free 1 inch counters for D&D

[NimbleNZ]

Hi,

OK, let's say for the sake of argument that some people had made photo-shopped pictures they found on google images of wizards, orcs, steampunk troopers, etc, etc, and wanted to make them available for everyone else to download...

...does anyone know the copyright issues with doing such things?
-if there are penalties against it, how severe are they?
-is it against server rules to post the counters or to post links to were they (hypothetically) might be
-do community members object to people doing this?


...and, is anyone interested? (hypothetically)

NimbleNZ

[Doc Roc]

So... you've converted someone else's art into counters, with no attribution, and you want to make it available for download? While it may conceivably be legal (which I seriously doubt), it's probably not ethical.

[Allanimal]

Forum rules don't let us give out legal advice, so don't assume that this is.

If the artwork has a license, a Creative Commons license for example, check to see that usage rights allow what you are trying to do. If in doubt, consult a legal professional.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

That said, do not ever give out other people's work unless you have a license saying you can. Merely changing it a bit does not make it an original thing, and legality and ethics will generally be pretty strongly against you randomly grabbing a bunch of other peoples things, fiddling with them a bit, and giving them away, especially without attribution.

[marcielle]

Try www.deviantart.com
A lot of that stuff is published under a 'share and share alike' thing meaning this would be perfectly legal so long as you don't charge. The art there is pretty good. The people are generally cool and there's a messaging system where you can ask for permission.

In general, I'd err on the safe side and assume you will get sue'd.

[Talionis]

Yeah, the biggest problem is using artwork without permission. But if you aren't charging and you have permission from the artist or use sources that grant blanket permission then you should be fine.

Now what people will let you post here in the forums, I'm no expert.

I would be interested in counters.

[NimbleNZ]

i wrote it in the thread title but not explicitly in the thread itself that its free. i'm not charging anything i just wanted to know if anyone wanted any free counters.

ethics? 'oh noes! that artwork i uploaded to the interwebs is being used for the enjoyment of people who play a board game!' ...thats just silly.

[ClothedInVelvet]

I would like to repeat in the strongest possible terms that a forum is not a place to get legal advice.

Anyone posting should make it clear that they are not a lawyer and are not providing authoritative legal advice.

For the record, I am not a lawyer and this should not be taken as authoritative legal advice.

[candycorn]

i wrote it in the thread title but not explicitly in the thread itself that its free. i'm not charging anything i just wanted to know if anyone wanted any free counters.

ethics? 'oh noes! that artwork i uploaded to the interwebs is being used for the enjoyment of people who play a board game!' ...thats just silly.

Or possibly, "my intellectual property, that I worked hard on, and that I feature on my website as a means to brand myself, has been lifted by some random person, and spread everywhere. Now people don't really need to go to my site anymore."

I believe that's what copyright laws are designed to prevent. If your project, however altruistic or noble, hurts the livelihood of the artist that made it, then it's not ethical, at the very least. And the best person to decide that is the artist. That's why getting the permission of the work's owner can be important. And that's why it's so important to consult with someone properly versed in copyright law. Even if you think it's silly, the artist who owns the work may not, and running afoul of those laws can expose you personally to a lot of risk.

[BobVosh]

Just ask the artist, if they say no don't do it. It is just common courtesy.

Therefore not legal advice, etc.

[Knaight]

Just ask the artist, if they say no don't do it. It is just common courtesy.

Therefore not legal advice, etc.
Exactly. Or, just draw the stuff yourself.

[Tyndmyr]

i wrote it in the thread title but not explicitly in the thread itself that its free. i'm not charging anything i just wanted to know if anyone wanted any free counters.

ethics? 'oh noes! that artwork i uploaded to the interwebs is being used for the enjoyment of people who play a board game!' ...thats just silly.

Being free does not guarantee that it is ethical, or legal.

If you don't have permission in black and white, don't use the source. Asking around in the arts and crafts forum or another similar area might get you in touch with people who are happy to have their stuff used in this manner.

