I think I might be misunderstanding Prestige Classes.

[killem2]

When you take a prestige class, does it Replace the levels (1-10) of the class you came from, or is it a separate set of levels.

Example, Wizard, I take it to level 3, then at level 4 I go Master specialist, could I then after I am done with MS, go to Sorcerer, level it to say 3 or 4, and then hop into Ultimate Magus?

:smalleek:

[skycycle blues]

Prestige classes don't replace levels unless they specifically say that they do, like Blackguard can do with Paladin levels.

You could do that. Your character would be Wizard 3/Master Specialist 10/Sorcerer 3/Ultimate Magus X and have all of the abilities of each level of each class that you have.

[Yora]

No they work just like normal multiclass levels, except that they have requirements that make it impossible to take them at 1st level.


When you are a 6th level wizard and take 1 level in say master specialist, you are a 6th level wizard, 1st level master specialist, or "wizard 6/master specialist 1".

[killem2]

Very cool. I might (since I am the dm also) have a small story line, where I might roll on a boss fight a chance to spontaneously cast with out knowing it, a spell I don't know from a random chart. (to simulate that he has sorcerer in him, but didn't know)

and maybe make that into a fun adventure for the rest of the group, to discover this strange new side of him.

[ninja_penguin]

If I'm understanding you correctly that you have a DMPC with the group, be very careful; it's possible to alienate a group quickly if it looks like 'you' are getting/doing everything cool.

[killem2]

You are correct. I am the DM and I am a PC.

I've taken great strides to make my mage a background thing.

Sure if it fits, I'll put him out front, but if there is a cleric, he can do the healing or the hurting of undead, there is a ranger, pfft, he can shoot down some ranged, there is a fighter, he can take damage I'm not going to get my ass hurt, lol.

I'll pew pew here and there, but mostly I want to have fun with illusions. And i'll create story lines for my mage, but it will take a team to do it, that way THEY get in on the action and get something out of it (treasure, xp, adventure ect)




As a side note, how does spell progression work with prestige classes, do I just get the same as the wizard class? So if I am a level 6 MS, then I follow the wizard spell progression for level 6?

[Daremonai]

This....this could be problematic. You'd need to be very careful about keeping the mage in the background, and from the sounds of it, there's still a danger that the players might end up just feeling like "the guys that have to go do what the mage wants to do".

[Bakkan]

As a side note, how does spell progression work with prestige classes, do I just get the same as the wizard class? So if I am a level 6 MS, then I follow the wizard spell progression for level 6?

That depends on the specific prestige class. Classes (such as master specialist) that have a "Spellcasting" class feature advance your casting at the levels indicated. So if you are a Wizard 3/Master Specialist 6, you have spells per day as a level 9 Wizard, since Master Specialist advances casting at every level. On the other hand, if you were, say, a Wizard 5/Mindbender 4, you would only have spells per day as a level 7 Wizard, since Mindbender only advanced spellcasting on its 1st and 3rd levels.

Many prestige classes do not advance spellcasting at all, some progress only certain kinds of spellcasting (such as arcane or divine), and some give their own, independent spellcasting (such as the Suel Arcanamach, Ur-Priest, Trapsmith, or Sublime Chord).

[Douglas]

As a side note, how does spell progression work with prestige classes, do I just get the same as the wizard class? So if I am a level 6 MS, then I follow the wizard spell progression for level 6?
For things like Master Specialist, they add to the progression of a base class. A Wizard 3/Master Specialist 5 would cast spells as a Wizard 8. Some classes don't advance casting at every level, though, so it's not always as simple as just adding the levels together. Check each class for details.

Also, I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion that you might be doing XP required for leveling wrong. That, or you're thinking of giving your DMPC an extremely weak build, which is not necessarily a bad idea with regard to keeping him in the background. As far as XP goes, levels are not separated by class. A level 10 character needs 10000 more XP to reach level 11, and whether he's a Wizard 10 going for Wizard 11 or a Fighter 5/Barbarian 3/Swashbuckler 2 planning to dip Paladin 1 makes no difference. As far as XP is concerned in the latter case, it's not "the 1st level of Paladin" but rather "the 11th level of the character". Multiclassing in 3.5 is not the same as dual-classing in AD&D.

Of course, I could just be reading too much into this, in which case never mind.

[Greenish]

And i'll create story lines for my mage, but it will take a team to do it, that way THEY get in on the actionNow that triggered some mental alarms.

