Archer Clerics -- Why Are They So Great?

[Rhaegar14]

The title pretty much covers my question. I get that with Zen Archery they can shoot accurately and don't need Dex, and I get that the Cleric spell list is pretty great (though I don't know all of it, or even most of it, by any extent).

But why are Clerics so good specifically as archers? The MAD isn't entirely solved because you still need Dex for feats, and most of their spells don't exactly scream "shoot a bow at things."

[Zaranthan]

It's mostly that Clerics are so damn good at whatever they spend their spell slots on that they can make archery doable. With the battlefield control to keep things at bay and the buffs to deal respectable amounts of damage, they can actually do the things you see & read in fiction.

[ClothedInVelvet]

Having never played one, I can't answer authoritatively. But I would guess the answer lies somewhere along the lines of, "they're marginally better than other ranged combatants because they can use their spellcasting to enhance their combat abilities."

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Having never played one, I can't answer authoritatively. But I would guess the answer lies somewhere along the lines of, "they're marginally better than other ranged combatants because they can use their spellcasting to enhance their combat abilities."

basically. they have such a versatile spell list (second only to wizard/sorcerer) they have 3/4 BAB, so they can still hit a target with decent AC (while un-buffed) they have a d8 hit die, so they are not as squishy, plus the ability to use medium and heavy armor makes them have a respectable AC, also un-buffed (again).

then, throw all of the various buffs and tricks the spell list gives them, and you are probably outdoing the fighter/barbarian for to hit and damage, probably have the best (or close) AC, and still have the versatility to do something besides just kill stuff.
Plus, when everyone else dies because they weren't tier 1, you can resurrect them. And they'll be thankful, even though you stole all of the glory in the battle that killed them, doing their job better than they could.

[Andreaz]

Archer clerics are awesome because clerics are awesome. The "archer" bit is almost purely for style.

[Gwendol]

They get spiritual weapon, which is a ranged weapon, acting on its own, and don't have to take the archery feats to be great. Think divine favor, divine power, righteous might, etc. The persist a selection of those, and you have a terrific archer, that can still do everything else a cleric can.

[Gullintanni]

Plus they can use Raptor Arrows which can be further enchanted to become Splitting Raptor Arrows.

[Eldan]

There are also a few cleric domains which give archery feats for free. Elf domain, I think, it was?

[Caliphbubba]

I was under the impression that things like Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion also helped out the Cleric Archer out a lot as wel, on top of what everyone else has said.

[Darrin]

Flexibility. A cleric archer can do roughly the same damage as fighter archer at the same level. However, the fighter can't:

* cast healing spells
* cast battlefield control spells
* cast dispel magic
* cast summons/planar ally
* cast teleport/polymorph/freedom of movement
* cast remove disease/restoration/break enchantment
etc.

[Dazed&Confused]

Roughly the same? I thought it was more. Like... Divine Favor, Divine Power and Righteous Might will: make your weapon damage go 2d6, give you +3att/dmg(assuming you have DSP at lvl 10), and all +5 from composed with full BAB. Alternatively a cleric can get Crafts, so his items might be better aswell. He's also got Greater Magic Weapon. I dunno, I think it's better, not about the same or worse.

[Boci]

There's zen archery for wisdom to hit with ranged attacks and battlefield control spells to keep the target out of melee.

[JadePhoenix]

Also, Leliana :smallwink:

[Darrin]

Roughly the same? I thought it was more. Like... Divine Favor, Divine Power and Righteous Might will: make your weapon damage go 2d6, give you +3att/dmg(assuming you have DSP at lvl 10), and all +5 from composed with full BAB. Alternatively a cleric can get Crafts, so his items might be better aswell. He's also got Greater Magic Weapon. I dunno, I think it's better, not about the same or worse.

Depends on how much time the cleric has to buff (or if he's using DMM Persist). In theory, the fighter would also have similar damage buffs, but that depends quite a bit on feat selection and WBL, so I tried to hedge with "roughly the same".

