkers. Consider Mercurys if enemy is CC or magic heavy, but otherwise dat attack speed. In endgame, sell these for a Phantom Dancer?

Phage, Zeal, Sheen and then Trinity-not necessarily in that order. The Phage and Zeal speak for themselves, while Sheen is pretty obvious on a spellspamming carry.

It feels at this point, when your manamune should be charging you to 2000+mana, that you have more AD than AS. Correct this with Stinger. Sona likes the CDR, and her Q and W will like the Nashors this goes into.

At this point, if you're dying, consider some defences. Banshee's Veil in case of Magic damage and CC, Thornmail for ohgod the AD, or split the difference with Guardian Angel. If you find yourself being supporty, like normal Sona, try Aegis instead. It's also cheaper.

If you're NOT dying, forge on with the Nashors. Mana for spamming, plus a little AP aren't exaaactly what you want, but the boosted CDR and AS might be. Perhaps consider replacing this with pure carry item-Black Cleaver maybe?

AS is well and truly high here, so compensate waaaay over the other side with an Infinity Edge. By this point, they SHOULD have realised you're horrifying. Therefore, if you didn't already, build the defensive item now.

If you have the gold, sell Greaves for a PD last. You should still have over 400 move when in E.

So... any advice? Is that feasible?

[Duos]

Which one do you want to start with? :smalltongue:

Also, if anyone else decides to try these metas, tell me how they do.

I so want in on this too. Anything that defies the current metagame makes me happy. I keep getting depressed by the rigid adherence to the meta that I see in some people (and the people who want the team to follow the meta but refuse to change their own roles in order to fit, but that's a slightly different issue.)

[Joran]

Ezreal has more arrows in his ult
QED his is better

Prospective AD Sona build
Open with Meki + potions (Blue? Red? Maybe one of each.)

Upgrade to Tear ASAP, and then to Manamune. The AD boost is low at first, but Manamune grows faster and gives you a little more of a boost. Plus, you need mana to spam auras, which boosts power chord. In the early game, Q is vital. Q + chord is horrifying.

Berserkers. Consider Mercurys if enemy is CC or magic heavy, but otherwise dat attack speed. In endgame, sell these for a Phantom Dancer?

Phage, Zeal, Sheen and then Trinity-not necessarily in that order. The Phage and Zeal speak for themselves, while Sheen is pretty obvious on a spellspamming carry.

It feels at this point, when your manamune should be charging you to 2000+mana, that you have more AD than AS. Correct this with Stinger. Sona likes the CDR, and her Q and W will like the Nashors this goes into.

At this point, if you're dying, consider some defences. Banshee's Veil in case of Magic damage and CC, Thornmail for ohgod the AD, or split the difference with Guardian Angel. If you find yourself being supporty, like normal Sona, try Aegis instead. It's also cheaper.

If you're NOT dying, forge on with the Nashors. Mana for spamming, plus a little AP aren't exaaactly what you want, but the boosted CDR and AS might be. Perhaps consider replacing this with pure carry item-Black Cleaver maybe?

AS is well and truly high here, so compensate waaaay over the other side with an Infinity Edge. By this point, they SHOULD have realised you're horrifying. Therefore, if you didn't already, build the defensive item now.

If you have the gold, sell Greaves for a PD last. You should still have over 400 move when in E.

So... any advice? Is that feasible?

I'd argue that Sheen should be rushed first over Tear. That early game dominance from a Sheen-empowered Power chord hurts like crap and helps you win your lane.

Nashor's is a pretty bad item. I'd argue for your basic AD items over Nashor's.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Going to chime in on the Taric front.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166946_543821476471_123001102_30932484_1844417467_ n.jpg

Obviously, I don't use the same build every game. But that's one build I have used to transition into a tanky-deeps lategame. After dueling their Maoki to a lopsided death in a skirmish mid, he realized I had a Wriggle's and questioned my sanity. I went on to carry Tryndamere out of the hole he dug himself into and vaporize Tristana any time she tried to gap-close onto me.

That's actually what I did to anyone who tried gap-closing, actually, (and they all had GC abilities). Ult+Shatter+Stun+Hammer of Whomping/Lifestealing and I could 1v1 any enemy in the game, with my pals Skarner and Twitch helping to bring the pain when needed.

