Are there any decent classes that grant Sudden Strike?

[Coidzor]

I've seen it mentioned here and there, but I can't think of anything that actually uses it and isn't panned like the Ninja base class.

[Lateral]

Not that I can think of, no. It's a crappy mechanic- it's like Sneak Attack, only strictly worse and EVEN MORE situational.

[Psyren]

Binder! They can get Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack and Death Attack.

[Coidzor]

Binder! They can get Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack and Death Attack.

Heh. There's a vestige for that, indeed...


Not that I can think of, no. It's a crappy mechanic- it's like Sneak Attack, only strictly worse and EVEN MORE situational.

I was kinda suspecting as much... I do recall it's basically nerfed sneak attack that they came up with for whatever reason. Figured there might be a PrC that was good enough to carry it though. Only other class I can think of other than Ninja is something like Dread Commando...

Were there even any other classes that did it?

[Urpriest]

PrCwise, Avenging Executioner is decently well-regarded.

[Lateral]

Binder! They can get Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack and Death Attack.

Yes, but Malphas is a specific vestige- the whole strength of Binders is that they can switch those up often, so they're very versatile. That doesn't make it a good mechanic. (Plus, its Sudden Strike is barely worth it- it's 1d6 plus one per four binder levels, so it caps out at 6d6.)

[Keld Denar]

Dread Commando, Spellwarped Sniper, and Avenging Executioner are about the best classes that grant it. Other than SWS, though, they aren't that remarkable.

EDIT: if you are using a ranged attack or ranged spell, there is absolutely no mechanical difference between SA and SS. You can't flank with ranged attacks, so you have to catch your foe flat footed.

[Psyren]

Yes, but Malphas is a specific vestige- the whole strength of Binders is that they can switch those up often, so they're very versatile. That doesn't make it a good mechanic. (Plus, its Sudden Strike is barely worth it- it's 1d6 plus one per four binder levels, so it caps out at 6d6.)

I never said it was a good mechanic :smalltongue:
The OP asked for another class with SS, so I gave him one.

Besides, SS explicitly stacks with Sneak Attack, and any target that would be eligible for SS is eligible for SA. Combining both Malphas and Andromalius therefore nets you 11d6 per attack if you go Binder 20, plus other benefits. Malphas also gives you swift Invisibility at later levels, or you can deny your opponent his Dex bonus by other means (Binders have plenty of ways.) One additional vestige, Otiax, gets you at-will touch attacks that you can apply this sneak damage to, and the attacks get iteratives.

Speaking of iteratives, you can PrC into Knight of the Sacred Seal instead of going Binder 20. This increases your BAB to +16 for your 4th attack, without reducing the number of vestiges you can have bound.

[Coidzor]

Dangit Psyren, stop making me want to play new character builds! First ya got me interested in Psionics, then Totemists, and now Binders...x.x

[Darrin]

Dread Commando, Spellwarped Sniper, and Avenging Executioner are about the best classes that grant it. Other than SWS, though, they aren't that remarkable.

Also Ghost-Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer).

Once you have at least 1d6 of sudden strike, you can take Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 to get +4d6 more of it.

[kardar233]

And the combination of Ghost-Faced Killer and Avenging Executioner is theoretically damn nice, though it kinda falls down as GFK is best with maximized Power Attack returns while AE wants lots of attacks to best proc SS.

You might be able to pull it together with Revenant Blade or EWM though.

[Godskook]

Also Ghost-Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer).

Once you have at least 1d6 of sudden strike, you can take Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 to get +4d6 more of it.

Unseen Seer technically counts as being able to grant Sudden Strike, Skirmish, or Sneak Attack. Amusingly, you get better skirmish damage from USS than you do from actually being a Scout.

So, good swordsage by Darrin.

[Psyren]

Dangit Psyren, stop making me want to play new character builds! First ya got me interested in Psionics, then Totemists, and now Binders...x.x

I'm flattered and all, but I think you meant someone else with that middle one. Incarnum isn't my specialty :smalltongue: (Though I do understand it way better now...)

[Coidzor]

Unseen Seer technically counts as being able to grant Sudden Strike, Skirmish, or Sneak Attack. Amusingly, you get better skirmish damage from USS than you do from actually being a Scout.

So, good swordsage by Darrin.

That reminds me, wasn't there some clause of rules text in a sidebar suggesting/stating that one source of precision damage counts as any other for the purposes of prerequisites and classes that progress precision damage but don't grant it?

...Or am I just imagining that?

[Psyren]

That reminds me, wasn't there some clause of rules text in a sidebar suggesting/stating that one source of precision damage counts as any other for the purposes of prerequisites and classes that progress precision damage but don't grant it?

...Or am I just imagining that?

I don't know if that's a general rule, but a specific qualifier along those lines was made for Sudden Strike (CAdv pg. 8.) The Lurk's Psionic Sneak Attack is also identical to the regular kind (CPsi pg. 16.) I don't think a similar ruling was made for other bonus damage types like Skirmish or Psychic Strike.

[gorfnab]

Shadowblade - Tome of Magic
Hand of the Winged Masters - Dragon Magic
Scorpion Wraith - Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik
Fist of Dal Quor - Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona
Crinti Shadow Marauder - Forgotten Realms: Shining South
Dread Fang of Lloth - Forgotten Realms: Drow of the Underdark

[Thrice Dead Cat]

That reminds me, wasn't there some clause of rules text in a sidebar suggesting/stating that one source of precision damage counts as any other for the purposes of prerequisites and classes that progress precision damage but don't grant it?

...Or am I just imagining that?

I believe in either CA or CS that there are rules for SS counting as SA for things like Ambush feats, but I can't find it myself.

[Psyren]

I believe in either CA or CS that there are rules for SS counting as SA for things like Ambush feats, but I can't find it myself.

...I just gave the page number :smalltongue: