Vegepygmies...tougher than they look? [3.PF]

[Tanuki Tales]

I discovered a review of "Expedition to The Barrier Peaks" this morning while looking up tips on dungeon building and it inspired me. I've decided to have my party stumble into the remains of a crashed spaceship, thinking it's just the ruins which a strange tentacle beast (a refluffed hydra) escaped from after slaughtering the archaelogists they were hired to help and slaughtering the town.

So I was planning on populating it half with CR 1 Constructs (harmless ship workers), a nasty security droid (refluffed Brass Man) and a large tribe(s) of Vegepygmies.

Now, the group is level 5 and the base races for the setting are a lot more beefy than core (they're somewhat balanced around Drow mechanically) but I noticed something about the mold men.

They may be CR 1/2 but the mold that spawns them and will definitely be around in large quantities is a CR 6 challenge.

Now, a party of 5th level guys will be fine with this, mostly, but that makes these CR 1/2 critters look far more deadly for the parties they're intended to fight in smaller numbers.

[Gnaeus]

They may be CR 1/2 but the mold that spawns them and will definitely be around in large quantities is a CR 6 challenge.

Now, a party of 5th level guys will be fine with this, mostly, but that makes these CR 1/2 critters look far more deadly for the parties they're intended to fight in smaller numbers.

Vegepygmy Oracles were very common in cheesegrinder PF play last year. It was seen as a very economical way to get a wide range of immunities. But that doesn't sound like what you were asking.

It doesn't actually say they have to live near the russet mold. They could wander off. Alternately, 8 vegepygmys is a CR 5 challenge, the mold is CR 6. That sounds like it is in the same ballpark.

[Tanuki Tales]

It doesn't actually say they have to live near the russet mold. They could wander off. Alternately, 8 vegepygmys is a CR 5 challenge, the mold is CR 6. That sounds like it is in the same ballpark.


Vegepygmy tribes live in tightly knit communities and fiercely guard their patches of russet mold. Vegepygmies cannot speak—they communicate via a crude language of rhythmic taps, beats, and clicks. Hunting parties echo these exchanges through the caves they travel. Vegepygmies stand 2 to 4 feet tall and weigh between 15 to 45 pounds.

Approximately 1 in 20 vegepymies are chieftains. A vegepygmy chieftain is an advanced vegepygmy (often one with class levels) that carries an infestation of russet mold spores in its flesh. A vegepygmy chieftain infects any creature it hits with its natural weapons with russet mold spores (see russet mold).

Bolded for emphasis.

I'm speaking more about playing out of the box then with careful DM tailoring. These guys are supposed to be meant to go against lower level parties but that'd have to be raiding parties or stragglers and couldn't be used like, say Goblins or Orcs.

[Gnaeus]

Bolded for emphasis.

I'm speaking more about playing out of the box then with careful DM tailoring. These guys are supposed to be meant to go against lower level parties but that'd have to be raiding parties or stragglers and couldn't be used like, say Goblins or Orcs.



Organization solitary, gang (2–6), or tribe (7–30 plus 1 chieftain)



Organization gang (4–9), warband (10–16 with goblin dog mounts), or tribe (17+ plus 100% noncombatants; 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 20 adults; 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level; 1 leader of 6th–8th level; and 10–40 goblin dogs, wolves, or worgs)


Organization solitary, gang (2–4), squad (11–20 plus 2 sergeants of 3rd level and 1 leader of 3rd–6th level), or band (30–100 plus 150% noncombatants plus 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 10 adults, 1 lieutenant of 5th level per 20 adults, and 1 leader of 7th level per 30 adults)

Looks to me like goblins and orcs, when organized at tribe level, also have threats of CR 6+. Actually, the vegepygmies are rather lower CR, since they have lots less leaders.

[Tanuki Tales]

Looks to me like goblins and orcs, when organized at tribe level, also have threats of CR 6+. Actually, the vegepygmies are rather lower CR, since they have lots less leaders.

But those Orcs and Goblins, at the tribe level, are also more numerous than the Pygmies and have npc foes with obvious, defined class levels.

To compare:

The Goblin tribe would be a CR 9 (assuming lowest numbers listed and weakest choice between mounts).

The Orc band would be a CR 8 (assuming lowest numbers listed).

The Pygmies on the other hand would only be CR 6 (assuming lowest numbers listed and lowest character level for chieftain).

[Those numbers were calculated with WoTC's encounter calculator and use some fudging/guesstimating on the CR for monsters with PC levels].

The Goblin Tribe and Orc Band have npcs with obvious levels of strength and threat and massive numbers compared to their Pygmy fellows. The Pymgy's don't even have the mold factored in unless the DM knows it should probably be factored in and even then he needs to be careful since each patch of mold is CR 6 in itself.

Edit:

In case anyone asks what numbers I mean, here they are:

Goblin Tribe: 31 foes (not assuming a second 3rd level and counting Goblin dogs)

Orc Band: 35 foes.

Vegepygmy Tribe: 8 foes.

[Gnaeus]

Edit:

In case anyone asks what numbers I mean, here they are:

Goblin Tribe: 31 foes (not assuming a second 3rd level and counting Goblin dogs)

Orc Band: 35 foes.

Vegepygmy Tribe: 8 foes.

An orc group of 11 has 2 lts level 3 and a leader of up to level 6, very comparable to the pygmies. The goblin warband does need a massive 17 goblins before it cranks up to more than the Vegepygmies.

If it presents a problem, you are the DM. Say the leader got killed last week. Problem solved.

[CTrees]

If it presents a problem, you are the DM. Say the leader got killed last week. Problem solved.

Or by that tentacle monster. Or the security droid, seeking out the big threats and figuring that the rest of the vegepygmies weren't especially dangerous, and could be safely ignored even if the cheif needed to be eliminated.

[Tanuki Tales]

An orc group of 11 has 2 lts level 3 and a leader of up to level 6, very comparable to the pygmies. The goblin warband does need a massive 17 goblins before it cranks up to more than the Vegepygmies.

If it presents a problem, you are the DM. Say the leader got killed last week. Problem solved.

Except we're not talking about the Goblin War Band or the Orc Squad. We were comparing the 3 tribe levels to each other and the CRs of each.

And this thread was never about what I had planned for my group, it was me noticing that Vegepygmies are more dangerous than their CR takes into account since they'd have the dangerous, CR 6 Russet Mold growing around where you encounter them, especially on a tribal level.