Could V's master build a Gate? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Dr.Epic

2011-11-26, 08:47 PM

I'm just wondering, do you think V's master is high enough level to build a Gate? I'm sure they gotta be close to epic level if not epic. But maybe not though. When OotS started, the main characters were supposedly level 7-9 so V's master could have only been level 15, but in a visualization we did see V's master kill the mommy dragon effortlessly if that has any weight to it. I'm sure for a wizard, researching how to make this thing would be too difficult. Dorukan figured out how to do it; I'm sure V's master could. And yeah, I know you need a divine caster too. Let's assume we have one here.

Cranica

2011-11-26, 09:01 PM

Do we know that a Divine caster is needed to build a gate? I thought that was just for Xykon's ritual to control the Snarl.

As for Aarindarius, the only information we have on his power (in the main comic, anyway, I haven't read prequels) is V imagining him laying the smackdown on the black dragon roughly as easily as Darth V did. That said, Darth V is explicitly stated to be the most powerful mortal spellcaster of all time, so it's highly unlikely that was completely accurate. That said, V does consider him capable of at least defeating the dragon solo, so I'd say epic-level is almost certain. That still doesn't tell us anything re: the gates, because we know almost nothing about the rituals to create them.

Dr.Epic

2011-11-26, 09:03 PM

Do we know that a Divine caster is needed to build a gate? I thought that was just for Xykon's ritual to control the Snarl.

I'm pretty sure somewhere in the comic (maybe SoD) it's stated a divine and arcane caster are needed.

legomaster00156

2011-11-26, 09:15 PM

Do we know that a Divine caster is needed to build a gate? I thought that was just for Xykon's ritual to control the Snarl.
Never directly stated, but it showed in the backstory both Dorukan and Lirian - an arcane and divine caster, respectively - casting a spell when creating Kraagor's Gate.

zimmerwald1915

2011-11-26, 09:15 PM

Do we know that a Divine caster is needed to build a gate? I thought that was just for Xykon's ritual to control the Snarl.
Crayons of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) implies that both Lirian and Dorukan were needed to cast the spells that sealed the rifts. It also states that both their magical knowledges were necessary to design the Gates. Conversely, however, it also implies that anyone with access to the designs could build a Gate.

dps

2011-11-26, 09:19 PM

I'm pretty sure somewhere in the comic (maybe SoD) it's stated a divine and arcane caster are needed.

In the Crayons of Time strip (#276) it looks like Dorukan is the only one casting a spell.

Dr.Epic

2011-11-26, 09:32 PM

In the Crayons of Time strip (#276) it looks like Dorukan is the only one casting a spell.

This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)? Yeah, only one of them was. And Soon was telling them to cast the spell so it can be assumed he was telling Lirian to join Dorukan.

dps

2011-11-26, 09:38 PM

This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)?

Yes, that's the one.

Yeah, only one of them was. And Soon was telling them to cast the spell so it can be assumed he was telling Lirian to join Dorukan.

That's possible.

Kish

2011-11-26, 09:40 PM

Do we know that a Divine caster is needed to build a gate? I thought that was just for Xykon's ritual to control the Snarl.
The ritual Dorukan and Lirian used to build the gates, according to Start of Darkness, required an arcane and a divine spellcaster, both epic-level.

The ritual Redcloak plans to use on the Gate requires an arcane and divine spellcaster, level requirement unknown but no higher than mid-level.

DaveMcW

2011-11-26, 10:02 PM

but in a visualization we did see V's master kill the mommy dragon effortlessly if that has any weight to it.

It has no weight, it was only meant to fool V.

We also saw Durkon cast resurrection in one round, which anyone with Knowledge:Religion knows is impossible.

Pyron

2011-11-26, 10:08 PM

Keep in mind, in strip #276, the spells Dorukan cast in the northern mountains was designed to seal the rift, which is different from the ritual to create a gate. In fact, the last panel says as much.

With the rifts sealed, Lirian and Dorukan began intense magical research into a way to "lock" them. ...

Dr.Epic

2011-11-26, 10:13 PM

It has no weight, it was only meant to fool V.

We also saw Durkon cast resurrection in one round, which anyone with Knowledge:Religion knows is impossible.

Number A: I don't think you could have fooled V that way. He'd know his master best and would have seen through something like that.

