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DefKab
2011-11-28, 09:07 PM
Alright, I'm gonna try this again, and hopefully I'll get some insightful answers...

To start I am NOT looking for an RPG 'suggestion'.

I'm not looking for what RPG would fit a realm to play in.

What I do want is ideas. I want cool mechanics, and fun playstyles.

I want to look at PIECES of an RPG, and find out what's innovative, and what can be used or modified for other systems.

I want ideas of NEW mechanics for a game, something that hasn't been done the same way before.

I'll start with a few of my examples... I'll take pieces from DnD, Warhammer 40k, and Deadlands...

In DnD (3.5), I like that the layout for character creation is the same for enemies... It makes it comprehensive, and feels like a part of the world. I can identify a monsters stats by the mechanics it uses, because they're the same as mine.

In Deadlands, I like the wounds system. I like that each body part can suffer wounds individually, and that damage is less concrete. A bullet hitting you in Deadlands doesn't necessarily hurt, and if it does, it can scratch, or kill, with the same gun...

And in 40K, I like the element of critical hit tables by body part.
I know it's hard to do well, and after 10 critical leg hits, you're seeing the same thing over and over again, but I like how much description it can add without prompting from the DM. Anything that improves combat descriptions is a + in my book.

So, your turn... What neat elements in an RPG do you like? Also, anybody got an interesting mechanic that they can't seem to place in a full system? What is it?

Delwugor
2011-11-29, 12:51 AM
I really like Stress in Fate (http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html#resolving-attacks) systems. Basically stress is more or less virtual, it doesn't directly mean anything to take stress in combat. But if you take enough stress then you take a Consequence to avoid being "Taken Out" (Defeated, Captured, Killed). Consequences are the real damage taken and can be used against to add further stress to an attack or for other things.
And to keep with the narrative feel of Fate, Consequences are open ended descriptions like "Winded", "Sprained Ankle", "'Tis but a scratch." and of course "It's just a flesh wound."
This mechanism is so simple and flexible that it is also used for Mental and Social conflicts as well as physical.

Totally Guy
2011-11-29, 02:42 AM
Static and Heart Rate in Lacuna.

The actions of the players fill up a "Static jar" that permits the GM to introduce more surreal element into the game.

The Heart Rate of the characters gives the player a finite number of times that they can safely roll the dice. You've really got to prioritise!

Both these things go up and it's kind of a race to see how the players get in trouble.

valadil
2011-11-29, 09:27 AM
Burning Wheel/Mouse Guard

I like that accumulating success and failure is how you advance your skills. GMs give out a certain number of skill checks that you have the opportunity to make, to prevent skill grinding.

ShadowRun

I think the dice pool system is pure genius. Basically you have a number of dice that are free to go anywhere. Every round you take your actions and pick and choose where the extra dice go. It gives you meaningful choices to make every turn.

FATE

Being able to add new aspects to a scene is brilliant. This is the only game I've seen where I'd be happy to play a pacifist in a fight scene. If my character has no combat skills to make use of, I could roll perception to notice the oil slick in the middle of the road. If I make the check, the oil slick is added to the chase scene. Another player can make an action that uses the oil slick I created to get a bonus. This mechanic encourages everyone to take part in every scene and encourages you to be imaginative and creative.

Risus

A character's stats represent what the character is supposed to be able to do in a game. Risus lets you pick your stats. Each stat is a movie cliche. Your character might make his stats Jailbird, Car Mechanic, Baseball Player, and Poet. It's your job to convince the GM that any of those stats applies to whatever action you want to take.

I haven't played Risus yet, so I don't know how it works in practice (and I suspect it's great for one-shots and boring long term) but the idea of variable stats blew my mind when I first read it.

Yora
2011-11-29, 09:36 AM
I was really suprised by Mouse Guard. The system is unlike anything I've seen before. It's not a system in which you use special abilities to defeat enemies in combat but more a system to determine in what direction your actions cause the story to go.
It's also a very elegant system.

I also liked the previes version for the Dragon Age RPG, though I have to admit that since then I completely forgot what it was that it did differently. It's mostly well known concepts, but unified in an interesting way.

