Iron Maiden (Improvised Weapon)

[Dulenheim]

So, I was talking to a few friends a while ago, and I suggested that I could make a Goliath for the next campaign, later today I got a chance to read the Book of Vile Darkness, and noticed the Iron Maiden Torture Tool.

So, here is what my friends and I came up with: A Spiked Iron Maiden that had a chain which could be held to use the maiden as a flail. Effectively, the maiden weights 250 pounds, which a Goliath could carry was medium load (and somehow wave it around).

How much damage could that do? one of my friends said 6d6, but that seems off somehow. :smallconfused:

[SamBurke]

So, I was talking to a few friends a while ago, and I suggested that I could make a Goliath for the next campaign, later today I got a chance to read the Book of Vile Darkness, and noticed the Iron Maiden Torture Tool.

So, here is what my friends and I came up with: A Spiked Iron Maiden that had a chain which could be held to use the maiden as a flail. Effectively, the maiden weights 250 pounds, which a Goliath could carry was medium load (and somehow wave it around).

How much damage could that do? one of my friends said 6d6, but that seems off somehow. :smallconfused:

I'd work from the falling rules with its weight, and how many times you'd swing it in circumference. If you were feeling extra-nerdy, calculate and make sure the CENTRIPETAL force doesn't pull your body as you swing.

Once speed/distance/force is calculated, compare to gravity, and input.

[ClothedInVelvet]

Umm... Isn't an Iron Maiden effectively a coffin? It's got spikes and such on the inside (for torture), but I can't see that swinging it around would be particularly effective.

[Dulenheim]

Umm... Isn't an Iron Maiden effectively a coffin? It's got spikes and such on the inside (for torture), but I can't see that swinging it around would be particularly effective.

well, the idea is that the maiden will have spikes on the outside, and since its already a big piece of metal, slamming things against it (or, with it in this case) could end up in deathly injuries.

Besides, the maiden can be locked, if wished to be used as a blunt weapon. But lets say that a character is somehow able to swing it. while it's open.

If the character is strong enough (which goliath's are), the force of the swing should not only keep the maiden's case open, but anything or anyone that is hit by the open case takes piercing damage from the spikes inside the maiden, and could end up trapped in the spikes (logically they should be killed by the spikes, but I haven't made the calculations of the speed at which the spikes of the maiden would meet the body of an stationary person.)

[Diefje]

Even if you can swing it as a weapon, the chances that you actually get someone inside it are very slim. Since the spikes are on the inside, most of the time they will hit the edges and thus only blunt. However, you could rule that on a confirmed crit you get the "person is trapped in the maiden" special instead of critical damage (have some spring mechanism inside that when someone is slammed in, it automatically shuts).

Also, I'd probably rule that you'll be using the Two-handed hurl rules from Hulking Hurler. Meaning you have to use both hands, and it takes a full-round to attack once.

[Dulenheim]

Even if you can swing it as a weapon, the chances that you actually get someone inside it are very slim. Since the spikes are on the inside, most of the time they will hit the edges and thus only blunt. However, you could rule that on a confirmed crit you get the "person is trapped in the maiden" special instead of critical damage (have some spring mechanism inside that when someone is slammed in, it automatically shuts).

Also, I'd probably rule that you'll be using the Two-handed hurl rules from Hulking Hurler. Meaning you have to use both hands, and it takes a full-round to attack once.

Makes Sense. Perhaps a character with high enough str and the size category large could get a feat on later levels to use the maiden as a standard action instead of a full round one. I like the idea of the critical.

But, now, what would be an accurate DR for such a monstrosity? considered the weight of it alone.

[ClothedInVelvet]

I don't see why you're talking about the Iron Maiden at all. It'd probably be better to make a Mithril block with spikes all over the outside. Or even iron if you want it heavier. The damage you do will be proportional to its mass, but its mass is going to be the limiting factor in swinging it.

That's a better weapon and makes a lot more sense. It would deal bludgeoning or piercing damage, probably in line with a greatly oversized flail. It basically is a flail.

[Darrin]

How much damage could that do?

Complete Warrior p. 159, "Improvised Weapon Damage". 250 lbs = 5d6. Add spikes on the outside so it counts as a "sharp" object doubles the effective weight, so 500 lbs... extrapolating another category above 400 lbs, yeah, 6d6 is about right.

[noparlpf]

Reminds me of the "Dire (Badger) Flail". Dire Badger hits target, starts raging, mauls target for extra damage.

Anyway, I'd say it's probably like an exotic huge/gargantuan heavy flail. So probably 3d8 or 4d8, or maybe 4d6 or 5d6. Maybe up to 6d6, but that seems like it's a bit on the high end.

[Dulenheim]

I don't see why you're talking about the Iron Maiden at all. It'd probably be better to make a Mithril block with spikes all over the outside. Or even iron if you want it heavier. The damage you do will be proportional to its mass, but its mass is going to be the limiting factor in swinging it.

That's a better weapon and makes a lot more sense. It would deal bludgeoning or piercing damage, probably in line with a greatly oversized flail. It basically is a flail.

well... the short reason is, obviously, rule of cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) + Faux Symbolism (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxSymbolism)

Besides, its fun. Can you imagine a Zealous Goliath going around the kingdom slaying criminals with a gigantic Iron maiden? Gotta be awesome.



Complete Warrior p. 159, "Improvised Weapon Damage". 250 lbs = 5d6. Add spikes on the outside so it counts as a "sharp" object doubles the effective weight, so 500 lbs... extrapolating another category above 400 lbs, yeah, 6d6 is about right.