[charcoalninja]

Righteous might doesn't work on arrows. They shrink back to normal size once you've shot.

[dextercorvia]

Righteous might doesn't work on arrows. They shrink back to normal size once you've shot.

Good thing it is the size of the bow that counts, not the arrows.

[Person_Man]

By default, any Tier 1 class is great because it has a huge variety of powerful options. Archery in particular is a great option for Clerics, you can start combat standing behind the rest of your party, hang back and cast 1 or 2 powerful spells which will often decide the fate of combat, and then continue to contribute for the rest of combat with your bow.

You have all of the options of magic with a much lower burn rate on your spells, and all of the options of archery (+1 Bow with Save or Lose/Suck enchantments + arrows with different Save or Lose/Suck enhancements + Greater Magic Weapon) with a much lower burn rate on your magic arrows.

[gkathellar]

It's just a SAD thing, and it can save you some spell slots you would otherwise spend buffing strength or whatever. Plus it's a good option for clerics who prefer to sit back and cast, because it lets you do the whole full attacking thing with minimal resource investment.

[Incanur]

At higher levels, the feat Holy Warrior can add a lot of damage (+9) for a cleric with the war domain. Archers love bonus damage.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've played an archer cleric, and it has been re-iterated, but basically the reason they're great is that they do about as good of a job as a dedicated fighter, but also have full cleric casting behind it.

(I should point out that I was explicitly not using Divine Metamagic, as I didn't allow it in the campaign I used to run, and I pretty much never play a character that I wouldn't allow as a DM.)

At low levels, my archer cleric had the best attack bonus in the party (Knowledge Devotion + a lot of front loaded feats thanks to domain selection), but didn't really have many available sources of great bonus damage beyond Knowledge Devotion. Still, I was super accurate and had excellent defenses, plus always had a few good utility spells ready.

By the mid-levels, I was pretty much a walking fortress. Greater Magic Weapon, Freedom of Movement, Magic Vestment, Magic Circle - all of these were pretty much always on. (I also eventually had an animated tower shield.) Boosted caster level plus rods of Extend let me keep even 10 minutes/level castings going constantly.

It was honestly pretty rare that I actually used Divine Power, even though it gets touted as the ultimate cleric buff. Without Divine Metamagic, I generally found it wasn't worth wasting the extra action to cast it. However, Righteous Might definitely got some decent play time, thanks to the fairly significant damage boost.

Other than that, my main gig was utility and scrying. I didn't really do a lot of battlefield control or debuffing, and other than enchanting people's weapons for them and buffing against certain types of enemies (Death Ward against energy draining undead, Resist Energy against elementals, that sort of thing), I honestly didn't do a lot of party buffing. But I was still a pretty powerhouse character, despite intentionally making choices that reduced my effectiveness.

EDIT: By "dedicated fighter", I mean a martial class dedicated to archery, which may or may not have actual fighter levels. My point is, as far as number of attacks and damage per attack went, I wasn't actually any better than a martial character heavily focused on archery. But my defenses were significantly better, and if archery wasn't useful in a given situation, I had a tremendous toolbox to fall back onto.

[Rubik]

Cast a Persisted Chain of Eyes on the party rogue, that spell that allows you to fire at anything you can see with no range penalties, and get yourself a brilliant energy bow or some phasing arrows.

Now you can fire arrows in the comfort of your home and assassinate things with 0% chance of getting hurt.

[Mando Knight]

Also, Leliana :smallwink:

Leliana? You're almost two decades late. Try Rosa (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Rosa_Joanna_Farrell). She's been rocking archer/cleric since '91.

[JadePhoenix]

Leliana? You're almost two decades late. Try Rosa (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Rosa_Joanna_Farrell). She's been rocking archer/cleric since '91.

I said it in jest, mainly because Leliana isn't really a cleric.
She is way more badass than Rosa, though. Rosa was a Damsel in Distress. Leliana is an Action Girl.

[Aemoh87]

Options are better than no options. Clerics are better than most classes because they have more options than shoot bow.