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Madeiner
2011-11-30, 04:20 PM
Hi there guys.

I'd like to have a little bit of help in creating a special puzzle.

The PC's will soon enter a special puzzle section of a dungeon, where they have to, well, solve puzzles that are mostly similar to Portal (but without the portal gun).
The first few puzzles are very easy, then there is a story break, and then a "final" puzzle that is deemed impossible by design.

The puzzles are in a series of interconnected metal rooms. The puzzles are managed by a computer. Magic is avalaible (but can be blocked by the room, if necessary). Teleportation magic is nonfunctional due to a device that captures all teleport attemps and sends the teleport to a special room.

The party is 13th level, and i've got a sorcerer (gaseous form, disintegrate are possible problematic spells) and a cleric.

The puzzle should have one pretty evident solution: the group has a magic item they know has a function in this dungeon.
They have 2 little boxes the size of a netbook case. As long as they are within one mile of each other, you can put an item inside one box, and you can retrieve it from the other. They must use these boxes to solve the puzzle

I know having one specific solution is not usually good in puzzles, but it is an optional puzzle and they know they have an item that can help them. The puzzle is also clearly marked as "impossible", so they know they have to cheat it somehow, or turn back.


Can you help me out?

I have thought of only one possibility, which i don't like much:



The main room has 2 small side rooms with impervious iron doors (think submarine doors). There is a key on a pedestal in the main room. A far door is locked, and can only be opened when the 2 switches inside the side rooms are activated.

The side room switches can be activated with the key. If you activate the mechanism with the key, one of the locks on the far door is unlocked, but the door of the side room closes behind you. You can remove the key freely, but if you want to exit the side room, you need to activate the switch again, thereby re-locking the far door. By teleporting the key outside the room with the boxes, two people can safely unlock the far door.

I don't like this solution at all, though :(

eulmanis12
2011-11-30, 06:35 PM
Say the folowing.

"You see a gigantic stone door, easily 30 feet tall. There is a single key hole on the door. Next to the door is a pedistal with an inscription that reads, Unlock the treasure inside the cube to open the door. The cube is on the pedestal."
Then hand them a rubik's cube and tell them to solve. When the solve it say.
"the cube shatters into thousands of tiny pieces, leaving a brass key in your hand. the key fits the lock, as you turn it, the door opens"

This is a task that is clearly solveable, but also very difficult.

Alternativly. Go with a riddle,

"In london lies a knight A Pope interred, whose life's work the wrath of church incurred. who is the knight."

Answer:Sir Isaac Newton's study of calculus and gravity caused the anger of the church. When he was burried his good friend Alexander Pope (A Pope) presided at the funeral because not clergyman would do it.
(this riddle is from the Davinci Code)

Howler Dagger
2011-11-30, 06:54 PM
Is it only the sorceror and cleric? I have an idea, but it is built for two people.

Zale
2011-11-30, 06:59 PM
Have an indestructible door (And walls) that only opens to a certain key phrase. One that the PCs would never say.

"Goblins are people too, and should not be wantonly slaughtered for our combat training!"

"I will sell my magic weapons and donate the money to charity! Then I shall start a farm and live out my life in peace and security."

"Hey guys, Let's not steal the Dragon's horde."

So on and so forth..

Dr.Epic
2011-11-30, 07:10 PM
I remember this one puzzle. A knight had to move from one end of a board to another, but the knight could only move in a manner similar to the way a knight in chess moves.

There's also the puzzle of you have to a body of water, but the vessel can only hold like two people, and you have to carry them over in a precise order of not leave two people alone together.

valadil
2011-11-30, 09:29 PM
I vote for misdirection. You need something that looks like a hard to solve puzzle. When they solve it they get a token reward. The real puzzle was something far more subtle that they never guessed was a puzzle at all. If you're crafty you can do a few different layers of this sort of thing at once.

Jerthanis
2011-12-01, 12:54 AM
The way many of Portal 2's puzzles were solvable depended on the extensive decay which had taken hold of the facility, so one simple way to make an unsolvable puzzle that has a solution is if the puzzle truly is unsolvable, except they can put the Sorcerer in a position he can leverage disintegration.