Letter 2: Resurrection in one round: considering how Rich has strayed away from D&D rules to fit the main story, I can see it happening. Also, scroll of resurrection.

Red XIV

2011-11-26, 10:25 PM

As for Aarindarius, the only information we have on his power (in the main comic, anyway, I haven't read prequels) is V imagining him laying the smackdown on the black dragon roughly as easily as Darth V did. That said, Darth V is explicitly stated to be the most powerful mortal spellcaster of all time, so it's highly unlikely that was completely accurate.
Aarindarius is probably more competent than Darth V was, though. It's quite believable that A would use his power far more efficiently than Darth V did. An ancient black dragon has a CR of 19. Certainly dangerous, but not something you need an effective caster level of 80+ (which Darth V had easily) to defeat.

Flame of Anor

2011-11-26, 10:31 PM

Aarindarius is probably more competent than Darth V was, though. It's quite believable that A would use his power far more efficiently than Darth V did. An ancient black dragon has a CR of 19. Certainly dangerous, but not something you need an effective caster level of 80+ (which Darth V had easily) to defeat.

Seconded. V had no idea how to effectively use his super power-up.

NerfTW

2011-11-27, 12:22 AM

Redcloak and Xykon only have the ritual for controlling the gates.

As stated in Start of Darkness, they do not have access to the ritual to create one. As far as we know, nobody but Lirian and Dorukon have this knowledge, and it would have to be researched from scratch.

So while it may be possible for V's master to cast such a spell, he wouldn't know it.

And now that I've said that, I've now realized why in SOD:

Lirian and Dorukon are trapped in a soul gem together, as opposed to any other member of the Scribble. They can be released to reveal the spell required.

thereaper

2011-11-27, 12:32 AM

Number A: I don't think you could have fooled V that way. He'd know his master best and would have seen through something like that.

Letter 2: Resurrection in one round: considering how Rich has strayed away from D&D rules to fit the main story, I can see it happening. Also, scroll of resurrection.

You're assuming that V was thinking rationally at the time, which was clearly not so, considering that every other part of the alternative idea the IFCC was offering him was patently ridiculous.

Besides, to an ant, a dog seems like a god. Doesn't mean Fido can take on an elephant.

Ashadar

2011-11-27, 07:17 PM

This has been discussed before... :smallannoyed:

It's not about the visualization in the fiends' story, it's about the fact that V's first thought when the imp offered his assistance was to send him over to Aarindarius so that he could get rid of the dragon. You can't use the "not thinking logically" excuse on that one. She'd have to be an idiot to send an underpowered wizard on a suicide mission against a dragon.

Flame of Anor

2011-11-27, 07:19 PM

MesiDoomstalker

2011-11-27, 07:41 PM

It has no weight, it was only meant to fool V.

We also saw Durkon cast resurrection in one round, which anyone with Knowledge:Religion knows is impossible.

No, Durkon does not cast Ressurection in 1 round. He starts casting it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html) prompting Darth V to have a hissy fit and go after Xykon. Then its finished here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html) 15 strips later. Haley even mentions in the first link its casting time. And also, it would be Spellcraft, not Knowledge (Religion).

Gift Jeraff

2011-11-27, 07:45 PM

No, Durkon does not cast Ressurection in 1 round. He starts casting it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html) prompting Darth V to have a hissy fit and go after Xykon. Then its finished here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html) 15 strips later. Haley even mentions in the first link its casting time. And also, it would be Spellcraft, not Knowledge (Religion).They're talking about this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html).

Anarion

2011-11-27, 08:57 PM

They're talking about this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html).

Yeah the explanation about the scroll is patently ridiculous. The black dragon could have spent a fair amount of time gloating though, so maybe Aarindarious could have interceded before the black dragon teleported away. Then they could have revived the family later (leaving only the psychological trauma).

More generally, I think the fact that V didn't dismiss contacting Aarindarious outright means that Aaindarious is higher than 15th level and probably a fair bit higher than that since V was confident enough in contacting Aarindarious that there would be no need to pursue alternatives.

Also @Dr. Epic, when you say gate, do you mean
1) spell that seals the rifts,
2) spell that strengthens the seal,
3) physical item built around the sealed rift?

All three are different and only the first one requires the double combo of epic arcane and divine caster.

