Is grabbing an unconscious body a move or standard action?

[Ignashis]

Would you guys say grabbing an unconscious body during combat as a move action or a standard action or less then that?

[Curmudgeon]

Manipulating something is generally a move action.

[Essence_of_War]

Would you guys say grabbing an unconscious body during combat as a move action or a standard action or less then that?

Are we talking about fireman-carrying an unconscious ally?

I'd probably concur with Curmudgeon and say it's a move action.

[FearlessGnome]

It would provoke AoOs, though, just like picking up a dropped weapon would.

[Ignashis]

Okay, thanks guys. As a DM my group question every little thing that I'm doing even though it's stated in a book I'm using. However it's not a allies grabbing allies it's an enemy grabbing a unconscious pc. If you're wondering the battle was with a Lolth-Touched phase spider. and according to the the ethereal jaunt ability it states "A phase spider can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action)." and under the tactics section for the battle it states "they continue these hit-and-run tactics until their poison takes down prey; then they try to shift their kill with them into the ethereal plane.

And my group said that the spiders couldn't do this as it was more then a move action.

[FearlessGnome]

Unconscious is unconscious. Plus whatever you want to do with that remaining Standard Action is going to be limited by carrying a body. Whatever they may weigh, they are not exactly shaped for ease of transport. Especially not if they are wearing armor.

[Morquard]

I don't know if you can compare it to a weapon. A weapon is made to be carried and picked up, you grab the hilt and lift it.
An unconcious body is not. You somehow have to lift up the upper body or something and then lower yourself so you can grab them around the chest and then get up agian.

I'd say that's more complicated. You might say it requires a grapple attempt (which pretty much auto-succeeds since the guy's helpless) and then they can repositition the body, probably next round.

Unless the attacker is one or two size categories larger and just for example grabs one lag and pulls on that dragging him over the ground.

[Yora]

I would say the phase spider simply starts a grapple and automatically succeeds at all rolls because the target isn't resisting.

Jump in as a free action.
Start a grapple as a standard action.
Jump out as a move action.

No problem with that.

However by RAW, phantom spiders can't actually take victims to the ehtereal plane with them. It only works on themselves.

[Ignashis]

The spider is a size category larger. so if it's just shifting to a different plane it really wouldn't need to move the body just grab it and shift, right.

[Ignashis]

I would say the phase spider simply starts a grapple and automatically succeeds at all rolls because the target isn't resisting.

Jump in as a free action.
Start a grapple as a standard action.
Jump out as a move action.

No problem with that.

However by RAW, phantom spiders can't actually take victims to the ehtereal plane with them. It only works on themselves.

Okay thanks that would be more helpful then what they were trying to say. However it states in the book that i'm using they can shift they're kill to the ethereal plane.

[Jeraa]

Okay thanks that would be more helpful then what they were trying to say. However it states in the book that i'm using they can shift they're kill to the ethereal plane.

Which book is that? Because its not the Monster Manual. Neither the phase spiders ethereal jaunt ability, nor the spell of the same name it copies, allows you to bring along another creature. (Unless you count a dead body as equipment.)

[Ignashis]

Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. And yes I would count dead bodies as objects and no longer PC's.

[Yora]

Not that a phase spider can shift as a move action or during a move action. That means, even if it crabs someone and starts running, it can still shift while running.

[Diefje]

Don't they just use it for hit and run? It will come back to the Material plane soon enough. The party just needs to follow it (it is merely invisible, a high enough Spot could beat it).

[Jeraa]

That encounter has problems... its in the Abyss. Where there is no ethereal plane.

The phase spiders ability even specifically says they shift between the ethereal and material planes. They shouldn't be able to shift at all in that encounter.

That aside, if the encounter was on the material plane, whoever the spiders were trying to shift with has to be dead. The spell (And so the spiders ability) won't affect other creatures.

[Ignashis]

That encounter has problems... its in the Abyss. Where there is no ethereal plane.

The phase spiders ability even specifically says they shift between the ethereal and material planes. They shouldn't be able to shift at all in that encounter.

That aside, if the encounter was on the material plane, whoever the spiders were trying to shift with has to be dead. The spell (And so the spiders ability) won't affect other creatures.

Also don't forget that they are Lolth-Touched Phase Spiders

It states in the tactics section of the encounter, "The spiders shift in around their victim, make around of flanking bite attacks, and shift back out at the end of their attacks...They continue these hit and run attacks until their poison takes down prey; then they try to shift their kill with them into the ethereal plane."

Under the tactical map section it also states:" The Phase Spiders use their shifting ability to their best advantage when prey wanders into their web."

Now when I got to the point where he was going to shift out a PC. The PC in question was dead, originally unconscious but later found out to be dead, so he was an object. Which is where my question comes into play.

So to modify the question is it a move or standard action to grab a dead body.

Now it's more for practical sense if this problem comes up again.

[ericgrau]

Techinically it's a move action to pick up an object. However it would be reasonable to make it a standard or full round action to pick up a heavier object. I mean imagine picking up something you can barely lift. That takes as long as dragging it 5 feet or lifting it and staggering 5 feet to the side with it. The rules don't really specify, so either you assume picking up a mountain is a move action or you invent a rule based on weight vs. carrying capacity.

A phase spider can carry 260 lbs. as a light load, as easily as a commoner might pick up a 33 lb. sack or a str 8 gaming nerd a 26 lb. sack. IMO that's a move action. The only issue I might see is whether their spider legs can pick up anything at all; better have a backpack strap or clothing or some such to hook.

[Ignashis]

Techinically it's a move action to pick up an object. However it would be reasonable to make it a standard or full round action to pick up a heavier object. I mean imagine picking up something you can barely lift. That takes as long as dragging it 5 feet or lifting it and staggering 5 feet to the side with it. The rules don't really specify, so either you assume picking up a mountain is a move action or you invent a rule based on weight vs. carrying capacity.

A phase spider can carry 260 lbs. as a light load, as easily as a commoner might pick up a 33 lb. sack or a str 8 gaming nerd a 26 lb. sack. IMO that's a move action. The only issue I might see is whether their spider legs can pick up anything at all; better have a backpack strap or clothing or some such to hook.

That makes sense if it's in your light load move action, medium load standard, heavy full round.

However it doesn't say that it is picking up the object just that the spider is grabbing the object. or would that be a free action just to grab it, not pick it up not to move it or anything just to grab the object in question.

[ericgrau]

Ethereal jaunt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealJaunt.htm), the basis of the phase spider's ability, only brings your equipment not "you + X pounds" so I'd think the spider would have to lift the body to bring it with him.

If it were a touch spell or a spell that lets you bring creatures/objects along I would think to bring something living it's a standard action to touch attack it while dead it's no harder than picking something up (same reaching motion, no need to lift) so it's a move action. But ethereal jaunt is a personal spell with no such ability to bring others along except for equipment, which generally means worn or carried items.

[Jeraa]

Manipulate an Item

In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action.

This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Move Actions.

Picking up an item is a move action, as is moving a heavy object. What exactly a heavy object is isn't stated, but I'd say a body qualifies. So its a move action.

[ericgrau]

That's picking up an item or moving a heavy object, not picking up a heavy object. For that matter to move a really heavy object (beyond a heavy load I think) is a full round action by RAW.

You could argue that picking up anything less than your heavy load limit is a move action, I might see that. But there's no real RAW cutoff. Can a commoner lift a 200 lb. object as a move action? His heavy load is 100 lbs. but he can barely get an object up to 200 lbs. a little off the ground and stagger around with it.