Being a craftsman with just skillpoints

[Reaver225]

So.

tl;dr version playing in low-magic low technology tribal world with no prestige classes, what fun things can I invest skillpoints into for crafting and what can I do with these skills? Starting from low level (1-2).

Right! The actual background behind this: I'm going to be joining a new campaign soon as a player in an old world tribal campaign (think no metal nomadic or otherwise agrarian culture up on a volcano) with a low emphasis on magic - wizard is out, sorcerer is frowned upon unless there's a good roleplaying reason and Cleric and druid is... actually those two are in, but I'll pass (for the most part).

I've elected myself to be skillmonkey and have gone for a basic Scout class instead of Rogue as I don't see much dungeoneering happening (unfortunately my DM doesn't like prestige classes too much so not too much swapping... I'll see if I can't get a (cloistered?) cleric dip in for healing/free devotion feats or possibly travel devotion feat, but that's not that important). So, oodles of skillpoints. Probably going to go for a Greater Manyshot build if I can get the travel devotion in.

Now, due to the low-culture, tribal nature of the world, there's going to be a great call for crafting and making our own stuff. However, without handy access to metals or magic, it's going to be difficult to get access to most of the items from the magic item compendium or others sorts of stuff.

1/3 Money for Items crafting rules are probably going to be waived for simplicity to whatever we can carry as it's going to be a barter society anyway, and we're going to be scavenging off the land for the most part instead of buying items.

Now, what I must ask. What sort of alchemical or simple or mundane or otherwise skills should I put points into? I've been thinking of craft: Traps, arms and armour and alchemy, as well as the basic search/listen/hide/move silently/tumble and a few knowledge skills for a sneaky shooty knowledge devotion scout.

What can I make?

How can I make a ballista that I crafted move 10/20 feet and shoot with it to get skirmish damage? (I still haven't given up on this idea.)

[vitkiraven]

So.

tl;dr version playing in low-magic low technology tribal world with no prestige classes, what fun things can I invest skillpoints into for crafting and what can I do with these skills? Starting from low level (1-2).

Well, if you do not have any metal at all, you can go Bowyer/Fletcher and fint-knapping, just to get weaponry, and leatherworking to get the armor and clothing type stuff. Both craft type skills.


Right! The actual background behind this: I'm going to be joining a new campaign soon as a player in an old world tribal campaign (think no metal nomadic or otherwise agrarian culture up on a volcano) with a low emphasis on magic - wizard is out, sorcerer is frowned upon unless there's a good roleplaying reason and Cleric and druid is... actually those two are in, but I'll pass (for the most part).

I take back the flint knapping. Focus on Obsidian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian#Current_use). It's sharper than steel. Seriously!


I've elected myself to be skillmonkey and have gone for a basic Scout class instead of Rogue as I don't see much dungeoneering happening (unfortunately my DM doesn't like prestige classes too much so not too much swapping... I'll see if I can't get a (cloistered?) cleric dip in for healing/free devotion feats or possibly travel devotion feat, but that's not that important). So, oodles of skillpoints. Probably going to go for a Greater Manyshot build if I can get the travel devotion in.

Sounds solid, Ranger would also be a solid choice for that build, if you are limited to a set number of classes to multiclass into.


Now, due to the low-culture, tribal nature of the world, there's going to be a great call for crafting and making our own stuff. However, without handy access to metals or magic, it's going to be difficult to get access to most of the items from the magic item compendium or others sorts of stuff.

Very true, but there are some things, consider the Atlatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlatl), a device that can easily simulate distance on a ranged object. :smallbiggrin:


1/3 Money for Items crafting rules are probably going to be waived for simplicity to whatever we can carry as it's going to be a barter society anyway, and we're going to be scavenging off the land for the most part instead of buying items.
Well, if you are bartering for raw materials, or even using skills to get access to raw materials, maybe a profession (wood-cutter) or (obsidian harvester), to help out with it?


Now, what I must ask. What sort of alchemical or simple or mundane or otherwise skills should I put points into? I've been thinking of craft: Traps, arms and armour and alchemy, as well as the basic search/listen/hide/move silently/tumble and a few knowledge skills for a sneaky shooty knowledge devotion scout.
Alchemical is hard unless you swing the cloistered cleric. The Alchemical lab is hard to acquire without glass or steel. Check into the Masters of the Wild, they take about Druids using Alchemy in there, and that might help in that regard. One thing to consider is Craft: Tool, make all of the tools to make other crafting (and other skills) easier. Craft: Seamstress or Tailor can make the masterwork Hide or Move Silently (maybe even Diplomacy, or tumble if you can explain it away enough).
If there is a barbarian in the group, or a ranger type, maybe have them focus on the traps (with the survival for traps variant?) but knowledges can definitley be a good thing for the knowledge devotion feat.:smallsmile:


What can I make?

How can I make a ballista that I crafted move 10/20 feet and shoot with it to get skirmish damage? (I still haven't given up on this idea.)
A cart or wagon and some horses? Its not sneaky, but it would get the move up to whatever you wanted it to be to activate the skirmish damage.

Hope some of that helps!

