+1 level of existing class

[hushblade]

What does this phrase mean in terms of a prestige class? Note it doesn't say spellcasting class, just class. What class features would be included here?

[Cog]

Most sources of that text go into further detail about what they mean. Are you looking at Uncanny Trickster, Legacy Champion, or something else?

[Fax Celestis]

Anything given to you by a class that isn't HD, BAB, saves, or skills, basically.

[hushblade]

I was looking at Human paragon.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

For human paragon, it means that your spell casting increases as though you'd taken a level in another spell-casting class you already had. Suppose you took your first level as a wizard and then started taking levels in human paragon; when you take human paragon level 2, you gain the spells per day of a level 2 wizard, even though you technically only have one wizard level.

[hushblade]

How would it apply to say, warblade? Would the second two levels count as 1 innitiator level each? Would they grant new maneuvers and class features?

Most classes that advance spellcasting explicitly say "+1 level of spellcasting existing class" not just "existing class"

[Eldest]

Spells per Day
At 2nd and 3rd level, a human paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of human paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a human paragon, he must decide to which class he adds each level of human paragon. If a human paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect.

So you gain more spells per day, spells known, and increases caster level for whichever spellcasting class he had. So if you had a Bard 4/Human Paragon 2, he would cast as a Bard 5. But if you had a Rogue 4/Human Paragon 2, there would be no boost to sneak attack, because the table only mentions spells.
Edit: Or with the above Warblade example, you would only gain the 1/2 IL that is usual.

[Cog]

Basically, this is an example of Text Trumps Table. The table says that Paragon progresses an existing class, but the text associated with it specifies that it only progresses spellcasting, and so it only progresses spellcasting.

[hex0]

How would it apply to say, warblade? Would the second two levels count as 1 innitiator level each? Would they grant new maneuvers and class features?

Most classes that advance spellcasting explicitly say "+1 level of spellcasting existing class" not just "existing class"

RAW it only advances spellcasting. Generally though, you could ask your DM to apply it to Psionics, Initiating, Truenaming, or whatever. It wouldn't break the game.

If not, then at least Paragon levels count as full initiator classes since they aren't non-initiating base classes. You could make a decent build from a spellcasting class, human paragon, warblade, and JPM this way.

Also, I'd suggest that Gnome paragon can choose Illusionist or Bard. Has anyone done this?

[hex0]

How would it apply to say, warblade? Would the second two levels count as 1 innitiator level each? Would they grant new maneuvers and class features?

Most classes that advance spellcasting explicitly say "+1 level of spellcasting existing class" not just "existing class"

RAW it only advances spellcasting. Generally though, you could ask your DM to apply it to Psionics, Initiating, Truenaming, or whatever. It wouldn't break the game.

If not, then at least Paragon levels count as full initiator classes since they aren't non-initiating base classes. You could make a decent build from a spellcasting class, human paragon, warblade, and JPM this way.

Also, I'd suggest that Gnome paragon can choose Illusionist or Bard. Has anyone done this?

[Coidzor]

RAW it only advances spellcasting. Generally though, you could ask your DM to apply it to Psionics, Initiating, Truenaming, or whatever. It wouldn't break the game.

If not, then at least Paragon levels count as full initiator classes since they aren't non-initiating base classes. You could make a decent build from a spellcasting class, human paragon, warblade, and JPM this way.

Come to think of it, I'm totally going to go with that as part of my own body of houserules...


Also, I'd suggest that Gnome paragon can choose Illusionist or Bard. Has anyone done this?

Decided I'd allow it? Yes. Had it ever actually come up? No.


Hmm, since most of them are just for spellcasting classes (aside from human paragon) that don't get much in the way of class features anyway, there really much that would happen from making the paragons fall more in line with the uncanny trickster model? Aside from the ones that don't grant any progression already either being even more blown out of the water or having to have a progression for some thematic class added on.

[Prime32]

On top of the table being a summary and not a description...

Note it doesn't say spellcasting class, just class.It's in the column "Spells per day". :smalltongue:

[Glimbur]

I was looking at Human paragon.

If it helps, I homebrewed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8718476&postcount=6)some variants on Human Paragon. Depends on if your DM likes homebrew, but it's less... shall we say zany than most of my work.

[Venger]

in general, that means that it will allow you to progress either arcane or divine casting (like malconvoker or human paragon) rather than just arcane (like sandshaper) or just divine (like radiant servant of pelor)

what everyone else said is also true. since there are few psionic prcs, many arcane prcs include "change arcane spell to psionic power and you can use it for them too" but it can be applied to most any prc.