Rorrik
2011-11-29, 10:54 AM
I'd like a developed fatigue system, so that the guy wielding the great ax poops out and has to make a will check for each attack after a while of trying to hit the evasive dagger wielder for several rounds. Maybe even take exhaustion damage as muscles tear.

I'd also like a dynamic magic system where rather than a spell list you have a magical "science" and the player can construct spells that work at the DM's discretion.

I'd also be interested in seeing a successful tiered class system. Like a player can begin as a fighter and advance to maybe battle mage, paladin, ranger, berserker, assassin, or bard. A paladin can advance to dragon slayer. Maybe a magic user can advance to illusionist, battle mage, or necromancer, and so on. I think it would add color to characters as a paladin with fighter background could be different from a paladin with clerical background, a necromancer could vary depending on clerical or magic-user background.

I'm working on incorporating these into a homebrew system.

Jay R
2011-11-29, 11:32 AM
Flashing Blades: A musketeer game with five different dueling styles, so Spaniards slash more while Italians thrust more, and French style has more parries.

Flashing Blades: Each character must choose one Advantage (Title, Wealth, Lackey, Contact, etc.) and one Secret (Secret Loyalty, Secret Identity, Blackmailed, Sworn Vengeance, etc.) This gives the ability to tailor adventures to the players much more straightforwardly.

Pendragon: Every virtue has an accompanying vice. If you have a courage of 13, then you have a Cowardice of 20-13 = 7. Based on your actions, they will go up or down over time.

En Garde!: Just the shell of a game, really, but it has one excellent mechanic. When you go up a social level, the money you spend on general living must go up as well, or you drop back down to the lower level. You can become a baron, but if your clothes and food budgets don't go up proportionately, you don't get the social benefits.

Stomp!: Just a board game of elves vs. a giant. But the Giant is represented by two counters which are shoes, each of which takes up as much ground as two elves.

Knaight
2011-11-29, 11:35 PM
I'd like a developed fatigue system, so that the guy wielding the great ax poops out and has to make a will check for each attack after a while of trying to hit the evasive dagger wielder for several rounds. Maybe even take exhaustion damage as muscles tear.
This makes no sense. Unless you are in the unfortunate position of having brought heavy tools never made for combat into a fight - sledgehammers, axes made for chopping wood, so on and so forth - having a heavier weapon isn't going to make you wear out meaningfully faster. If anything, it is the guy with the dagger forced to dodge all the time who tires out fastest. Back to topic:

Fudge/Fate: The trait ladder is outright brilliant. That something like "Great Swordsman" is a meaningful mechanical term is innovative in and of itself, that this same trait ladder applies to everything from skills to difficulties to item qualities makes it outright impressive.

Cortex: The skill system in Cortex grows in specificity as one advances a skill. One might have only Science d6, but past that you would have Chemistry d8 (while still having Science d6). It is elegant, intuitive, and minimizes min maxing.

ORE: The ORE dice system consists of rolling a handful of d10s, and looking for matches. This produces sets with 2 meaningful values, the number on the set, and the number of dice in the set, which translate to how well and how quickly an action is performed. In and of itself, that is elegant. Moreover, there are Expert and Master dice, assigned to whatever number you want before or after the roll (depending), that can easily simulate having a bit of an edge, or always doing well unless there are mitigating factors. For instance, everyone has a master die in their native language, and because of how languages work, that means perfect communication between 2 native speakers in typical circumstances. However, in areas where there is some penalization, linguists with no master dice but more dice will start to exceed them because they have studied the language, even if they don't intuitively know it.

Chronica Feudalis: CF has four subsystems that cover combats, parleys, subterfuges, and chases. It breaks from the combat centrism, and does so in an elegant manner. Moreover, the way it is written is elegant, intuitive and really quite clever at inspiring the setting.

Fudge (Again): Fudge has a mechanic called Scale, which is a quantified size/mass system. It is logarithmic, which leads to it working at all scales in a particular game - if two giants start decking each other, it will be effectively the same as if two humans do, because the size difference is wrapped up in the elegant scale mechanic, instead of in HP and Damage and Reach and Size like certain other games.