GSFB

2011-11-27, 08:59 PM

We have no way of knowing if Aarindarius is even as powerful as V right now. All we know is V studied under Aarindarius, and at the time V when out on his/her own, Aarindarius was presumably still V's superior. It is entirely possible that, since adventuring, V has become more powerful. It's kind of like a child growing up - Dad is always bigger, stronger, smarter - you look up to Dad and believe he is your own personal superman. But when you are older you start to realize he is just a regular guy. You still look up to him, but you see him in a different way and realize he isn't a demigod. I would not be surprised if, next time V sees Aarindarius, he/she must come to the realization that Aarindarius, while probably still a competent and respected wizard, is no greater a spellcaster than V - maybe even less of one. Probably a lot wiser, though...

Also:

She'd have to be an idiot to send an underpowered wizard on a suicide mission against a dragon.

But would V have only anticipated Aarindarius defeating ABD in combat? It might have still been a good plan to call Aarindarius for help - but that help might have been in the form of moving the family to safety and bringing in other allies for support. Yes, the visualization may have been combat, but that's not necessarily the only thing going through V's mind. V may have had 20 different scenarios playing out but a comic strip is limited in what it can reasonably show us.

Psyren

2011-11-28, 01:47 AM

This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)? Yeah, only one of them was. And Soon was telling them to cast the spell so it can be assumed he was telling Lirian to join Dorukan.

Not to mention, she was the one to respond "No! Not until you're both clear!" implying that her participation was required.

factotum

2011-11-28, 03:29 AM

Aarindarius is probably more competent than Darth V was, though. It's quite believable that A would use his power far more efficiently than Darth V did. An ancient black dragon has a CR of 19. Certainly dangerous, but not something you need an effective caster level of 80+ (which Darth V had easily) to defeat.

Don't forget the ABD had some sorcerer class levels as well, which up the CR a little. Otherwise, though, I agree--Darth V had no idea how to use his power, even with the help of the three souls he was bound to!

Emanick

2011-11-28, 05:23 AM

We have no way of knowing if Aarindarius is even as powerful as V right now. All we know is V studied under Aarindarius, and at the time V when out on his/her own, Aarindarius was presumably still V's superior. It is entirely possible that, since adventuring, V has become more powerful. It's kind of like a child growing up - Dad is always bigger, stronger, smarter - you look up to Dad and believe he is your own personal superman. But when you are older you start to realize he is just a regular guy. You still look up to him, but you see him in a different way and realize he isn't a demigod. I would not be surprised if, next time V sees Aarindarius, he/she must come to the realization that Aarindarius, while probably still a competent and respected wizard, is no greater a spellcaster than V - maybe even less of one. Probably a lot wiser, though...

Also:

But would V have only anticipated Aarindarius defeating ABD in combat? It might have still been a good plan to call Aarindarius for help - but that help might have been in the form of moving the family to safety and bringing in other allies for support. Yes, the visualization may have been combat, but that's not necessarily the only thing going through V's mind. V may have had 20 different scenarios playing out but a comic strip is limited in what it can reasonably show us.

I think we can safely assume that, since V spent the better part of a century studying under Aarindarius and thus possibly knows A better than (s)he knows any other living being, up to and including hir spouse, V probably knows how powerful Aarindarius actually is.

MesiDoomstalker

2011-11-28, 08:27 AM

I think we can safely assume that, since V spent the better part of a century studying under Aarindarius and thus possibly knows A better than (s)he knows any other living being, up to and including hir spouse, V probably knows how powerful Aarindarius actually is.

I don't think any one is arguing this. I think what people are argueing is that the panel of A one-shotting the dragon was made by V after weeks (months?) of not trancing and aggravation with hir's own shortcomings and that hir blames the last few weeks (months?) entirly on hirself and hir shortcomings in Arcane power. Its about equivalent to somebody staying awake for 3 days straight while blaming themselves for something that wasn't their fault. Such a person would not be able to think logically, like, at all, until they were properly rested and their mind put at ease.

V views A as a sort of paternal figure and as someone else mentioned, that means V idolizes A. A was definatly stronger than V when the story began but its highly possibly that V is now A's equal or even greater. At the time of the Darth V saga, I'd say A was a few levels above V but a lot more wiser and could of handled the dragon adequatly in straight up combat if A had buffed himself before teleporting in. But that is speculation on my part.