There's no need to risk upsetting folks or getting sued when it's fairly easy to find people who are happy to let you use their artwork.

[Eldan]

There are pages online for pictures you can freely reuse. A lot of stuff on Wikimedia, as an example.

[killem2]

I just want to repeat that just because an artists puts up their images with out charging you to view them, doesn't mean they are free to use with out their permission. Simple enough though, just ask, seriously just ask them.

[NimbleNZ]

there's dozens of re-posts of the same pictures, and tracking down the original all the original authors would take hours and hours.

so far one person has expressed an interest in having some counters. thats hours of effort to beg permission to allow one person to use re-sized images in a harmless board game.

that is really petty and stupid.

if i could be bothered figuring out how to unsub from this forum i would.

[candycorn]

Don't hate on the messenger, man. We're actually trying to help you.

[ClothedInVelvet]

there's dozens of re-posts of the same pictures, and tracking down the original all the original authors would take hours and hours.


But the authors put in many hours doing the art too. Their work isn't less valuable simply because it shows up in multiple places.


so far one person has expressed an interest in having some counters. thats hours of effort to beg permission to allow one person to use re-sized images in a harmless board game.


Well then don't do it. You may be right, the payoff is not worth the input. But the amount of people using the counters doesn't change the ethics of the thing in the first place.


that is really petty and stupid.

if i could be bothered figuring out how to unsub from this forum i would.

Speaking of petty... You're going to unsub from the forum because you didn't like the answer? So you weren't actually asking the question, you were here so that we would justify your unethical action for you? Sorry, we call it like we see it.

[MukkTB]

To be honest that happens all the time. People grab images and repost them virally. Go check out some of the meme image boards if you somehow think I'm wrong. Failblog, Demotivational, Fukung, TMBLR. Yeah.

That doesn't make it ethical. Making a product even a free product out of other people's images may or may not be illegal, but this forum doesn't want to go there. For better or for worse this forum has higher standards than fukung. The forum respects artistic creation - Wait. Isn't there a bunch of picture reposts for D&D demotivationals over on the roleplaying forum? Have they all been made with permission from the original artists? Have they been reposted with permission from the guys who created the demotivational? Umm. I don't know what to say about that.

Personally I have absolutely no problem saving peoples' pictures to my documents and using them for whatever personal projects I have. Projects that I do not distribute in the public domain. I have no problem showing my friends pictures I have saved that I think would amuse them. Maybe I'm a pirate. Have fun trying to stop me if you want. Have fun trying to stop me from listening to music on youtube while you're at it. However I don't regurgitate other peoples' artwork back into the public domain. If I want to publicly show something that someone has made and put in the public domain I throw up a link to it, or maybe post the picture as a link to the site.

[Knaight]

To be honest that happens all the time. People grab images and repost them virally. Go check out some of the meme image boards if you somehow think I'm wrong. Failblog, Demotivational, Fukung, TMBLR. Yeah.
The extent to which actions are repeated is irrelevant to how moral they are.


Wait. Isn't there a bunch of picture reposts for D&D demotivationals over on the roleplaying forum? Have they all been made with permission from the original artists? Have they been reposted with permission from the guys who created the demotivational? Umm. I don't know what to say about that.
The differences between taking other people's work, running it through photoshop, and releasing it online on your own and simply reposting existing work aside - and there is a pretty huge difference - basically all of them have been reposted with permission from the guys who created them. Most were deliberately placed to propogate in their original form, several were created by people on the forum for the thread. So, no, it isn't even remotely equivalent.


Personally I have absolutely no problem saving peoples' pictures to my documents and using them for whatever personal projects I have. Projects that I do not distribute in the public domain. I have no problem showing my friends pictures I have saved that I think would amuse them. Maybe I'm a pirate. Have fun trying to stop me if you want. Have fun trying to stop me from listening to music on youtube while you're at it. However I don't regurgitate other peoples' artwork back into the public domain. If I want to publicly show something that someone has made and put in the public domain I throw up a link to it, or maybe post the picture as a link to the site.
Exactly. There is a fundamental difference between using a picture, and re releasing it in a changed form as ones own work.