Trekkin
2011-11-30, 12:30 AM
Spirit of the Century's empowerment of Academic characters to Declare Minor Details, and of Mysteries-using characters to tell fortunes that are somehow true. I just love it when players can in some small way tweak my world, especially when those tweaks are permanent, because they're usually a superb means by which to put them on the spot later.

Edge of Dreams
2011-11-30, 12:49 AM
I'd like a developed fatigue system, so that the guy wielding the great ax poops out and has to make a will check for each attack after a while of trying to hit the evasive dagger wielder for several rounds. Maybe even take exhaustion damage as muscles tear.

I'd also like a dynamic magic system where rather than a spell list you have a magical "science" and the player can construct spells that work at the DM's discretion.

I'd also be interested in seeing a successful tiered class system. Like a player can begin as a fighter and advance to maybe battle mage, paladin, ranger, berserker, assassin, or bard. A paladin can advance to dragon slayer. Maybe a magic user can advance to illusionist, battle mage, or necromancer, and so on. I think it would add color to characters as a paladin with fighter background could be different from a paladin with clerical background, a necromancer could vary depending on clerical or magic-user background.

I'm working on incorporating these into a homebrew system.

You should check out "Runequest II", the almost-most-recent edition of Runequest by Mongoose Publishing (they're republishing it as "Legend" now, but it's 99% identical to Runequest II). Characters start making endurance checks after a set number of combat rounds to determine if they become fatigued.

For a tiered class system, look at FantasyCraft from CraftyGames. There's a bunch of base classes with 20 levels each (such as Burglar, Soldier, Mage, Priest), "Expert" classes with 10 levels each that you can only take if you're 5 or higher and meet other pre-reqs (such as Paladin, Rune Knight, Alchemist, or Deadeye Sniper), and "Master" classes with 5 levels each that you can only take if you're already 10 or higher.

Xefas
2011-11-30, 04:37 AM
Apocalypse World: Social rolls work differently between NPCs and PCs. Against another player, you roll, and if you succeed, you don't convince them of anything. You state what you'd like to convince them of, and they get to choose if they're convinced or not. If they say 'yes', they get experience.

There is a similar mechanic in place for player versus player combat. Shooting another player gives them experience.

They're both a bit more nuanced than just that, but that's the gist. It's a nice way to avoid the hurt feelings that sometimes creep their way into inter-party conflict when the guy getting screwed over is getting a lot more shiny new stuff in exchange.

Kill Puppies For Satan: "Two people hate you. One of them's your mother."

By which I mean making a roleplaying document fun to read. I've run into a hefty number of D&D players who barely know enough of the rules to get by with the GM (who is the one geek, like me, who memorized everything) holding their hand through most rolls. And I can't blame them! The books read like a freaking furniture instruction manual.

I would read through any Vincent Baker game, even if I never planned to play it, because they're just fun and easy to read. I feel this is an important design point, even though it's outside what you might consider 'game mechanics'. If your players quote the book like it's Monty Python, things just go smoother at the table.

Knaight
2011-11-30, 05:03 AM
Kill Puppies For Satan: "Two people hate you. One of them's your mother."

By which I mean making a roleplaying document fun to read. I've run into a hefty number of D&D players who barely know enough of the rules to get by with the GM (who is the one geek, like me, who memorized everything) holding their hand through most rolls. And I can't blame them! The books read like a freaking furniture instruction manual.

I would read through any Vincent Baker game, even if I never planned to play it, because they're just fun and easy to read. I feel this is an important design point, even though it's outside what you might consider 'game mechanics'. If your players quote the book like it's Monty Python, things just go smoother at the table.
Chronica Feudalis is similar. It is written as if it is a translation of a document made by a bunch of 12th century monks who invented role playing games, contains references to "David, son of Arne" and "Gary of Geneva", and is in general fun to read. "Actually, Brother Thomas always plays a nun, but we shall not judge him..." and similar are scattered throughout the text, maintaining levity.

valadil
2011-11-30, 09:54 AM
By which I mean making a roleplaying document fun to read. I've run into a hefty number of D&D players who barely know enough of the rules to get by with the GM (who is the one geek, like me, who memorized everything) holding their hand through most rolls. And I can't blame them! The books read like a freaking furniture instruction manual.