Ninjaman

2011-11-28, 09:56 AM

And now that I've said that, I've now realized why in SOD:

Lirian and Dorukon are trapped in a soul gem together, as opposed to any other member of the Scribble. They can be released to reveal the spell required.

Oh my god, you are right. Post this on things you never noticed.

Bulldog Psion

2011-11-29, 09:15 AM

In answer to the OP's question, I'm going to have to go for option #3 -- not enough information to decide if A can cast any of the gate spells or not.

Morquard

2011-12-01, 10:14 AM

After all, Aarindarius presumably is stronger than V, and the mom dragon thought V at least had a chance against her.
Wrong.
Aarindarius WAS alot stronger than V when V left for his adventure. V was presumably level 1 or something at that time, and the stuff A could do without breaking a sweat must seem awesome and powerful for a young apprentice.
By now V is around level 15, and that's what the Mommy Dragon compared herself to.

We however have no idea if V or A are more powerful at this time, and by how much.
Rationally thinking V might know that A is "just" 12th level for example, but in his subconcious A is still "the great archmage that's 20 times as powerful as I am". And he was trance-deprived and desperate and absolutely not rationally thinking at that time.

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-01, 02:07 PM

Wrong.
Aarindarius WAS alot stronger than V when V left for his adventure. V was presumably level 1 or something at that time, and the stuff A could do without breaking a sweat must seem awesome and powerful for a young apprentice.
Does OtOoPCs have any clues pointing to what levels the various characters had when they started adventuring? I'm afraid I haven't got the book.

Kish

2011-12-01, 02:10 PM

Roy said that, before he could go after Xykon, he needed to have Weapon Specialization, so he was joining another adventuring party first. So, presumably, when he said that he was below level 4.

That's the only indication I remember.

Emanick

2011-12-01, 09:19 PM

Does OtOoPCs have any clues pointing to what levels the various characters had when they started adventuring? I'm afraid I haven't got the book.

V casts a 4th level spell in the book.

Flame of Anor

2011-12-02, 12:09 AM

V casts a 4th level spell in the book.

Was that Distant Inferno, or whatever? :smallbiggrin:

Emanick

2011-12-02, 02:29 AM

Was that Distant Inferno, or whatever? :smallbiggrin:

Yep. :smallbiggrin:

I was trying not to mention the name because I didn't want to borrow with spoiler tags, but I guess it's not much of a spoiler, really.

Can we assume that the OOTS started off at basically the same level of experience, based on the inn scene around the beginning of NCftPB where everyone but Belkar gains a level simultaneously? Because if so, the entire Order was at least level 7 when the comic began.

Ancalagon

2011-12-02, 03:13 AM

Given we still do not know the (power)level of Aarindarius and do not know if he is level 12, 15, 18, or epic, I fear there is nothing to decide here.

The answer to the question is simple:
"Yes, if he is epic and invests years and decades into the research and actually has to get out of his tower for that."
"No, if he is not epic."

What else is there to discuss as that discussion would come down to the (already inconclusively ended) debate on his level?

In general, I'd not handwave the "divine spellcaster" away. The Order is not sure if there is even a level 17+ cleric in the world, going even further and plainly stating "let's pull an epic spellcaster out of the hat" seems to be going too far.
For this question here it has the relevancy as even if Aarindarius was epic and did invest said research into it, we'd have to change the answer to
"No, if there is no helping divine spellcaster."

As conclusion, I still want to make a contribution to this discussion that's (imo) doomed from the start because the premise is unknown and even undecideable:

Aarindarius can build a new gate if everything of the following becomes true:
[ ] He must be epic.
[ ] He must be willing.
[ ] He must get out of his tower.
[ ] He must do the research.
[ ] He must know about the problem in the first place.
[ ] He must enact in the dangerous snarl-fighting to build the gate (Kragor died).
[ ] He must find an divine caster for whom all of the above is also true.

Therefore, I conclude here: "It is possible Aaarindarius could build a new gate but it seems unlikely."

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-03, 07:56 AM

Aarindarius can build a new gate if everything of the following becomes true:
[ ] He must be epic.
[ ] He must be willing.
[ ] He must get out of his tower.
[ ] He must do the research.
[ ] He must know about the problem in the first place.
[ ] He must enact in the dangerous snarl-fighting to build the gate (Kragor died).
[ ] He must find an divine caster for whom all of the above is also true.

