ToB maneuvers worth taking Martial Study for.

[NOhara24]

I currently play a Paladin 4/Crusader 2/RKV 5, and I'm thinking about taking leadership, and then feats to buff my leadership score. However, before I do that, are there any more maneuvers that I should pick up? I know about Iron Heart Surge, but what about stuff like Shadow Jaunt?

[Cieyrin]

White Raven Tactics is a go-to and the Shadow teleport chain is good stuff. Mountain Hammer and its bigger brothers are always a nice option if you need to make a sudden entrance or just feel the need to emulate the Kool Aid Man. The save replacing chain from Diamond Mind can save your ass, especially if you max Concentration. Wall of Blades can keep your ass safe from attacks of doom.

Really, though, you should just have a look through and decide for yourself what you think. It really depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about it.

[Talionis]

Dave the Giant Weasel put this out so you can see how many pre-requisites each maneuver has so you know what you can reasonably get.

Bloodlines (UA/SRD) and Initiator Level: Section coming soon...

Choosing maneuvers can be an arduous process. I recommend that you draw up a rough list of desirable maneuvers on scrap paper in advance, then construct a table with Initiator level down one column, a column for each initiating class in the build, and then denote where new maneuvers are gained (e.g. I place "+1", "+2", "Swap", "Stance", etc in the various squares). Then I work to slot the various maneuvers I want into the appropriate slots, before going back through and latering levels to change Initiator Level progression if needed and fit in prerequisite maneuvers that are needed.

While doing this I always have the following table open in front of me on my screen in order to quickly check the number of prerequisites for each maneuver (far better list than the one in the book). In fact, its so useful that I'm copying and pasting it wholesale from the Tricks/Combos/Library Thread:

