Help with a blackguard!

[Laucorn]

Hello everyone I am trying to make a blackguard as one of the villians in a campaign I'm working on my problem is I've never built a blackguard before soooo I'm not sure how to go about it.

The Statistic's I'm giving him are listed Below:

Race: Human
Age: 30
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Strength: 18 (4)
Dexterity: 14 (2)
Endurance: 20 (5)
Intelligence: 12 (1)
Wisdom: 16 (3)
Charisma: 18 (4)

The concept behind the character is at one point he was a Paladin who turned evil. His former pupil is going to be the Paladin of our group so there will be some emotional things going on. Now back to the problem at hand I want him to be a CR10 before I give him anything extra and I need help with the design. Also after the initial Design I will be giving him a special item as part of his arsenal as well as a story piece which will raise his CR past 10 I'm sure.

Special Item:

Ring of Eternal Night
Allows the wearer to cast the following spells.
Searing Darkness 10/day
Darkbolt 10/day
Darkness 5/day

Anyway I need help with picking his level dispersion, feats, armor, and weapons. I want him to focus heavily on Melee combat his spellcasting can be a secondary focus if not at all factored in.

[hex0]

You can turn in your ex-paladin levels for blackguard levels and get nice bonuses, details on the SRD of course.

[Laucorn]

lol it's an npc I'm working on I need build suggestions like feats, and what not.

[Toliudar]

Well, on the assumption that you're initially concealing his identity, having him move around in a cloud of darkness at all times seems appropriate. So, giving him some ability to access blindsight would be useful. Ring of the Darkhidden might also be fun.

Perhaps a few levels of swordsage, for the shadow hand maneuvers and stances. There's wisdom synergy there, and takes care of the bizarre hide requirements for the class.

[Laucorn]

Well, on the assumption that you're initially concealing his identity, having him move around in a cloud of darkness at all times seems appropriate. So, giving him some ability to access blindsight would be useful. Ring of the Darkhidden might also be fun.

Perhaps a few levels of swordsage, for the shadow hand maneuvers and stances. There's wisdom synergy there, and takes care of the bizarre hide requirements for the class.

True...It would fit I suppose but the dex score wouldn't go well with light armor.

But then again he's not going to be hiding a whole lot he's just going to not show his face until its the appropriate time.

[Runestar]

If you have tome of battle, crusader would be my first recommendation.

It's a shame there is no equivalent of a charging smite (PHB2) equivalent for blackguards. :smallfrown:

Complete champion has the awesome smite tactical feat, which lets you do things like ignore dr or trip someone after a smite.

Assuming he was a former paladin11 who traded in to be a ex-paladin1/blackguard10, this gives him 5 feats. In keeping with his backstory, you will want to give him feats which he could use when he was a paladin. Give him a nightmare and make him a mounted charger?

lv1) power attack, mounted combat
lv3) spirited charge
lv6) awesome smite
lv9) some divine feat which burns turn attempts in complete warrior, like divine vigor

As for armour, if you have dragon magic, you could consider making him a silverbrow human. Being dragontouched qualifies him for the dragonscale husk ACF, which is essentially free medium armour (and apparently, it doesn't slow you down).

[deuxhero]

Word of warning, Blackguard isn't very good.

As far as I have worked out from some quick checks on optimizing it to decency, Ambush Drake and Ranger are the only two full BAB classes that don't need to blow a feat for hide. Dread Commando seems like a decent PRC to pair it with (hide in full plate and aura of improved init and sudden strike)

Spell Compendium adds lots of useful utility to them.

Give their companion methods to support the Blackguard without fighting, as they kinda suck. Dragonic Aura and ToB stances come to mind. Hidden talent (Minor Creation) to make the blackguard some poison is a cool idea and opens up a lot of psionic stuff.

[Flickerdart]

If you're partial to multiclassing, Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny combine very well with Blackguard to make a character that has bulletproof saves and beats the enemy's saves down into the ground.