Therefore, I conclude here: "It is possible Aaarindarius could build a new gate but it seems unlikely."
Sorry to get caught up on semantics, but we know nothing about what it takes to build a gate. We know that sealing the rift and reinforcing the seal require epic arcane and divine spellcasting. The gate itself, as shown by the dwarf builders, Soon's sapphire, and Lirian's treants, could easily be much less difficult to construct - and to destroy.

Ancalagon

2011-12-03, 09:00 AM

Isn't the gate the seal?

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-03, 09:39 AM

Isn't the gate the seal?
IIRC, the seal closes the rift up and isn't itself visible, the reinforcement is the glowy purple bit that sits over the seal, and the gate is the craggy brown bit that runs around the reinforcement (as seen on Lirian's and Dorukan's gates, Soon's gate is rather small and indistinct). Could be wrong though.

Gift Jeraff

2011-12-03, 10:26 AM

Isn't the gate the seal?The Gate is not the seal. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11686931&postcount=83)

Ancalagon

2011-12-05, 02:08 AM

The Gate is not the seal. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11686931&postcount=83)

That raises the question: Does it make a difference what the gate and the seal is? To "seal" a rift, you actually seem to need both - and Aarindarius had to build both at the same time if he wanted to "seal" a rift again.

We have a big issue with semantics here, it seems. If we have a seal and a gate, what then is what? The destruction of the Azure-City-Gate ("Gate") very apparently removed the seal ("Seal") as well. So where is the difference between a "seal" and a "gate"? And if you construct/cast it, you probably need both? If the gate and the seal are actually different, what are the respective purposes?
Maybe you have to seal a rift before you can put a gate on it to keep it closed? But strangely, in Azure City has been no "gate", only a sealed and locked rift (kept close by the sapphire).
Also, if you have to "close" a rift by sealing it, why was it visible behind the Redmountain-Gate (and this raises the question: Was the gate in Redmountain actually a "Gate" or just a Deadbolt like the Sapphire in Azure City; what makes it worse, Rich actually uses "additional Seal" to describe the Sapphire in this explanation)? To make it more confusing, the Seal on the Redmountain Gate (?) was actually a spell protecting the Gate from fiddling (and as such not the "Gate" and not the "Seal").

This is confusing to the point where it becomes actually pointless to discuss things related to the seal, gate, deadbolt, "seals", "gates" and whatnot. :smalleek:

Attempt to sort it all out to clear the confusion above. We have (fixed expressions are put in "xxx"):

"Rifts" - those are the rifts. D'uh.
"Doors" - The invisible magic spells that actually close the "Rifts"
"Locks" - They hold the "doors" shut; it was the gate of Redmountain and the Sapphire in Azure City. I have no idea what the "lock" was for Lirian's Gate, but she had that structure around the rift, so that might have been the "lock".
"Additional Mumbo-Jumbo" - The Treants, the Seal on the Redmountain gate, the Paladins around the Throne room, etc.

At least that is what I read from the Giant's Comment. If that was true, it's curious that we actually speak about "moving the gates" all the time - but there actually are no gates. There are "doors" (to use The Giant's semantics) and the only gate was actually Dorukan's, but that is just coincidence, he could have used a wall, a gem, a weapon or even a car as "lock" for his "door".
(Sidenote: could this be why the MitD does not see a "gate"? If it it could see the invisible "door" (however it might look) it'd be explainable why it does not care about the "gate" which was only the physical "lock" on Girard's "door").

No matter what, it seems that Aarindarius had to construct a "door"-spell as well as a "lock" if he wanted to seal a... hum... gate (named "rift" here).

Gift Jeraff

2011-12-05, 02:25 AM

I don't see the implication that they have be done at the same time. I think the seal is the same as the "door." It's only temporary, however, but the Gates allow the seal to last indefinitely. But when the Gate is destroyed, the seal also goes away (if its "expiration date" has passed).

At least, that's how I interpret it.

factotum

2011-12-05, 03:08 AM

Seems a perfectly reasonable interpretation, Gift--the seal spell is not permanent, so the Gate has to be built to reinforce the spell and keep it going. Works for me!

Ancalagon

2011-12-05, 05:19 AM

Sure it works. But Aarindarius had to take care of that as well. So he has to come up with both. We do not know the time margin he has between "sealing" and "adding the lock". Is it weeks? Months? Even if it's a few years, he must have a full plan how to go on. So he still has to research of it all at once.

Btw, we have proof the gate in Dorukan's Dungeon got built later: The dwarves talk about the build the gate (which is the "lock" on the "door" (the seal-spell)).

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-05, 08:37 AM

Btw, we have proof the gate in Dorukan's Dungeon got built later: The dwarves talk about the build the gate (which is the "lock" on the "door" (the seal-spell)).
More to the point, we're shown that the dwarves were being paid by Dorukan to build the Gate. Shojo also mentions that Lirian and Dorukan "sank their entire fortune" into paying for the Gates to be built, though as always what Shojo says he knows and what actually happened don't have to line up. Now, we're told nothing about the abilities of these dwarves, but what we do see of them is more reminiscent of stereotypical average joe construction workers, not people with extraordinary magical ability. They're also shown looking at blueprints.

I think what we're looking at is a case of, provided the Seal is active, the Reinforcement is in place, and the builder is in possession of the Gate design, the right materials, and enough time, anyone can build a Gate. This leaves the question open as to why Dorukan would hire the dwarves to build his Gate in the first place instead of building it with magic, or why he kept them on even after they discussed cutting corners on the thing holding closed a tear in reality less than forty feet away from him. Perhaps he had to buy the materials, and the workers came as part of a package deal. But as it pertains to A being able to build a Gate, the barriers separating him from being able to do so consist of 1) not having an active Seal and Reinforcement on any of the Rifts, 2) not knowing, and possibly not having access to, the correct materials, 3) not knowing the design.

The Zoat

2011-12-05, 10:28 AM

I'm quite sure they were discussing building the gate defense dungeons.

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-05, 10:56 AM

I'm quite sure they were discussing building the gate defense dungeons.
They specifically discussed cutting corners on "the big gate in the basement". How could they do such a thing if they were not involved in some way with its construction? Why would Dorukan let them do such a thing, or get anywhere near it for that matter, if they were not involved in some way with is construction?

Pyron

2011-12-05, 11:22 AM

They specifically discussed cutting corners on "the big gate in the basement". How could they do such a thing if they were not involved in some way with its construction? Why would Dorukan let them do such a thing, or get anywhere near it for that matter, if they were not involved in some way with is construction?

But they were also discussing the costs to add a water dungeon and a reinforced ceiling. This, to me, implies that the dwarves were in charge of the construction of the fortress and physical metal gate that was put in front of the rift. For all we know, they could had been responsible for the physical gate and Dorukan could had enacted the wards and spells to reinforce the 'seal on the rift'.

Also, if we look at SoD
When Lirian's gate was destroyed, Xykon asked if they could build another gate. Redcloak replied that they both needed to be epic level and it could take decades of research.

So, I'm willing to bet that creating a gate itself, is an epic feat in itself (no pun intended).

zimmerwald1915

2011-12-05, 11:55 AM

The physical metal (wasn't it wood? it looked like wood) double-doored "gate" was, as has been said, put there by Team Evil, not by Dorukan. As for SOD...

Destroying Lirian's Gate also ended the Seal, which we know requires two epic spellcasters to create. A Gate is useless without a Seal already in place.

Ancalagon

2011-12-05, 01:28 PM

I think what we're looking at is a case of, provided the Seal is active, the Reinforcement is in place, and the builder is in possession of the Gate design, the right materials, and enough time, anyone can build a Gate.

I took the freedom to highlight the tricky piece, which is what Aardindarius had to research. But it is very interesting to know that the "lock" isn't actually highly magical in itself (maybe a little).

And given Rich's comments, we should stop speaking of gates and talk about "rifts", "doors" (or "sealing spells"), and "locks" instead (quotation signs included).

Flame of Anor

2011-12-05, 08:10 PM

Phishfood

2011-12-06, 09:02 AM

Seconded. V had no idea how to effectively use his super power-up.

Which is why most sci-fis have the whole "prime directive" thing. A skill you have earned through hard work is more respected than something you are given. Relating to a game example - playing HoN or DotA, you can give a newb the most overpowered hero in the game and then double all their hp and damage scores. Without an idea of WHEN and HOW to use those skills, they are still useless.

Back to OP..
Building a gate seems to be relatively easy once you know how - but just to clarify, a gate can't be built anywhere. The gates were built over pre-existing rifts in the universe. Like the wooden cover over a well.