[killem2]

This....this could be problematic. You'd need to be very careful about keeping the mage in the background, and from the sounds of it, there's still a danger that the players might end up just feeling like "the guys that have to go do what the mage wants to do".

Well, it has to be fair for everyone.... Including me.

Everyone in the group and I have made this clear to them, their prestige class including my own, are NOT just "open the book, pick one, write it down." Oh no, I plan on using EVERY person's prestige class as an adventure.

So the fighter who wants to be a stone lord, the cleric who wants to be a hammer of moradin, the ranger who wants to be a champion of (sorry forgot the name, its in race of the wild i think), a rogue who wants to be a master thrower and invisible blade..

Then there is me, who wants to be a master specialists, but wont know he wants to be an ultimate magus until well over that and only on a % roll. until then he continues on the path hes on.

Everybody has a special story and the story I make is build around a lot of the skills they can do (85% them, 15% my mage). Also if there is ever a time where it appears my mage will be OP, I do confront the group and get their input first. Like when I wanted to use a homebrew humming bird build, for the familiar, I presented it, they all agreed that it was ok, except it having weapon finesse, because that allowed it to do melee attacks far to easy for what it is, so we agreed, drop it.

And I did. :)

And they do the same for ANY home brew options they find, they bring it to me, and I present it to the group.



For things like Master Specialist, they add to the progression of a base class. A Wizard 3/Master Specialist 5 would cast spells as a Wizard 8. Some classes don't advance casting at every level, though, so it's not always as simple as just adding the levels together. Check each class for details.

Also, I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion that you might be doing XP required for leveling wrong. That, or you're thinking of giving your DMPC an extremely weak build, which is not necessarily a bad idea with regard to keeping him in the background. As far as XP goes, levels are not separated by class. A level 10 character needs 10000 more XP to reach level 11, and whether he's a Wizard 10 going for Wizard 11 or a Fighter 5/Barbarian 3/Swashbuckler 2 planning to dip Paladin 1 makes no difference. As far as XP is concerned in the latter case, it's not "the 1st level of Paladin" but rather "the 11th level of the character". Multiclassing in 3.5 is not the same as dual-classing in AD&D.

Of course, I could just be reading too much into this, in which case never mind.


We haven't started yet, our first session is dec 11th. :) And yes, it is a little weaker build of a mage. Not so weak that I am useless but not a macgyver either.


I am glad you told me though, if I take a level 3 wizard, and go to 1st level MS instead of my 4th level wizard for me to get to level 2 of the Master Specialist, I use the XP value for a level 4 character going to level 5, NOT a level 1 char going to level 2? right?

[JadePhoenix]

I strongly advise against DMPCs as well.

[killem2]

I strongly advise against DMPCs as well.

Any reason other than the sterotypes and generalizations that people seem to "fear" by association?

I honestly don't think its that big of a deal, when the DM (me) isn't power hungry, and who actually cares about the quality of play and also has real will power.

:smallcool:

[Kaje]

Here's the thing. As the DM, you already dominate the game. You control plots, perform all the monsters and npcs, and all that. Your players each control a character. It's already fair and balanced. If you have a dmpc that just stays in the background and fills in gaps, that can be ok. But if you have a dmpc who gets his own plot totally surrounding him, that's you taking the spotlight too much, even if your other players can help out.

[Douglas]

I am glad you told me though, if I take a level 3 wizard, and go to 1st level MS instead of my 4th level wizard for me to get to level 2 of the Master Specialist, I use the XP value for a level 4 character going to level 5, NOT a level 1 char going to level 2? right?
Correct. A Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1 is a level 4 character, and gaining a level in any class, whether it's Wizard, Master Specialist, or an entirely new class, requires XP for becoming level 5.

[killem2]

Here's the thing. As the DM, you already dominate the game. You control plots, perform all the monsters and npcs, and all that. Your players each control a character. It's already fair and balanced. If you have a dmpc that just stays in the background and fills in gaps, that can be ok. But if you have a dmpc who gets his own plot totally surrounding him, that's you taking the spotlight too much, even if your other players can help out.

But they ALSO get those rich stories and awesome side quests. Its not just me. And honestly mine is going to be mostly, *goes to see original master teacher*: HEY go see this guy about why you are are spontaneously shooting magic missiles you haven't prepared yet because, you be crazy and I don't do crazy. /waves hand, boots me out the door.