[deuxhero]

Though I feel that combo is best done with a caster partner or someone actually able to make use of SoX effects (you have... Poison). The build does stack well with Dread Commando (though you need some feat burn to get the hide AND move silently, I think Apprentice from DMG2 works).

[Laucorn]

Assuming he was a former paladin11 who traded in to be a ex-paladin1/blackguard10, this gives him 5 feats. In keeping with his backstory, you will want to give him feats which he could use when he was a paladin. Give him a nightmare and make him a mounted charger?

Probably not because then he would not be very good in small spaces like indoors.


If you're partial to multiclassing, Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny combine very well with Blackguard to make a character that has bulletproof saves and beats the enemy's saves down into the ground.

This is an interesting idea indeed but I dono he was a good paladin at one point so I'd have to explain how his classes changed.

This is what I was considering pretty basic 10 Paladin/5 Black Guard. Al

His opponents Level 5 Paladin, Level 5 Fighter, Level 5 Rouge, Level 5 Ranger.

[kardar233]

How about either using Paladin of Tyranny or the Shadowbane Inquisitor trick to avoid dead ex-Paladin levels, then going straight into Bone Knight? All the fancy immunities that Bone Knight gets should make for an interesting boss battle.

[deuxhero]

This is an interesting idea indeed but I dono he was a good paladin at one point so I'd have to explain how his classes changed.



Retraining, PHB2 (it's an excerpt or preview somewhere free)

His foes seem fairly unoptimized though, just what does each of them do? If they hit things in melee/bow without optimization, he could be a challenging foe with just poison from Psionic Minor Creation on the fiendish servant and -6 saves, Black Lotus poison is quite possible a kill on a bad roll (it's 9 con damage average), you can lower threat of death without easeing the encounter by giving him a poison that targets something other than con with otherwise the same effects (0s in those just KO, not kill).

[Laucorn]

Retraining, PHB2 (it's an excerpt or preview somewhere free)

His foes seem fairly unoptimized though, just what does each of them do? If they hit things in melee/bow without optimization, he could be a challenging foe with just poison from Psionic Minor Creation on the fiendish servant and -6 saves, Black Lotus poison is quite possible a kill on a bad roll (it's 9 con damage average), you can lower threat of death without easeing the encounter by giving him a poison that targets something other than con with otherwise the same effects (0s in those just KO, not kill).

I'm considering poisons but I'm not sure I want to make this hard for them but if they died now it would be to easy lol.

As for the characters what their built for is this:

Paladin: Human Meat shield build using stat ups to give him a 22 in con focuses heavily on armor and tower shields.

Fighter: A dual wielding dwarven fighter geared towards maximum damage output possible for this level.

Rogue: A human skill monkey designed to get past doors, and traps with high skill in hide for sneak attacks.

Ranger: Catfolk ranger geared towards long range composite bow attacks into melee.

I might just end up using this for his creation: http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/16716/D-amp-D-3-5-Base-Class-Blackguard

[Human Paragon 3]

blackguard gets sneak attack, which means he qualifies for Staggering Strike. Give it to him!

[Elric VIII]

Consider throwing a level or 2 of Warlock in ther for the Darkness and Darkvision invocations.

[Piggy Knowles]

CR 10 you say? And it needs to be an ex-paladin?

This isn't the most optimized thing in the world, but it should pose a decent challenge to your party...

Human, Ex-Paladin 1/Dragon Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#dragonTotemClassFeatur es) 6/Blackguard 3

Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Blind-Fight, Improved Sunder, Ability Focus (frightful presence) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus), Combat Brute

With your stats, that gives you a DC 19 frightful presence, and all of your PCs get a -2 on the roll thanks to the blackguard's aura. That should keep them frightened/shaken for the duration of the fight. Go after the PCs that didn't make their saves with an adamantine, poisoned reach weapon, as they'll now be making saves with a -4 penalty against poison. Feel free to make liberal use of sundering cleave, especially against things like the ranger's bow or the paladin's tower shield.

Keep a trained dog with you to sniff out any hiding PCs.

[Laucorn]

CR 10 you say? And it needs to be an ex-paladin?

This isn't the most optimized thing in the world, but it should pose a decent challenge to your party...

Human, Ex-Paladin 1/Dragon Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#dragonTotemClassFeatur es) 6/Blackguard 3

Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Blind-Fight, Improved Sunder, Ability Focus (frightful presence) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus), Combat Brute

With your stats, that gives you a DC 19 frightful presence, and all of your PCs get a -2 on the roll thanks to the blackguard's aura. That should keep them frightened/shaken for the duration of the fight. Go after the PCs that didn't make their saves with an adamantine, poisoned reach weapon, as they'll now be making saves with a -4 penalty against poison. Feel free to make liberal use of sundering cleave, especially against things like the ranger's bow or the paladin's tower shield.

Keep a trained dog with you to sniff out any hiding PCs.

This is an interesting idea but I am trying to keep it simple, and not cheesy.

[Piggy Knowles]

This is an interesting idea but I am trying to keep it simple, and not cheesy.

Hmm... I thought that one was kept pretty tame. If a non-Shock Trooper, non-pouncing barbarian with average frightful presence sets of your cheese-o-meter, you probably don't want to hear any of my other thoughts!

[Laucorn]

Hmm... I thought that one was kept pretty tame. If a non-Shock Trooper, non-pouncing barbarian with average frightful presence sets of your cheese-o-meter, you probably don't want to hear any of my other thoughts!

Not so much that as this guy is supposed to be an anti-paladin kind of thing and I don't want him being non-lawful (barbarian) plus I don't have the books with totem barbarians. I also want to stay clear of ranged or reach weapons with this guy. Don't get me wrong its a good build but to me cheese to me is basically anything unusual.

[Gavinfoxx]

Why not just be a Paladin of Slaughter or Paladin of Tyranny going into Blackguard so you can have your cake and eat it too?

[Laucorn]

Why not just be a Paladin of Slaughter or Paladin of Tyranny going into Blackguard so you can have your cake and eat it too?

I've considered that but I dono. Would that still grant the extras for having high levels of paladin?

[Moogleking]

Not so much that as this guy is supposed to be an anti-paladin kind of thing and I don't want him being non-lawful (barbarian) plus I don't have the books with totem barbarians. I also want to stay clear of ranged or reach weapons with this guy. Don't get me wrong its a good build but to me cheese to me is basically anything unusual.

They're all on the d20 SRD, for future reference, along with some other stuff.

Clicky. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian)

I think the most important question is; What do you imagine him doing in combat? Melee charger? Pouncer? Tank? De-buffer?

[Laucorn]

They're all on the d20 SRD, for future reference, along with some other stuff.

Clicky. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian)

I think the most important question is; What do you imagine him doing in combat? Melee charger? Pouncer? Tank? De-buffer?

Melee fighter gets right in there and starts using his sword to deal maximum damage nothing flashy or fancy he's a straight master of the sword. The ring I designed is a story piece and will probably only use it once to get the parties attention as well as to create the darkness tomake the fight more difficult.

[Moogleking]

Melee fighter gets right in there and starts using his sword to deal maximum damage nothing flashy or fancy he's a straight master of the sword. The ring I designed is a story piece and will probably only use it once to get the parties attention as well as to create the darkness to make the fight more difficult.

Pounce is almost essential for this sort of build, you need as much maneuverability as possible, else the party just swarm you and smash your head in.
A few minions (Devils of somesort, perhaps?) can always make fights with Melee characters more interesting, have them fire off de-buffs and stun attacks and what-not, or to serve as flanking buddies.
With the Darkness ring, Blind-Fight is essential, somehow. Warlock evocations, an item of True-Seeing or some-such. No sense having the darkness screw him over as well, after all. You could just DM fiat that out (Which is to say, you're the DM, you say it works, so it does.)
Also, consider giving him extra HP, if not the fight may not last long enough to be exciting.
Consider the use of poisons and such to really hit home how much the characters master has changed.