The Dresden Files RPG is fantastic at this as well. The book is presented as a rough draft of the RPG written by one of the story's characters, with commentary in the margins from the other characters.

DefKab
2011-11-30, 10:47 AM
This is great guys... We're really getting into what I wanted.

It's good to look at the elements that people love in RPGs.

When looking to design a social game, it's important to make it entertaining and fun for everyone, but that's difficult to do when blinded by your own preference.

Looking here, I have a whole list of way to do things different than what I'm used to, and I can really pick and play with several styles until it feels right...

Unfortunately, you guys know some pretty obscure games, so it's kind of hard to look them up.
But you explain them splendidly.

Keep it up!

Yora
2011-11-30, 11:10 AM
There aren't that many mainstream games and those who are are pretty much the standards of RPG design. Which means that you won't find unusual and innovative designs among them. :smallbiggrin:

Kazyan
2011-11-30, 11:57 AM
I've looked at some of an SRD for FATE, and it's the first game I've seen that rewards you for not min-maxing your flaws. In DnD or White Wolf games, you're rewarded a flat amount for taking a flaw, and then it's left alone. FATE does the opposite: a hindering aspect doesn't give you any points to start out with, but you get a fate point (buy pluses on important rolls with these), if you choose to have that aspect hinder you.

It's brilliant for narrativist games, suitably opposite of gamist DnD. I'm going to steal the idea. But considering all of the recommendations for FATE in this thread, I wonder if I'm not just reinventing the system. :smalltongue:

Rorrik
2011-11-30, 12:02 PM
You should check out "Runequest II", the almost-most-recent edition of Runequest by Mongoose Publishing (they're republishing it as "Legend" now, but it's 99% identical to Runequest II). Characters start making endurance checks after a set number of combat rounds to determine if they become fatigued.

For a tiered class system, look at FantasyCraft from CraftyGames. There's a bunch of base classes with 20 levels each (such as Burglar, Soldier, Mage, Priest), "Expert" classes with 10 levels each that you can only take if you're 5 or higher and meet other pre-reqs (such as Paladin, Rune Knight, Alchemist, or Deadeye Sniper), and "Master" classes with 5 levels each that you can only take if you're already 10 or higher.

This sounds kind of like what I'm looking for, I'll definitely look into it.


This makes no sense. Unless you are in the unfortunate position of having brought heavy tools never made for combat into a fight - sledgehammers, axes made for chopping wood, so on and so forth - having a heavier weapon isn't going to make you wear out meaningfully faster. If anything, it is the guy with the dagger forced to dodge all the time who tires out fastest.
You may be right, maybe the dagger wielder tires faster. In my experience(with a sledgehammer, yes) you get winded much faster than playing, say handball or racquetball, which I estimate is more near the dagger wielder's level of activity. Weapons aside, a man in plate mail should tire faster than one in leather.
Edit:Unless the man with the slower weapon is wearing heavy armor, he'll have to be dodging at least as much as our dagger man, probably more.

Totally Guy
2011-11-30, 12:14 PM
FATE does the opposite: a hindering aspect doesn't give you any points to start out with, but you get a fate point (buy pluses on important rolls with these), if you choose to have that aspect hinder you.

I love the presence of this kind of thing in the games I play.

Knaight
2011-11-30, 12:17 PM
I love the presence of this kind of thing in the games I play.

It is an elegant mechanic, though it is all over the place by now. That said, Aspects are a pretty old concept, given the article Hicks published in the Fudge Factor E-Zine, so they might have been among the first iterations of it.

The Reverend
2011-11-30, 12:19 PM
If I remember correctly the old warhammer fantasy rpg had a nice parry mechanic. You get X number of attacks a round.
Guy tries to hit you and succeeds, before he rolls damage you can use one of your attacks from the next round and roll your attack, if its better than his you parry his attack if not he rolls damage. Either way you loose an attack the next round.