[Tyndmyr]

there's dozens of re-posts of the same pictures, and tracking down the original all the original authors would take hours and hours.

Yes, because that's a *great* argument in court.

If doing something the right way is too much of a hassle, it doesn't justify doing it the wrong way instead. Remember, using other people's work is saving YOU time, because you do not have to do that work for yourself. You don't automatically have a right to other people's work.


so far one person has expressed an interest in having some counters. thats hours of effort to beg permission to allow one person to use re-sized images in a harmless board game.

that is really petty and stupid.

if i could be bothered figuring out how to unsub from this forum i would.

You asked for advice, you were given advice. We are not responsible for existing laws and ethical standards regarding use of other people's work. We are merely informing you of them.

[chadmeister]

if i could be bothered figuring out how to unsub from this forum i would.

Click on "user CP" in the brown bar.

On the Left side, click "List Subscriptions"

Check this thread, and hit "Delete Subscription" in the dropdown. Hit Go.

[killem2]

there's dozens of re-posts of the same pictures, and tracking down the original all the original authors would take hours and hours.

Ok, well this could mean a number of things.

1. You just experience why the internet is the #1 to copyrighted material because of the ease of access to spread it like wild fire.

2. It happens to be a free picture so in turn, it is spread around, because it can be.

3. The artist is ok with it being used with out issue.



so far one person has expressed an interest in having some counters. thats hours of effort to beg permission to allow one person to use re-sized images in a harmless board game.

Sorry, that's the rules? You can still feel free to give them out and do what ever you want. Its your life. If you feel you've taken all the correct protocols to distribute out possible copy righted art, then ok go ahead.


that is really petty and stupid.

Not really. Everyone has the right for copy right protection on their intellectual property, music, art ect.


if i could be bothered figuring out how to unsub from this forum i would.

Wow. I don't get it man. So you made some tokens, you want to be generous and give them away. (Ok, thank you.) However, with anything, you have check the legal aspects of things like this.

You DON'T have too, of course. Just like, you don't have to obey traffic laws. There are just penalties for not doing it. :smallwink:

[MukkTB]

The extent to which actions are repeated is irrelevant to how moral they are.

I didn't say it was moral. I said it happens all the time. I implied that its almost impossible to stop. If this guy really wanted to release his D&D chips he could get away with doing it on a less reputable website. I was then building a case that the standards of this website didn't allow it until I got sidetracked on the demotivationals. Which you claim are made by people who dot all their 'i's and cross all their 't's when it comes to internet etiquette every single time. I'll have to look into it more before I believe that.

This thing may be illegal. It may come under fair use or something. I'm not a legal expert. But I do know that he could do it with almost no chance of repercussions if he decided to regardless of legality. Just not here.

[Talionis]

To be honest the big problem is whether someone else will repost it or want you to take it down. If you give them away, all they could ever do is give you a cease and desist letter and then would have to remove the pictures from that artist.

There really is almost no value to what you are talking about putting together, so its really not a marketable use of their art.

The other alternative would be to contact people here to help find people that will do artwork for you.

[Knaight]

I didn't say it was moral. I said it happens all the time. I implied that its almost impossible to stop. If this guy really wanted to release his D&D chips he could get away with doing it on a less reputable website. I was then building a case that the standards of this website didn't allow it until I got sidetracked on the demotivationals. Which you claim are made by people who dot all their 'i's and cross all their 't's when it comes to internet etiquette every single time. I'll have to look into it more before I believe that.

This thing may be illegal. It may come under fair use or something. I'm not a legal expert. But I do know that he could do it with almost no chance of repercussions if he decided to regardless of legality. Just not here.

Not always, but in many cases they very much are.

As for doing it with no repercussions, that might be true legally. Ethically, he still has to deal with what he's done.