[Laucorn]

Pounce is almost essential for this sort of build, you need as much maneuverability as possible, else the party just swarm you and smash your head in.
A few minions (Devils of somesort, perhaps?) can always make fights with Melee characters more interesting, have them fire off de-buffs and stun attacks and what-not, or to serve as flanking buddies.
With the Darkness ring, Blind-Fight is essential, somehow. Warlock evocations, an item of True-Seeing or some-such. No sense having the darkness screw him over as well, after all. You could just DM fiat that out (Which is to say, you're the DM, you say it works, so it does.)
Also, consider giving him extra HP, if not the fight may not last long enough to be exciting.
Consider the use of poisons and such to really hit home how much the characters master has changed.

Theres gonna be lots of undead to fight for him plus the whole place their in is treated as a enhanced Desecrate spell has been permanently placed there, and lots of negative energy burst traps. When I picture this guy I picture a Dark Knight heavy armor, big sword lots of nasty damage maybe give his sword the ability to produce poison on its blade with a magical command. The Undead will keep the swarming to a minimum.

I've also updated the ring a bit.

Ring of Eternal Night
Grants the Wearer Dark Vision 60ft, the ability to see in magical darkness, and immunity to Negative energy.
Allows the wearer to cast the following spells.
Searing Darkness 10/day
Darkbolt 10/day
Darkness 5/day

[Moogleking]

Theres gonna be lots of undead to fight for him plus the whole place their in is treated as a enhanced Desecrate spell has been permanently placed there, and lots of negative energy burst traps. When I picture this guy I picture Dark Knights heavy armor, big sword lots of nasty damage maybe give his sword the ability to produce poison on its blade with a magical command. The Undead will keep the swarming to a minimum.

I've also updated the ring a bit.

Ring of Eternal Night
Grants the Wearer Dark Vision 60ft, the ability to see in magical darkness, and immunity to Negative energy.
Allows the wearer to cast the following spells.
Searing Darkness 10/day
Darkbolt 10/day
Darkness 5/day
Spectres could be an interesting choice for the undead; they're weakened by being in Sunlight (Giving the PCs more reason to try and dispel the darkness) and they fly, to avoid being the big guys way.
Maybe having an intelligent sword could be a good idea? Could even be part of the reason why he turned evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm)
That ring looks pretty sweet. May I recommend being super evil (if this ring isn't going to the players at some point...) and making the spells from it Swift Actions? Should ease the action economy a little for him.

[Laucorn]

Spectres could be an interesting choice for the undead; they're weakened by being in Sunlight (Giving the PCs more reason to try and dispel the darkness) and they fly, to avoid being the big guys way.
Maybe having an intelligent sword could be a good idea? Could even be part of the reason why he turned evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm)
That ring looks pretty sweet. May I recommend being super evil (if this ring isn't going to the players at some point...) and making the spells from it Swift Actions? Should ease the action economy a little for him.

Actually theres a whole backstory why he turned evil. The Ring was just the catalyst that made him fall. Its not a relic but its power by unholy energy created by artificer/clerics of Faluzure. ^^ The sword will just have a unique ability

[Moogleking]

Actually theres a whole backstory why he turned evil. The Ring was just the catalyst that made him fall. Its not a relic but its power by unholy energy created by artificer/clerics of Faluzure. ^^ The sword will just have a unique ability

Fair enough, you seem to have your act together :smalltongue:

A spell storing blade with things like Poison could be nasty.

[Laucorn]

Fair enough, you seem to have your act together :smalltongue:

A spell storing blade with things like Poison could be nasty.

Yeah it could now I'm going to have to pick out some feats. Power attack, Improved, Sunder, and Cleave are required but what else.

[Gavinfoxx]

I've considered that but I dono. Would that still grant the extras for having high levels of paladin?

Those classes mean you don't LOSE most of your paladin abilities by falling, because you never fell, AND you also get access to the benefits of the levels of paladin class listed in blackguard. So yes, it is have your cake and eat it too.