Alternatively, without let's say we had this unsolvable problem: A door which opens only when you present its front with its back. It could be that this was unsolvable when the walls were completely intact, since this room negated magic but time has worn away one of the walls, allowing access to a tiny ledge hanging out over nothingness which if you brave, you find a window into the other room. Creating the illusion of a mirror or series of mirrors allows you to bounce the image of the back of the door through the window, back into the original room through the worn away wall, and to the front of the door, thus presenting the door with its own back and unlocking it.

Madeiner
2011-12-01, 02:18 AM
I thank you for your replies.
However it seems like no one has caught the point of the puzzle, which has one possible solution based on a magic item.
The group has 4 people in it, btw.

The puzzle should have one pretty evident solution: the group has a magic item they know has a function in this dungeon.
They have 2 little boxes the size of a netbook case. As long as they are within one mile of each other, you can put an item inside one box, and you can retrieve it from the other. They must use these boxes to solve the puzzle

meschlum
2011-12-01, 03:45 AM
Easy option:

The final door can only be opened with the proper key. This key is hidden within one of three holes in the wall, each covered by an aura of weird (even prismatic) colors.

Living things touching the auras are blasted in a rather destructive manner, and objects (or blasted people) are transported elsewhere as they reach the last layer of the aura. All the holes are empty, should the auras be dispelled.

Two of the auras transport intruders (or items) into another plane, horrible deathtrap, or what have you. One of them transports its victims into a very small storage space - quite full, so anything large that goes in is redirected into another plane / trap zone. If one of the magic boxes is put inside, it will fit, and the key will fall inside. Which makes it useless for anyone without a way to get the contents of the box, of course.

This way loses one of the boxes, but otherwise works - with the extra bonus of tossing the players into unexpected trap zones / other planes, and possibly forcing them to wait for the aura to reset if they try dispelling them.


Moderate option:

The place is really a massive dwarven engineering project, part of one of their great Fortresses. Among the remnants of ships that have been killed in their sleep, the party can find a few very finely cut cogs, all identical. Exploring further reveals that the final door can only be opened if the machinery enabling this is repaired and activated. Finding the control room is challenging, but not impossible. It contains a lever.

Pulling the lever does nothing.

Going over the machinery linked to the lever, the party realizes that parts of it are missing, in many places. Fortunately, the cogs they found seem to fit in perfectly. Unfortunately, they don't have enough cogs. Searching the mountain with a fine toothed comb will reveal a few more cogs (still not enough) and a bill of sale for "125 widgets, leaving 17 in inventory" to an elven kingdom that has since been consumed by a volcanic eruption.

The party realizes it has exactly 17 widgets, and needs 18.

Studying the machinery, they'll notice that it takes a while for a triggered mechanism to transfer the message. Still, even the fastest among them cannot outrun the machine. If they place the boxes at the places where widgets are missing that are the furthest apart, they can have someone pull the lever, wait for the first widget to activate, then pass it on to the last place.

Thus allowing the door to open, for a short period. Incidentally, the control room will be flooded with water full of carp soon after the lever is successfully pulled, and the doors in will slam shut. But that's a normal part of doing business.


Complex option:

Insert 12-dimensional scribblings that destroy your sanity here.

Funkyodor
2011-12-01, 03:53 AM
How about make it a circular room divided into 3 sections like pie wedges with doorways connecting the rooms. The doorway between 2 of the wedges is open and can be locked manually from both sides. You can play up the obvious "indestructibility" by adding exaggerated details of pits, scars, and dents on its surface. Each of those wedges has a door leading into the third wedge. A single key is in one of the open rooms. The key can be inserted into the locked door in that room, but will not turn unless all the doors are closed and locked. After turning the key in one of the super secret doors, it obviously unlocks 1/2 the bars/locks on both the doors leading to the secret room, and the door connecting the rooms cannot unlock. Super "cheaty box" the key to the other room which will unlock both doors, then save vs. instantaneous one round stinking cloud effect as both rooms become one in a visual displacement waver and the room becomes sqaure. The super "cheaty box" can work or not from then on if you want.

Tyndmyr
2011-12-01, 10:28 AM
Say the folowing.

"You see a gigantic stone door, easily 30 feet tall. There is a single key hole on the door. Next to the door is a pedistal with an inscription that reads, Unlock the treasure inside the cube to open the door. The cube is on the pedestal."
Then hand them a rubik's cube and tell them to solve. When the solve it say.
"the cube shatters into thousands of tiny pieces, leaving a brass key in your hand. the key fits the lock, as you turn it, the door opens"

This is a task that is clearly solveable, but also very difficult.