The along the way, we run into adventures, perhaps a side quest inside of the adventure. Who knows. The sky is the limit. Sure, I control it all, but I put a damn lot of focus on them. A lot. :smallwink: Because that's how it should be. Trust me, if anyone else would have wanted to be DM, I would gladly give it up, lol. I don't want to DM, but I will because I want to play d&d, and so do they, and that's more important than my fear of being a DM :D

[Venger]

So the fighter who wants to be a stone lord, the cleric who wants to be a hammer of moradin, the ranger who wants to be a champion of (sorry forgot the name, its in race of the wild i think), a rogue who wants to be a master thrower and invisible blade..

Then there is me, who wants to be a master specialists, but wont know he wants to be an ultimate magus until well over that and only on a % roll. until then he continues on the path hes on.

it's champion of Corellon Larethian, incidentally, and it is indeed in RotW (didn't know people actually played elven rangers)

while I would chime in that I too suggest against a DMPC (especially if you already have 4 PCs) but for different reasons than mentioned

DMPC are often used in campaigns that are very small (2 people) or that lack something that the players are not comfortable playing (for example, casting if your players don't know the rules for magic and are playing melee classes) in order to provide better party balance and fill in gaps that the party may have (no caster, no tank, no face, etc) but a fighter, cleric, ranger, and rogue already have everything covered, there's no (mechanical) need for a DMPC. anything your guy can do magicwise, the cleric can do just as well (plus that way your player is doing things, not you)

since you aren't short on players and your players have the 4 archetypal roles covered (sneak, tank, caster, healbitch) you don't need a DMPC for mechanical reasons, so your party wouldn't be hurting by the abscence of one.

however, my concerns stem from a different root cause. since your question of how PrCs work was a basic understanding issue, I assume that you are somewhat new to the rules of this game, so may not be familiar with the "tier system". in short, what it is is a general categorisation of the different classes in this game from best (1) to worst (6), with tier 1 classes being extremely powerful and capable of defeating encounters on their own, leading to boredom for the player since they can curbstomp all the gnolls and whatevers and frustration for the DM trying to give monsters mean enough to challenge the T1 but not mean enough to rape everybody else, and tier 6 classes struggling to contributing meaningfully to the party, often leading to hurt feelings for the player, which no one wants, and frustration for the DM as he tries to give monsters weak enough for the T6 to beat but not so weak that everyone else is bored

generally speaking, if it is possible, the DM wants players to be within 1 step of each other in regards to their tier so he can give encounters that are appropriate for everybody. a group of mostly 3s with one 4 in there is okay, but mostly 1s with one 6 is definitely not, as is mostly 6s with one 1 for the reasons explained above.

obviously, this is a sliding scale like the kinsey scale (it's even numbered 1 to 6!) so there are low 3s that are more or less identical in power level to high 2s and so on.

your party, from the descriptions that you gave, also seems new to the game (not that this is a bad thing, it just informs your decisions as a DM) I say this because there is an elven ranger and a fighter in your party and your cleric picked dwarf. these classes (and dwarf) imply that your players are not familiar with the rules and optimisation (again, not a bad thing, just means they're not suited for a challenge that would be appropriate to people who are)

their breakdown is (roughly)

fighter:5(middling to low depending on his feat choices and how many levels he waits till going into stonelord since he can't get into it before lvl 5

ranger:3(middling to low since he's going into champ of CL, which cuts down on his MAD a little making dex more important)

rogue:4(could go up to 3 since he is at least savvy enough to want to go IB and MT. throwers have a hard time dealing much damage, but he can get creative with this build)

cleric:pending (does your cleric know that hammer of moradin does not progress spellcasting? do you? no judgement, it's an easy thing to miss when dabbling in PrCs the first time, it just seems somewhat unlikely to me that you would enter hammer of moradin as a straight cleric rather than taking a 3 lvl dip on top of a full BA melee class. I think this is likely an oversight, but assuming it's not a mistake, the earliest he could possibly enter it is level 11 with cleric's 3/4 BA, so he'd still have the casting of a cleric 10, so that'd put him firmly in a high2/low3 territory

In short, the highest discrepancy in your party is between maybe a low3 and a middling to low 5. that could be difficult, but it would still be workable.

your DMPC, a wizard/master specialist/sorcerer/ultimate magus is nestled firmly and unequivocally at the bottom of T1, and that will be an enormous problem. there is nothing that a party of 3s to 5s can do that a 1 can't do better, and you will be constantly overshadowing your players.

while from a roleplay perspective, your handle on how to handle the DMPC sounds fine, you really need to tone down his power level if he is going to adventure with these guys and not make them feel completely useless. might I suggest making him a beguiler from the PHB2? it's a middling T3 and has no damaging spells (focuses on enchantment/illusion) and is a spontaneous caster so you could keep the whole "latent magic awakening" thing in your guy's plotline. he could use a spellbook (that doesn't do anything mechanically) because he thinks he needs it and then his mentor tells him the magic was in him all along! the nondamaging thing is also important because it means he won't overshadow the players as much in combat and can be used more for RP stuff (illusions, disguises, trickery, etc) which is what you seem to want this character for.

what do you think?

[killem2]

Here is the breakdown.

The rogue and the cleric, are played by the same person. He has played I believe since 1.0 and has played quite often in a very large group for years (7-10 players +) for 3.0 and 3.5. He by far is the most experience. I do not know if he knows that about the Moradin thing. I will let him know.

The Fighter has played with the cleric (father son actually) this is the son, but he's only 15, so I don't know how much of that time was use playing d&d, he has a grasp on the concept of the game.

The ranger comes from a lush 2.0 background. So this is some what new to him, but he insanely intelligent and catches on to stuff like that *snap*.

Me, I come also from 2.0, we started a bit of 3.0. I understand base concepts of the game, I am however new to DMing. Prestige classes are something that when my group did play 3.0 we didn't touch, so I am learning a lot about that stuff.

I'm not really interested in any of these homebrew types of tiers, that E6 thing I saw, or any of it. Its easier for me to just follow what books say. Yes, to the optimizer hounds, this would probably turn fatal for game play. For our group, its fairly balanced. Sure, I'm a wizard.

However, I am perfectly capable, (more so when we start doing modules) of acting as if I don't know what the hell is going on (as any player would know) and use my skills accordingly, not because I know ahead of time what to or not to do. My group trusts me, and I trust them. We respect each other and they know I'm not going to be biased to my character. To other DMs maybe this is an issue, but I'm not worried about it.

The reason I ask so many questions, is to be well informed before we get to those issues, as of right now we haven't even played yet. We're just getting the ground level stuff done.

I think there is quite a lot of assumption that if player Y takes class Z, is because they want to dominate areas 1,4, 7, and 9 of game play. I just want to role play a quirky gnome illusionists who has broken from his school (not magic just school who trained him) and wants to learn more about illusions and internally doesn't realize he is also possibly a sorcerer. Illusions can be powerful, but I don't feel they are to the point where they can solve every possible dungeon encounter. (from reading anyway)

Sure just because my character loves illusions doesn't mean he can't get great spells like teleportation and such, but on the same front, my group also wants that to be my job. The cleric probably isn't the same type of cleric you might optimize, sure he has some protections and stuff like that, but over all, he really wants that earth domain and possible protection or the new domain that came with Moradin in the forgotten realms campaign (i think is what he said) I still need to look.



Also, the reason I am playing is, I started this character LONG before we knew we had the player who was going to be the ranger. He came after the three of us made our characters, so I agreed to play one. He came along, and so I wanted to still play.

My interaction as the DM, is about on the comparable level as someone who wants to be Banker in Monopoly. just because they are the banker doesn't mean they get to dig in when ever they want. They are there because the game NEEDS someone to do that job. And that's what I am doing. If any of them want to step up and be DM, awesome I'll hand it down. Also, we want to have established characters so if we ever find a group that we could merge with we can bring out characters there (assuming we can if that ever happens)

I hope that clears up a bit more :)

[Dr.Epic]

As everyone else has stated, PrC's don't replace current class levels. They're new levels. Only a fefw certain examples like Blackgaurd or Ronin do this and only if you have the right class beforehand.

[Venger]

thanks for your response, it was very informative

okay, see, I assumed since you had 4 characters that you had 4 players. you in fact only have 3 players, so your desire to include a DMPC is more understandable from a mechanical POV

I thought that the rogue player seemed to have a pretty firm grasp on the rules (fun fact: master thrower and invisible blade were one 10 level class, but they needed to pad the book so they pulled out the invisible blade parts and plopped it down on its own, forgetting to remove all those now-worthless ranged combat feats that you cannot use as a straight IB. this is why many people take IB and MT together and why there's such good synergy between the two)

yeah, tell him about the casting thing. it might be an honest oversight or he might be trying to intentionally gimp himself so he doesn't overshadow the rest of the party, which given his understanding of the rules (he knows clerics are T1) I think is probably what's going on.

okay, most people new to the game pick fighter or some other melee class, and if the cleric (his dad) is giving himself a handicap to bring him more down to the fighter's level, that makes sense.

okay. rangers didn't change very much from 2.0, so he shouldn't have too hard of a time adjusting.

well I hope you like DMing. it's a lot of fun and definitely helps make you a better player.

tiers are not home brew. I believe you are confusing T6 with E6. E6 is that thing where people will only play up to level 6. the tier system is a general explanation and comparison of the base classes and their relative power. it is not an alternate rule set:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf4 4e&topic=1002.0

and more in-depth explanation here:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5256.0

I didn't mean to imply that you were going to intentionally take advantage of the fact that you are a wizard, your play style doesn't seem like it. I just meant that it is easy as a wizard to accidentally outshine everybody. I'm sure that you will keep your in game and out of game knowledge separate.

it sounds an awful lot like you're already playing a beguiler, but illusionist master specialist is fun and very flavorful. consider giving your guy the "focused specialist" feat in order to make him have another banned school of magic so his capabilities will be lower.

I know there's a lot of assumption, which is why I asked questions. thanks for answering them, it helps me get a better understanding of what you're like as a DM and a player.

despite what my posts might imply, the characters I build (for play and as NPCs when DMing) are not crazy optimization-fu. playing T1s for someone who's aware of what they're capable of is like fishing with a car battery, there's just no challenge to it. I like to play T3s. they're not too bad to use in a variety of situations, but they're not so inherently good that my high system mastery enables me to outshine everybody else when I'm playing (beguilers, dread necromancers, factoti, etc) so I'd never wanna play a CoDzilla.

your interpretation of illusions is largely correct. they're lots of fun because of the variety they offer. and if that's the way you read it, that's the way you'll use it in your game (you can't use mechanics in a way you haven't thought to use mechanics, it's impossible)

okay, so you'll use your guy for utility stuff like teleportation that the cleric can't do? that seems pretty reasonable.

hammer of moradin is on p56 of player's guide to faerun and doesn't grant any new domains. is it possible that you are thinking of a different class, or perhaps just an ability that another class gets?

oh, okay, your origin of your PC guy makes more sense now.

definitely clears it up.

[Mnemnosyne]

I like to use DMPC's when possible, but I find that they have some major problems. One of them is that players will often look to the DMPC for confirmation that they're doing the right thing, that they're not screwing up, walking into a trap, etc. And it often doesn't seem to be an intentional behavior, it's just something that happens because they simply know that the person controlling that character also knows every possible danger that they will face, so their natural instinct is to turn to the person who knows. Some players can scrupulously avoid doing this, but many can't. This also has a tendency of making the players somewhat indecisive.

If your players are decisive, proactive, and don't consistently turn to the DMPC for advice, then it can be done pretty well, I think. So it's not something that you always need to avoid, but it is something that might screw up the party through no fault of your own, simply due to player tendencies, even if you are very, very good at separating your DM knowledge from character knowledge, and you are equally good at not hogging the spotlight.

So I don't straight out advise against DMPC's in general...but be very careful with them and make sure that the players are making the decisions as to what to do, not looking to your character to make those decisions for them.

[killem2]

Just talked to my cleric, he says he just wants skills that come with a hammer of moradin, and he understand there is no spell casting advancement.

Sorry I didn't realize that was not homebrew just a different way to balance the game with tiers.

Overall though, prestige classes are really being looked at, as flavor/coolness rather than all out functionality. I did think about useing the focused specialists, but I still like being a wizard, but then again maybe that is where I can roleplay the sorcerer, a more blaster type class or something.

Who knows. All I know is, I haven't played in almost 12 years, and I would like to again haha.



So I don't straight out advise against DMPC's in general...but be very careful with them and make sure that the players are making the decisions as to what to do, not looking to your character to make those decisions for them.

Here is a good example of how I'll handle it.

I know for a fact there is a room I made, that other than this pillar that has a jar of marbles with the day light spell permanently cast on it, the room would be absolutely dark. 100% darkvision only.

I know there is a trigger on one of the squares that will jettison a stone slab out of the wall into the jar and send the marbles flying down dark hallways, that alerts packs of orcs because all of a sudden the the hallway is lit up. I personally would have thrown an object that had light on it, rather than sneak down, because that's what I do. I'm rather chaotic in nature, but also playing scared. I would be the first to fire a fire ball into an unknown room lol.

