Dwarf me

[Alefiend]

After the heroic sacrifice of my character in slaying a baby Elder Evil and deciding said character would choose not to accept a resurrection, I need to replace myself. I've decided to see if my fellow Playgrounders could suggest some cool ideas so I'm not just playing the same dude again anyway.

First, the character I'm replacing: Stieg, the human male Fighter-8 (we're a low- to no-op party, as you'll see below) with an awesome adamantine warhammer—several enchantments, completely blowing away WBL. Skilled in brawling, by way of Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Improved Overrun—these were used for some of the greatest moments in the campaign, so don't knock me for having 'em. :smalltongue: Smart (Int 14), strong (Str 18), mostly very cynical due to back story issues. He identified more with his real profession (smith) than the one forced upon him by said back story. He had recently been accepted as an honorary clan member of a dwarven city-stronghold, essentially a dwarf in a human body, and planned to retire there once the campaign ended. His actions there, and throughout the campaign, made him into a respected hero, something of a legend, and there will likely be a shrine built to him in the city where he gave his life.

Campaign events are such that it is easiest for me to work in a replacement from the dwarf clan who honored him. We're ending the campaign in an ancient silver mine where another eldritch horror has been nesting, driving the events of the game. Normally this would not be a problem, as I love to play dwarves. The problem is, the character I played was very similar to what I would have done as a dwarf, and while I can manage to roleplay a different personality, I am coming up short on mechanical ideas. I want something different, but still able to fill the battle roles Stieg did—damage sponge, smasher of skulls, tactical leader (though I can do this OOC), and utility player/monkey wrench.

The party, as mentioned before, is a mostly unoptimized crew, all now level 9. We're not likely to get much further than this.

Half-elf druid princess who specializes in elemental summons and BoED spells, and her Cooshee animal companion
Scythe-wielding human paladin of the non-evil god of death, mounted on a pegasus
Human rogue/sorcerer who was trying for Arcane Trickster
Human wizard with a shady past; she recently joined so we don't know all her capabilities, but there's a fair mix of blasting and battlefield control
Human cleric of the sun god; only joined us last session so I have no idea what he can do; player is very experienced and is awesome at oratory


Allowed sources: Pretty much all the official WotC 3.5 material except Dragon magazine stuff, and likely Tome of Battle as well. It's not that the GM doesn't want melee to have nice things, but the guy playing the paladin nearly broke the climax of another campaign with a gnome swordsage played like Yoda—hence he's somewhat gun shy. :smallbiggrin: I can probably use feats from ToB, including Martial Study and Stance, but I doubt I can use any initiator classes; consider them off the table unless I say otherwise.

So, any ideas?

[Darrin]

First, the character I'm replacing: Stieg, the human male Fighter-8 (we're a low- to no-op party, as you'll see below) with an awesome adamantine warhammer—several enchantments, completely blowing away WBL. Skilled in brawling, by way of Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Improved Overrun—these were used for some of the greatest moments in the campaign, so don't knock me for having 'em.


I'm sorry, but I must know... how did you possibly find a use for Improved Overrun?

[Alefiend]

I'm sorry, but I must know... how did you possibly find a use for Improved Overrun?

I ran over a crime lord's enforcer (D&D version of Luca Brazzi) and intimidated him into leaving a big fight, wrecking his street cred. It was a sweet moment. Also, I convinced the GM to let me use it instead of Improved Bull's Rush to qualify for Shock Trooper.

Again, we're not a well-tweaked group. Several of the players don't have the table experience to pull it off, and we're more focused on RP and character concept.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Barbarian. Take Martial Study/Martial Stance for some Stone Dragon stuff (I recommend Mountain Hammer and Charging Minotaur) and go into Deepstone Sentinel.

Also, your paladin friend wins and fails with his old character at the same time. Wins because he's got the high jumps/fast fighting style, fails because force-users are gestalted with psion.

[Tokuhara]

As a person who has played 15 different dwarves (all from the same clan), I'm your man for the job:

If ToB is allowed: Earth Dwarf Crusader 3/Dwarf Paragon 3/Deepwarden 2/Stonelord 9/Deepstone Sentinel 5

If not: switch Crusader and Deepstone Sentinel for Dwarf Fighter and Exotic Weapon Master (Urgosh or Waraxe)

[gbprime]

What about a dwarf Duskblade? In an un-optimized party, they're excellent damage dealers, being able to channel spells through their melee attack. (shocking grasp, scorching ray, touch of idiocy for those animal int foes...)

[gbprime]

If ToB is allowed: Earth Dwarf Crusader 3/Dwarf Paragon 3/Deepwarden 2/Stonelord 9/Deepstone Sentinel 5

I think you missed the part about being a mostly un-optimized crew. :smallwink:

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think you missed the part about being a mostly un-optimized crew. :smallwink:

And the part about ToB.

And possibly everything beyond the first short paragraph.

[Tokuhara]

And the part about ToB.

And possibly everything beyond the first short paragraph.

I did. I said, "If ToB is allowed, I suggest the Crusader build. If not, the fighter version." I just threw the Crusader suggestion since it's dwarfy.

And neither is Optimized. Not really. You are a Dwarf who does Dwarf-y things

Edit: Worst comes to Worst, play a pseudo-bard/sorcerer:

Dream Dwarf Racial Fighter 2/Paladin of FREEDOM!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo) 3/Dwarf Paragon 3/Suel Archanamach 4/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Favorite Casting PrCs 4

[marcielle]

If you don't mind being a Duergar instead, Dungeon Crasher/Psychic Warior/Warmind can pull off some serious silliness. Basicaly, with Improved Trip, Improved, Knockback and DungeonCrasher you are a scattering ram. You can knock a man off his feet, through the air and into a wall. Once you have Shocktrooper, you do the same thing, just to EVERYONE.

You'll need to ask if Duergar expansion qualifies you for Knockback though.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I did. I said, "If ToB is allowed, I suggest the Crusader build. If not, the fighter version." I just threw the Crusader suggestion since it's dwarfy.

And neither is Optimized.

Crusader is optimized straight out of the box. ToB classes have high floors and low ceilings, with a couple holes to go higher or lower in them.

[JaronK]

For this party, I'd say make a dwarf craftsman/soldier with a big axe. How about Dwarf Paragon 3/Fighter X with a Longaxe and a lot of booze? Can't really go wrong there. Consider using the appropriate bracers so that you can wield a large Longaxe... just because it's fun.

JaronK

[Tokuhara]

Crusader is optimized straight out of the box. ToB classes have high floors and low ceilings, with a couple holes to go higher or lower in them.

Not really. It's good, but you REALLY have to know what in the sod you are doing.

[big teej]

given that I play in a group of similar op-level... let me try.


Dwarf fighter - take the racial sub levels from races of stone.
go into dwarf paragon and Battlesmith.

that should leave you with quite the dwarfy dwarf who does dwarfy things in a dwarf manner.

and shouldn't overdo the power side of things.

[Alefiend]

Thanks for everything so far—I will have to research some of these ideas to see how they strike me. I will say that less complex builds are probably better, in part because of the likely short duration of the remaining campaign. Three classes is the most I can see loading onto a level 9-10 frame.

[big teej]

Thanks for everything so far—I will have to research some of these ideas to see how they strike me. I will say that less complex builds are probably better, in part because of the likely short duration of the remaining campaign. Three classes is the most I can see loading onto a level 9-10 frame.

if it helps any, mine can be pared down further by ditching the sub levels. and if fighter-paragon-battlesmith is still to much, you could always go down to just fighter-battlesmith

[Alefiend]

Good news: I've negotiated with my GM, and ToB is back on the table. I also have access to UA traits and flaws. The campaign is ending soon, so there's no reason not to give it all a try. I have promised to run my ideas past him before committing, and will not attempt to break the game in major ways. I

I'm not sure I understand the love for Crusaders, though. I've never gotten that. It's nice to have the heavy armor proficiency without a feat or a dip, and some of the class features are nice, but it gets the fewest martial forms of any initiator class, and the readying/recovery mechanics are a serious pain in the pooper.

Liking warblade, paragon, and stonelord so far. Dwarf-sub fighter might also get in there. Battlesmith means I can't use a number of class features if I want to pick up the relics the party is carrying.