Maneuvers Organized by # of Pre-Reqs, Alphabetized, School, & Level
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Level 1
Blistering Flourish (Strike, 0)
Burning Blade (Boost, 0)
Distracting Ember (Boost, 0)
Flame’s Blessing (Stance, 0)
Wind Stride (Boost, 0)
Level 2
Burning Brand (Boost, 0)
Fire Riposte (Counter, 1)
Flashing Sun (Strike, 1)
Hatchling’s Flame (Strike, 1)
Level 3
Death Mark (Strike, 0)
Fan the Flames (Strike, 1)
Holocaust Cloak (Stance, 1)
Zephyr Dance (Counter, 1)
Level 4
Firesnake (Strike, 2)
Searing Blade (Boost, 2)
Searing Charge (Strike, 1)
Level 5
Dragon’s Flame (Strike, 2)
Leaping Flame (Counter, 2)
Lingering Inferno (Strike, 2)
Level 6
Desert Tempest (Strike, 2)
Fiery Assault (Stance, 2)
Ring of Fire (Strike, 2)
Level 7
Inferno Blade (Boost, 0)
Salamander Charge (Strike, 3)
Level 8
Rising Phoenix (Stance, 3)
Wyrm’s Flame (Strike, 3)
Level 9
Inferno Blast (Strike, 5)Level 1
Crusader’s Strike (Strike, 0)
Iron Guard’s Glare (Stance, 0)
Martial Spirit (Stance, 0)
Vanguard Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 2
Foehammer (Strike, 0)
Shield Block (Counter, 0)
Level 3
Defensive Rebuke (Boost, 1)
Revitalizing Strike (Strike, 1)
Thicket of Blades (Stance, 1)
Level 4
Divine Surge (Strike, 1)
Entangling Blade (Strike, 1)
Level 5
Daunting Strike (Strike, 1)
Doom Charge (Strike, 1)
Law Bearer (Strike, 1)
Radiant Charge (Strike, 1)
Tide of Chaose (Strike, 1)
Level 6
Aura of Chaos (Stance, 2)
Aura of Perfect Order (Stance, 2)
Aura of Triumph (Stance, 2)
Aura of Tyranny (Stance, 2)
Rallying Strike (Strike, 2)
Level 7
Castigating Strike (Strike, 2)
Shield Counter (Counter, 2)
Level 8
Divine Surge, Greater (Strike, 2)
Immortal Fortitude (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Strike of Righteous Vitality (Strike, 3)Level 1
Moment of Perfect Mind (Counter, 0)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Strike, 0)
Stance of Clarity (Stance, 0)
Level 2
Action Before Thought (Counter, 0)
Emerald Razor (Strike, 1)
Level 3
Insightful Strike (Strike, 0)
Mind Over Body (Counter, 0)
Pearl of Black Doubt (Stance, 1)
Level 4
Bounding Assault (Strike, 2)
Mind Strike (Strike, 2)
Ruby Nightmare Blade (Strike, 2)
Level 5
Disrupting Blow (Strike, 2)
Hearing the Air (Stance, 2)
Rapid Counter (Counter, 0)
Level 6
Insightful Strike, Greater (Strike, 2)
Moment of Alacrity (Boost, 2)
Level 7
Avalance of Blades (Strike, 3)
Quicksilver Motion (Boost, 3)
Level 8
Diamond Defense (Counter, 0)
Diamond Nightmare Blade (Strike, 3)
Stance of Alacrity (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Time Stands Still (Strike, 4)Level 1
Punishing Stance (Stance, 0)
Steel Wind (Strike, 0)
Steely Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 2
Disarming Strike (Strike, 0)
Wall of Blades (Counter, 0)
Level 3
Absolute Steel Stance (Stance, 1)
Exorcism of Steel (Strike, 1)
Iron Heart Surge (Other, 1)
Level 4
Lightning Recovery (Counter, 2)
Mithral Tornado (Strike, 2)
Level 5
Dancing Blade Form (Stance, 2)
Dazing Strike (Strike, 2)
Iron Heart Focus (Counter, 2)
Level 6
Iron Heart Endurance (Boost, 2)
Manticore Parry (Counter, 2)
Level 7
Finishing Move (Strike, 3)
Scything Blade (Boost, 3)
Level 8
Adamantine Hurricane (Strike, 3)
Lightning Throw (Strike, 2)
Supreme Blade Parry (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Strike of Perfect Clarity (Strike, 4)Level 1
Counter Charge (Counter, 0)
Mighty Throw (Strike, 0)
Step of the Wind (Stance, 0)
Level 2
Baffling Defense (Counter, 1)
Clever Positioning (Strike, 0)
Level 3
Devastating Throw (Strike, 1)
Feigned Opening (Counter, 1)
Giant Killing Style (Stance, 1)
Level 4
Comet Throw (Strike, 1)
Strike of the Broken Shield (Strike, 2)
Level 5
Mirrored Pursuit (Counter, 2)
Shifting Defense (Stance, 2)
Soaring Throw (Strike, 2)
Stalking Shadow (Counter, 2)
Level 6
Ballista Throw (Strike, 2)
Scorpion Parry (Counter, 2)
Level 7
Hydra Slaying Strike (Strike, 3)
Level 8
Fool’s Strike (Counter, 3)
Ghostly Defense (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Tornado Throw (Strike, 5)Level 1
Child of Shadow (Stance, 0)