What? I would solve this with a levitate and an open lock check.


Alternativly. Go with a riddle,

"In london lies a knight A Pope interred, whose life's work the wrath of church incurred. who is the knight."

Answer:Sir Isaac Newton's study of calculus and gravity caused the anger of the church. When he was burried his good friend Alexander Pope (A Pope) presided at the funeral because not clergyman would do it.
(this riddle is from the Davinci Code)

Not really a riddle, more like a trivia question. Also, not very appropriate unless it's set in the real world.


Have an indestructible door (And walls) that only opens to a certain key phrase. One that the PCs would never say.

"Goblins are people too, and should not be wantonly slaughtered for our combat training!"

"I will sell my magic weapons and donate the money to charity! Then I shall start a farm and live out my life in peace and security."

"Hey guys, Let's not steal the Dragon's horde."

So on and so forth..

Yes, introduce indestructible items. No PCs will ever abuse them. Not only is this a "screw your disintegrate" puzzle, it offers the PCs a way to do the same thing themselves later.

Also, this is not a puzzle. This is a "guess the arbitrary words I have in my head" game. It's not very fun.


I remember this one puzzle. A knight had to move from one end of a board to another, but the knight could only move in a manner similar to the way a knight in chess moves.

I think this needs a lot more detail, or it sounds...extremely easy.


There's also the puzzle of you have to a body of water, but the vessel can only hold like two people, and you have to carry them over in a precise order of not leave two people alone together.

It's a classic, but like all classics, it's not improbable that someone will have encountered it before.


I thank you for your replies.
However it seems like no one has caught the point of the puzzle, which has one possible solution based on a magic item.
The group has 4 people in it, btw.

The puzzle should have one pretty evident solution: the group has a magic item they know has a function in this dungeon.
They have 2 little boxes the size of a netbook case. As long as they are within one mile of each other, you can put an item inside one box, and you can retrieve it from the other. They must use these boxes to solve the puzzle

Thats an extremely useful item...but why must it be used specifically for this puzzle?

The decay based suggestion was good, for example.


How about make it a circular room divided into 3 sections like pie wedges with doorways connecting the rooms. The doorway between 2 of the wedges is open and can be locked manually from both sides. You can play up the obvious "indestructibility" by adding exaggerated details of pits, scars, and dents on its surface. Each of those wedges has a door leading into the third wedge. A single key is in one of the open rooms. The key can be inserted into the locked door in that room, but will not turn unless all the doors are closed and locked. After turning the key in one of the super secret doors, it obviously unlocks 1/2 the bars/locks on both the doors leading to the secret room, and the door connecting the rooms cannot unlock. Super "cheaty box" the key to the other room which will unlock both doors, then save vs. instantaneous one round stinking cloud effect as both rooms become one in a visual displacement waver and the room becomes sqaure. The super "cheaty box" can work or not from then on if you want.

Damage does not suggest indestructibility to me.

This does have the same problem of offering the PC possible exploitable things.

Emmerask
2011-12-01, 11:30 AM
Hmmmm I have the fun idea of escape artisting through the box :smallbiggrin:

Since its a pretty high check dc80+ most likely you will need another item which gives a one shot +xx escape artist.

In the wall is a tiny hole large enough for one of the boxes, if inserted the box falls down into another room, now you can escape artist through the box to reach that room which solves the puzzle ^^


Pretty hard to solve:

Alternatively how about a cube (as in the movie) use your computer to calculate the current room configuration and create a fairly simple algorithm by which the rooms move so that after n cycles the initial configuration is achieved.

The starting room has a pedestal where a data crystal fits in nicely (which they find also in the first room).
If inserted the pedestal glows with green light for 30 secs then goes dark again.

On closer inspection they find that each room is numbered and also a note with another number on it (the number of the second room with a pedestal in it) and the dimension of the cube (x,y, maybe z).
Now if they manage to calculate the algorithm its pretty easy to plot the path to the second room.

The second rooms pedestal has a similar slot for the crystal and behaves exactly the same but they only have one crystal. So they must use the boxes to swiftly get the crystal to the other room and use it there too.

Once done the configuration changes so that both the rooms are next to each other the doors open and another door opens to the treasure and exit.

/edit oh and to discourage randomly running around to find the second room, use some very minor traps that deal perhaps 1 hp dmg or so.