[Neftren]

I'm not denying that Taric is a strong laner. Heck, he's even somewhat fun in lane. But after that, meh. Alistar and Janna provide more CC on shorter cooldowns, Sona's CC hits multiple champions, and Soraka has dem healz (also, her silence has a longer range and duration than Taric's stun. Just sayin').

I wasn't really making a case for either champion. Just pointing out that from a purely theoretical standpoint, choose the right champion for the right carry.


I so want in on this too. Anything that defies the current metagame makes me happy. I keep getting depressed by the rigid adherence to the meta that I see in some people (and the people who want the team to follow the meta but refuse to change their own roles in order to fit, but that's a slightly different issue.)

I don't even know what your summoner name is... :/

[Lix Lorn]

I'd argue that Sheen should be rushed first over Tear. That early game dominance from a Sheen-empowered Power chord hurts like crap and helps you win your lane.

Nashor's is a pretty bad item. I'd argue for your basic AD items over Nashor's.
I LIKE Nashors... is it good on anyone? DXD

In my first attempt at Carrysona, I forgot to buy any boots until I was about four items in.

[Duos]

I don't even know what your summoner name is... :/

Isn't it on the list in the OP? I'm DapperGuy.

But yeah, I need to put more effort into gaming with playgrounders. I think I played a game with mathmage, once...

six months ago...

I need a new headset, I can't into mumble right now. Yes, I'll blame it on that.

[Daverin]

So, a question. Obviously, Shen is AWESOME, and bruiser Shen is awesome, but how well does he compare to other common bruisers?

Also, GP still awesome. Can't wait to see what his new model will look like. Provided they don't necessarily try to "add" anything so much as update his appearance, then it can only be good.

[EternalMelon]

So, a question. Obviously, Shen is AWESOME, and bruiser Shen is awesome, but how well does he compare to other common bruisers?

Also, GP still awesome. Can't wait to see what his new model will look like. Provided they don't necessarily try to "add" anything so much as update his appearance, then it can only be good.

They got rid of his chest hair...
:smallfrown: I don't really care, for I strongly dislike Pirate, but what ever.

[LordShotGun]

I LIKE Nashors... is it good on anyone? DXD

In my first attempt at Carrysona, I forgot to buy any boots until I was about four items in.

Supposedly nathor's tooth is underpowered for it's price, but I enjoy it on cho'gath.


They got rid of his chest hair...
:smallfrown: I don't really care, for I strongly dislike Pirate, but what ever.

That hair isn't coming from his chest....:smallwink:

[Eldariel]

Anyone? DXD

Ok, fine. Trinity Force (start Sheen) > Wit's End > Tanky. FH (I generally get Glacial Shroud for CDR pretty early tho if enemies honestly have 0 AD, I'll obviously enjoy my free win and get something like Shurelya's or Youmuu's instead), QSS/Banshee, Mercs/Tabi, etc. Super-easy, super-efficient tanky DPS, that Sona (for the record, going pure DPS is kinda waste though nothing wrong with Infinity Edge if the game is looking that way). Only really needs Trinity for deeps. Just go 21+ in Offensive Masteries; that's the real key to DPS Sona.

[tyckspoon]

I LIKE Nashors... is it good on anyone? DXD


I don't know.. there's a few champions who can make good use of everything on it (you're looking for AP-modified on-hit effects, I think- so Teemo's poison darts, Kayle's Righteous Fury, Cho'gath's Vorpal Spikes, that kind of thing- and pretty much everybody likes CDR) but nobody comes to mind where it seems good enough to make it a priority item; you always have to be thinking if Nashor's is the best option, or if you'd be better off investing that ~2900 into a more focused item. Like Phantom Dancer's. More AS, Crit, and that delicious delicious move speed, which are all good for an auto-attacking build..and the kicker is Dancer is 400 gold cheaper. Also most of those AP on-hits that make best use of Nashor's stats have kind of terrible ratios so it doesn't add all that much to their output.

That said, I think this is another one of those "not the best is not the same as not good" things that happens so often in League. There are champs who can use Nashor's and I wouldn't laugh at you for it. I just wouldn't pick Sona as one of them.

[Daverin]

For what it is worth, Nashor is getting looked at, and one of the likely changes will be removing the mana regen, since that stat sort of artifically inflates the stats that it is actually bought for.