Thanks for the guide :3 exactly what i was looking for.


Reminds me of the "Dire (Badger) Flail". Dire Badger hits target, starts raging, mauls target for extra damage.

Anyway, I'd say it's probably like an exotic huge/gargantuan heavy flail. So probably 3d8 or 4d8, or maybe 4d6 or 5d6. Maybe up to 6d6, but that seems like it's a bit on the high end.

I think Huge or large is more accurate...if you put a human in a gargantuan iron maiden i think it does nothing. making it a variation of a flail seems a better idea than an improvised weapon. though it would require the exotic prof. all the same.

[ClothedInVelvet]

well... the short reason is, obviously, rule of cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) + Faux Symbolism (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxSymbolism)

Besides, its fun. Can you imagine a Zealous Goliath going around the kingdom slaying criminals with a gigantic Iron maiden? Gotta be awesome.


Are we talking about the same thing?

First, in order to fit the Rule of Cool, it has to be cool. That leads to your second point. And I have to admit, I can't imagine that at all. Especially since the Iron Maiden was never used that way. It would make a lot more sense to swing something around that makes a bit more sense.

For the record, this is the iron maiden:
http://www.occasionalhell.com/infdevice/images/imaiden01.jpg

Does swinging that around really sound awesome?

[Slipperychicken]

Since hitting something with a weapon, even an improvised one, doesn't deal damage to the weapon itself, you can weild a literal iron maiden (read: warforged) to better effect, because she/it would also get actions, and you could get it to weigh more. If you want it to deal comparable base damage, from weight, have it take the obese deformity so it weighs 400+ pounds, max out its inventory, and get it armor spikes. Not to mention you might look *less* silly hitting people with a fat, spiked, female-minded robot on a chain.

[Venger]

Since hitting something with a weapon, even an improvised one, doesn't deal damage to the weapon itself, you can weild a literal iron maiden (read: warforged) to better effect, because she/it would also get actions, and you could get it to weigh more. If you want it to deal comparable base damage, from weight, have it take the obese deformity so it weighs 400+ pounds, max out its inventory, and get it armor spikes. Not to mention you might look *less* silly hitting people with a fat, spiked, female-minded robot on a chain.

willing deformity (obese) on an iron maiden because it's human shaped?

I tip my hat to you, good sir. make sure you awaken it or make it intelligent first (so it can havve an int score) and thus take those two feats.

[noparlpf]

I think Huge or large is more accurate...if you put a human in a gargantuan iron maiden i think it does nothing. making it a variation of a flail seems a better idea than an improvised weapon. though it would require the exotic prof. all the same.

Well, it would be an iron maiden designed to contain medium creatures (humans), right? So that's a large object, and probably a gargantuan weapon (you have to be gargantuan or count as it to wield it). So a Goliath with Strongarm Bracers could wield it normally, I guess.

[Makiru]

Honestly, the easier way to go about this is to just carry around the iron maiden, optimize for grappling, and just shove enemies in during combat. Just set it to minimal if you want to keep him around for a while, or terminal if you want that guy dead right that second.

Or, instead of major grapple specialization, put in a bit of spiked chain expertise to trip people up and make it easier to transfer into the maiden. That way, you can keep both parts of the "flail" without having to use an improvised weapon. Besides, a flat 50 damage a round is going to be a lot more than even the max on 6d6+Strength.

[DarkestKnight]

I started reading thinking this was about a bard build focused on heavy metal. while this is not that, I think Eddy would approve. The badger flail idea cracked me up. the only thing i've ever seen similar is a throw ally/bloodstorm blade character with a grappling-build friend. suddenly all the enemies are in one grapple with a really angry bear. As to using the iron maiden, Makiru seems to have got the right of it.
Kudos for making my day.

[Slipperychicken]

willing deformity (obese) on an iron maiden because it's human shaped?

I tip my hat to you, good sir. make sure you awaken it or make it intelligent first (so it can havve an int score) and thus take those two feats.

Nonono. It's a Warforged: a living, thinking, feeling creature. The pun is that it would actually be a Maiden Made Out Of Iron.

[The Succubus]

A little note on torture methodology:

The Iron Maiden's primary purpose was not to inflict pain and damage with the spikes, or not directly anyway. A person placed inside an Iron Maiden would *just* have sufficient space to stand perfectly up right without being spiked. However, as the person grew tired or weak from being forced to stand perfectly still for a long period of time, their body would start to sag, and then the spikes would come into play. Essentially, the majority of the torture comes from muscle fatigue, combined with an element of claustrophobia, rather than an extreme acupuncture session.

Don't ask me how I know this.

[Venger]

A little note on torture methodology:

The Iron Maiden's primary purpose was not to inflict pain and damage with the spikes, or not directly anyway. A person placed inside an Iron Maiden would *just* have sufficient space to stand perfectly up right without being spiked. However, as the person grew tired or weak from being forced to stand perfectly still for a long period of time, their body would start to sag, and then the spikes would come into play. Essentially, the majority of the torture comes from muscle fatigue, combined with an element of claustrophobia, rather than an extreme acupuncture session.

Don't ask me how I know this.

oh, it's cool, everyone (except the dudes who wrote BoVD) knows this, doesn't make you weird

[The Succubus]

oh, it's cool, everyone (except the dudes who wrote BoVD) knows this, doesn't make you weird

That's a relief. I was worried you were going to start asking questions about what I have in my cellar.