[Reaver225]

Thanks for the reply! I believe my friend is heavily influenced by both minecraft and Dwarf Fortress so obsidian is a definite on my list of materials, as is glass and wood, but I hadn't thought about how to gather all of it. I might get a druid friend who can help with the wood side, but obsidiansmithing might be something to put some points into (I wonder if lava threatens you enough that taking 10th isn't an option...)

Atatl seems like a very effective weapon given the age, I've found some provisional stats online and will look through books to find sources foe it. I'll also look more into older weapons, any more pearls of wisdom in terms of weapons or the like?

Light leather armour and hide should be easy, as would be spears with obsidian tips. Making my own tools is a very good idea, too, especially with the whole "bootstrap yourself up" mindset.


cartAh, yes, mounted artillery, the best thing in Rome: Total War.

Thanks, I was still in "unseen seer/rogue sneak attack" mode. Skirmishing on horseback or on a cart would be a lot easier.

[vitkiraven]

(Typing from android so can't include links)
Well, for harvesting glass, obviously beaches with lightning is a good source. Obsidian should probably be harvested cold. Since one's wouldn't be auto fumbles on profession, you shouldn't have too many problems with lava, if you look in cold lava beds.
As for ancient style weapons, there is ths sharktooth sword and other things from d20, maybe some stuff from frostburn. Check out Hawaiian and south pacific non-metal weaponry.
also, arms and equipment has more nonmetal armor (check out arms and armor 3.5 for nonwotc stuff)
What about using the skirmish damage as part of charging builds? Rhino tribe from faerun book would rock with it.

[JackRackham]

Well, it's your DM's call, but cloistered cleric doesn't seem to fit the setting. Where would you be 'cloistered?' What books are you studying? Honestly, in this setting, I'd use Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman, rather than cleric and druid, as cleric and druid imply a level of social organization that would seem anachronistic. Sorcerer would also seem okay, except that you said he's trying to keep it relatively low-magic. Regardless, w/o arcane magic, you'll want to be more cognizant of mundane items (ROPE, hammer, nets, improvised drills, etc). That's my 2 cents.

EDIT: For that matter, in a stone age setting, would mules/horses be domesticated? It seems unlikely. Would they have invented carts? I don't think so. I'd personally think more along the lines of dogs (domesticated MUCH earlier) and sleds. Also, keen mind that w/o arcane magic, extra-dimensional storage space probably doesn't exist and as a scout you can't carry a medium load in combat, so you'll definitely want SOMETHING.

[Reaver225]

Well, it's your DM's call, but cloistered cleric doesn't seem to fit the setting. Where would you be 'cloistered?' What books are you studying? Honestly, in this setting, I'd use Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman, rather than cleric and druid, as cleric and druid imply a level of social organization that would seem anachronistic. Sorcerer would also seem okay, except that you said he's trying to keep it relatively low-magic. Regardless, w/o arcane magic, you'll want to be more cognizant of mundane items (ROPE, hammer, nets, improvised drills, etc). That's my 2 cents.Cloistered Cleric in this case would probably be refluffed to shamanistic learnings, teachings of the ancestors, lots of listening to old folk yak on at you and learning how to sit patiently while undergoing drug-related trances and tripping out - I mean, going on spirit journeys.

Learnings from ancient Vellum scrolls, crude writings of the shamanistic gods, the spirits of nature and the like (which also incidentally would mean from a metagame perspective I'd be able to get to pick and choose my domains. I think I'll pass on trying to swing Elf domain, though).

I was thinking of the character in question being groomed to be the Wise Man of their village but only doing so unwillingly, picking up some divine connections but more knowledge and teachings of the tribe and how to do some alchemy and medicinal knowledge rather than "suddenly, connection with god".

Unfortunately, from an optimization standpoint, both Favoured Soul and Spirit Shaman don't actually get the awesomeness of domains/devotions like the travel devotion to trigger skirmish and the knowledge devotion for +to hit, which spoils the whole point of taking a dip in the first place (apart from being able to heal a bit, but not very much).

It's amazing what a little refluffing can allow you to contort. Would you allow that as a sort of cloistering?

EDIT: Also, skillpoints. Delicious, delicious skillpoints. I can't live without my skillpoints.

[Alefiend]

See if you can convince the GM to include the Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) feat from Pathfinder. It provides +2 on relevant Craft skills, and lets your skill ranks substitute for caster level for purposes of Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item. You could fluff these items as super-duper masterwork instead of magic if necessary.

[JackRackham]

I might allow it if a player was really set on it. I'd probably really put some more thought into it and rework the class as a whole (probably reworking the spell list a bit as well). I'd assume you're worshipping some kind of nature spirit or the like. I'm in danger of digression, but basically, yeah, I could make it work. I know my friend (the other guy who DMs in our group) probably wouldn't though. If you did this in my group, I'd definitely expect you to roleplay it though ;)

[Reaver225]

Master Craftsman, eh? A nice feat to be sure, but how would I get the spells for crafting? No magicmart on a volcano, after all.

Edit: and yes, it's intended to be roleplay heavy. I'd have to get my spirit-talking voodoo face on, certainly.

I've always liked seeing how I can refluff classes to fit unconventional roles while still fitting the general theme of it. As a one-level dip, though, actual crunch alterations need not be big. Invisible servant? A spirit helper. Identify? The spirit of the artifact speaks to me! And so on and so on.