Magic system -- oWOD Mage the Ascension. You have nine spheres, magical effects you can generate, and five possible dots in each sphere. one being the most basic awareness of the sphere and five is mastery of it. You combine the spheres to generate different magical effects. Want to read that persons thoughts, two dots in mind. Want to read someone thoughts across the city, mind 2 correspondence 3.

valadil
2011-11-30, 12:37 PM
I'm going to steal the idea. But considering all of the recommendations for FATE in this thread, I wonder if I'm not just reinventing the system. :smalltongue:

When I read FATE was when I lost 90% of the motivation to write my own game. It accomplished what I wanted to, better. Ironically I was also considering FATE as a title, which is what led me to the FATE RPG - I was googling my name ideas to see which were available.

TheThan
2011-11-30, 02:11 PM
FATE: I love Everything about this system. Spirit of the Century has pretty much become my official favorite RPG.

DnD 4E: what I love about it that when you want to do a cool combat maneuver, you simply activate it; actually using the mechanics is easy (as opposed to 3.5). In theory it makes combat dynamic and fun. But instead the at will/encounter/daily system they used makes the combat boring and repetitive.

D20 modern/ Star Wars Saga : I love the talent system in these two games. It breaks away from the “class=occupation” mentality of DnD and really gives you the capacity to focus your character while still maintaining the core of your character class.

BESM: I love the character creation system, its so totally open ended and dynamic “almost” any sort of character for any sort genre can be built.

DnD 3.5: I love how the game has become so vast. To use a metaphor, DnD 3.5 is a massive toolbox. it's loaded with all sorts of tools that you can use for world building and character creation.

Totally Guy
2011-11-30, 05:50 PM
Fiasco rewards the accumulation of multiple successes or multiple failures. You ultimately come out of a situation by succeeding everything or failing everything. As it's a "heist gone wrong" style story it's completely genre appropriate.

You either choose to initiate a scene, describing the start and then the group gets to choose your destiny, or you choose to resolve in which your friends set up the scene but in which the resolution is yours.

I've not played it yet. But hopefully that'll change this weekend. :)

stainboy
2011-11-30, 08:31 PM
Apocalypse World: Social rolls work differently between NPCs and PCs. Against another player, you roll, and if you succeed, you don't convince them of anything. You state what you'd like to convince them of, and they get to choose if they're convinced or not. If they say 'yes', they get experience.

There is a similar mechanic in place for player versus player combat. Shooting another player gives them experience.

They're both a bit more nuanced than just that, but that's the gist. It's a nice way to avoid the hurt feelings that sometimes creep their way into inter-party conflict when the guy getting screwed over is getting a lot more shiny new stuff in exchange.


What kind of nuances? I'm sure there's some reason you can't powerlevel each other with social checks, but what?

Jallorn
2011-11-30, 11:16 PM
Mutants and Masterminds: I like that Power Level and Power Points can be separate, you can allow for powerful characters without permitting them to be impossibly powerful - they simply become more versatile instead.

D20 Modern: I like the base classes - they don't focus on roles, so much as literally the raw skills the character has, devoid of any fluff.

Arbane
2011-12-01, 12:13 AM
Spirit of the Century's empowerment of Academic characters to Declare Minor Details, and of Mysteries-using characters to tell fortunes that are somehow true. I just love it when players can in some small way tweak my world, especially when those tweaks are permanent, because they're usually a superb means by which to put them on the spot later.

Similarly, Adventure!'s Dramatic Editing, where you could spend a few Luck Points (or equivalent) to say, "I manage to grab one of the tow-lines before I fall off the zeppelin!" or "but it turns out that the guard on my cell is the brother of the girl I rescued last adventure!", and the GM has to roll with it if it'll keep the story moving.

Exalted's Stunts. Describe what you're doing in a flashy and impressive way, and you get _rewarded_ for it instead of getting more delicious chances for utter failure.

Weapons of the Gods' Chi Conditions. The game uses the same system for being cursed, socially manipulated, or sick - you get a reward if you play along with the condition (faster chi recovery, a bonus on skills, even XP if it's REALLY majorly inconvenient), and a penalty if you defy it.

I've seen a few systems where Disadvantages are things you have to BUY - but you get XP whenever having them screws up your character's life.