[jiriku]

When using a DMPC, the most important thing to do is just keep a sharp eye on your players and make sure that a) they're having fun, and b) the DMPC is not infringing on that fun. It sounds like you're conscientious about it and definitely aware of the need to keep an eye on things, so it's likely that you'll do fine. The real problem usually comes when the DM's ego and selfishness get in the way of things and the DMPC becomes someone the players wish they could get rid of. It doesn't sound like there's any danger of that happening here.

[Venger]

okay, that's great. as long as he's not training skills/feats that he won't use for a PrC that isn't what he expected.

no big deal. no new rules there, just a quick and handy guide to keeping track of how the classes relate to each other

sure, that's how lots of people pick PrCs, for flavor over mechanics or fluff over crunch.

focused specialist is a feat that specialist wizards can take to get another spell slot prepared at each level to be used for their school of specialization at the cost of banning another school of magic. it is not another class. the thing is that you can still cast those spells from said forbidden schools through you sorcerer half (trollface.jpg) and that could come as a surprise to your guy when his latent spontaneous powers awaken

[killem2]

do you have a source for the focused specialist feat? I can't seem to find what book it in the only thing I can find that term in in complete mage and it isn't a feat, I'm actually very curious about it.

[Steward]

I don't think Focused Specialist is a feat at all, actually. I would probably consider it more of an alternate class feature. If I recall correctly, you can't just decide to become a Focused Specialist at some random level in your class; you have to build your character like that from the get-go.

(I mean, I think so. I've only really come across it once.)

[killem2]

This is what I was talking about from the complete mage:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/fs.jpg

I am on the fence, the adding another banned school seems pretty high, but then again, getting extra illusion spells per day is pretty cool too. If I had to choose I would probably evo or abur for the next on the chopping block. Though alot of the class single target spells are in there, which I enjoy even if they do become overshadowed later on.

[Taelas]

That is, as was mentioned, an alternate class feature, which is not the same as a prestige class. An alternate class feature for a given class is simply a level which gives different class features than is described in the original class. In this example, the Focused Specialist have fewer normal spells and must choose another banned school, but get, in return, additional spell slots within their specialization.

For example, a Conjurer might have banned Evocation and Enchantment. At character creation, he also chooses to be a Focused Specialist, and bans Illusion as well. As a 1st level Focused Specialist Conjurer, he can prepare and cast 2 0-level spells and 0 1st-level spells, as well as whatever bonus spells he gets from a higher Intelligence. In addition, he can prepare 3 extra 0-level Conjuration spells, and 3 extra 1st-level Conjuration spells.

[killem2]

I wasn't saying it was a prestige class.

I'm responding to the Venger, who brought up the Focused Specialist feat, and we're trying to figure out where he got it from. I posted that in response.

[Venger]

Yes, you are correct, I was referring to the ACF from complete mage that you are talking about.

[Taelas]

Ah, I see. My apologies for the mistaken presumption. :smallsmile:

[candycorn]

Any reason other than the sterotypes and generalizations that people seem to "fear" by association?

I honestly don't think its that big of a deal, when the DM (me) isn't power hungry, and who actually cares about the quality of play and also has real will power.

:smallcool:

Those stereotypes exist for a reason. Most times, DM's that become overbearing as a DMPC don't even know they're doing it.

The real problem with the game's final Arbiter (the DM) getting involved in the general storyline of the PC's is that it puts you on both sides of the coin, and developing quests for the wizard could detract from time better spent making a more immersive world.

As the DM, you have endless hordes of characters, both ally and enemy, to play. The role is best suited for one that enjoys immersing his/her friends in a world. If your players love roleplay, then make the sulry barmaid, the proud Amazon princess, the greedy merchant, the desperate highwaymen, and so on. Know what they're like, so that anyone the players focus on, you have somewhere to start. Let the players choose who you develop, simply by what areas intrigue them enough to explore.

And if they love combat, then give them fearsome enemies that test their mettle and let them shine... And it's hard enough to balance letting each player have their moment in the sun, without taking some of the spotlight for yourself,too.

In other words? I've seen a hundred DMPC's... Of those, I've seen a small handful that didn't detract from the game, and none that actually added to the experience. It's a lot of extra time and extra risk, for little to no gain in overall enjoyment.