[Laucorn]

Those classes mean you don't LOSE most of your paladin abilities by falling, because you never fell, AND you also get access to the benefits of the levels of paladin class listed in blackguard. So yes, it is have your cake and eat it too.

Something to deffinetly consider oh. Heres something I have been working on and if I get it finished and balanced out I might use it for this character.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12302900#post12302900

[darkdragoon]

My default suggestion for any character like this is Martial Study for a Shadow Hand maneuver. First, it solves the Hide problem.

Second, it will make your character much more mobile and/or give them annoying effects.

It also opens up Martial Stance. You probably won't use much more than Assassin's Stance, but a couple of the others could be very thematic. *cough scary looking armor dude that appears to be walking over lava and in a very bad mood cough*


Gear:
Blackguard's Blade: this is from the Book of Vile Darkness, and is about the highest static boost you can find for Smite Good

Deadly precision (+1): more sneak attack. The Complete Adventurer version is twice the cost for double the bonus

Assassination (+1): sneak and and a small bonus if you plan on using poison. it's from one of the Cityscape web enhancements you can find on WOTC's site.

[Gwendol]

Knight 3 to get Bulwark of Defence? Combined with a spiked chain for reach should give both the melee types and the archer ranger some headache.

[Person_Man]

Elder Evils, Exemplars of Evil, Heroes of Horror, and Book of Vile Darkness have a bunch of Vile feats worth looking at. Some of them deal ability damage to you when you use them, which is fixed by taking a level of Binder for the Naberius vestige or using feats or a level of Incarnate for the Strongheart Vest soulmeld, which are also handy if you want to use drugs (which grant a variety of potent effects, but deal ability point damage).

A sampling:

Abominable Form: Living creatures with fewer hit dice then you that can see you must Save or be Shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier. Requires Willing Deformity. Elder Evils pg 11.

Chosen of Evil: As an Immediate Action take a point of Con damage to gain an Insight bonus equal to the number of Vile feats you have (including this one) to any attack, Save, ability check, or Skill check. Elder Evils.

Dark Speech: A potent low level Fear effect that loses effectiveness as your enemies gain hit die. Can also raise caster level by 1, effect item hardness, or command a Swarm. Deals Cha damage to you each time you use it, so again you need a soulmeld or vestige to deal with it. Elder Evils.

Dark Whispers: Augments Dark Speech, making it Confuse enemies with higher HD then you. Elder Evils.

Deformity (Madness): You take a -4 penalty to your Wisdom, but gain immunity to mind-affecting effects. Once per minute you can add 1/2 your character level to any Will Save. Elder Evils pg 13.

Insane Defiance: As an Immediate Action when you are targeted by a Mind Affecting spell or spell like ability, you can take a point of Wis damage to redirect it to another target. Elder Evils pg 13.

Evil Blessing: As a Standard Action you gain a Profane bonus to your Saves equal to your Cha score. This lasts 5 rounds. If you damage to an enemy with a Good subtype or aura (ie, Clerics, Paladins, etc), the bonus is doubled. Elder Evils pg 13.

Maiming Strike: You can trade Sneak Attack damage for Cha damage against your target. Exemplars of Evil pg 25.

Slave to Evil: Gives you/improves an evil aura. As you gain hit dice, benefits improve. Stronger aura can improve existing Spell Resistance against Divine spells by 5, and can prevent Divine spell casting targeted against you. Requires Chosen of Evil feat. Elder Evils pg 14.

Deformity (Tall): +5 reach. Requires Willing Deformity. Heroes of Horror.

Deformity (Teeth): Gain a bite attack. (Natural weapons can qualify for Power Attack, Sneak Attack, Weapon Finesse, etc). Heroes of Horror.

Beloved of Demons: Slay Good or Lawful creature and gain temporary hit points. Exemplars of Evil.


There's also a ton of potent options if you're willing to make your Blackguard a devil/demon of some kind and/or sell his eternal soul.