Any further thoughts?

[Keld Denar]

You could always go with a Battlerageresque Dwarf. Something like:

Barbarian4/FistoftheForest3/Deepwarden2/Frostrager5. Brutal UAS damage, sharp pointy teeth, impressive grapple check (if you desire), and cool Frostrager tec that you can combine with the blasty wizard, especially if he doesn't mind taking Energy Sub: Cold.

Also, Con x2 to AC...because real dwarves block swords with their beard/chest.

[Tokuhara]

You could always go with a Battlerageresque Dwarf. Something like:

Barbarian4/FistoftheForest3/Deepwarden2/Frostrager5. Brutal UAS damage, sharp pointy teeth, impressive grapple check (if you desire), and cool Frostrager tec that you can combine with the blasty wizard, especially if he doesn't mind taking Energy Sub: Cold.

Also, Con x2 to AC...because real dwarves block swords with their frozen beard.

Fixed it for you.

And I adore the above build. Especially if PF is used with gestalt rules, then you get a Barbarian 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Frostrager 5//Martial Artist of Many Styles 20 for MOAR UAS

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fixed it for you.

And I adore the above build. Especially if PF is used with gestalt rules, then you get a Barbarian 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Frostrager 5//Martial Artist of Many Styles 20 for MOAR UAS

Do FotF and FR have unarmed strike progressions, or bonuses? Because if its progressions, they don't stack with monk.

[Alefiend]

You could always go with a Battlerageresque Dwarf. Something like:

Barbarian4/FistoftheForest3/Deepwarden2/Frostrager5. Brutal UAS damage, sharp pointy teeth, impressive grapple check (if you desire), and cool Frostrager tec that you can combine with the blasty wizard, especially if he doesn't mind taking Energy Sub: Cold.

Also, Con x2 to AC...because real dwarves block swords with their beard/chest.

That's probably a lot of fun to play—moreso if there were more orcs (Orks!), but it's out of reach. The campaign will almost certainly have ended by the time we hit 10th level.

[ericgrau]

How many orcs are there? What about Dwarven ranger / barbarian with favored enemy (orc) and an orcbane/orcbane dwarven urgosh? You'll be a d6 behind in damage against everything else, but man when those orcs come out he'll be the terror of the battlefield. Ideally I'd do barbarian 2 / ranger 2 / fighter 4 for weapon specialization as well.

Alternatively inject barbarian 1+ / ranger 2+ and the same weapon I mentioned into any of the above builds.

[Alefiend]

How many orcs are there? What about Dwarven ranger / barbarian with favored enemy (orc) and an orcbane/orcbane dwarven urgosh? You'll be a d6 behind in damage against everything else, but man when those orcs come out he'll be the terror of the battlefield. Ideally I'd do barbarian 2 / ranger 2 / fighter 4 for weapon specialization as well.

Alternatively inject barbarian 1+ / ranger 2+ and the same weapon I mentioned into any of the above builds.

At this point there are precisely NO orcs. There were some, but between them getting their army devastated by the party three levels ago, and the rest being turned into undead fodder for the Big Bad's army (and then devastated again last week) I can safely say that people of the porcine persuasion will be scarce for the remainder of the game.

Enemies from this point forward are likely to be aberrations, outsiders, and mortal cultists (very few of those), though surprises are always possible. We're stalking and killing an Elder Evil in an abandoned silver mine.

[Keld Denar]

The character you are replacing was 8th?

Barb4/FotF2/Deepwarden2 is also 8, and perfectly fine. I'd play this if I were you. Grab that last level of FotF when you ding, and then just take a level of Fighter or something at 10 and call it a finished build. Saves you a feat on Frozen Berzerker, which is nice.

Oh, and I forgot. You need Endurance for Deepwarden. Its a prereq for Steadfast Determination. That gives you Con to Will saves, and ensures that you won't autofail a Fort save on a natural 1 (cause your Fort save will be BOSS!). Now you'll not only block swords with your chest, but your muscles will be so big and dwarfy that silly things like "spells" and "wizards" will be more of an afterthought.