Clinging Shadow Strike (Strike, 0)
Island of Blades (Stance, 0)
Shadow Blade Technique (Strike, 0)
Level 2
Cloak of Deception (Boost, 0)
Drain Vitality (Strike, 1)
Shadow Jaunt (Other, 0)
Level 3
Assassin’s Stance (Stance, 1)
Dance of the Spider (Stance, 0)
Shadow Garrote (Strike, 0)
Strength Draining Strike (Strike, 1)
Level 4
Hand of Death (Strike, 0)
Obscuring Shadow Veil (Strike, 2)
Level 5
Bloodletting Strike (Strike, 2)
Shadow Strike (Other, 0)
Step of the Dancing Moth (Stance, 2)
Level 6
Ghost Blade (Strike, 3)
Shadow Noose (Strike, 0)
Stalker in the Night (Strike, 0)
Level 7
Death in the Dark (Strike, 0)
Shadow Blink (Other, 0)
Level 8
Balance on the Sky (Stance, 3)
Enervating Shadow Strike (Strike, 3)
One With Shadow (Counter, 3)
Level 9
Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike (Strike, 5)Level 1
Charging Minotaur (Strike, 0)
Stone Bones (Strike, 0)
Stonefoot Stance (Stance, 0)
Level 2
Mountain Hammer (Strike, 0)
Stone Vise (Strike, 0)
Level 3
Bonecrusher (Strike, 3)
Crushing Weight of the Mountain (Stance, 1)
Roots of the Mountain (Stance, 0)
Stone Dragon’s Fury (Strike, 1)
Level 4
Bonesplitting Strike (Strike, 2)
Boulder Roll (Boost, 4)
Overwhelming Mountain Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 5
Elder Mountain Hammer (Strike, 2)
Giant’s Stance (Stance, 2)
Mountain Avalance (Strike, 2)
Level 6
Crushing Vice (Strike, 0)
Iron Bones (Strike, 2)
Irresistable Mountain Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 7
Ancient Mountain Hammer (Strike, 3)
Colossus Strike (Strike, 2)
Level 8
Adamantine Bones (Strike, 3)
Earthstrike Quake (Strike, 2)
Strength of Stone (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Mountain Tombstone Strike (Strike, 0)Level 1
Blood in the Water (Stance, 1)
Hunter's Sense (Stance, 1)
Sudden Leap (Boost, 1)
Wolf Fang Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 2
Claw at the Moon (Strike, 0)
Rabid Wolf Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 3
Flesh Ripper (Strike, 2)
Leaping Dragon Stance (Stance 1)
Soaring Raptor Strike (Strike, 1)
Wolverine Stance (Stance, 1)
Level 4
Death From Above (Strike, 1)
Fountain of Blood (Boost, 2)
Level 5
Dancing Mongoose (Boost, 2)
Pouncing Charge (Strike, 2)
Level 6
Rabid Bear Strike (Strike, 2)
Wolf Climbs the Mountain (Strike, 2)
Level 7
Hamstring Attack (Strike, 3)
Prey on the Weak (Stance, 2)
Swooping Dragon Strike (Strike, 3)
Level 8
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (Boost, 3)
Raging Mongoose (Boost, 3)
Wolf Pack Tactics (Stance, 2)
Level 9
Feral Death Blow (Strike, 4)Level 1
Bolstering Voice (Stance, 0)
Douse the Flames (Strike, 0)
Leading the Attack (Strike, 0)
Leading the Charge (Stance, 0)
Level 2
Battle Leader’s Charge (Strike, 1)
Tactical Strike (Strike, 1)
Level 3
Lion’s Roar (Boost, 1)
Tactics of the Wolf (Stance, 1)
White Raven Tactics (Boost, 1)
Level 4
Covering Strike (Boost, 1)
White Raven Strike (Strike, 1)
Level 5
Flanking Maneuver (Strike, 2)
Press the Advantage (Stance, 2)
Level 6
Order Forged From Chaos (Other, 2)
War Leader’s Charge (Strike, 2)
Level 7
Clarion Call (Boost, 3)
Swarming Assault (Strike, 3)
Level 8
Swarm Tactics (Stance, 1)
White Raven Hammer (Strike, 3)
Level 9
War Master’s Charge (Strike, 4)
Thank wingedcoyote for contributing this useful organizational scheme

And finally, here is CustServ's rather counter-intuitive ruling on order of swapping and qualifying maneuvers:
Oddly enough, according to CustServ, you can qualify for maneuvers and stances according to the maneuvers you have when beginning, but also when finishing.

Ex:
Level 3: Wolf Fang Strike
Level 4: Wolf Fang Strike => Wall of Blades

Assuming you have no other Tiger Claw nor Iron Heart maneuvers, you can still take either Punishing Stance (Iron) or Blood in the Water (Tiger) as your 4th level stance, even though you lose Wolf Fang Strike (Tiger) and gain Wall of Blades (Iron).

This is an instance of you choosing the order as benefits you most.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2008, 09:57:05 AM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »