Skyrim III: Get rich selling protective knee gear!

[Morph Bark]

I wasn't sure about the thread title, but considering the "took an arrow to the knee" was pretty much a given ("I used to be High King, then I took an arrow to the knee") and everything else before it is alterable anyway...


Previous threads:
Skyrim I (looking for the link)
Skyrim II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222730)

Handy things:
Official forums (http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/forum/117-v-skyrim/)
Perk calculator (http://skyrimcalculator.com/)
Some things you need to know about Skyrim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12328428#post12328428) (in this thread)
The Wiki (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Quests_(Skyrim))

Mods:
Aesthetic/interface mods
Inventory Interface mod (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=667)

Fixes
Ebony Blade fix (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1946)

Gameplay additions
Skyrim Online, the MMO (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3592)
Dragon Souls to Perk points (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2063)
Marriage/Companion mod (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2176)
No Perk Prerequisites (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1943)
Perk Reset (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1876)
Speech improving Shouting (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2318)

[AgentPaper]

I'd suggest adding the Silver Ebony Gear (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=638) mod to the list.

[Morph Bark]

I found some other nice mods, though they didn't offer extra options or fixes. At first I kind of wanted to only include mods that expand upon the game or fix bugs, but then I took an arrow to the knee and realized that I could just split the list of mods into seperate categories, including "Extra Options", "Audiovisuals", "Fixes", and so on.

I will edit the first post soon to reflect that. :smallsmile:

[Anderlith]

Anyone know if using a staff increases the skill the staff is tied to?

[Gaelbert]

Anyone know if using a staff increases the skill the staff is tied to?

I believe so.

Is there a mod to fix horses' gravity? Because my horse somehow made a double jump and killed itself upon hitting the ground. It was amusing the first time, but not something I want to happen again.

[Anderlith]

I believe so.

Is there a mod to fix horses' gravity? Because my horse somehow made a double jump and killed itself upon hitting the ground. It was amusing the first time, but not something I want to happen again.

They need to add flying horses. That way they don't die when you fall, & you can hit those pesky dragons!

(Don't ask how to live through the fall after you dismount though)

[Krosta]

I am the only one who found the dialogue with Meridia very akin to the one with Stratos from Ultima VIII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFvzD2bDM2s&feature=related)? Particularly when...
...you bring her the beacon. A benevolent superhuman being lifts you in the sky speaking with that voice (yeah it's the voice that made me remember), and gives you a gift.
I don't think it's a reference, but still :smallbiggrin:

[Androgeus]

Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202414) to first thread if you're still looking.
Wonder if we should make a short list of tips & tricks to stick in first post aswell.

[nhbdy]

found a poor soul on the bethesda forums: http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/7100954/img/Anonymous/7d6e7e-2966186.jpg

and to the tips and tricks thing, it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea, a few that I know to live by
1. never spend perks until you are certain on what you will play
2. dodging is critical
3. SAVE OFTEN
4. daedric princes are more often than not evil, and anytime they are mentioned in a quest, you can expect evil to be committed

[Morph Bark]

I believe so.

Is there a mod to fix horses' gravity? Because my horse somehow made a double jump and killed itself upon hitting the ground. It was amusing the first time, but not something I want to happen again.

Get Shadowmere through the Dark Brotherhood questline, that will be a move in the right direction. Have not yet searched for modfixes on those myself.


They need to add flying horses. That way they don't die when you fall, & you can hit those pesky dragons!

(Don't ask how to live through the fall after you dismount though)

Before that, they need a mod that adds mounted combat. As is, you cannot do anything but ride around (and take damage) while mounted.

Other stuff I want to see added is polearms (combined with the above, lances would be awesome) and disguising. That will make all those looted and stolen outfits some good! Add a disguise kit to add make-up on your character to make them look like the other sex or a different race and you're good to go.

Would be popular for crossdressing enthusiasts too.

[Anderlith]

I'm all for spears, as long as you don't hold them like you did in Morrowind. THere is a lot of movement to using a spear.

[The-Mage-King]

Before that, they need a mod that adds mounted combat. As is, you cannot do anything but ride around (and take damage) while mounted.

Other stuff I want to see added is polearms (combined with the above, lances would be awesome) and disguising. That will make all those looted and stolen outfits some good! Add a disguise kit to add make-up on your character to make them look like the other sex or a different race and you're good to go.

Would be popular for crossdressing enthusiasts too.

Polearms would be awesome, as would mounted combat.


And flying horses.

[Bad Situation]

Polearms would be awesome, as would mounted combat.


And flying horses.

I'm waiting for a mod that lets me keep all of my doggies at my home.

EDIT: Dragonborn Dance Mod? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SRLzp-Hy4&feature=player_embedded) Hells yes.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't mod. It frightens me.

[nhbdy]

I'm waiting for a mod that lets me keep all of my doggies at my home.

EDIT: Dragonborn Dance Mod? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SRLzp-Hy4&feature=player_embedded) Hells yes.

and I'm waiting on one for the 360 :smallfrown:

[The-Mage-King]

EDIT: Dragonborn Dance Mod? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SRLzp-Hy4&feature=player_embedded) Hells yes.


... I must install that. Especially if I can force NPCs to dance.


Know why?


Because "player.placeatme 000387C0", "Tai" on the created creature, repeat.

...Then I'd need Fraps.


So I can upload it...



I don't mod. It frightens me.

I used to not mod, like you.


Then I had to restart, and go through a damn tutorial. several times.


Now I mod.

[Nargan]

They need to add flying horses. That way they don't die when you fall, & you can hit those pesky dragons!

(Don't ask how to live through the fall after you dismount though)

If you use the Become Ethereal shout you can survive any fall and any damage, making it my favourite shout to use when fighting anything but dragons. Power attack? Ethereal. Fireballs? Ethereal? Need to go to the northern ice wastes for a quest and end up jumping off the cliff at winterhold? Ethereal.
Note: you can't shout while falling, you have to do it BEFORE you jump :p

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to play Skyrim as a "Lawful Good" person? It seems the majority of the quests involve murdering people (Dark Brotherhood), burglary and thuggery (Thieves' Guild), just plain thuggery as well as turning into a monster (Companions), tomb robbing (College of Winterhold as well as a number of other sidequests) and various horrendous acts like cannibalism and human sacrifice (Daedric quests).

It seems like there's no way to play a paladin in Skyrim at all.

[Threeshades]

Somebody PM me if you find a mod that gets you a freely ridable (flying) dragon mount or lets you transform into a dragon. (if they had included a shout like that, the game would be downright perfect)

[Anderlith]

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to play Skyrim as a "Lawful Good" person? It seems the majority of the quests involve murdering people (Dark Brotherhood), burglary and thuggery (Thieves' Guild), just plain thuggery as well as turning into a monster (Companions), tomb robbing (College of Winterhold as well as a number of other sidequests) and various horrendous acts like cannibalism and human sacrifice (Daedric quests).

It seems like there's no way to play a paladin in Skyrim at all.

Depends on how lawful your good is. Tomb robbing is not evil or unlawful. The Jarl of Whiterun himself wants you to plunder a tomb.

[nhbdy]

Somebody PM me if you find a mod that gets you a freely ridable (flying) dragon mount or lets you transform into a dragon. (if they had included a shout like that, the game would be downright perfect)

Emphasis mine, and it would rock!

[Deth Muncher]

Emphasis mine, and it would rock!

Replace Call Dragon with BECOME Dragon. Sounds like epic win to me.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Depends on how lawful your good is. Tomb robbing is not evil or unlawful. The Jarl of Whiterun himself wants you to plunder a tomb.
Okay, so people in authority ask you to plunder tombs all the time and the people who'd bury their dead in there are long dead themselves, but still it seems like apart from the main quest there's little Truth, Justice and Imperial Way for a guy to crusade for. I guess the best way to say it is that there's no way to make things in Skyrim BETTER, only keep them from getting worse. And even then, you can actively make things worse by building the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood back up.

[hunt11]

Well, if you want to add a fall into the story then the Companions would work. Yes you do turn into a monster, but the end quest can be worked out as a quest of redemption for you and the Harbinger, because the final quest gives you an opportunity to rid, possibly, you and the harbinger of the beast within.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, if you want to add a fall into the story then the Companions would work. Yes you do turn into a monster, but the end quest can be worked out as a quest of redemption for you and the Harbinger, because the final quest gives you an opportunity to rid, possibly, you and the harbinger of the beast within.
That doesn't change the fact that even BEFORE that big change some of the jobs you receive amount to just plain thuggery. Specifically the quests where apparently someone has a beef with someone else, and hires the Companions to beat the stuffing out of them. It's like the opening quests for the Thieves Guild, except for some reason the person you beat up doesn't hate you forever afterwards (DAMMIT TALEN-JEI WILL YOU STOP MAKING ME FEEL BAD ABOUT THREATENING YOUR FIANCEE?! I GOT YOU THE AMETHYSTS FOR YOUR ENGAGEMENT RING AFTERWARDS, YOU SHOULD BE THANKING ME FOR HELPING YOU GET HITCHED TO HER! :smallfurious:)

[Gaelbert]

And even then, you can actively make things worse by building the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood back up.

Do you know why there's a Thieves Guild at all? And why they wear uniforms, especially uniforms that guards can recognize?
A person in authority (I believe it to be a jarl or a steward) once told me. You see, the Thieves Guild keeps the other thieves in line. They keep thievery stable, and prevent other forces of instability from moving in. Thievery is only one part of the Thieves Guild. The other part is keeping the non-union bandits and thieves in line. They do this with the full support and acknowledgement of the authorities in the region, and in return they are allowed leeway when it comes to their own criminal activities. After all, the Thieves Guild has rules, punishes you when you don't follow those rules, and doesn't kill people. They also preach loyalty, obedience, and don't do anything to fundamentally overthrow the powers that be.

[hunt11]

That doesn't change the fact that even BEFORE that big change some of the jobs you receive amount to just plain thuggery. Specifically the quests where apparently someone has a beef with someone else, and hires the Companions to beat the stuffing out of them. It's like the opening quests for the Thieves Guild, except for some reason the person you beat up doesn't hate you forever afterwards (DAMMIT TALEN-JEI WILL YOU STOP MAKING ME FEEL BAD ABOUT THREATENING YOUR FIANCEE?! I GOT YOU THE AMETHYSTS FOR YOUR ENGAGEMENT RING AFTERWARDS, YOU SHOULD BE THANKING ME FOR HELPING YOU GET HITCHED TO HER! :smallfurious:)

Well, going by this wiki (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Take_Up_Arms), you can ignore that quest and ask the other members for a quest. For example, for my current character the first quest for the guild after joining up was exterminating a cave full of trolls.

[Calemyr]

That doesn't change the fact that even BEFORE that big change some of the jobs you receive amount to just plain thuggery. Specifically the quests where apparently someone has a beef with someone else, and hires the Companions to beat the stuffing out of them. It's like the opening quests for the Thieves Guild, except for some reason the person you beat up doesn't hate you forever afterwards (DAMMIT TALEN-JEI WILL YOU STOP MAKING ME FEEL BAD ABOUT THREATENING YOUR FIANCEE?! I GOT YOU THE AMETHYSTS FOR YOUR ENGAGEMENT RING AFTERWARDS, YOU SHOULD BE THANKING ME FOR HELPING YOU GET HITCHED TO HER! :smallfurious:)

Okay, first: If you don't want that bar brawl mission for them, get your first mission from Aela rather than Farkas - Aela's is far simpler: an animal's gotten into someone's house. Kill it. You're helping someone who would die if they dared enter their own house. Good for you, have a brownie.

Farkas's brawl job is nowhere NEAR morally underhanded. It's a perfectly acceptable avenue of conflict resolution in the Nord mind, and I've never seen that quest point to a non-Nord, yet. (Some women, yes, but Nord women respect the tradition as much as the men and have no reservations about entering the ring.)

But the big thing, the really big thing, about the Companions is that they aren't monsters. Yeah, they're werewolves, but they don't let the blood control them - they hone it into a weapon and wield it with all the care, precision, and discipline they would a sword. That is what the Silver Hand never bothers to understand, that the Companions aren't the enemy. Feral werewolves are a problem, but the Companions extremely picky about who they let into the group, much less who the choose to upgrade - nobody who gets that far in the group lacks the self-control needed to dominate the beast blood. They are also very tightly knit, and respond strongly to one of their own being attacked.

As for being a lawful-good type, I think my first guy fit the bill pretty well:

* Joined the College - there's very little morally questionable here.
* Joined the Legion - fought for the rightful ruler who best served the people.
* Joined the Companions - good men and women who do honorable work for good coin. Bit of a blood war breaks out, but while both sides are responsible for escalating it, it was the opposition that started it.
* Declared war on the Dark Brotherhood.
* Helped Meridia and Azura, the good Daedra. Gave the others the finger. (Well, other than Sheogorath, I guess. Can't say no to a whimsical scot.)
* Worked in good faith with the Jarls of Whiterun and Morthal - good people looking after their own.
* Completed the main quest - worked for the betterment of all sides (except Ulfric personally), saved the day, but refused to choose vengeance over earnestly sought redemption.

[Avilan the Grey]

Other stuff I want to see added is polearms (combined with the above, lances would be awesome) and disguising. That will make all those looted and stolen outfits some good! Add a disguise kit to add make-up on your character to make them look like the other sex or a different race and you're good to go.


I never understood that one. Polearms were the WORST weapons in Morrowind, by far, and yet people are raging at Bethesda for not having them in Oblivion, or Skyrim.

The only mod I am interested in in that list is the inventory interface mod. Is it done? I won't install anything that is Beta. Other than that I must say all I have installed are texture enhancers. This is the first Bethesda game I don't feel a need to mod.

Now there are a few mods from FO3/NV I would like ported though, especially a time-scale mod I always used: It set time in the wild to the same as everywhere, but if in combat, and indoors, it set it to 1:1 (1 minute in real time = 1 minute in the game). Far more realistic.

I would also love to get a proper lightsource mod; there is no need to ever carry a torch, since well, all dungeons are bright as daylight (slight exaggeration) without any lightsource. Outdoors the nights are also too bright.

Since we already have proper storms in Skyrim there is no need to port Nevada Skies.

Oh and to repeat my question, since I ended up being the last person to post in the last thread:
I need a spoiler:
The quill that got lost in the lake? How do I proceed to find it? I don't get any quest marker for it anywhere.

Edit:

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to play Skyrim as a "Lawful Good" person? It seems the majority of the quests involve murdering people (Dark Brotherhood), burglary and thuggery (Thieves' Guild), just plain thuggery as well as turning into a monster (Companions), tomb robbing (College of Winterhold as well as a number of other sidequests) and various horrendous acts like cannibalism and human sacrifice (Daedric quests).

It seems like there's no way to play a paladin in Skyrim at all.

As pointed out above, if you had asked Aela, you would have gotten a "gooder" quest: Kill a frost wolf that snuck into a house, to save the people living there. (In retrospectm, this is also the first hint about the werewolf thing, since she comments about it just being the beast's nature...).

Anyway, turning into a werewolf (not a normal werewolf, mind you, but one in full control of one's abilities!) is in itself not an evil, or even chaotic act. I think your problem is that you are so hard-coded into "Dungeon And Dragons Paladin" that you have a hard time playing a knight in shining armor in any other game. You need to let go of the alignments, because there ARE NONE, and instead focus on simply roleplaying a warrior (maybe with healing magic and conjured weapons) that is also a good person and always puts the good of others first. It's as simple as that.

Edit: also, as Calemyr points out, this is not the Forgotten Realms. This is Sparta Skyrim, where an honorable duel is binding by law, and an unonoranble duel can be accepted, if the bastard had it coming.

Now my little girl is much more grey than you want; but even doing the thief guild questline you can do more good than bad,
although you swear your soul to a daedra lord
but after you do the initiation in the Champions, your main tasks circle around killing off...
the silver hand. They SOUND good, but as soon as you see them in action, you find out that they are very very bad people.

[Bad Situation]

Oh and to repeat my question, since I ended up being the last person to post in the last thread:
I need a spoiler:
The quill that got lost in the lake? How do I proceed to find it? I don't get any quest marker for it anywhere.
There is a large ship docked in Riften. Go to the ship's west most point (the bow I believe) and swim in the direction the boat is pointing. Look underwater and you should find a small boat wreckage.

EDIT: Well, Nocturne is actually pretty fair. Her terms are pretty much 'if I tell you to do something; do it.' And if you see one of her subjects in trouble you said them. She also expects you not to steal her stuff, which is understandable. From there you just serve as this metaphysical embodiment of luck who wanders around doing you want.

[Avilan the Grey]

There is a large ship docked in Riften. Go to the ship's west most point (the bow I believe) and swim in the direction the boat is pointing. Look underwater and you should find a small boat wreckage.

Thank you!!

[Morph Bark]

If you use the Become Ethereal shout you can survive any fall and any damage, making it my favourite shout to use when fighting anything but dragons. Power attack? Ethereal. Fireballs? Ethereal? Need to go to the northern ice wastes for a quest and end up jumping off the cliff at winterhold? Ethereal.
Note: you can't shout while falling, you have to do it BEFORE you jump :p

Need mod to shout whilte falling. :p

FUS RO DAH THE GROUND.


Okay, so people in authority ask you to plunder tombs all the time and the people who'd bury their dead in there are long dead themselves, but still it seems like apart from the main quest there's little Truth, Justice and Imperial Way for a guy to crusade for. I guess the best way to say it is that there's no way to make things in Skyrim BETTER, only keep them from getting worse. And even then, you can actively make things worse by building the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood back up.

Well, out of the Factions there still are the Blades and the Bard's College. Can't go really wrong with those, though their questlines are much shorter since they feature less prominently.


I never understood that one. Polearms were the WORST weapons in Morrowind, by far, and yet people are raging at Bethesda for not having them in Oblivion, or Skyrim.

Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so eh. Besides, I figure mechanically they could have majorly improved it since then.

[Deth Muncher]

Besides, I figure mechanically they could have majorly improved it since then.

They certainly have the coding for polearms - at the very least, spears. See: New Vegas.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, so people in authority ask you to plunder tombs all the time and the people who'd bury their dead in there are long dead themselves

This I have no problems with:

First of all the population at large tells you that the old tombs have a problem with undead, and people are afraid of them (this is true).

Second, these tombs were are old enough that what you are doing is Archaeology, not Grave Robbing (see "Jones, Indiana").

Third, many of these tombs are deliberately built not only to hide away and protect certain things, but has clues and keys left behind on purpose so that the "right" individual, that deserves the knowledge, can find it again. That individual is you.
Basically, if you play a "Lawful Good" character, you do not plunder these tombs, you ONLY take what you came there for. Me, on the other hand, I steal everything I can carry. Except in two specific places, at least, that are important to my character (The Sepulcher and the Companions grave tomb).

Fourth, others are challenges constructed by, or under the influence by, the gods (or draedra) themselves.

[Ozymandias]

I never understood that one. Polearms were the WORST weapons in Morrowind, by far, and yet people are raging at Bethesda for not having them in Oblivion, or Skyrim.


Spears weren't bad in Morrowind, they only seemed that way because there were relatively few of them. Long and short blades were everywhere, and there were several really good blunt weapons, but to get a really good spear you had to do Sheogorath's quest. There was a good one in Tribunal, too, iirc.

They're certainly better than axes, in any case.

[Sipex]

It would seem my other post got ninja'd by the new thread. Not wanting to waste a good story, here it is:

Had the most amazing time playing this weekend and the best part is, I was only really questing for about 15% of the time.

It all started when, at level 8, I decided to go visit the College in Winterhold...
First thing I do, since I feel rich and Whitehorse Whiterun (or whatever it's called) doesn't seem to have anything else worth buying for a mage, I spend what money I have left on a horse to accompany me on the journey and proceed to head out eastward.

Barely out of town an ice dragon lands and starts stirring up trouble. The guards all go beserk and start their thing, I run in, my horse runs in and then I accidentally fireball a guard. Suddenly I'm the bad guy and the guards introduce me to their weapons.

Reload and cross the same area, this time the dragon passes overhead but decides not to land.

I uncover some sort of temple on the road eastward and a blessing stone being guarded by a necromancer. A well placed Fire Rune spell later and I have some new robes I can leech a 75% increased mana regen off of for later. Turns out the Blessing Stone is necromancy by the way (shock).

En-route Northward I decide to veer off the main road to cut through the wilderness because travelling on the road is for ******* and almost immediately die from sudden cliffs a few times. Picking my way through the wilderness I finally cut across the river north (my horse can apparently swim).

Things start getting snowy and I come across an old fort of some kind which is not related to my journey in any way at all, so naturally I get off my horse and head right in. Some group called the Silver Hand has set up shop here (judging from what I've gleaned from a few posts, they're fairly major, eh?) and I'm not entirely sure why they want me dead on sight but they all have quite pricey armor so I'm happy to liberate it from their bodies.

Found a bunch of werewolf corpses and finally a living werewolf locked up in a cell. I try to talk to him and he's not really all that interested but since the lock is master level and I'm addicted to picking locks I open it thinking "Oh boy, now I get a new friend!"

One reloaded save later and I decide the werewolf can stay in his cell, no matter HOW hard the lock is to open. It's just not worth it.

Found some sort of boss at the end of this place, had a flaming axe. Not sure I was supposed to fight him yet since he'd kill me in two hits but I fought him (and died many times) before working out a winning strategy and getting some very nice gear off him which I'll leech the enchantments off of later.

Winning strategy:
1) Cast Fire Rune between me and him.
2) Blast him with firebolt to lure him my way.
3) Run until my mana regens.
4) Repeat.

Finally reached Ulfric Stormcloak's city (can't remember the name offhand) after my excursion and kind of joined the Stormcloak Rebellion. Got asked to take out an Ice Wraith. Also, planted a ring in some woman's house and got paid to do it!

Didn't spend a long time here, was out before the day was done and back on the road.

Somehow ('somehow') I ended up in the middle of the mountains, far away from the road. This has nothing to do with a cave which I randomly decided I was going to hunt down. Ran into a group of bandits fighting a Snow Wolf or two. Joined sides with the bandits and killed the Snow Wolf...then killed the bandits.

Found a cave full of large, black centipede-like creatures who spit...something and the gollum-esque humanoids who live alongside them. Killed a few of both (although the humanoids were incredibly tough, doing 3/4ths my health in damage with a single arrow) before I was inevitably chased out of the caves. Marked the caves for future purging as I fled.

Found out just how hard Snow Wolves are when you don't have a group of bandits to weather the damage for you. Finally (after many tries) killed a group of two Snow Wolves and four Wolves by heroically perching on a stone, heroically out of reach and blasting them with fire...heroically.

Ran into a group of Companions fighting a couple Ice Wraiths. The Companions completely destroyed the Wraiths before I could react. Thank gods these weren't the Wraiths I was looking for...

Found an abandoned temple full of loot, now it's just an abandoned temple.

Found an abandoned camp with no loot but a single, random horse just sort of sitting around. No option to steal the horse either, just ride it. I wait for several in game hours to see if anyone shows up and nobody does. I determine the horse must've set up this camp himself and leave my horse alone with him to chill while I go swimming in ice water.

Figured out how to fill Soul Gems right around the time I ran into Horkers. Now I have a bunch of Horker souls trapped in gems.

Found out just how hard it is to take on an Ice Wraith. Even after taking a Frost Resistance Potion it manages to nearly kill me in one direct hit. I decide the best strategy is simply to not get hit and I proceed to take advantage of the fact that it seems to only be able to shoot bursts of cold in straight lines. Turn on Yakety-Sax while the next ten minutes consists of myself and the Wraith running up and down the island blasting fire and ice back and forth at each other. I won.

Found another cave completely by accident and not at all because I saw the marker and said to myself "Oooh! Cave!"

Met my first Troll (Frost Troll!) in said cave and managed to deplete his health by 3/4ths while kiting him around his lair. At this point I run into my second and third trolls who show me the meaning of teamwork like we're watching an anime re-dubbed by 4kids (Hint: It's not friendship). Cave is marked for purging at a much later time.

Come across a little cubby ruin where a bandit has set up shop and proceeds to attack me on sight. One Fire Rune spell later and I'm looting hefty amount of potions, alchemy ingrediants and recipes. Meanwhile, his buddy returns home wielding a magic greataxe and ambushes me at the entrance while I'm in the process of leaving. After a close battle I'm so encumbered by valuable (but heavy) gear that I can only walk a slow pace without my horse.

About 15 minutes outside Winterhold I come across a Fire Mage Apprentice and an Ice Mage Apprentice duelling. I sit on the sidelines and root for the Fire Mage since I'm kind of partial to fire spells at this time and he responds by losing by a landslide.

At this point the Ice Mage decides I'm next (although I'm not sure why) so I'm forced to take advantage of his low health and my full mana bar and eventually encumber myself even further.

What's sad is the Fire Mage probably would've attacked me too...

About 10 a minute walk (slow walk) outside Winterhold my horse and I get attacked by a pair of Snow Wolves. My horse is killed in the ensuing battle (does his health regen over time? He died really fast). I slowly, slowly walk the last 10 minutes to Winterhold.

Finished my journey at level 10.

TLDR; The best adventures are the ones you make up yourself.

[GungHo]

They're actually more-or-less all very pleasant and cordial people, with Babette being hands-down the single nicest character in Skyrim to be around. They just kill people; it's what they do. Adventurers in Skyrim kill people all the time and the Dark Brotherhood doesn't do so out of malice. It's just business, after all. I felt much closer to the Dark Brotherhood than I did any of the other factions. They really feel like a family, albeit a non-conventional one.
Hannibal Lecter is a nice guy too, but that doesn't mean that if he tells me "I'd like to have you over for dinner" that I'm going to say, "oooh, I'll bring the wine".


Exactly. Siding with the Empire is more or less the same as practicing religious persecution, and the Stormcloaks have a host of problems themselves...
It reminds me a lot of New Vegas in that sense. No major player is without some fault, though some are more up-front about their problems than others. Though, they don't get quite as fascist as the NCR or as repugnant as Caesar's Legion.


Say, I had a quick question: Is vampirism worth it? Worth the downsides, I mean? I'm playing a greatsword-swinging, bow-shooting, stealthy Nord, if it makes a difference.
No.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

No, spears sucked. The only redeeming feature is their reach. Long blade, blunt and axe all had better enchant value on the 2 handed (and some one handed) daedric versions. Plus the stab attack was the only one that did any damage. Other weapons did decent chop and slash damage.

[Archonic Energy]

I got Fined in Solitude for...
killing the Emperor
... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores... :smallmad:

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

[Sipex]

I got Fined in Solitude for...
killing the Emperor
... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores... :smallmad:

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

I'd like to see how that conversation would've gone in a D&D game.

You: "So...I...uh...heard someone, not me, killed the emperor while no witnesses were around."
Guard: "Yeah, there's a 1000 gold bounty on your his head."
You: "Really? That's it? For killing an Emperor? If I were the theoretical assassin, which I'm not, I could just pay it off, like that?"
Guard: "He took away casual Fridays so we weren't all that jazzed about him anyways."
You: "Awesome. So...uh...I'd like to pay off this mysterious assassin's fine, who isn't me. I just feel like dropping 1000 gold on something which would not affect me at all."
Guard: "You just happen to have 1000 gold to drop on a bounty?"
You: "Who doesn't?"

[Tome]

I got Fined in Solitude for...
killing the Emperor
... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores... :smallmad:

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

Sounds a bit like the 40 gold "getting Thalmor blood on my nice clean carpets" fine you get for beating the Thalmor ambassador to death.

[Gaius Marius]

Again, probably bugs, but entirely immersion-friendly..

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, first: If you don't want that bar brawl mission for them, get your first mission from Aela rather than Farkas - Aela's is far simpler: an animal's gotten into someone's house. Kill it. You're helping someone who would die if they dared enter their own house. Good for you, have a brownie.

Farkas's brawl job is nowhere NEAR morally underhanded. It's a perfectly acceptable avenue of conflict resolution in the Nord mind, and I've never seen that quest point to a non-Nord, yet. (Some women, yes, but Nord women respect the tradition as much as the men and have no reservations about entering the ring.)

But the big thing, the really big thing, about the Companions is that they aren't monsters. Yeah, they're werewolves, but they don't let the blood control them - they hone it into a weapon and wield it with all the care, precision, and discipline they would a sword. That is what the Silver Hand never bothers to understand, that the Companions aren't the enemy. Feral werewolves are a problem, but the Companions extremely picky about who they let into the group, much less who the choose to upgrade - nobody who gets that far in the group lacks the self-control needed to dominate the beast blood. They are also very tightly knit, and respond strongly to one of their own being attacked.

As for being a lawful-good type, I think my first guy fit the bill pretty well:

* Joined the College - there's very little morally questionable here.
* Joined the Legion - fought for the rightful ruler who best served the people.
* Joined the Companions - good men and women who do honorable work for good coin. Bit of a blood war breaks out, but while both sides are responsible for escalating it, it was the opposition that started it.
* Declared war on the Dark Brotherhood.
* Helped Meridia and Azura, the good Daedra. Gave the others the finger. (Well, other than Sheogorath, I guess. Can't say no to a whimsical scot.)
* Worked in good faith with the Jarls of Whiterun and Morthal - good people looking after their own.
* Completed the main quest - worked for the betterment of all sides (except Ulfric personally), saved the day, but refused to choose vengeance over earnestly sought redemption.
That still leaves the question of the Thieves Guild. You can't just ignore them, since Brynjolf accosts you after you spend some time in Riften, and you need to work with the Thieves Guild to find Esbern anyway.

[Opperhapsen]

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to play Skyrim as a "Lawful Good" person? It seems the majority of the quests involve murdering people (Dark Brotherhood), burglary and thuggery (Thieves' Guild), just plain thuggery as well as turning into a monster (Companions), tomb robbing (College of Winterhold as well as a number of other sidequests) and various horrendous acts like cannibalism and human sacrifice (Daedric quests).

It seems like there's no way to play a paladin in Skyrim at all.

The companions are not thugs.
Their entire thing is that they're honourable mercenaries. (The bar brawl for example is you serving as a champion in someone else's fight, a totally legit thing in Skyrim that not even the person you fight complains about)
They don't take any crap from anyone, but they don't hurt the innocent, they don't steal, and they aren't assassins.

The "grave robbing" for the College is only evil as far as archaeology as a discipline is evil.

The cannibalism skeeved me out, and is one of the reasons I cannot take Bethesda seriously in their fury against child murder mods.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Do you know why there's a Thieves Guild at all? And why they wear uniforms, especially uniforms that guards can recognize?
A person in authority (I believe it to be a jarl or a steward) once told me. You see, the Thieves Guild keeps the other thieves in line. They keep thievery stable, and prevent other forces of instability from moving in. Thievery is only one part of the Thieves Guild. The other part is keeping the non-union bandits and thieves in line. They do this with the full support and acknowledgement of the authorities in the region, and in return they are allowed leeway when it comes to their own criminal activities. After all, the Thieves Guild has rules, punishes you when you don't follow those rules, and doesn't kill people. They also preach loyalty, obedience, and don't do anything to fundamentally overthrow the powers that be.
You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

[nhbdy]

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

well the only thing you HAVE to do for the thieves guild is the planting of the ring, while it is evil, I think if you hang around you can talk to the guard about it (that arrests the guy you framed, but this is pure hearsay, untested on my part) and even it could be viewed as a necessary evil, or you could ignore them entirely and slog through the ratway until you find esbern yourself

[Gaelbert]

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.
I'm not necessarily trying to justify their actions, just to point out that the Thieves Guild fits within a somewhat lawful framework.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.
What? :smallconfused:

[Opperhapsen]

well the only thing you HAVE to do for the thieves guild is the planting of the ring, while it is evil, I think if you hang around you can talk to the guard about it (that arrests the guy you framed, but this is pure hearsay, untested on my part) and even it could be viewed as a necessary evil, or you could ignore them entirely and slog through the ratway until you find esbern yourself
Uhm.
No.
It's not pure hear-say.
He's right there, in the dungeon.
And Esbern won't open the door until you get the information from Brynjolf. :smallmad:


Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.
I'm not necessarily trying to justify their actions, just to point out that the Thieves Guild fits within a somewhat lawful framework.

Brand Shei was just some guy trying to find out who he is.


Do you know why there's a Thieves Guild at all? And why they wear uniforms, especially uniforms that guards can recognize?
A person in authority (I believe it to be a jarl or a steward) once told me. You see, the Thieves Guild keeps the other thieves in line. They keep thievery stable, and prevent other forces of instability from moving in. Thievery is only one part of the Thieves Guild. The other part is keeping the non-union bandits and thieves in line. They do this with the full support and acknowledgement of the authorities in the region, and in return they are allowed leeway when it comes to their own criminal activities. After all, the Thieves Guild has rules, punishes you when you don't follow those rules, and doesn't kill people. They also preach loyalty, obedience, and don't do anything to fundamentally overthrow the powers that be.
So it's okay because the Corrupt jarl is okay with it?
What..
What kind of logic is that?

[Gaelbert]

So it's okay because the Corrupt jarl is okay with it?
What..
What kind of logic is that?

I am trying to show that they can operate within a lawful framework, which doesn't at all mean I think it's okay. But the way some people are playing their characters, obeying authority is a virtue in its own right. So yes, for some people here it would be okay. (Without trying to restart the Empire v. Stormcloak argument, try to think for a second about what the Empire's rule in Skyrim is based on. [I'll give you a hint. It's not consent of the people, it starts with a "v" and rhymes with "iolence."] But yet the Empire is generally regarded here as the lawful good-est option.)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Less evil way to get access to thieves guild.
Do nothing. Don't steal the ring or at least don't plant it. You'll still get in. Then don't do any quests. You can still get into the flagon and talk to other mission critical NPCs for the dark brotherhood and main quest.

[Dhavaer]

And Esbern won't open the door until you get the information from Brynjolf. :smallmad:

Then you've run into a bug. Esbern will open the door with a Persuade check or Delphine's pass phrase.

[BladeofObliviom]

So, I have a question:

Using Oblivion as a baseline, how abusable is Skyrim's Magic System? In Oblivion, one could use a Drain Health 100 for 1 second spell to basically make melee weapons obsolete at a very low level, and such a spell would remain highly effective until level 30 or so.

Can you do silly things like that in Skyrim, or is it more balanced?

[Avaris]

I haven't played Skyrim, and won't do for a while (need a better PC), but I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for continuing to put spoilers in spoiler tags on this thread: I've been reading through it, and have got hints of the awesome without much stuff being spoiled.

Why am I saying this? Well, I just randomly opened one spoiler (in Archonic Energy's post above), and immediately saw why it was a spoiler... lesson learned, won't be doing that again :smallbiggrin:

[Opperhapsen]

So, I have a question:

Using Oblivion as a baseline, how abusable is Skyrim's Magic System? In Oblivion, one could use a Drain Health 100 for 1 second spell to basically make melee weapons obsolete at a very low level, and such a spell would remain highly effective until level 30 or so.

Can you do silly things like that in Skyrim, or is it more balanced?
You cannot craft spells, and the default spells are... not very good at direct damage.
Spells are really best if you use them together with another approach.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Yeah, destruction spells don't scale very well. Still if you can get good enough enchanting, you can cast spells for free from a specific school. Casting Expert and Master level spells for free is pretty nice.

[LordShotGun]

Not being able to make spells is one of skyrims biggest faults IMO. I loved being able to play a cleric of sorts in oblivion (focusing on heavy armor, healing magic and buffs) and now it is practically impossible with healing spells that you can barely feel and an absence of most buff spells.

[GungHo]

Yeah, destruction spells don't scale very well.
There are mods for that but the scale problem for those goes the other way eventually and then you're like Cyclops at the Battle of Hastings.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Less evil way to get access to thieves guild.
Do nothing. Don't steal the ring or at least don't plant it. You'll still get in. Then don't do any quests. You can still get into the flagon and talk to other mission critical NPCs for the dark brotherhood and main quest.

That ignores the important parts of the questline though. That's my problem.

I want to stop Mercer Frey. I want to make sure Galius gets justice and the Skeleton Key is returned to its rightful place. I want to pledge myself to Nocturnal (my character is very pious, even to the Daedra). I want, no, REALLY WANT that Amulet of Articulation you receive upon winning control of the Guild. But to get there, I have to do very un-heroic things, especially in the opening quest for it. It bugs me that every time I try to talk to Talen-Jei, Keirava, the owner of the Pawned Prawn, etc, all I'm met with is loathing.
My obsessive paladin-like, do-gooder nature is now conflicting with my obsessive completionist nature.

[Arcran]

Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?

My sneaky guy did. The first few guards didn't even know what hit them. The last few guards at least suspected I was in the room. Serves the smug Altmer's right. Hammerfell will rise again!

[Ogremindes]

Hammerfell will rise again!

Uh, Hammerfell is quite independent.

[Person_Man]

Created from stuff we've posted on the previous threads, here is the:

List of things I wish I knew before spending 30+ hours playing Skyrim and then restarting...


1) Never attack a Giant or their mammoths (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/11/09) prior to level 20ish unless you have some place to run away to where they can't reach you or maxed out Sneak Attack Perks. They will kill you.

2) After the tutorial, follow whoever you escaped with to Riverwood. Talk to everyone in town, and do all of the quests that they give you, especially the menial ones. I know that there's a massive world out there to explore. Don't worry. You'll get to it. Just go follow the main quest for the first 5 hours or so. It will teach you and your character many things and make your life as a player much easier in the long run.

3) You can change which quests show up on your compass and map from the Quest menu (hit Esc by default on the PC). Select just 1 quest at a time. (The interface is cruddy, so this takes a little trial and error to figure out). Buy the Clairvoyance spell from Lucan Valerius at the Riverwood Trader in Riverwood, and use it. This will dramatically cut down on the amount of time going in the wrong direction and backtracking.

4) If you are a ranged build (Archery or Destruction focused), hate being surprised by enemies from behind, or just want to have someone to carry extra treasure back with you from dungeons, then be sure to get a Follower. Many different NPCs will do this for free (if you complete certain quests) or for a small fee, and you can get one as soon Riverwood.

5) If a combat is too hard, run away and come back later. Your enemy will be at the same level of difficulty, but you will be stronger.

6) It's possible to play the game without any crafting (Smithing, Enchanting, Alchemy, and their red headed step son Cooking). But doing so is an easy way to dramatically increase all of your abilities.

7) Always carry a Pickaxe. It can be used to mine ore nodes, which will yield ore and occasionally gems. Ore can be turned into ingots at Smelters, which are behind most weapon shops. (The first one you will encounter will probably be in Whitehall. There isn't one in Riverwood). Gems can be combined with precious metal ingots and forged into jewelry, dramatically increasing their sale prices.

8) In Riverwood (and many other locations) there is a Woodchopping Block. If you pick up the nearby Woodcutter's Axe, you can chop wood there. This wood can be sold to Hod in Riverwood for 5 gold a piece, and combined with 1 leather strap to enhance a bow (increasing it's sale price, making bows some of the most efficient loot to carry back to town)

9) Food can be combined and cooked over certain pots near campfires or fire places. The resulting meals are can generally be sold for a price that's higher then their constituent elements, or eaten to restore or increase the restoration rate of health and stamina. But it doesn't increase any Skill, and does not produce as much money or as powerful results as Alchemy. So don't bother collecting food.

10) If you're nice to certain dogs and talk to them, they will follow you and fight by your side, in addition to your humanoid Follower. The best dog in the game is Barbas, who can be found on the road outside of the city of Falkreath (in the south near the border). He has a quest associated with him. So if you recruit him, follow him to his cave, go inside and clear it out entirely, talk to the statue, but do not retrieve the ax to complete his quest, he is immortal.

11) Early in the game you can use pretty much any weapon, spell, or item that you want. But by mid game if you try to use something that is outside of your selected Perks, it could be uncastable, or deal negligible damage, or add negligible defense. If you try to be a master of all Skills, you will suck at everything. So pick 4-6 Skills that reflect a play style that you enjoy, and specialize in them.

12) Similarly, if you make poor Skill and Perk choices early in the game, it will make the late game much more difficult. You cannot convince boss enemies not to kill you with Speech, or prevent their attacks by Pickpocketing them, or Lockpick your way out of the problem. In addition, many high level boss enemies are immune to Fire, Cold, Electricity, Illusions, Fear, Paralyze, and/or Poisons, and occasionally will not be distracted by Conjured creatures or Follower. Thus playing a pure Thief will make combat extremely difficult, and playing a pure Mage is powerful early in the game, but much more difficult later in the game. So it's generally advisable to invest in One Handed or Two Handed and/or Archery, plus Heavy Armor or Light Armor or Alteration.

13) On the PC, you can hot key Favorites. Open the Favorite menu and push a number while highlighting something and it is now keyed to that number. Also, if your Mouse has multiple buttons, then there is probably an driver on the internet somewhere that lets you re-program those buttons. This will make spell casting much more tolerable.

14) Assaulting chickens in a capital crime. This includes, but is not limited to, weapon strikes, dragon shouts, fireballs, electricity, ice blasts, and shield bashes.

15) Save often, especially in long trips, after tough battles, before picking a difficult lock, before opening a door in a dungeon, before navigating a death trap. Also be sure to Save in different slots at the end of each quest and before you level up, so that you can more easily backtrack if you later change your mind. The default key for Quicksave on the PC is F5. Use it.

16) There are a wide variety of traps spread throughout the game, especially dungeons, including pressure plates, swinging and spinning axes, trapped chests, etc. If you're traveling with a Follower, you'll often want to tell them to Stay Here while you navigate the trap and find how to turn it off (usually a chain or button immediately after the trap, although pressure plates do not have an off button). If you follow the main quest for about 8 hours you will also get a Dragon Shout that lets you ignore damage, which is handy for this and for jumping down cliffs.

17) If you come across a door locked by a puzzle in a dungeon, the solution is usually in the room itself (look around the room and search for a pattern of symbols on the walls, a journal, or something else you can interact with), or on the MacGuffin for that dungeon (ie, look at the Claw in your inventory, and click on it so that you can rotate the item).

18) Stealing is an easy way to get stuff that you want, and there are generally few plot repercussions unless you are caught. Just Save the game, Sneak or cast Invisibility, and pick it up. If you get caught, reload. All Stolen items get tagged with a red hand in your inventory. Items with the stolen tag can only be sold to Fences, and the only decent fences in the game involve joining the Thieves Guild (speak with Brynjolf in the Riften marketplace) or Dark Brotherhood. In addition, if an item can be Enchanted, mixed with Alchemy, or made into something else with Smithing, doing so will remove the stolen tag, allowing you to sell it.

19) "Read" every book you come across. You can do so just by picking it up - you do not need to page through it and physically read it. Books can improve Skills and grant new quests. You can read a book that someone else owns without stealing it by picking it up (default E key on PC) and then putting it down (default Tab on PC).

20) You can fast travel by going to the map (default M on PC) and clicking on any location that you've visited before. You can also go to Whitehall or any other major city and pay the caravan out front to bring you to any major city. This is a good thing to do soon after visiting Whiterun, just so that you have multiple starting points for traveling.

21) Your inventory is going to fill up fast, even if you frequently make trips back to town to sell things. You can store things in pretty much any random container, such as the barrels, chests, etc. But be wary that NPCs will occasionally pick them up, and container tend to re-spawn (replacing your stuff with random stuff appropriate for the container) once a month (in game). If you want a permanent place to store things, you need to buy a house and use the chest inside of it, which is never stolen from and never respawns. To do so, go to any major city and do any quests for the Jarl, so that you can become a Thane and own property.

22) Shopkeepers have limited gold and items that you may want to buy repeatedly (like ingots, alchemical items, or petty soul gems, to grind crafting Skills). If they run out, leave their shop and Wait (default T on PC) for 48 hours. All of their inventory will often be replaced.

23) Every time Steam or Skyrim is patched/updated (which is about once a weak), you may need to "Verify the Integrity of the Game" in the "Properties" tab before Skyrim launches properly.

24) Once you max out Enchanting and take the appropriate Perks, you're capable of making 4 pieces of armor that reduce the casting cost of any magical Skill by 100%. Since you can Enchant each item with 2 Enchantments, you can basically cast spells from 2 Skills for free or 3 Skills 75%/75%/50% off. So unless you're dedicated caster who refuses to use a One Handed or Two Handed weapon in the early game and intends to use Illusion AND Destruction AND Alteration AND Restoration heavily, there's not much reason to invest in Magicka or Perks that reduce casting costs.

25) Similarly, by level 30ish (or sooner, if you do certain quests early and get the weaker low level versions of certain unique items) you will find a weapon with the Drain/Absorb Stamina Enchantment. These damage your enemy's Stamina and add the same amount to yours when you hit an enemy. There's also a Light Armor Perk which increases Stamina Regeneration by 50%, and the Lady Stone gives you +25% Mana and Health Regeneration. So overall, minimal Stamina investment is needed to maximize your melee build as well.

26) Things that are most optimal to do early in the game:

The main Whiterun->Greybeard quests (lets you buy a house in Whiterun, spawns dragons, grants numerous Shouts)
Find the more useful Standing Stones (www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stones).
Whichever Dragon Priest Mask(s) (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Priest_Mask) best suites your build
Whichever Daedric Artifacts (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Artifacts_(Skyrim)) best suite your build
The Heart of Dibella (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Dibella) (+10% melee damage)
The Book of Love (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Book_of_Love) (+15% resist magic)
Unfathomable Depths (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unfathomable_Depths) (+25% armor rating if wearing all Dwarvern Armor, Smithing increases +15% faster)
Meet Enthir at the College of Winterhold (sells rare Daedra hearts)
Frostflow Lighthouse (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Frostflow_Lighthouse) (+10% from healing spells)


26) Things that are most optimal to do late in the game:


Most quests involving a leveled item (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveled_Items), including the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and most Thane quests.
Miscellaneous Quests in general, which usually provide random level dependent treasure.
Just walk around and explore for the sake of exploring, going into and clearing random dungeons, caves, and buildings. You could easily spend 40+ hours doing this early in the game, and things will get very difficult for your character at mid-levels because you don't bother to unlock any Shouts.
Grinding any Skill (such as Persuade, Sneak, Smithing, Enchantment, etc). Grinding any Skill increases the difficulty of the game. The increase at low levels is dramatic, and can make the game unplayable (without changing the settings). Doing so at higher levels (when you basic combat Skills are already high, and you have plenty of potent equipment) has less of an effect on the game's difficulty.

[Derthric]

Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?

For my Honeymoon with Aela we went up there and wiped out all the guards out front too. Ah Love.

[nhbdy]

Uhm.
It's not pure hear-say.
He's right there, in the dungeon.
And Esbern won't open the door until you get the information from Brynjolf. :smallmad:

the part I was referring to as hearsay was the correcting of the scheme by talking to the guard that arrests the guy you planted the ring on, I haven't tested it, so I was saying that as a disclaimer

[Morph Bark]

That ignores the important parts of the questline though. That's my problem.

I want to stop Mercer Frey. I want to make sure Galius gets justice and the Skeleton Key is returned to its rightful place. I want to pledge myself to Nocturnal (my character is very pious, even to the Daedra). I want, no, REALLY WANT that Amulet of Articulation you receive upon winning control of the Guild. But to get there, I have to do very un-heroic things, especially in the opening quest for it. It bugs me that every time I try to talk to Talen-Jei, Keirava, the owner of the Pawned Prawn, etc, all I'm met with is loathing.
My obsessive paladin-like, do-gooder nature is now conflicting with my obsessive completionist nature.

Alternative: play up the "undercover agent" angle. Don't do the side jobs. Don't kill anyone (like instructed). Then in the end, bring them all to justice.

Though this is also one of the reasons why I dislike there not being a Disguise skill. It could be so awesome.

[Valaqil]

I've read / been told that theft from a town affects that town's economy. Can anyone verify/deny this?

[A Rainy Knight]

So, having just gotten my first chance to really put some time into this game, I'm glad that the Dark Brotherhood is turning out to be just as enjoyable in this game as in Oblivion. They always seem like the most lovable and close-knit faction to me, although the Companions aren't too bad either. The Companions still don't have an adorable 200-year-old little girl alchemy instructor or an old man who melts people's faces off, though. :smalltongue:

I noticed that the Dark Brotherhood has a set of robes as well as armor, too. What would be a good way to go about being a mage-assassin? I was thinking of a character focused on Sneak, Illusion, and Conjuration to creep up on enemies and either go for a sneak attack with a bound weapon or generally sow chaos with rage spells and summoned critters, using Quiet Casting to try to stay out of the fight.

[nhbdy]

I noticed that the Dark Brotherhood has a set of robes as well as armor, too. What would be a good way to go about being a mage-assassin? I was thinking of a character focused on Sneak, Illusion, and Conjuration to creep up on enemies and either go for a sneak attack with a bound weapon or generally sow chaos with rage spells and summoned critters, using Quiet Casting to try to stay out of the fight.

you are talking about what I'm doing right now... creepy... but it works well, enjoy it, I'm having a blast with just that sort of character!

[Gaelbert]

If/when I draw up another character, it'll be a sneaky destruction mage/assassin (I have a type and I'm sticking to it). It'll be hard to work out right, especially since it's hard not to notice a fireball, but it should be fun.

How do dogs work out for sneaky characters? I don't need a follower, I can one hit most everything on my own, but I do like dogs. Will they give me away when I'm trying to sneak?

[ex cathedra]

Person_Man: Regarding #26, I never found Daedra Hearts particularly difficult to find. They regularly are stocked in Alchemical shops past a certain level and there's a guaranteed four hearts at the Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon every ten days.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

The Companions still don't have an adorable 200-year-old little girl alchemy instructor or an old man with Jim Cummings's raspy voice who melts people's faces off, though. :smalltongue:
.
FIFY :smallbiggrin:

[Thanatos 51-50]

I need a spoiler:
The quill that got lost in the lake? How do I proceed to find it? I don't get any quest marker for it anywhere.


Told you in the last thread: reposted here for convenience.

Thank you, good sir.

Edit: They are now happily married...
Spoiler request:
The quill lost in the lake? I get no questmarker for that one... how do I proceed to find it?

Spioiler Answer!
If you're Argonian or have water-breathing this is a lot easier (due to the lack of an oxygen meter).
1) Go out to the Riften Docks
2) commence swimming towards Goldenglow Estate
3) Ensure you can see the bottom of the lake at all times.
4) When you see a sunken Rowboat, that's your target, It should be about halfway between the docks and Goldenglow.
5) Pick the lock on the strongbox


Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?

I tried.

There was nobody home.

[Muz]

Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?

I didn't kill a single one until I got down into the dungeon. Up to that point I'd thought the idea was not to be seen. I smuggled in about 6 invisibility potions.

I was annoyed to find, however, that despite my being an Altmer and wearing a full Thalmor outfit that I found laying around, the guards still attacked me on sight. :smallconfused:

[Drakefall]

Recently my fire-loving Dumner mage found himself appointed as Arch-mage of Winterhold. While he is certainly a hand at destruction and alteration magic and can raid a tomb like Indiana Jones, he's not entirely sure he has the qualifications to lead an academic institute. Still the place seems to run itself with no one ever really bothering to ask him to do any form of paper work so he's quite content.

The various explosions and magical fallout that preceded his appointment however left him feeling that he should probably seek a source of funding before his college goes bankrupt financing the repair bills. The source in question? Why the Thieves Guild of course!

Upon arriving in Riften he found his way into the Guild with little trouble, was declared a thievin' prodigy by a large Nord man and sent about some basic mafioso tasks. All well and good, but this isn't real thievery he railed! "Oho!" cried fate, as it is want to do, and along came a proper job: The Goldenglow Heist/Arson/WhateverThePeopleWillCallIt!

And so, in the late hours, Ar'ith left his faithful housecarl Lydia (who apparently doesn't care that her thane and saviour of the world is descending into the world of organised crime) upon the shores of the WhateverTheLakeIsCalledIDon'tHaveTimeForMinorDetai ls and swam out towards the Goldenglow island to find this secret sewer entrance he heard so much about.

Well he found it, but all it really seemed to do besides affording him the opportunity to char some skeever was take him from one side of the island to the other. He's pretty sure he could have just hopped up the little rock face to reach the door the sewers popped him up next to, but no matter, onwards to riches!

He managed his way through the house rather well through the use of stealth and the muffle spell, which seemed to work a treat despite his abysmal illusion skill (He never thought he might one day actually need it when liberal application of fire and frost had served him well so far). He even managed to sneak up to Arangoth's (sp?) room undetected to steal his key... only to find him sneak-crouched in the corner of his room behind a cupboard...

:smallconfused:

Ar'ith: "... oh well, he's clearly sleep... sneaking... whatever, I'm picking his pocket. And so I did!"

Funnily enough, upon returning to the door leading back downstairs a subtitle popped up on the screen:

Arangoth: "What was that noise?"

:smallconfused:

Ar'ith: "Frikkin' skooma addicts."

The rest of the sneaking went rather well. Ar'ith made his way to the basement and only had to burn and stab to death one guard who just couldn't be made to not look at where the brightly lit stairs Ar'ith had to go down were. Perhaps there is reason to carrying around those silly bow things that don't shoot balls of fire.

Safe robbed and a another, this time useful, trip through the sewers later and Ar'ith was back outside. Now to burn up some beehives. Oh, but they look well guarded. What to do...

Solution: Ar'ith, in a moment of brilliance, swam around to the back of the island upon which the beehives sat, hopped his way up the rock face to the top, stood on a rock which afforded him just enough height to peer over the fence and spot the top of the beehives... and blast at them with fire before leaping back into the water to retrieve his housecarl and report the job finished.

And you thought you were so smug, eh Mr. Goldenglow quest?:smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

26) Things that are most optimal to do early in the game:

The main Whiterun->Greybeard quests (lets you buy a house in Whiterun, spawns dragons, grants numerous Shouts)
Find the more useful Standing Stones (www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stones).
Whichever Dragon Priest Mask(s) (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Priest_Mask) best suites your build
Whichever Daedric Artifacts (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Artifacts_(Skyrim)) best suite your build
The Heart of Dibella (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Dibella) (+10% melee damage)
The Book of Love (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Book_of_Love) (+15% resist magic)
Unfathomable Depths (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unfathomable_Depths) (+25% armor rating if wearing all Dwarvern Armor, Smithing increases +15% faster)
Meet Enthir at the College of Winterhold (sells rare Daedra hearts)
Frostflow Lighthouse (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Frostflow_Lighthouse) (+10% from healing spells)



Well, I will never be using
...those masks. They are simply way too ugly to be used by ANY of my characters, period. They look HIDEOUS.

Personally I finished the thieves guild quests at lvl 16, so yes, I could have gotten a better version of the armor, I guess. I am slowly working on getting my smithing skill up to 60, so I can improve it though.


However: Damn it! Now I want to start over...

[Calemyr]

26) Things that are most optimal to do early in the game:

The main Whiterun->Greybeard quests (lets you buy a house in Whiterun, spawns dragons, grants numerous Shouts)
Find the more useful Standing Stones (www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stones).
Whichever Dragon Priest Mask(s) (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Priest_Mask) best suites your build
Whichever Daedric Artifacts (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Artifacts_(Skyrim)) best suite your build
The Heart of Dibella (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Dibella) (+10% melee damage)
The Book of Love (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Book_of_Love) (+15% resist magic)
Unfathomable Depths (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unfathomable_Depths) (+25% armor rating if wearing all Dwarvern Armor, Smithing increases +15% faster)
Meet Enthir at the College of Winterhold (sells rare Daedra hearts)
Frostflow Lighthouse (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Frostflow_Lighthouse) (+10% from healing spells)



I cannot find the quest give for the Unfathomable Depths quest - "From Deepest Depths". I've visited the Fishery during the day, I've visited Healga's Bunkhouse at night, but the helmed argonian is nowhere to be found. Is there a minimum level for the quest?

Second, Agent of Dibella isn't supposed to give you a +10% melee damage in general, just against the opposite gender. But then, the reward for Unfathomable Depths is very different than what it's supposed to be: a boost to all armors and a fortify blacksmith effect.

[Anderlith]

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

You can purposefully fail the quest (start the quest, & get everyone set up then walk into a shop or outside Riften) Bro-nolf will then talk to you about other stuff

[Bad Situation]

26) Things that are most optimal to do early in the game:

The main Whiterun->Greybeard quests (lets you buy a house in Whiterun, spawns dragons, grants numerous Shouts)
Find the more useful Standing Stones (www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stones).
Whichever Dragon Priest Mask(s) (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Priest_Mask) best suites your build
Whichever Daedric Artifacts (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Artifacts_(Skyrim)) best suite your build
The Heart of Dibella (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Dibella) (+10% melee damage)
The Book of Love (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Book_of_Love) (+15% resist magic)
Unfathomable Depths (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unfathomable_Depths) (+25% armor rating if wearing all Dwarvern Armor, Smithing increases +15% faster)
Meet Enthir at the College of Winterhold (sells rare Daedra hearts)
Frostflow Lighthouse (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Frostflow_Lighthouse) (+10% from healing spells)

If you want a readily available source of Daedra hearts, make sure you buy something from Enthir before you finish at Mage questline, otherwise the goods will no longer be available to you. If you buy at least once beforehand, he will continue selling to you at quest end.

This is the easiest way to get Hearts early on in the game, if not the most costly. Still, if you're selling enchanted goods you should easily have enough money to buy anything.

[Tome]

If you want a readily available source of Daedra hearts, make sure you buy something from Enthir before you finish at Mage questline, otherwise the goods will no longer be available to you. If you buy at least once beforehand, he will continue selling to you at quest end.

This is the easiest way to get Hearts early on in the game, if not the most costly. Still, if you're selling enchanted goods you should easily have enough money to buy anything.

I prefer to use the shrine of Mehrune's Dagon for my Daedra hearts.

Ignore what some folks say, getting access to the shrine is the real reward for doing his quest. :smalltongue:

[Avilan the Grey]

...Okay, starting over...

Almost the same character, I think, but a bound weapon specialist. This seems viable, BUT it still seems I might be spreading my perks too wide:

One-handed, Archery, Light Armor, Conjuring, Stealth and Smithing...

[Bad Situation]

...Okay, starting over...

Almost the same character, I think, but a bound weapon specialist. This seems viable, BUT it still seems I might be spreading my perks too wide:

One-handed, Archery, Light Armor, Conjuring, Stealth and Smithing...

Yeah, having two weapon sets generally eats up most of your points. Assuming you go into Conjuration for ONLY Bound Weaponry, that build might work. If you focus only on archery or only on melee you would free up at least 10 perk points. You could arguably drop all points in Light Armor if you plan on never getting hit. (http://skyrimcalculator.com/#16225)

[nhbdy]

here's what I've currently worked out as my build, for a dark elf assassin/necromancer/illusionist, I still have a few perks to play with, and wanted some thoughts on the build, what is solid/what isn't, what should be used/what shouldn't, etc... http://skyrimcalculator.com/#16245

[hunt11]

I have not played around with either magic or stealth builds, but the one issue I see is the complete lack of ability to do damage by yourself. You have invested points into the sneak backstab tree yet have not spent any points on a weapons that could actually benefit from it. So as long as you invest in one weapon perk tree you should have a solid build.

[Bad Situation]

I have not played around with either magic or stealth builds, but the one issue I see is the complete lack of ability to do damage by yourself. You have invested points into the sneak backstab tree yet have not spent any points on a weapons that could actually benefit from it. So as long as you invest in one weapon perk tree you should have a solid build.

Seeing as he took Assassin's Blade, he's probably using daggers. The prerequisite feats aren't doing him much good, but really there's not anything he can do about that. I think Armsman does affect daggers though, so points there are arguably put to good use. He's probably wearing the Dark Brotherhood gloves that double his sneak multiplier as well, so with Illusion he calms down enemies to get multiple 30x damage sneak attacks.

Anyway, here's what I think:
Illusion - Keep in mind that the bonuses to the Illusion types from your perks are added into the spell effect before dual casting takes effect. So a Master level calm effect with Animage would be (25+8)x2 and a Master level calm effect with Animage and Hypnotic Gaze would be (25+8+8)x2. If you really want to skimp you coul probably roll with just Kindred and Animage.

Conjuration - The Thrall spells (IE Master Conjuration) are pretty lame. If you just want zombies, as your perk selection would suggest, the Master level perk would just be a waste.Nevermind, I forgot Dead Thrall was a Master level spell.

Sneak - Your Sneak perks are fine, Shadow Warrior is cool but keep in mind that the confusion only lasts about a second.

Light Armor - Deft Movement could be taken out, you probably don't want to be hit in Light Armor anyway (especially since you don't have Smithing to boost your Armor Rating). It will arguably save your life on certain occasions but I wouldn't count on it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, looking at this...

As I said I am not sure if I spread myself too thin or not, but:

Orc, Female (I know, it's not optimal, I just think the world needs more of them).

Archery

One-Handed (NOT dual weilding)

Conjuration, using on weapons ONLY. No zombies, no elementals. That should limit the perks needed there.

Sneak

On top of this I would like to go for light armor and enough Smithing so I can upgrade magical weapons and armor. No need to MAKE stuff, but I want to be able to upgrade what I find or buy.

Thoughts?

[AgentPaper]

I'd suggest against going for one-handed without dual wield or a shield. One-handed and a spell isn't as useful as it might sound, when you can just press a button to prepare a spell. In return, you get the worst damage of all the melee options, and even worse you can't block unless you manually go and unequip your off-hand item, which you can't do with hotkeys. (Maybe it's easier on the console?) You'd be much better off either going for dual-wield for maximum damage, sword+shield for maximum defense, or a two-handed sword for the middle ground. (good damage and defense)

Edit: Funny how much confusion leaving out one little word can make. :smallredface:

[Avilan the Grey]

I'd suggest going for one-handed without dual wield or a shield. One-handed and a spell isn't as useful as it might sound, when you can just press a button to prepare a spell. In return, you get the worst damage of all the melee options, and even worse you can't block unless you manually go and unequip your off-hand item, which you can't do with hotkeys. (Maybe it's easier on the console?) You'd be much better off either going for dual-wield for maximum damage, sword+shield for maximum defense, or a two-handed sword for the middle ground. (good damage and defense)

Trying to understand what you wrote but you seem to advocate for and against one-handed without shield or dual w:

First you say you recommend it.

Then you say it's NOT a good idea to have a spell in your left hand and a sword in your right, because you can just press a button to prepare a spell? But preparing a spell means you drop your left hand weapon!

Then you say something about it giving you the worst damage output without protection (true) and that you can't block (false!) without unequiping my left hand item? But you were up to now talking about NOT having a left hand item??

Please clarify...?

The last part makes sense; Max damage is dual wield. But you can't block at all then.

Sword-and-board is something I will probably use at times, but this build is "Magical Archer" with a side order of "backstabber". I will only fight with a blade up front if I have to.

...Which of course means I won't use 2-handed weapons either.

[AgentPaper]

Sorry, I meant to say I suggested against it. Edited to clarify.

Also, I should mention that you can use weapons/spells/etc for various skills without putting any perks into them. Having a high rank in Archery still helps you deal ranged damage, even if you don't put any perks into it. You won't be optimal, sure, but for some things like sneak, just raw skill can be more than enough.

[Avilan the Grey]

Sorry, I meant to say I suggested against it. Edited to clarify.

Also, I should mention that you can use weapons/spells/etc for various skills without putting any perks into them. Having a high rank in Archery still helps you deal ranged damage, even if you don't put any perks into it. You won't be optimal, sure, but for some things like sneak, just raw skill can be more than enough.

Makes much more sense now :smallsmile:

The thing is that I will probably dual-wield or use a shield, but I won't put any perks in those.

Speaking of this though... I know I have done this before, and left you guys hanging, but would anyone be interested in a let's play with this character?

[The Succubus]

I used to post in Skyrim threads but then I took an arrow in the meme. :smallannoyed:

[Moonshadow]

Okay so, I've only just starting to get into Skyrim. It's more entertaining than Oblivion at least.

From perusing the threads though, I see that magic is pretty much useless because a good sword seems to kill everything. Which ruins my idea of dual wielding fireballs and and combining them into a Hadoken at my leisure.

So, whats an easy way to actually get through the game? I've only managed to kill the first dragon on my first save file (after countless reloads because stupid me drew its attention so it turned me into original recipe style nord), and so far I've got pretty much all my perks in Destruction with one or 2 in healing and conjuration, but so far I've had more luck using Heal and a sword and just spamming the heal while the mages beat me up.

I'm actually debating going dual wield, heavy armor sword guy, or light armor single sword and bow guy.

Also, does it make a difference who you escape with at the start?

[Krosta]

Also, does it make a difference who you escape with at the start?

Nope. The only difference is that one suggest you to join the imperials in the civil war while the other one tells you about the Stormcloak rebellion, activating the corresponding quests. But, in fact, you can choose to enroll in either side no matter what, and speaking with the random Stormcloak/Imperial soldiers you sometimes find walking around can activate the other joining quest in your journal. :smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

Nope. The only difference is that one suggest you to join the imperials in the civil war while the other one tells you about the Stormcloak rebellion, activating the corresponding quests. But, in fact, you can choose to enroll in either side no matter what, and speaking with the random Stormcloak/Imperial soldiers you sometimes find walking around can activate the other joining quest in your journal. :smallwink:

I went with the Imperial guy because A) I am an Orc, and as such not very much liked by the racist Nords but seen by Imperials as the trusted backbone of the legions. Plus, even though his commander wanted me dead, HE is clearly the most sympathetic guy at the start; he takes time to save a kid, while the Nord guy just runs off and hide in a tower.

[Calemyr]

From perusing the threads though, I see that magic is pretty much useless because a good sword seems to kill everything. Which ruins my idea of dual wielding fireballs and and combining them into a Hadoken at my leisure.

I won't lie to you, if you use destruction magic the way it's presented, it gets a bit weak. It's pretty darn awesome early on, but the damage doesn't rise as fast as the enemy HP. However, if you max out your enchanting skill, you can make four +25% fortify destruction items (head, chest, ring, amulet), reducing your cost to 0. With these on, Destruction goes from a mid-grade, resource-hogging, poor man's archery to becoming a lot of fun and free to use at will.

It gets even better with the Master level spells. The lightning one roots you to the ground, but allows you to unleash a constant barrage of heavily damaging electricity in any direction you look for as long as your magicka holds out (with those items, that won't be an issue). It's like having a 200 foot long plasma chainsaw at your command, and you can't tell me that's not cool. The fire one is also good, but not useful if you keep companions, as it's an ridiculously damaging area of effect with no consideration for friendly fire.


So, whats an easy way to actually get through the game? I've only managed to kill the first dragon on my first save file (after countless reloads because stupid me drew its attention so it turned me into original recipe style nord), and so far I've got pretty much all my perks in Destruction with one or 2 in healing and conjuration, but so far I've had more luck using Heal and a sword and just spamming the heal while the mages beat me up.

If you want "easy", the combination I know of is Sneaking, Archery, Smithing, Alchemy, and Enchanting. Archery is sickeningly powerful, especially if the bow is upgraded using a smithy skill augmented by fortify smithing potions and enchants. You can get to 50 archery right up front really easy by helping Feindal (the bosmer woodcutter in Riverwood) get his girl. He'll join as a follower if you ask him afterwards, and any money you spend training archery with him goes straight into his inventory, which you can then access to pay for more training. You only can train 5 points per level, but it's not hard to level up at that point.

The second "easy" way I could suggest is the bound weapon route. For three perks, you can get a cheap, weightless, soul-trapping, disarm-proof weapon with power that rivals a daedric weapon at level 4 (if you work on your conjuring early, Bretons have a lead there by starting with Summon Familiar). Smithing is more powerful in the long run, but there's a lot of style in fashioning blades out of raw energy to fight your foe. (And if you take Novice casting for Conjuration, the cost of Bound Sword goes under 50, meaning that anyone can cast it in both hands and dual wield without any points put into magicka or item enchantment.)


I'm actually debating going dual wield, heavy armor sword guy, or light armor single sword and bow guy.

Dual wield is the most offensive there, but doesn't have any blocking options. You're all offense, and you're only protection is killing your enemy sooner. Two-handed weapons are powerful and you can block with them, but they're slow and the blocking isn't as effective as with a shield. Sword and Shield is surprisingly fun: get the last perk for blocking and you can just overrun your enemies, tossing them like ragdolls with your shield. Sword and Magic is also a good call, and very versatile.

Archery requires two hands, so it doesn't matter which of the four setups you use for melee. Archery is quite powerful, but you have to aim a little low, as the auto-aim overcorrects a bit for gravity.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

If they fix resistances, give your dunmer companion +50% fire resist gear and you'll not worry about friendly fire ever again.

[Anderlith]

Shield & magic is really fun. Shield bash an enemy to stagger them & interrupt their attacks, then Lightning Bolt them across the room.

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh and btw... I am so not getting a dog this time. Dogmeat is a GENIUS compared to these wolfhounds.

"Oh look! A corridor! I'll park myself sideways across it right in front of my new master! Because that shows how much I love him!"

and

"Oh a pressure plate on the floor! I have to step on it! Two times! OOps my master got stabbed in the back by a spiked iron gate. twice. My bad."
(due to two pair of legs far appart...)

[Morph Bark]

What the Maven.

Skyrim randomly shut down on me today. TWICE. WHAT UP WITH THAT?


I used to post in Skyrim threads but then I took an arrow in the meme. :smallannoyed:

:smallconfused: These kinds of threads always have a title like that. What makes this one any different?

[The Succubus]

What the Maven.

Skyrim randomly shut down on me today. TWICE. WHAT UP WITH THAT?



:smallconfused: These kinds of threads always have a title like that. What makes this one any different?

It was meant in jest. :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Person_Man]

I've found that certain magic items are much mush more powerful then most Perks. Take a look at Volendrung (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Artifacts_(Skyrim)), the Ebony Blade (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Blade_(Skyrim)), Ebony Mail (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Mail_(Skyrim)), Spellbreaker (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spellbreaker_(Skyrim)), Azura's Star/Black Star (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Shrine_of_Azura_(Skyrim)), and/or Morokei (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Morokei_(Mask)). In a way, it makes me want to build my character based on the magic items available.

[Avilan the Grey]

I've found that certain magic items are much mush more powerful then most Perks. Take a look at Volendrung (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Artifacts_(Skyrim)), the Ebony Blade (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Blade_(Skyrim)), Ebony Mail (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Mail_(Skyrim)), Spellbreaker (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spellbreaker_(Skyrim)), Azura's Star/Black Star (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Shrine_of_Azura_(Skyrim)), and/or Morokei (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Morokei_(Mask)). In a way, it makes me want to build my character based on the magic items available.

You will notice I have printed out your tip sheet for my restart tonight.

Also, am I twisted for seeing most female orcs and go "Yeah, I'd definitely hit that." :smallbiggrin:

[Valaqil]

I've found that certain magic items are much mush more powerful then most Perks. Take a look at Volendrung (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Artifacts_(Skyrim)), the Ebony Blade (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Blade_(Skyrim)), Ebony Mail (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Mail_(Skyrim)), Spellbreaker (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spellbreaker_(Skyrim)), Azura's Star/Black Star (elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Shrine_of_Azura_(Skyrim)), and/or Morokei (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Morokei_(Mask)). In a way, it makes me want to build my character based on the magic items available.

Personally, I feel like Vokun (or whichever mask is more relevant to your preferred school) is a better choice than Morokei. I can't prove it because I'm unsure of how magicka regen is slowed during combat, but the -cost seems more useful in my anecdotal experience. I already have the -50% cost perks, so -15% from Archmage Robes and -20% from the mask makes my Conjuration/Illusion spells cost very little. I only cast a couple of spells from other schools anyway.
(Note: If the cost effects line up in the same way as armor enchants, that means a total cost of 15%. (100-(50+20+15) If it is the more logical method it is ~33% (100*.5*.8*.85))

[Yana]

What exactly makes Azura's Star more useful than the Black Star? It's not readily apparent to me.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The things that you can soul-trap in it you generally don't get in trouble for killing, and are things you generally need to kill anyway. The Black Star requires human souls, and unless you go bandit hunting, you're not going to find many volunteers. If you fill it with NPC souls, you'll not only risk a bounty on your head, but whatever services or quests that NPC provided. And some are essential, so if you strike the wrong person thinking to trap their soul, you're gonna be in for a world of hurt. Plus it's just a little easier on the conscience.

[Yana]

Thank you Zousha, I couldn't quite make out that distinction. So Azura's Star cannot trap human souls then?

In that case, I'll probably end up going with the Black Star, considering my characters almost always end up joining the Dark Brotherhood (which means there should be a plentiful supply of... resources for the Black Star to harvest). I tend to not put too much of myself into my TES avatars, so conscience usually doesn't come into play.

[pffh]

Humanoid souls are also more often then not of better quality then the soul from an equivalent animal.

[GungHo]

And, let's be honest, they taste better.

[Opperhapsen]

And if you're ever short on bandits then you hand out in way too boring places. :smallsmile:

[Calemyr]

Oh and btw... I am so not getting a dog this time. Dogmeat is a GENIUS compared to these wolfhounds.

"Oh look! A corridor! I'll park myself sideways across it right in front of my new master! Because that shows how much I love him!"

and

"Oh a pressure plate on the floor! I have to step on it! Two times! OOps my master got stabbed in the back by a spiked iron gate. twice. My bad."
(due to two pair of legs far appart...)

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the dog you used was Barbas? As nice as having an immortal Daedric demi-prince sounds, Big B is usually far more trouble than he's worth. Meeko isn't nearly as annoying, though I must admit to leaving him at the entrance when I suspect a dungeon to be trap-happy, as dogs and followers alike can get into way too much trouble, there.


And if you're ever short on bandits then you hand out in way too boring places. :smallsmile:

The Silent Moons Camp northwest of Whiterun seems to be home to a respawning group of bandits. At the very least, if you don't go into the lower entrance and kill ALL of them, they will respawn.

[The Glyphstone]

Has this been linked to yet? (http://failblog.org/2011/11/21/epic-fail-parenting-this-kid-better-be-a-bamf/)

[nhbdy]

Seeing as he took Assassin's Blade, he's probably using daggers. The prerequisite feats aren't doing him much good, but really there's not anything he can do about that. I think Armsman does affect daggers though, so points there are arguably put to good use. He's probably wearing the Dark Brotherhood gloves that double his sneak multiplier as well, so with Illusion he calms down enemies to get multiple 30x damage sneak attacks.

Anyway, here's what I think:
Illusion - Keep in mind that the bonuses to the Illusion types from your perks are added into the spell effect before dual casting takes effect. So a Master level calm effect with Animage would be (25+8)x2 and a Master level calm effect with Animage and Hypnotic Gaze would be (25+8+8)x2. If you really want to skimp you coul probably roll with just Kindred and Animage.

Conjuration - The Thrall spells (IE Master Conjuration) are pretty lame. If you just want zombies, as your perk selection would suggest, the Master level perk would just be a waste.Nevermind, I forgot Dead Thrall was a Master level spell.

Sneak - Your Sneak perks are fine, Shadow Warrior is cool but keep in mind that the confusion only lasts about a second.

Light Armor - Deft Movement could be taken out, you probably don't want to be hit in Light Armor anyway (especially since you don't have Smithing to boost your Armor Rating). It will arguably save your life on certain occasions but I wouldn't count on it.

ok, so you seem to advocate less spending on illusion, as with kindred mage and dual cast I can hit 50 with the dual cast, which makes one side of the tree fairly weak, now considering I like frenzy effects... a lot... does this still hold (I'm asking because I've seen frenzy spells have lower caps than their level-equivalent calm and fear spells)?

[Thanatos 51-50]

OOOooo, Perk Calculator.

Currently, my Redguard is looking at something like this (http://skyrimcalculator.com/#16795).

Thoughts?

[nhbdy]

OOOooo, Perk Calculator.

Currently, my Redguard is looking at something like this (http://skyrimcalculator.com/#16795).

Thoughts?

It looks a bit scattered, obviously you are a heavy dual wielding character with light armor, with smithing you should hit the armor cap with dragon scale armor if you decide to, your perks are scattered an awful lot in the thief constellations, I'd recommend losing a few of those skills (especially lockpicking and speech) and focus them on other areas, the backstab sounds like it works for what you are going for, so no real issues there, the enchanting is committed enough that you don't want to lose it, but not committed enough to do a lot of crazy stuff in it either, the first perk is a real big one to max out, and how you get to the last one is less important that getting there, though skillful and corpus are generally seen as more optimal than the damage ones, but good build though, looks like a solid ambusher/skirmisher

[DaedalusMkV]

What exactly makes Azura's Star more useful than the Black Star? It's not readily apparent to me.
Nothing. The Black Star is patently superior, as I'll get to in a moment.

The Black Star requires human souls.
This is the beautiful bit; it doesn't. The Black Star will take any sort of soul, human or animal. I've tested it. The quest giver and description lie to you; the Black Star is the superior choice, as long as you don't mind pissing off Azura and missing out on her priestess as a possible companion.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the dog you used was Barbas? As nice as having an immortal Daedric demi-prince sounds, Big B is usually far more trouble than he's worth. Meeko isn't nearly as annoying, though I must admit to leaving him at the entrance when I suspect a dungeon to be trap-happy, as dogs and followers alike can get into way too much trouble, there.

Nono this was Vigilance and Meeko.



Humanoid souls are also more often then not of better quality then the soul from an equivalent animal.

AFAIK, both Mammoths and Giants ALWAYS produce great souls.

[TamerBill]

This is the beautiful bit; it doesn't. The Black Star will take any sort of soul, human or animal. I've tested it. The quest giver and description lie to you; the Black Star is the superior choice, as long as you don't mind pissing off Azura and missing out on her priestess as a possible companion.

Which is, of course, a bug, so don't rely on it staying that way.


AFAIK, both Mammoths and Giants ALWAYS produce great souls.

Giants are Greater (second best) while Mammoths are Grand (best). Human/Black souls are always equal to Grand.

[ZeltArruin]

Which is, of course, a bug, so don't rely on it staying that way.

Why, black soul gems take any soul, why should the star be any different?

[nhbdy]

Why, black soul gems take any soul, why should the star be any different?

hmmm... let's see what the quest dialogue and the item description says...

[Bad Situation]

ok, so you seem to advocate less spending on illusion, as with kindred mage and dual cast I can hit 50 with the dual cast, which makes one side of the tree fairly weak, now considering I like frenzy effects... a lot... does this still hold (I'm asking because I've seen frenzy spells have lower caps than their level-equivalent calm and fear spells)?

The reason for that is because there is no Expert Frenzy spell. it goes from Novice>Adept>Master. The Master level spell is set to level 25 creatures.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to start over. Again. I ran into a bug that I think I sort of have myself to blame for.
When I got Meridia's Daedric Quest, it said her beacon was located in Driftshade Refuge. Unfortunately, Driftshade Refuge was also the main base of the Silver Hand that I was supposed to clear for the Companions. Since the dungeon was already cleared by me getting the beacon and pursuing Meridia's quest, the quest didn't trigger. So maybe this time things will work better. :smallannoyed:

[Morph Bark]

After all this time playing, I just find out I actually have never used the Wait option, because I had no clue such a thing existed and how it could be used! Anyone can explain this elusive thing?

[Bad Situation]

After all this time playing, I just find out I actually have never used the Wait option, because I had no clue such a thing existed and how it could be used! Anyone can explain this elusive thing?

Press t, and you wait for a a number of hours of your own choosing. Waiting even 1 hour fully replenishes Health/Magicka/Stamina.

[Avilan the Grey]

Created from stuff we've posted on the previous threads, here is the:

List of things I wish I knew before spending 30+ hours playing Skyrim and then restarting...

Reading through this, it strikes me that I am slightly confused by the Dragon mask and perhaps Unfathomable Debths points... "Do it Early" seems to be contradicted by the whole of the Internet saying "It's suicide for low level characters!". This is especially regarding Krosis' Mask... how the heck am I supposed to get my hands on that thing at early levels? Seems I need to be around lvl 20-25 before I have a chance to get it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I assume it's because enemies scale with your level, so if you do these things early, you'll face them at their weakest, as opposed to being at higher levels, when they become extremely challenging, if not impossible.

[Legoshrimp]

I assume it's because enemies scale with your level, so if you do these things early, you'll face them at their weakest, as opposed to being at higher levels, when they become extremely challenging, if not impossible.

Not sure but I think it was more that they are non scaling items, so they will give you a massive boost early, while the things to do later are items that scale with level so if you wait a long time to get them they will be much better.

Also any mod to re level leveled items yet?

[Valaqil]

Reading through this, it strikes me that I am slightly confused by the Dragon mask and perhaps Unfathomable Debths points... "Do it Early" seems to be contradicted by the whole of the Internet saying "It's suicide for low level characters!". This is especially regarding Krosis' Mask... how the heck am I supposed to get my hands on that thing at early levels? Seems I need to be around lvl 20-25 before I have a chance to get it.

I didn't get it much earlier than that, but I was late teens, very early 20s when I got Krosis. Method: There's a pillar just ahead of his sarcophagus. Go in circles around it. Wait until he shoots a fireball, then peek out and shoot an arrow. Repeat until dead. You can shoot around/over the obstruction there fairly easily and he doesn't come very close.

[LordShotGun]

Has this been linked to yet? (http://failblog.org/2011/11/21/epic-fail-parenting-this-kid-better-be-a-bamf/)


Hmm, that should be fine. I'v ran into a few girls named zelda before and once you say the usual "Hey you're from that one game right?" it just kinda ends.

Kinda like how people named their kids special and precious and things like that. Sure its funny once or twice but then you kinda get over it. Like the Wii. How many penis jokes did we get and now no one cracks a smile over Wii U.

[Avilan the Grey]

I didn't get it much earlier than that, but I was late teens, very early 20s when I got Krosis. Method: There's a pillar just ahead of his sarcophagus. Go in circles around it. Wait until he shoots a fireball, then peek out and shoot an arrow. Repeat until dead. You can shoot around/over the obstruction there fairly easily and he doesn't come very close.

Thank you.

I restarted this morning; let's see what happens. Same basic character, different skill set. Urzul the Orc girl thief-to-be-arcane-archer.

[factotum]

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to start over. Again. I ran into a bug that I think I sort of have myself to blame for.
When I got Meridia's Daedric Quest, it said her beacon was located in Driftshade Refuge. Unfortunately, Driftshade Refuge was also the main base of the Silver Hand that I was supposed to clear for the Companions. Since the dungeon was already cleared by me getting the beacon and pursuing Meridia's quest, the quest didn't trigger. So maybe this time things will work better. :smallannoyed:

If you're going to restart the game every time you run into a quest glitch, I foresee a lot of restarts in your future! I think I have three quests which I either can't finish or which I had to use the console to fix:


Gauldur's Amulet--I'd already cleared the cave east of Ivarstead (forget its name) and so the boss at the end didn't spawn and I didn't get his piece of the amulet. Even using console commands to spawn that piece in my inventory didn't fix it.
Return statue of Dibella to Lisbet--I killed Lisbet during the Markarth cannibal quest, so there's no-one to return this to!
Nightcaller Temple--I entered, but the Dunmer chap I went in with was nowhere to be seen. This is apparently a known problem if you go in while you have a companion, and the only fix is to use a console command to teleport him to your location!

[Toastkart]

If you're going to restart the game every time you run into a quest glitch, I foresee a lot of restarts in your future! I think I have three quests which I either can't finish or which I had to use the console to fix:

I agree, I've run into a number of quest related bugs, some minor and some major. There are a couple quests I can't turn in even though the quest giver is alive and well. The biggest I think was when the Jarl of Riften said that to be a thane I would have to buy property. I did and left the building to check out the new house (there was even a quest arrow) and when I came back, the dialogue option to ask her about becoming a thane was gone. If I would have realized that would have happened, I would have just reloaded, but unfortunately I spent nearly five hours of doing stuff in and around Riften before I came back, and when I read up on what the problem was, going back didn't seem worth it.

Also, under Saarthal at one of the pillar puzzles, the pillars wouldn't rotate and solving the puzzle was the only way forward, as going back was blocked. Luckily a reload fixed this one.

So, no thane title and no housecarl for Riften for me. Not a huge deal.

[sucatraps]

The console fixes almost all glitches.

[Morph Bark]

So I started a new character alongside my earlier one, though with this one I don't plan on using the carrying capacity cheat. Female orc, planning on going One-Handed dual-wielding, Light Armor, Smithing, Enchanting, Healing. Want to get the Black Star and Mace of Molag Bal as fast as possible.

Thinking of just switching to Heavy Armor though, especially if I could easily get it high enough to make Heavy Armor effectively weightless through Perks.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

The console fixes almost all glitches.

That's how I got to be thane of the rift. The quest got bugged for me because I bought a house before the quest was given by the jarl. One console command later an I am thane of the rift.

[Toastkart]

The console fixes almost all glitches.

Not when the console is the platform you're playing the game on.

[Person_Man]

Reading through this, it strikes me that I am slightly confused by the Dragon mask and perhaps Unfathomable Debths points... "Do it Early" seems to be contradicted by the whole of the Internet saying "It's suicide for low level characters!". This is especially regarding Krosis' Mask... how the heck am I supposed to get my hands on that thing at early levels? Seems I need to be around lvl 20-25 before I have a chance to get it.

There are some basic tactics that are useful for any boss fight.

1) Follow Valaqil's good advice - find cover of some sort, and use hit and run tactics against the enemy. (Attack, run behind pillar, attack, run around to the other side, repeat). In dungeons, you can often just run out of the room, and the boss won't follow you. Outside, you can often kite enemies (hit, run away, hit, run away) into other enemies. For example, dragons can often be kited into Stormcloak or Imperial or Giant or Bandit camps. With a few exceptions (such as trolls, and some casters who use Restoration) your healing rate is much faster then your enemy's healing rate.

2) Pay attention to who you are fighting, and shift your tactics appropriately. Vampires and Trolls are vulnerable to fire. Magic users often become useless when their mana runs out, and are thus vulnerable to electricity. Enemies that use Power Attack often are fairly easy to defeat once you get the Block Perk which slows down time when they Power Attack (allowing you to dodge the attack entirely and counter attack from the side or rear), and this Perk functions with a Shield or Two Handed weapons. Enemies that use a certain element (most commonly frost) are probably resistant to it.

3) Healing Potions. Buy them whenever you get a chance. Put them in your Favorites menu. Pause time by hitting the Favorites key and heal yourself as needed.

4) There are several staffs (which can be recharged with soul gems) which have a fairly high dps and a long range, including two Daedric artifacts and a quest reward from the Mage's Guild. (And you'll occasionally just find good ones as random loot).

5) There are several followers and one dog which are immortal if you recruit them but do not finish their quest. If an enemy is too hard, just run away and let your immortal friend kill them.

6) Once an enemy has spawned (ie, you can physically see them) it's level is set. (With some enemies their level is set as soon as you enter their dungeon/area). You can just run away, gain a few levels, and come back when you feel ready. You will be more powerful, but your enemy will be the same level.

7) Don't forget to use your Daily powers. (You can always Wait 24 hours after using them to recharge them). In particular, the Dunmer, Orc, Breton, and Argonian racial powers can be very potent in the right situation, as can the Serpent Stone and Beast Form.

[Valaqil]

There are some basic tactics that are useful for any boss fight.

1) Follow Valaqil's good advice - find cover of some sort, and use hit and run tactics against the enemy. (Attack, run behind pillar, attack, run around to the other side, repeat). In dungeons, you can often just run out of the room, and the boss won't follow you. Outside, you can often kite enemies (hit, run away, hit, run away) into other enemies. For example, dragons can often be kited into Stormcloak or Imperial or Giant or Bandit camps. With a few exceptions (such as trolls, and some casters who use Restoration) your healing rate is much faster then your enemy's healing rate.

7) Don't forget to use your Daily powers. (You can always Wait 24 hours after using them to recharge them). In particular, the Dunmer, Orc, Breton, and Argonian racial powers can be very potent in the right situation, as can the Serpent Stone and Beast Form.

All of it is very good advice. I'd also add:
1) Some of them _do_ chase you backwards. (Morokeiiiii! :smallfurious:) When they do, think about how to use the dungeon against them. I had a fight a couple of days ago that was a little rough until I lured the Draugr back towards a fire trap. I often use gate traps against the enemy. If they're willing to chase you, look for or create (Fire/Frost Rune) traps. Shoot as much as possible, then sprint the other direction. The environment is your friend, not theirs. You've already cleared everything up to that point (I hope) so you have plenty of room to maneuver and lure them.

And, similarly, don't fight more than you have to fight that moment. When you go to get Krosis? Shoot that dragon from as far back as possible, _then_ go forward and fight Krosis. It's possible to fight only one at a time, so do that.

7) I know most people don't play Altmer, but I don't want them left out: Nigh-infinite magicka is a Divine-send in boss battles.

[nhbdy]

All of it is very good advice. I'd also add:
1) Some of them _do_ chase you backwards. (Morokeiiiii! :smallfurious:) When they do, think about how to use the dungeon against them. I had a fight a couple of days ago that was a little rough until I lured the Draugr back towards a fire trap. I often use gate traps against the enemy. If they're willing to chase you, look for or create (Fire/Frost Rune) traps. Shoot as much as possible, then sprint the other direction. The environment is your friend, not theirs. You've already cleared everything up to that point (I hope) so you have plenty of room to maneuver and lure them.

for Morokei, just stand in the entrance (with stealth, as he is about as aware as a doornail, and unskilled character can pull this off) fire 1-2 shots of a ranged attack of your choice, he notices, drop stealth, close the door, go down the hall and stealth until he loses you again, rinse and repeat, you can do it without ever being hit.

[Person_Man]

7) I know most people don't play Altmer, but I don't want them left out: Nigh-infinite magicka is a Divine-send in boss battles.

Magicka is a waste of resources for most characters, since you can Enchant items to get casting cost (down to 0% if you want), can get +175% faster Magicka regeneration with a Dragon Mask and a Robe, quickly refill Magicka with common cheap potions, and absorb Magicka with the right Perks and/or weapons.

In my opinion, the only reason to play an Altmer is if you want to play a pure Mage that doesn't wear armor or use a weapon.

[nhbdy]

Magicka is a waste of resources for most characters, since you can Enchant items to get casting cost (down to 0% if you want), can get +175% faster Magicka regeneration with a Dragon Mask and a Robe, quickly refill Magicka with common cheap potions, and absorb Magicka with the right Perks and/or weapons.

In my opinion, the only reason to play an Altmer is if you want to play a pure Mage that doesn't wear armor or use a weapon.

this only applies to those that use cheesy tactics to cover their costs, and the regen and refilling tactics won't allow you to cast a spell you don't have the magicka to cast. The enchanting thing only applies to those that use it (while it is undeniably powerful, many don't like using it, and other dislike using the superpowers in the game)

[Valaqil]

for Morokei, just stand in the entrance (with stealth, as he is about as aware as a doornail, and unskilled character can pull this off) fire 1-2 shots of a ranged attack of your choice, he notices, drop stealth, close the door, go down the hall and stealth until he loses you again, rinse and repeat, you can do it without ever being hit.

Yeah, that's what everyone said. I tried that. He would go right up to the door, open it, and shoot at me. Sometimes he even chased me 1/2 up the corridor in front of the door. Not farther than that, but he would. It took several tries for even _that_ strategy to work. My Morokei seemed to be smarter than everyone else's.


Magicka is a waste of resources for most characters, since you can Enchant items to get casting cost (down to 0% if you want), can get +175% faster Magicka regeneration with a Dragon Mask and a Robe, quickly refill Magicka with common cheap potions, and absorb Magicka with the right Perks and/or weapons.

In my opinion, the only reason to play an Altmer is if you want to play a pure Mage that doesn't wear armor or use a weapon.

And, from a more efficient standpoint, that's correct. I didn't want to use Smithing/Enchanting, though. I especially didn't want to do the free-spell-cost trick since it feels a little cheesy to me. I just wanted to play a Mage in robes. Even with Archmage Robes and Morokei's mask, you can still find yourself low on mana if you're casting enough high-level spells without the relevant half-cost perks. You get the mana back fast enough, sure, but it's nice to just go all out and not wait on recharge.

[Muz]

2) Pay attention to who you are fighting, and shift your tactics appropriately. Vampires and Trolls are vulnerable to fire. Magic users often become useless when their mana runs out, and are thus vulnerable to electricity. *snip*

4) There are several staffs (which can be recharged with soul gems) which have a fairly high dps and a long range, including two Daedric artifacts and a quest reward from the Mage's Guild. (And you'll occasionally just find good ones as random loot).

Can anyone else confirm that enemy magic users DO run out of mana? I don't recall ever having encountered this, even though I generally do use dual-cast lightning bolts on them. On the other hand, I do recall some attacking me with daggers after they'd gotten into melee range, but I'd assumed that was just due to their being close rather than being out of mana. ...And now that I type that, I'm starting to think I've answered my own question. Still, anyone else care to comment?

And speaking of staves, I don't think I know how to use the Staff of Magnus. Either my aim is bad or I'm just not very observant, but I haven't noticed it doing much when I use it on people--especially for what lore claims is one of the most powerful staves in existence. :smallsmile:


7) I know most people don't play Altmer, but I don't want them left out: Nigh-infinite magicka is a Divine-send in boss battles.

I play Altmer! (I'M Spartacus!) :smallsmile: Now what is this nigh-infinite magicka of which you speak? (What obvious feature have I missed?) *sheepish smile*

[Valaqil]

And speaking of staves, I don't think I know how to use the Staff of Magnus. Either my aim is bad or I'm just not very observant, but I haven't noticed it doing much when I use it on people--especially for what lore claims is one of the most powerful staves in existence. :smallsmile:

I play Altmer! (I'M Spartacus!) :smallsmile: Now what is this nigh-infinite magicka of which you speak? (What obvious feature have I missed?) *sheepish smile*

Point at people, click. It's supposed to drain magicka, then health. It's decent, but I didn't find it that great. If you're taking enough hits, it's not doing enough damage to kill the other guy before you. In longer battles, it's better, actually.

And the nearly-infinite magicka is the Highborn ability. Go to the spell selection screen, choose Powers, and there it is. Map it to the Power/Shout button and you have insanely fast regenerating magicka 1/day for one minute. Magicka doesn't recharge while you're holding a spell, so charge, fire, watch magicka come right back. I can get as many as four-ish bars of magicka out of it if I'm casting quickly enough. (My magicka is... 400 right now? Or so?)

[Person_Man]

this only applies to those that use cheesy tactics to cover their costs, and the regen and refilling tactics won't allow you to cast a spell you don't have the magicka to cast. The enchanting thing only applies to those that use it (while it is undeniably powerful, many don't like using it, and other dislike using the superpowers in the game)

OK, so let's assume that you want to use Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion, Restoration, and Alteration. But not Enchanting, Smithing, Alchemy, One Handed, Two Handed, Archery, Block, Heavy Armor, or Light Armor.

You follow and complete the Mage's Guild quests early (you are a dedicated mage after all), and get the Archmage's Robes (+100% magicka regeneration, +50 magicka, 15% reduction on all spells cast) and the Morokei dragon mask (+100% regeneration). But you do take the Recovery Perk twice (Restoration Skill, total of +50% regeneration), and the appropriate Novice/Apprentice/Adept/Expert/Master Perks in the Skills you use most heavily, which reduce the casting costs of spells at their level by an additional 50%. Just by adventuring and using the mage Skills, the Radiant AI will give you other magic items which reduce the casting costs of specific magical Skills by 5 to 22%, and/or Fortify Magicka which increase your base Magicka by 10 to 50 points each. If you're lucky, you stumble across the Vokun mask (Conjuration, Illusion and Alterations spells cost 20% less to cast) - or the Atronach Stone (+50 Magicka, 50% absorb spells, Magicka regenerates 50% slower) - but let's assume that you don't.

Just using the above, you're likely to have a base Magicka of 200ish (base 100, +50 Archmage's Robes, +50ish from various Fortify Magicka items), and a -65%ish decrease in casting cost (-50% from Perks, -15% the Archemage's Robes). That alone allows you to cast most spells in the game. And if you're spamming any particular spells (like Destruction) then you can get the casting cost down to 0%ish just by using Perks + Archmage's Robes + random Fortify Destruction items. And given a Magicka regeneration rate of +150% to +250%, your Magicka can be replenished from 0 to full in 5-10ish seconds. And you have plenty of common Restore Magicka potions for boss fights, when you can't afford to wait 5-10ish seconds in between spells.

[Muz]

Ahhh- I keep forgetting to use that power. (And I thought it just gave you a single refill, since I don't use it much.) I thought you meant CONSTANT (i.e. more than once per day) nigh-infinite magicka. :smallbiggrin:

One suggestion for a mod: Non-fighting porters who just stand back and carry your extra stuff without doing any fighting (or getting ahead of you in doorways, or in the way of spellcasting). Sure, it's not optimal, but it'd be an interesting roleplaying addition.

[Thanatos 51-50]

So, I have a manmer mage as an Alt, and am running her though the College quests, I get to the end of Labarinthyian, and...

How, exactly am I supposed to kill this guy?

Level 16 or so - pure blaster.

[Muz]

So, I have a manmer mage as an Alt, and am running her though the College quests, I get to the end of Labarinthyian, and...

How, exactly am I supposed to kill this guy?

Level 16 or so - pure blaster.

You could do what I did: Try to kill him for about an hour on expert, getting oft-one or two-shotted by lightning, then give up and turn the difficulty down to the lowest slot cast my reality-altering spell "Lower Difficulty."

Yeah, I know. I suck. :smallwink:

[ryzouken]

It was a tough fight for me. His lightning about dropped me in a single hit, so I used copious healing potions.

As a caster: hump pillars while you magicka regen, pop out of cover and dual cast Destruction magic with the Impact perk, the stagger won't give you enough time to recast, but it will give you enough time to pop back into cover. Wear some lightning resist gear if you've got it.

Morokei is a jerk.

[kme]

Hello fellow playgrounders. I started this Let's Play some time ago and it occurred to me now that I could share it here. I'ts not your usual Let's Play as I decided to impose additional restrictions along with playing on master.

No voice over or anything fancy. Just gameplay videos, although I do some explaining for each video in it's description. Check it out if you want.

Link for the first part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQi6L3qCTLw

[Muz]

Nifty useful link:
Skyrim graphics tweak guide... (http://www.geforce.com/Optimize/Guides/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-tweak-guide)

:smallsmile:

[nhbdy]

OK, so let's assume that you want to use Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion, Restoration, and Alteration. But not Enchanting, Smithing, Alchemy, One Handed, Two Handed, Archery, Block, Heavy Armor, or Light Armor.

You follow and complete the Mage's Guild quests early (you are a dedicated mage after all), and get the Archmage's Robes (+100% magicka regeneration, +50 magicka, 15% reduction on all spells cast) and the Morokei dragon mask (+100% regeneration). But you do take the Recovery Perk twice (Restoration Skill, total of +50% regeneration), and the appropriate Novice/Apprentice/Adept/Expert/Master Perks in the Skills you use most heavily, which reduce the casting costs of spells at their level by an additional 50%. Just by adventuring and using the mage Skills, the Radiant AI will give you other magic items which reduce the casting costs of specific magical Skills by 5 to 22%, and/or Fortify Magicka which increase your base Magicka by 10 to 50 points each. If you're lucky, you stumble across the Vokun mask (Conjuration, Illusion and Alterations spells cost 20% less to cast) - or the Atronach Stone (+50 Magicka, 50% absorb spells, Magicka regenerates 50% slower) - but let's assume that you don't.

Just using the above, you're likely to have a base Magicka of 200ish (base 100, +50 Archmage's Robes, +50ish from various Fortify Magicka items), and a -65%ish decrease in casting cost (-50% from Perks, -15% the Archemage's Robes). That alone allows you to cast most spells in the game. And if you're spamming any particular spells (like Destruction) then you can get the casting cost down to 0%ish just by using Perks + Archmage's Robes + random Fortify Destruction items. And given a Magicka regeneration rate of +150% to +250%, your Magicka can be replenished from 0 to full in 5-10ish seconds. And you have plenty of common Restore Magicka potions for boss fights, when you can't afford to wait 5-10ish seconds in between spells.

ok, so I can concede that it is by and large technically useless, but I for one will still use it to feel "magey" so you're right, but I choose to be different.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Casters are super easy for Atronarch bretons. That's how I beat the mages guild quests. I'd hit my racial ability for 100% absorb magicka.

[Tekren]

Playing an High elf Mage, wearing light armor, going slowly up the enchant/armor/alchemy route, but just noticed something.

As I will eventually start using two handed weapons, i'm going up the heavy armor side of the tree. I'm wearing light armor, but Lydia is decked out in full Orcish, all upgraded and beautifully enchanted. She carries all of my empty petty and lesser soul gems, along with the Mace of Molag Bal. (never seems to run out of charges while she uses it)

I'm wearing unupgraded elven with no enchantments, and carry no weapon.

I'm starting to question whether I'm in charge of her, or the other way around.

[Deth Muncher]

BTW, in case no one saw, the BethBlog updated today saying that the PC patch 1.3 is out, and will be made available for consoles ASAP. Which means I can go back to playing! Yay!

[Anderlith]

Someone help please! I can't find Marathal (guy who starts the marriage quest) He doesn't seem to sleep at the temple & I can't find him anywhere. Does anyone know where he might be?

[Volthawk]

Someone help please! I can't find Marathal (guy who starts the marriage quest) He doesn't seem to sleep at the temple & I can't find him anywhere. Does anyone know where he might be?

Tried the tavern?

[Jimorian]

Tried the tavern?

Pfft, a quest starting in a tavern? Ridiculous!

[Thanatos 51-50]

Someone help please! I can't find Marathal (guy who starts the marriage quest) He doesn't seem to sleep at the temple & I can't find him anywhere. Does anyone know where he might be?

It might help when you realize his name is Maramal

[Gaelbert]

So when I make my next character, I'm hoping to do a mage. I'm thinking either Breton or Altmeri, but beyond that I really don't know. I've heard folks in here say that destruction doesn't scale and I've heard people say conjuration doesn't scale, so is there a way to make a good mage? What perks, what schools, what type of armour (light or clothing), that sort of thing.
And how does combat work with a mage? I'm not so used to combat, as I typically hide and sneak attack with double daggers.

[nhbdy]

So when I make my next character, I'm hoping to do a mage. I'm thinking either Breton or Altmeri, but beyond that I really don't know. I've heard folks in here say that destruction doesn't scale and I've heard people say conjuration doesn't scale, so is there a way to make a good mage? What perks, what schools, what type of armour (light or clothing), that sort of thing.
And how does combat work with a mage? I'm not so used to combat, as I typically hide and sneak attack with double daggers.

Conjuration has given me no trouble, and from what I hear, two dremora lords wrecks even higher leveled stuff. Also from what I've played and read it is arguably the most powerful. Destruction doesn't scale and can be quite mana hungry, but can also be used and is plenty of fun, with enchanting you can even get it to 0% cost (though it will never do as much as optimized melee/archery in damage)! As far as armor, it is personal preference, if you do go light, you'll want to get enchanting up quickly, so you can put caster-friendly enchants on it, if you go cloth, you'll find a lot of usable ones for most of the early game. Other schools of magic to note: illusion is very all or nothing, it requires heavy perk investment and can monopolize your build for a while, but the payoff is good, as you can crowd control almost any enemy with fear/calm/frenzy effects and you'd have a panic button (invisibility). Alteration is your defense without armor, the perks are pretty sweet higher up, mage armor helps if you like robes, but is ultimately not needed at endgame (there's a spell that gives you a flat 80% resistance), it also has paralyze, so it is useful. Restoration is great against other mages and dragons, for one reason... WARDS!!! they can nullify spells and breath done correctly, but they too can be a bit mana hungry, but with maxxed enchanting you can get two schools to 0% cost...

the rest is fairly self explanatory, and I didn't cover everything, just what I felt was easier to miss, hope you enjoy your mage!

[Deth Muncher]

So when I make my next character, I'm hoping to do a mage. I'm thinking either Breton or Altmeri, but beyond that I really don't know. I've heard folks in here say that destruction doesn't scale and I've heard people say conjuration doesn't scale, so is there a way to make a good mage? What perks, what schools, what type of armour (light or clothing), that sort of thing.
And how does combat work with a mage? I'm not so used to combat, as I typically hide and sneak attack with double daggers.

I'm a Breton Mage. It works well. Refer to Person_Man's posts in this thread about how to tweak your mage skills how you want. Also keep in mind that you can grind your destruction in the beginning before you leave the tunnel on whichever guy you try escaping with. I didn't, but if you want to start the game with an advantage I'd start off by training your Destruction, Sneak and Arching. That way, you can snipe things before they know you're there, and if they're big enough that they won't die to lots of Sneak damage, then you start going all Emperor Palpetine on them.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I was wondering what to do with my latest character. As he's just starting out, he's got a lot of leeway at the moment, but I'm not certain of efficacy.

He's a High Elf, but instead of going all-out mage, he's a warrior. It's basically the paladin I was playing earlier but with a different race. The skills I want to focus on are:

One-Handed (to wield Dawnbreaker)
Block (seemingly the best choice to use with One-Handed)
Heavy Armor (to wear the Ebony Mail)
Restoration (to better simulate a paladin's powers)

As well as the following "basic" skills.

Smithing (to improve my armor and weapons)
Enchanting (again, to improve my armor and weapons).

I'm also wondering about some of the items out there. I know Spellbreaker is the best shield in the game, but if my suspicions are correct, the shield curves outwards, so it looks like you're carrying around a sattelite dish, which I frankly find ridiculous. I know that there are other shields out there, but not how well they'd fit in my whole ensemble. The Shield of Ysgramor looks attractive, but the coloration may be better suited to Steel Plate than Ebony. Same with the Masque of Clavicus Vile. I also understand you get a unique Shield of Solitude by doing a quest for Jarl Elisif, but I can't seem to find pictures of it. I'm an incorrigable slave to fashion in games like these. Combat efficacy is secondary to lookin' cool.

Also, what jewelry should I consider looking into. The Amulet of Articulation from the Thieves Guild is something I've been drooling over since I got it in my last game, since it allows you to succeed in nearly all Persuade checks, but I don't know how many Persuade checks I'll have to MAKE in the game, so if it's not many, this item may not be worth it. The Gauldur Amulet is cool, and it's got a relatively useful enchantment, if a bit mundane. I'm torn between wearing Hircine's Ring or the Band of Matrimony, namely for sentimental reasons.
Am I being ridiculous for asking questions like these?

[Calemyr]

I was wondering what to do with my latest character. As he's just starting out, he's got a lot of leeway at the moment, but I'm not certain of efficacy.

He's a High Elf, but instead of going all-out mage, he's a warrior. It's basically the paladin I was playing earlier but with a different race. The skills I want to focus on are:

One-Handed (to wield Dawnbreaker)
Block (seemingly the best choice to use with One-Handed)
Heavy Armor (to wear the Ebony Mail)
Restoration (to better simulate a paladin's powers)

As well as the following "basic" skills.

Smithing (to improve my armor and weapons)
Enchanting (again, to improve my armor and weapons).

I'm also wondering about some of the items out there. I know Spellbreaker is the best shield in the game, but if my suspicions are correct, the shield curves outwards, so it looks like you're carrying around a sattelite dish, which I frankly find ridiculous. I know that there are other shields out there, but not how well they'd fit in my whole ensemble. The Shield of Ysgramor looks attractive, but the coloration may be better suited to Steel Plate than Ebony. Same with the Masque of Clavicus Vile. I also understand you get a unique Shield of Solitude by doing a quest for Jarl Elisif, but I can't seem to find pictures of it. I'm an incorrigable slave to fashion in games like these. Combat efficacy is secondary to lookin' cool.

Also, what jewelry should I consider looking into. The Amulet of Articulation from the Thieves Guild is something I've been drooling over since I got it in my last game, since it allows you to succeed in nearly all Persuade checks, but I don't know how many Persuade checks I'll have to MAKE in the game, so if it's not many, this item may not be worth it. The Gauldur Amulet is cool, and it's got a relatively useful enchantment, if a bit mundane. I'm torn between wearing Hircine's Ring or the Band of Matrimony, namely for sentimental reasons.
Am I being ridiculous for asking questions like these?


First off, you know what you have to do to get the Ebony Mail, yes? You're still tempted to consider yourself a paladin?

With max enchantment (and especially with max alchemy on top of it), there is very, very, VERY little that you can find that can rival what you can build. When I play married characters, I craft my own wedding rings that actually have some muscle to them.

Amulet of Articulation is good, but most of the time you might as well just use the Amulet of Dibella - +10 to speech and as common as any of the amulets of the divines. If it really bugs you, there's an infinite persuade bug on an elf in Riften, you can max out Persuade easily that way.

Spellbreaker is not only the best shield in the game, it's about the only one that has a power you can't replicate, combining a free lesser ward spell with the muscle of a powerful shield, including the block perks. It'd look better with a dwemer suit, though. If you want great power and good looks, just make your own shield. If you want a really nasty anti-magic shield, get the Shield of Solitude and disenchant it. It's a +10 magic resist rather than the standard +8, and the two are treated as distinct so you can have both of them on anything that allows magic resistance. You can get 85% (the cap) very easily this way, without even having to do Agent of Mara, have the Lord Stone, or be a Breton.

Shield of Solitude itself is just a standard Solitude guard shield. Same model, same texture.

And if you're a slave to fashion, one thing to consider is that in the end game (assuming you max all three craft skills), all styles of armor end up pretty much equal, only falling into two groups: those effected by smithy perks and those that are not. You can wear Steel armor and have as much effectiveness as Daedric, without the weight, expense, or perk requirements.

[nhbdy]

First off, you know what you have to do to get the Ebony Mail, yes? You're still tempted to consider yourself a paladin?

With max enchantment (and especially with max alchemy on top of it), there is very, very, VERY little that you can find that can rival what you can build. When I play married characters, I craft my own wedding rings that actually have some muscle to them.

Amulet of Articulation is good, but most of the time you might as well just use the Amulet of Dibella - +10 to speech and as common as any of the amulets of the divines. If it really bugs you, there's an infinite persuade bug on an elf in Riften, you can max out Persuade easily that way.

Spellbreaker is not only the best shield in the game, it's about the only one that has a power you can't replicate, combining a free lesser ward spell with the muscle of a powerful shield, including the block perks. It'd look better with a dwemer suit, though. If you want great power and good looks, just make your own shield. If you want a really nasty anti-magic shield, get the Shield of Solitude and disenchant it. It's a +10 magic resist rather than the standard +8, and the two are treated as distinct so you can have both of them on anything that allows magic resistance. You can get 85% (the cap) very easily this way, without even having to do Agent of Mara, have the Lord Stone, or be a Breton.

Shield of Solitude itself is just a standard Solitude guard shield. Same model, same texture.

And if you're a slave to fashion, one thing to consider is that in the end game (assuming you max all three craft skills), all styles of armor end up pretty much equal, only falling into two groups: those effected by smithy perks and those that are not. You can wear Steel armor and have as much effectiveness as Daedric, without the weight, expense, or perk requirements.


so they capped magic resistance? at 85%?!?!? :smallfrown:

[sucatraps]

Just like physical resist. Elemental resist, however, is uncapped, which is makes fighting Dragons hilariously easy.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

First off, you know what you have to do to get the Ebony Mail, yes? You're still tempted to consider yourself a paladin?
You know what? You're right, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for doin' that. But that opens up the question of just what armor to wear. Elven is too cliche. Dragonscale and Bone are too organic-looking. Daedric is too evil-looking. Steel Plate? Glass?

With max enchantment (and especially with max alchemy on top of it), there is very, very, VERY little that you can find that can rival what you can build. When I play married characters, I craft my own wedding rings that actually have some muscle to them.
In that case, what SHOULD I make? I'll be honest, I've never been certain of just what enchantments are the most beneficial, so I just wear whatever I find. Skyrim's really the first Elder Scrolls game where I've made dedicated crafting efforts, but up until now I've only done Smithing to get better armor, mainly due to monetary issues. Enchanting seems very daunting, needing to buy soul gems, trap souls, come back, etc.

Amulet of Articulation is good, but most of the time you might as well just use the Amulet of Dibella - +10 to speech and as common as any of the amulets of the divines. If it really bugs you, there's an infinite persuade bug on an elf in Riften, you can max out Persuade easily that way.
If I exploit that bug, then what amulet would you suggest. Ignoring everything I've said about Persuasion, what would you say is the best amulet?

Spellbreaker is not only the best shield in the game, it's about the only one that has a power you can't replicate, combining a free lesser ward spell with the muscle of a powerful shield, including the block perks. It'd look better with a dwemer suit, though. If you want great power and good looks, just make your own shield. If you want a really nasty anti-magic shield, get the Shield of Solitude and disenchant it. It's a +10 magic resist rather than the standard +8, and the two are treated as distinct so you can have both of them on anything that allows magic resistance. You can get 85% (the cap) very easily this way, without even having to do Agent of Mara, have the Lord Stone, or be a Breton.
I see. What's a good-looking shield, then? None of the shields I've seen have really jumped out at me as knightly-looking.

Shield of Solitude itself is just a standard Solitude guard shield. Same model, same texture.
That'd go with the Wolf Armor maybe...

And if you're a slave to fashion, one thing to consider is that in the end game (assuming you max all three craft skills), all styles of armor end up pretty much equal, only falling into two groups: those effected by smithy perks and those that are not. You can wear Steel armor and have as much effectiveness as Daedric, without the weight, expense, or perk requirements.
That's reassuring, but it brings me back to the question of just WHAT armor to wear. None of them stand out as being very "knightly." There's "barbarian" (Iron, Steel, Orcish, Wolf, Forsworn, etc.), "Roman" (Imperial), and "just plain weird" (everything else).

[sucatraps]

Does anyone know of a list of all the unique items in the game? I am considering tracking them all down.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Does anyone know of a list of all the unique items in the game? I am considering tracking them all down.
Unique items are kind of an odd thing in Skyrim, in that there are three types: Artifacts, which have a unique appearance and/or powers and generally can't be disenchanted, Leveled Items, which are generally rewards for certain sidequests and are more powerful depending on your level, and Unique Items, which are fixed in terms of stats, but generally don't have a unique appearance like Artifacts. Here are lists of all of them:

Artifacts (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Artifacts)

Leveled Items (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveled_Items)

Unique Items (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unique_Items)

[sucatraps]

That third one was the one I was missing. Also, that will take a while.

[Calemyr]

You know what? You're right, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for doin' that. But that opens up the question of just what armor to wear. Elven is too cliche. Dragonscale and Bone are too organic-looking. Daedric is too evil-looking. Steel Plate? Glass?

Depends on what you're looking for.
* Ebony Armor has a "black knight" feel to it, but black knights weren't necessarily evil, they just didn't have a lord they were beholden to - either because they abandoned their liege or because they were beholden to their own ideals above all others. As I understand it, the black lacquer they used on their armor made it easier to maintain (less rust, more visible damage), since they didn't have a lord's resources to keep the armor in fighting shape. An altmer paladin would make sense as a black knight - a conscientious objector to the facist policies of the Thalmor.

* Orcish Armor has a "samurai" feel to it, and is probably the most practical balance of power and weight to be found in heavy armor. It's not all that colorful and rather looks like someone who wants to get the job done rather than ride in parades.

* Steel Armor is classic Skyrim. It's simple, it's decorated, it's effective, it's the perfect fusion of quiet style and protection. It also only needs the first perk on the Smithing tree to get over 600 Armor, which is all you need to hit the 85% damage resist cap.

* Dragonscale Armor, though I know you said you didn't like it, actually looks pretty impressive in my book. It also acts as a rather subtle boast to anyone who sees you: this armor is made of dragons you personally killed. The fact that you can get the best light armor AND the best weapons on the Heavy Armor smithing track is a nice factor.


In that case, what SHOULD I make? I'll be honest, I've never been certain of just what enchantments are the most beneficial, so I just wear whatever I find. Skyrim's really the first Elder Scrolls game where I've made dedicated crafting efforts, but up until now I've only done Smithing to get better armor, mainly due to monetary issues. Enchanting seems very daunting, needing to buy soul gems, trap souls, come back, etc.

I usually have multiple sets to do different things.

* I have my "Artisan" clothes, that have the best smithing (armor, gloves, amulet, ring) and alchemy (helmet, gloves, amulet, ring) I can eke out. The boots usually have carry capacity on them, for convenience's sake.

* A pendant with fortify haggle and the thieve's guild hood are very nice to keep around. It can earn you up to a 44% discount at stores, which helps a lot.

* My main suit generally has these effects:
* Helm: Fortify Archery + Fortify Destruction
* Armor: Regenerate Magicka + Fortify Destruction
* Boots: Fortify X-Handed Weapons + Fortify Carry Weight
* Gloves: Fortify Archery + Fortify X-Handed Weapons
Then I have several amulet/ring pairs for various situations:
* Fortify Archery + Fortify X-Handed Weapons (Upward of a 200% bonus to damage combined with the armor)
* Fortify Destruction + Regenerate Magicka (Free destruction magic + very quick recovery time for any other kind of magic)
* Fire Resist + Frost Resist (Up to complete immunity to fire and ice, rendering any dragon pretty much useless at a distance, and most Draugr magic-less.)


If I exploit that bug, then what amulet would you suggest. Ignoring everything I've said about Persuasion, what would you say is the best amulet?

Amulets and Rings are beautiful things: they have a lot of available enchants, are easy to mass produce, and weigh around half a... whatever weight measurement they're using here. Don't stick to one set of jewelry, use them for your incidental enchantments, the ones you want available on the fly. The way I used them, the suit covered half of about any of the applications I'd use it for, then I had different sets of rings and amulets I could switch around to finish any application: physical offense, magical offense, and draconic defense. You could also use both Magic Resist enchants on both a ring and a necklace to obtain insane resists without requiring any specific armor or powers/active effects.

A note should be added for the Amulet of Talos, which reduces Shout cooldowns by 20%. If you make heavy use of Shouts, this is a handy one to keep around.


I see. What's a good-looking shield, then? None of the shields I've seen have really jumped out at me as knightly-looking.

Ebony and Orcish both have pretty cool looking shields that would fit their stylistic idiom. If you don't like any shields, you can also go with two-handed weapons, which are capable of blocking and can take advantage of all the bash perks, the quick reflexes perk, and the basic 5-part perk in the blocking tree. You get a lot of offense, some functional defense, and get to look good to boot.

An alternative is to use the off hand for various magics. Wards would be a good defense, while destruction spells would make good offense at various ranges beyond melee.


That'd go with the Wolf Armor maybe...

Never really looked at the wolf armor. Don't have much constructive to say about it.


That's reassuring, but it brings me back to the question of just WHAT armor to wear. None of them stand out as being very "knightly." There's "barbarian" (Iron, Steel, Orcish, Wolf, Forsworn, etc.), "Roman" (Imperial), and "just plain weird" (everything else).

Ebony is the closest you'll come to knightly, and it's very much that. Blades armor looks nice, but is pretty weak and doesn't upgrade well. As I've already said, however, steel is for the true nordic champion and orcish is works very well for the samurai/ronin style hero.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Looks like I'll go with Ebony Armor and Dawnbreaker, then. Are the archery enchantments essential? I like to get in an enemy's face and strike them down. Bows really will only be used for dragons until I get Dragonrend.

Also...and this is gonna seem like an odd question, but which of the Stones/Birthright would fit Tiber Septim best? Better yet, are there any books that state when he was born so I could pinpoint the month? At the core of my concept, he comes to eventually believe that he's Talos reborn as an Altmer, much to the consternation of the Thalmor.

[Calemyr]

Looks like I'll go with Ebony Armor and Dawnbreaker, then. Are the archery enchantments essential? I like to get in an enemy's face and strike them down. Bows really will only be used for dragons until I get Dragonrend.

Also...and this is gonna seem like an odd question, but which of the Stones/Birthright would fit Tiber Septim best? Better yet, are there any books that state when he was born so I could pinpoint the month? At the core of my concept, he comes to eventually believe that he's Talos reborn as an Altmer, much to the consternation of the Thalmor.

No, the archery is not essential. I just said what I did. The key thing is to put on fortifications you use. You could swap Fortify Block for Fortify Archery on the gloves, amulet, and ring if you like, though that might be overkill. You could swap archery on the helmet for Waterbreathing (which is very handy). You could swap destruction for restoration or any other school of magic.

I'd probably say Warrior and then either Lord or Steed depending on if you get the Conditioning perk. Heavy armor without the slowdown is a beautiful thing.

One last detail, however: Dawnbreaker is a cool weapon, but it is by NO means the best. It doesn't have a smith perk, and while the enchantment is awesome against undead, it's pretty weak otherwise. If it were me, I'd have another weapon handy for killing the living. The Blades sword in Delphine's secret room is an awesome weapon: light, stylish, unenchanted, and upgraded by the Steel smith perk. Dragonbane at Anduin's Wall is a good mate to that sword, though it's only really great against dragons - Blades Sword + Dragonbane + Orcish Armor = Classic Samurai.

The enchant for the Blades Sword depends on your perks. Fiery Soul Trap is always a good call. If you have either the elemental perks in the Enchanting tree or some of the augment element perks in the destruction tree, use the most favorable element. Otherwise Absorb Health is a very effective standby.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, as I said...

My new Orc girl, Urzul, is on her way... She just made her first iron dagger! (Sniff! all these proud moments!).

I went the dark route (look wise) when creating her, darkest skin tone, black hair, black war paint, black lipstick. I decided to go with the bright blue eyes again though; it's something with the idea of a blue-eyed orc girl that gets to me :smallbiggrin:. Besides they will match the spell effect for the bound weapons, anyway. Right now it makes her eyes VERY visible too, in that face.

Anyway... As soon as I am done making a Fine Leather Armor for myself I will start doing all the other quests and buy a spellbook or two in town before heading to the Bleak Falls Barrow.

Also, this is my planned build:

Thief / Arcane Archer:

Use Bound Sword for most melee fights so I get to 40 and can buy the Bound Bow as soon as possible.

However the bound weapons will be the only things she takes from that school of magic, she will also dabble in Illusion and spend more points there.

She will also learn Smithing, one-handed, archery and stealth and probably enchantment.

My idea for Smithing would be to only up the actual skill level and then only spend two perks, so she can upgrade magical things she has found. She has no need of actually making her own things; she will be wearing the Nightingale Armor a lot anyway.

I know this stretches her a bit thin but only putting perks in 3-4 skills seems to severely limit the character.

How many perks in enchantment is necessary to make really good gear?

[Calemyr]

How many perks in enchantment is necessary to make really good gear?

In this situation, 8. 5 in the basic perk, Insightful Enchanter, Corprus Enchanter, and Added Effect. That said, if you're intent on Nightingale armor and Bound weapons, your really only going to get amulets and rings out of this deal. They'll be very nice jewelry, but possibly not worth the time and perks to attain them.

[Avilan the Grey]

In this situation, 8. 5 in the basic perk, Insightful Enchanter, Corprus Enchanter, and Added Effect. That said, if you're intent on Nightingale armor and Bound weapons, your really only going to get amulets and rings out of this deal. They'll be very nice jewelry, but possibly not worth the time and perks to attain them.

Good point... We'll see how it plays out.

[Calemyr]

Good point... We'll see how it plays out.

You may end up wanting to do it, anyway: Nightingale armor is probably the most stylish light armor in the game, but it has pitiful enchantments and no smith perk, which means you'll be able to craft far better leather armor than anything the Nightingales might have.

But that's just my bias talking - I love customizing gear, and would favor custom gear even when artifacts are more powerful. The fact that the artifacts are actually weaker than custom gear in this game makes crafting all the more preferred in my book.

[Avilan the Grey]

You may end up wanting to do it, anyway: Nightingale armor is probably the most stylish light armor in the game, but it has pitiful enchantments and no smith perk, which means you'll be able to craft far better leather armor than anything the Nightingales might have.

But that's just my bias talking - I love customizing gear, and would favor custom gear even when artifacts are more powerful. The fact that the artifacts are actually weaker than custom gear in this game makes crafting all the more preferred in my book.

My biggest problem, apart from the risk of "wasting" perks, is that I really, REALLY, loathe grinding of any kind. I was only up to 40 something in Smithing after passing lvl 25 in my last character, for that very reason, despite prioritizing the skill (planning to take all perks on the left side and the middle one) and my alchemy skill was based on "randombly combine things and see what happens".

Sneak and lockpick, for a thief, goes automatically, and so does the other skills you actually use in daily life. I always sneak when I am in the wild, both because I am weaker than a warrior but also because quite simply the eye works as a radar. If it suddenly starts opening, something is coming.

[factotum]

I didn't, but if you want to start the game with an advantage I'd start off by training your Destruction, Sneak and Arching. That way, you can snipe things before they know you're there

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point of being a pure mage, if you're getting most of your kills from sneak arrow attacks? I mean, the character I'm playing does those, but that's because I built her as a sneaky sniper to start with (it's been one of my favourite character types since being very successful in the original Fallout with one); if I was going pure mage I wouldn't use archery, because I think it would become a bit of a crutch later on.

[Deth Muncher]

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point of being a pure mage, if you're getting most of your kills from sneak arrow attacks? I mean, the character I'm playing does those, but that's because I built her as a sneaky sniper to start with (it's been one of my favourite character types since being very successful in the original Fallout with one); if I was going pure mage I wouldn't use archery, because I think it would become a bit of a crutch later on.

Oh. I mean...yes? But I've pretty well used bows to aggro things. If you want to go PURE pure mage, though, you need some magic with range so you can do the same thing as arrows - which means you need the second level of Destruction. Doable, but you have to train it up and you don't have that option for a little bit (until you get to the first major city). Hence why I ended up using bows on my pure mage, which...yeah, I guess he's a little diluted. My whole point with the bows, though, is that you need something to compensate for when you inevitably run out of mana (before you've enchanted your armor to make your casting cost 0, of course).

[Nargan]

So, to me, assassin is officially the best way to play skyrim, and here is my story of how I learned that (warning, obvious statements incoming):

One of my flatmates plays skyrim a LOT, and he loves mages, so first off he made a dark elf with mage-y characteristics (basically everything in magic perks), but the save got corrupted. At he time, I had a thief archer, and he thought that was cool, so his new character was a thief, but he went with daggers instead.

Dear lord, I have never seen anything so ridiculous. When he said "30x sneak attack damage" I thought he was badly translating (happens). Not only that, but he has illusion and sneak skilled to 100, so he can 1 hit kill something, go invis, 1 hit kill the next thing, etc etc. I saw him 1 hit a giant for god's sake. I saw him kill the whole of Whiterun just because he could, it was ridiculous, and pretty cool.

Cool story, bro. I know, thanks amigo.

[factotum]

I have to say, I was a bit "surely that's a typo?" when I saw the 30x sneak attack damage perk for daggers. I suppose it doesn't help much at mid-levels when your Sneak isn't high enough to escape and you DIDN'T successfully one-hit that Draugr Dreadlord, though...

[Thanatos 51-50]

I have to say, I was a bit "surely that's a typo?" when I saw the 30x sneak attack damage perk for daggers. I suppose it doesn't help much at mid-levels when your Sneak isn't high enough to escape and you DIDN'T successfully one-hit that Draugr Dreadlord, though...

There's a response to that.
Don't use daggers until you get the RIDICULOUS DAMAGE WITH THEM! Perk.

[Rion]

Archpaladin Zousha: If you're playing on the pc there's a mod that retextures the ebony armour to be gold:
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1705

Also, anyone know how to unpack the files? I've started a light armour playthrough because I really like how glass armour look without the helmet (expecially with this (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2060) retexture), but I find it to offer far to little protection; so I want to make ebony armour use the model of glass armour.

Another question, are there any mods, glitches or other ways to either have both a twohanded sword and a restoration spell, or to quickly change between them? A onehanded sword in the right hand and a fast healing in the left doesn't deal that much damage, but I'd rather have fast healing than a twohanded sword if it's impossible to have both.

EDIT: One more question, do anyone know of a rexture of the glass swords to have golden hilts and steel-ish blades? I'm currently using a custom cut-n-paste job of one with golden swords and one with grey blades, but I would like one with better quality than what I can make on my own.

[Avilan the Grey]

EDIT: One more question, do anyone know of a rexture of the glass swords to have golden hilts and steel-ish blades? I'm currently using a custom cut-n-paste job of one with golden swords and one with grey blades, but I would like one with better quality than what I can make on my own.

I thought, according to the description on the nexus, that the one mod that recolors the swords as well? Or was that a different mod than the one you refer to?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Orcs can do 60x sneak attack with daggers. 15x from perks, double that with double damage gloves and then another double from racial power.:smallbiggrin:

[sucatraps]

120x dagger damage if you use two daggers. Kinda silly. Multiplies the Power Attack damage, to boot!

[Anderlith]

I was wondering what to do with my latest character. As he's just starting out, he's got a lot of leeway at the moment, but I'm not certain of efficacy.

He's a High Elf, but instead of going all-out mage, he's a warrior. It's basically the paladin I was playing earlier but with a different race. The skills I want to focus on are:

One-Handed (to wield Dawnbreaker)
Block (seemingly the best choice to use with One-Handed)
Heavy Armor (to wear the Ebony Mail)
Restoration (to better simulate a paladin's powers)

As well as the following "basic" skills.

Smithing (to improve my armor and weapons)
Enchanting (again, to improve my armor and weapons).

I'm also wondering about some of the items out there. I know Spellbreaker is the best shield in the game, but if my suspicions are correct, the shield curves outwards, so it looks like you're carrying around a sattelite dish, which I frankly find ridiculous. I know that there are other shields out there, but not how well they'd fit in my whole ensemble. The Shield of Ysgramor looks attractive, but the coloration may be better suited to Steel Plate than Ebony. Same with the Masque of Clavicus Vile. I also understand you get a unique Shield of Solitude by doing a quest for Jarl Elisif, but I can't seem to find pictures of it. I'm an incorrigable slave to fashion in games like these. Combat efficacy is secondary to lookin' cool.

Also, what jewelry should I consider looking into. The Amulet of Articulation from the Thieves Guild is something I've been drooling over since I got it in my last game, since it allows you to succeed in nearly all Persuade checks, but I don't know how many Persuade checks I'll have to MAKE in the game, so if it's not many, this item may not be worth it. The Gauldur Amulet is cool, and it's got a relatively useful enchantment, if a bit mundane. I'm torn between wearing Hircine's Ring or the Band of Matrimony, namely for sentimental reasons.
Am I being ridiculous for asking questions like these?

Have you seen Steel Plate? It's a kind of a steel version of ebony, though it is a bit barbaric, but hey maybe your paladin has gone native.

[Person_Man]

So I just discovered the Atronach Forge (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Atronach_Forge), which apparently lets you craft enchanted Daedric armor and weapons and a bunch of Conjuration related stuff without investing any Perks in Smithing or Enchantment. Has anyone used this, and if so, is it worth while?

[Tome]

So I just discovered the Atronach Forge (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Atronach_Forge), which apparently lets you craft enchanted Daedric armor and weapons and a bunch of Conjuration related stuff without investing any Perks in Smithing or Enchantment. Has anyone used this, and if so, is it worth while?

It is a worthwhile, if slightly more expensive, way of crafting Daedric equipment without investing anything in Smithing though. Also, I think it might be the only way to craft Daedric arrows. The downside is that you need a Sigil Stone to craft Daedric equipment using it, which requires you do the Master Conjuration quest.

Apart from that, it's good for producing Flame/Frost/Void Salts and saving some money on the Summon Atronarch spells.

Not really something to shoot for necessarily, but it's a nice little bonus for folks with 100 Conjuration.

[Vendle]

I played through as a Breton using conjuration and enchanting followed by destruction. Master spells for conjuration summon unlimited-duration atronachs or undead, which I found were fragile but did fair damage. Nearly-free cost destruction spells made most fights pretty simple, but the big difference when fighting other magic users was resistance.

Breton resistance is 25% (despite some of the tips still saying 50%), and with double enchanting I wound up with three pieces with 25% resistance each. This made almost all magic damage fail against me, a big plus against electromancers. In fact, against some necromancers I simply held a spell ready to release so that the enemy would use all his mana on a Ward. Ward goes down, release spell.

I played with robes (no armor) and got the perks for better protection from Alteration spells, worked very well as long as you have some fancy footwork early on.

Morokei was really difficult before I had all my good gear. I wound up running to the high ledge and kiling him with one of his own minions' magicka drain bows.

[Morph Bark]

Orcs can do 60x sneak attack with daggers. 15x from perks, double that with double damage gloves and then another double from racial power.:smallbiggrin:

...what are you trying to make me do? Have my character be a sneaky Orc? Blasphemy! :smalltongue:

I'll be going with my Drow bard. :smallwink:

[LordShotGun]

So I just discovered the Atronach Forge (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Atronach_Forge), which apparently lets you craft enchanted Daedric armor and weapons and a bunch of Conjuration related stuff without investing any Perks in Smithing or Enchantment. Has anyone used this, and if so, is it worth while?

WHERE IS THIS I MUST KNOW :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

[Rion]

I thought, according to the description on the nexus, that the one mod that recolors the swords as well? Or was that a different mod than the one you refer to?
If you're referring to the mods I linked, then BGM definitely recolors the swords as well, but with a same colour scheme as the armour, rathen gold hilt and steel blde.

Or did I misunderstand what you said?

EDIT:
WHERE IS THIS I MUST KNOW :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:
In the Midden under the College of Winterhold. There should be a trap door leading to it in the courtyard.

[Morph Bark]

In the Midden under the College of Winterhold. There should be a trap door leading to it in the courtyard.

So that's what's down there! I was afraid to go any further in there after the door.

[GungHo]

Am I being ridiculous for asking questions like these?
Yes, but we still admire you anyway. Besides, there has to be someone out there to counterbalance the brutish Orcs like me that just punch problems in the face until they whimper like a Tickle Me Elmo with low batteries.


But that's just my bias talking - I love customizing gear, and would favor custom gear even when artifacts are more powerful. The fact that the artifacts are actually weaker than custom gear in this game makes crafting all the more preferred in my book.
It's really a paradigm shift from what you'd get in other games (particularly MMOs) where what you can craft is woefully generic and is not in any way equivalent to drops from high-end monsters.

I realize that Skyrim isn't an MMO and that gear is used as the carrot for the raid stick in MMOs, but crappy crafting really does underline a ridiculous waste of time (developer and player) in a lot of games, and I'm happy they did it some justice here.

[Muz]

Quick question: What do I need to be able to cast Invisibility? My Illusion skill is at 50 (or 60--I forget at the moment). So far I've not seen it available for sale.

[Valaqil]

Quick question: What do I need to be able to cast Invisibility? My Illusion skill is at 50 (or 60--I forget at the moment). So far I've not seen it available for sale.

Invsibility is an expert level spell, so... 65ish? 67? You can usually get a spell a few levels before the related rank perk, in this case at 70.

[Calemyr]

So I just discovered the Atronach Forge (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Atronach_Forge), which apparently lets you craft enchanted Daedric armor and weapons and a bunch of Conjuration related stuff without investing any Perks in Smithing or Enchantment. Has anyone used this, and if so, is it worth while?

Not really worthwhile. A summoned atronach without the Conjuration Perks is just cannon fodder and Daedric gear without the smithing perk isn't all that impressive. Still, the forge could give you a slightly early start, but by the time you have the resources to do it, you've been grinding enough that you could have gotten 90 smithing by then in any event.

[Muz]

Invsibility is an expert level spell, so... 65ish? 67? You can usually get a spell a few levels before the related rank perk, in this case at 70.

Thanks. I knew it was expert, but I hadn't picked up on where the various skill levels began on the point scale. :smallsmile:

[Valaqil]

Thanks. I knew it was expert, but I hadn't picked up on where the various skill levels began on the point scale. :smallsmile:

It's just every 25 skill points from 0 (Novice) to 100 (Master). Turns out I'm wrong (I double-checked): The perk is at 75, just like the skill rank. That said, I've had Invisibility since the late 60s. I'm not sure just how they calculate it, but I always got my next rank of spells before I hit the next rank itself.

[Eakin]

I have to say, I was a bit "surely that's a typo?" when I saw the 30x sneak attack damage perk for daggers. I suppose it doesn't help much at mid-levels when your Sneak isn't high enough to escape and you DIDN'T successfully one-hit that Draugr Dreadlord, though...

It's not a typo, and don't call me Shirley.

*rimshot* (http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot)

[Calemyr]

Spells appear in stores about 10 points before the perk becomes available. That means Apprentice spells are available at 15 skill and Expert spells are available at 65.

And yes, daggers can reach obscene levels, but it's actually tempered by the fact that Fortify One-Handed effects do not effect daggers. With max crafting, you can get +200 Fortify One-Handed, tripling the weapon's base damage, which combined with the x6 from the Backstab perk gets you effectively a x18 backstab multiplier, x36 with those gloves. Of course, the dagger perk does not require enchanting to be competitive, so it remains an effective weapon for those who don't feel like grinding Enchantment.

[13_CBS]

I've yet to play Skyrim, but I've been thinking about a hypothetical pugilist build.

Goals of this build: Create a decent melee build that uses ONLY unarmed attacks to deal direct damage. No shields, no Destruction spells, no summoned followers (though regular companions like Lydia will still be allowed), and obviously no other weapons. (Shouts are still allowed.)


Race: At the moment, the obvious choice seems to be Khajit, but if the inherent +15 to Unarmed Damage bonus doesn't stack with other bonuses for some reason, then perhaps some other race.


Skills: At the very least, maxed Enchanting, in order to be able to get 2 pieces of equipment with a large bonus to unarmed damage each, plus other benefits (probably increased stamina regeneration, .

This is where things get a little less obvious, however: what other skills should I invest in? Here are my ideas:

Heavy Armor: Highly protective, obviously, and I'll get maximum benefit from equipment such as Otar's mask, but the main draw is the Fists of Steel perk. However, the overall damage bonus doesn't seem to be spectacular: at best, I seem to get only a +18 bonus (Daedric gauntlets).

Light Armor: Less protective than Heavy Armor, obviously, but still provides a good bit of armor. The extra speed and stamina regeneration sound appealing, however.

Alteration: Elemental resistance and the Mage Armor perks sound great for a more tanky build.

Illusion: The fewer people attacking me, the better.



Thoughts? Are there any other skills I should invest in? Any other items I should know about?

[Calemyr]

I've yet to play Skyrim, but I've been thinking about a hypothetical pugilist build.

Goals of this build: Create a decent melee build that uses ONLY unarmed attacks to deal direct damage. No shields, no Destruction spells, no summoned followers (though regular companions like Lydia will still be allowed), and obviously no other weapons. (Shouts are still allowed.)


Race: At the moment, the obvious choice seems to be Khajit, but if the inherent +15 to Unarmed Damage bonus doesn't stack with other bonuses for some reason, then perhaps some other race.


Skills: At the very least, maxed Enchanting, in order to be able to get 2 pieces of equipment with a large bonus to unarmed damage each, plus other benefits (probably increased stamina regeneration, .

This is where things get a little less obvious, however: what other skills should I invest in? Here are my ideas:

Heavy Armor: Highly protective, obviously, and I'll get maximum benefit from equipment such as Otar's mask, but the main draw is the Fists of Steel perk. However, the overall damage bonus doesn't seem to be spectacular: at best, I seem to get only a +18 bonus (Daedric gauntlets).

Light Armor: Less protective than Heavy Armor, obviously, but still provides a good bit of armor. The extra speed and stamina regeneration sound appealing, however.

Alteration: Elemental resistance and the Mage Armor perks sound great for a more tanky build.

Illusion: The fewer people attacking me, the better.



Thoughts? Are there any other skills I should invest in? Any other items I should know about?

Fist of Iron gives bonus damage based on the armor rating of the gauntlets. I don't know for sure, but I think that includes armor bonuses from the heavy armor perk tree, the Ancient Knowledge quest reward, and upgrades via blacksmithy. You can get those numbers up pretty high with sufficient blacksmith skill.

The fortify unarmed damage works on both gauntlets and rings. Combine two powerful enchantments here, the Fist of Iron perk, and the Khajit claws, and you have a downright nasty unarmed attack power. You could make more powerful weapons, certainly, but there IS something to be said about punching down a dragon....

Oh, yeah, and Two-Handed skill supposedly governs your unarmed damage as well, according to the Wiki. If you finish the Companions quest, you can use Vilkas to train that up without ever relying on a weapon. Of course, other rumors suggest that it's effected by One-Handed skill and augmented by the Dual Wielding perks. It'll take some experimentation to work out which is thae case.

[13_CBS]

Fist of Iron gives bonus damage based on the armor rating of the gauntlets. I don't know for sure, but I think that includes armor bonuses from the heavy armor perk tree, the Ancient Knowledge quest reward, and upgrades via blacksmithy. You can get those numbers up pretty high with sufficient blacksmith skill.


The [Fists of Steel] perk modifies the damage done by unarmed attacks by the worn gauntlets' base armor rating, unmodified by perks, enchantments, or skill levels. This means Daedric gauntlets only add 18 damage to your unarmed attacks no matter what.

:smallfrown:

This is largely the reason why I didn't immediately choose Heavy Armor over Light Armor and Alteration. I'll get the extra damage, but it doesn't look like it'll be such an overwhelming amount that the advantages of the other skills are blown out of the water.

*Shakes fist at Bethesda for making Unarmed so weak*

[Morph Bark]

Unarmed attacks sadly do not scale off the One-Handed tree, otherwise they would be much more viable and it would make Werewolves a lot better. I'm not sure if the Sneak Perk that makes one-handed sneak attacks deal 6x damage applies though.

EDIT: There is a guy in the Ratways that drops gauntlets that give +10 on Unarmed damage. I think it is Light Armor, but you could try Disenchant it and apply it to a lot of your equipment and see if it stacks with Fists of Steel.

[Person_Man]

Quick question: What do I need to be able to cast Invisibility? My Illusion skill is at 50 (or 60--I forget at the moment). So far I've not seen it available for sale.

There's an Illusion trainer at the College of Winterhold, who tends to have all of the Illusion related spell tomes earlier then other merchants.

Also, remember that Invisibility is broken when you move too close to an enemy, activate any item (including doors), swing a weapon, walk on a trap, or make noise (including walking with armor on unless you've cast Muffle, and spell casting without the Quiet Casting Perk).

So I'm honestly not sure what it's useful for.

[Morph Bark]

There's an Illusion trainer at the College of Winterhold, who tends to have all of the Illusion related spell tomes earlier then other merchants.

Also, remember that Invisibility is broken when you move too close to an enemy, activate any item (including doors), swing a weapon, walk on a trap, or make noise (including walking with armor on unless you've cast Muffle, and spell casting without the Quiet Casting Perk).

So I'm honestly not sure what it's useful for.

Hence why Illusion is an "all or nothing" magic tree. You won't get much out of it unless you really dedicate yourself to it.

[13_CBS]

EDIT: There is a guy in the Ratways that drops gauntlets that give +10 on Unarmed damage. I think it is Light Armor, but you could try Disenchant it and apply it to a lot of your equipment and see if it stacks with Fists of Steel.

Problem: the +X to Unarmed bonus can only be applied to stuff worn on the hands (gauntlets, gloves, etc) and rings. So if the max bonus per equipment is +10, then through enchanted equipment I can only get a total bonus of +20. Nonetheless, if/when I build this character I'll still max Enchantment, if only to get all the sweet resistance and health/stamina regeneration enchantments.

[Morph Bark]

Problem: the +X to Unarmed bonus can only be applied to stuff worn on the hands (gauntlets, gloves, etc) and rings. So if the max bonus per equipment is +10, then through enchanted equipment I can only get a total bonus of +20. Nonetheless, if/when I build this character I'll still max Enchantment, if only to get all the sweet resistance and health/stamina regeneration enchantments.

If you can dual enchant, you would get +40, making it pretty nice, though not on the same level as Sneaksters with +200% and x30 daggers of course.

[Person_Man]

Problem: the +X to Unarmed bonus can only be applied to stuff worn on the hands (gauntlets, gloves, etc) and rings. So if the max bonus per equipment is +10, then through enchanted equipment I can only get a total bonus of +20. Nonetheless, if/when I build this character I'll still max Enchantment, if only to get all the sweet resistance and health/stamina regeneration enchantments.

Base Unarmed Damage: 1-3ish
Khajiit: +10
Fists of Steel Perk: Gauntlet Armor Value - Daedric Gauntlets is 18 prior to Smithing and Heavy Armor Skills.
Unarmed Enchantment on gauntlets: +10ish (can be improved with Enchanting)
Unarmed Enchantment on ring: +10ish (can be improved with Enchanting)

So that's base damage of 50ish, and it looks like it has the fastest swing speed in the game, and it can benefit from Smithing & Enchantment & Heavy Armor Skills.

Seems workable to me. But it does come with a down side in that you're robbing yourself of Weapon enchantments (Drain Health, Drain Stamina, etc) and whatever you would have otherwise put on your Gauntlets and Ring.

[GungHo]

Hmm... maybe one of the smarter modders can design knuckle-dusters that could be enchanted like weapons.

[Valaqil]

There's an Illusion trainer at the College of Winterhold, who tends to have all of the Illusion related spell tomes earlier then other merchants.

Also, remember that Invisibility is broken when you move too close to an enemy, activate any item (including doors), swing a weapon, walk on a trap, or make noise (including walking with armor on unless you've cast Muffle, and spell casting without the Quiet Casting Perk).

So I'm honestly not sure what it's useful for.

Yeah, I found out the hard way that Invisibility + Opening Door/Chest == Caught. What I use it for: Have spell/weapon already equipped. Enter room, sneak attack / whichever spell, clean up, re-cast Invisibility. You can probably do most things just as easily without it, but it's useful for 1H/Dagger sneak attacks. Oh, or trying to lose someone while sneaking. Shoot a guy with an arrow, cast Invisibility, watch guard go back to ignoring you after a moment.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

No, the archery is not essential. I just said what I did. The key thing is to put on fortifications you use. You could swap Fortify Block for Fortify Archery on the gloves, amulet, and ring if you like, though that might be overkill. You could swap archery on the helmet for Waterbreathing (which is very handy). You could swap destruction for restoration or any other school of magic.

I'd probably say Warrior and then either Lord or Steed depending on if you get the Conditioning perk. Heavy armor without the slowdown is a beautiful thing.

One last detail, however: Dawnbreaker is a cool weapon, but it is by NO means the best. It doesn't have a smith perk, and while the enchantment is awesome against undead, it's pretty weak otherwise. If it were me, I'd have another weapon handy for killing the living. The Blades sword in Delphine's secret room is an awesome weapon: light, stylish, unenchanted, and upgraded by the Steel smith perk. Dragonbane at Anduin's Wall is a good mate to that sword, though it's only really great against dragons - Blades Sword + Dragonbane + Orcish Armor = Classic Samurai.

The enchant for the Blades Sword depends on your perks. Fiery Soul Trap is always a good call. If you have either the elemental perks in the Enchanting tree or some of the augment element perks in the destruction tree, use the most favorable element. Otherwise Absorb Health is a very effective standby.
I don't know, I've found Dawnbreaker to be useful against the living by virtue of it doing high damage anyway and setting things on fire. The benefits against the undead are just gravy. And it DOES have a Smith perk: Arcane Blacksmith, which allows you to use smithing on enchanted items. After that, all it takes are Ebony ingots to upgrade most, if not all weapon or armor based Daedric artifacts.

I do intend to get Conditioning perk, though now I'm seriously debating Ebony, Glass or Dragonscale armor after mulling your suggestions about it over the night. If I go with glass, I'll just enchant a glass sword, so it goes with the rest of the ensemble. I'm not too sure about Ebony, since it's a curved sword, and curved swords don't really fit this guy (hence why I'm not interested in the Blades swords. I'll go with that when I actually want to make a samurai character. So at the moment, I'll probably either stick with Warrior (which I picked on the way to Riverwood) or get Lord later.

Is Fiery Soul Trap a specific kind of enchantment or just combining a flame enchantment and a soul trap enchantment in the same weapon?

[Calemyr]

Just did some experiments by doing one of my favorite things: punching Faendal repeatedly and using "getav health". Quality of armor and skill with it do nothing to the damage, nor does either weapon skill. The best enchantment you can get (barring exploits) is +14 with maxed enchanting plus a +32% fortify enchanting potion.

So you've got 4 base + 15 Khajit + 18 Fist of Iron + 14 Enchantment + 14 Enchantment = 65 damage per swing. Fully augmented (max blacksmithy plus enchantments and potions, but without skill or perks), a Daedric Dagger only hits the upper 70s. All told, not too bad for a build without any form of weapon at all.



I don't know, I've found Dawnbreaker to be useful against the living by virtue of it doing high damage anyway and setting things on fire. The benefits against the undead are just gravy. And it DOES have a Smith perk: Arcane Blacksmith, which allows you to use smithing on enchanted items. After that, all it takes are Ebony ingots to upgrade most, if not all weapon or armor based Daedric artifacts.

I do intend to get Conditioning perk, though now I'm seriously debating Ebony, Glass or Dragonscale armor after mulling your suggestions about it over the night. If I go with glass, I'll just enchant a glass sword, so it goes with the rest of the ensemble. I'm not too sure about Ebony, since it's a curved sword, and curved swords don't really fit this guy (hence why I'm not interested in the Blades swords. I'll go with that when I actually want to make a samurai character. So at the moment, I'll probably either stick with Warrior (which I picked on the way to Riverwood) or get Lord later.

Is Fiery Soul Trap a specific kind of enchantment or just combining a flame enchantment and a soul trap enchantment in the same weapon?

Arcane Blacksmith doesn't count. By Smith Perks I'm talking about the fact that all the perks (other than Arcane Blacksmith) the amount of upgrading you can do to a piece of equipment. A Daedric weapon with the Daedric craft perk (and the other blacksmithing buffs: potions and enchantments) can be augmented to absurd levels, while artifacts and other non-craftables tend not to be. So you'll be powerful with Dawnbreaker, but not about half as powerful as you'd be with something else - even a simple steel blade will upgrade beyond what Dawnbreaker can achieve. Which, by the way, could answer your weapon question: a steel sword (better yet a skyforged steel sword if you're getting involved with the Companions), or even a simple Ancient Nord sword is just as viable a weapon in the long run as an ebony sword.

Fiery Soul Trap is an exotic enchant, yes. It's found in the Ironbind Barrow, in the mountains between Winterhold and Whiterun. You'll know you're at the right place when a redguard girl and an argonian man are sitting outside arguing about whether it's safe to go in there. The dungeon's not hard, but the final boss is - you'll be glad you've got two extra allies for that fight. The ax hanging from the back of the throne has the enchant, which can be disenchanted.

Fiery Soul Trap rocks because it's a fully functional soul trap enchant that adds fire damage on top of it. Not much (10, unless you've got augment element or elemental enchantment perks), but the beautiful bit is that it doesn't change no matter how strong or weak you make the enchantment. Reduce the enchant to 2 seconds and it's a REALLY cheap enchantment (can swing a lot of times before needing recharging) that STILL does 10+ fire damage.

[Sipex]

Casters are super easy for Atronarch bretons. That's how I beat the mages guild quests. I'd hit my racial ability for 100% absorb magicka.

I thought the Breton racial was currently broken with the newest patch. Was this before the fact or did I hear wrong?

I'm hoping I heard wrong, I play a Breton and never bothered to use the racial ability simply because I thought it was currently useless.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I thought the Breton racial was currently broken with the newest patch. Was this before the fact or did I hear wrong?

I'm hoping I heard wrong, I play a Breton and never bothered to use the racial ability simply because I thought it was currently useless.

Wrong racial ability. From what I understand, your racial POWER is still fine, it's your innate magic resistance that's been nullified.

[13_CBS]

Just did some experiments by doing one of my favorite things: punching Faendal repeatedly and using "getav health". Quality of armor and skill with it do nothing to the damage, nor does either weapon skill. The best enchantment you can get (barring exploits) is +14 with maxed enchanting plus a +32% fortify enchanting potion.

So you've got 4 base + 15 Khajit + 18 Fist of Iron + 14 Enchantment + 14 Enchantment = 65 damage per swing. Fully augmented (max blacksmithy plus enchantments and potions, but without skill or perks), a Daedric Dagger only hits the upper 70s. All told, not too bad for a build without any form of weapon at all.

Many thanks for the info, to both you, Person Man, and everyone else. :smallbiggrin:

Are there any other skills you guys might recommend getting for a Pugilist for augmenting combat abilities? Like, say, Restoration, or Illusion, etc.?

[Calemyr]

Wrong racial ability. From what I understand, your racial POWER is still fine, it's your innate magic resistance that's been nullified.

That's been fixed with the new patch (1.3) as well, supposedly. By the way, I added a response to your previous post to my last one, in case you missed it.



Are there any other skills you guys might recommend getting for a Pugilist for augmenting combat abilities? Like, say, Restoration, or Illusion, etc.?

Alteration and Restoration would give you defensive options, especially vital if you're not going to use heavy armor. But really, if you're not going to use any form of offense (weapons, summoning, destruction), there's not a lot of difference defensive spells are going to make - they are either going to chew you up, or you'll be able to simply outlast them.

[Deth Muncher]

Hey, so, it seems like the general consensus is that Unarmed needs to key off of One Handed, right? (Or maybe Two Handed, if you think about it...) Point is, maybe we should petition Bethesda to make this an official patch. I mean, all of you PC gamers can just do that on your own, and bully for you, but for those of us console gamers, we're out of luck. :/ But it seems like it wouldn't be imbalanced - I proposed 2H just because you're using both fists when you're unarmed, but still - it's something to think about.

[filvento]

Is this game Free? If it is, where can i download it?

[pffh]

Is this game Free? If it is, where can i download it?


It's not free but you can buy it for 60$ on steam for the PC or in stores for consoles/pc.

[filvento]

Im not from america so , That hurts.. its kind x4.5 here. Sucks.. i really wanted to play it.

[Calemyr]

Is this game Free? If it is, where can i download it?

No, it's a traditional game - pay upfront, no multiplayer, no monthly fee. But trust me, they earned their money this time. The game is huge, gorgeous, well fleshed out, long, and robust. It has quite a few bugs at the moment and a few questionable design choices regarding balance, but those are standard for such a large sandbox game absolutely pale in comparison to what these people achieved this time around.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's been fixed with the new patch (1.3) as well, supposedly. By the way, I added a response to your previous post to my last one, in case you missed it.
Wait, when did this new patch come out?! :smalleek:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Wait, when did this new patch come out?! :smalleek:

For PC? Yesterday.
For Consoles? Not soon enough.

[Gaelbert]

So I've decided I'm going to enchant my daggers. Not because I need it, my x30 damage is quite enough for most all foes, but mainly just for the fluff side of it. What enchantments should an assassin use? I'm going to go for the flaming soul trap, because I like the idea of an assassin that kills her enemy and then steals the soul, but that leaves me with 3 more available enchantments. Maybe an absorb stamina?

[Avilan the Grey]

...what are you trying to make me do? Have my character be a sneaky Orc? Blasphemy! :smalltongue:

It's the only way to play! She's cute, too!


Btw, this is interesting: Swedish PC Gamer is giving Skyrim the lowest score I have seen so far, a measly 79%. The biggest reason is the ambivalent NPCs (which is nothing new, and didn't impact New Vegas or FO3's reviews) and "too much streamlining" with complaints about Swords not being 3 different classes in itself like in Daggerfall, etc.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

For PC? Yesterday.
For Consoles? Not soon enough.

Ah, that explains a lot. I didn't play Skyrim yesterday. :smalltongue:

[Anderlith]

What enchants are recommended for a Destruction/ Block/ Light Armor, spec'd Breton? Also I don't need infinite Destruction.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Incidentally, I think I've changed my mind. Instead of Ebony and Heavy Armor, I'm going to specialize in Light Armor and wear Glass armor, and use an enchanted Glass Sword. Glass looks pretty knightly in its own way, especially with the Glass Sword. Plus it's got an open helm, so you can see your own face. That way I can save the heavy armor for the next character I'm playing: a Battlemage, specializing in Destruction spells and staves and the like, but wearing Heavy Armor.

[Avilan the Grey]

Boy this is so much easier when you know what you are doing... the first main quest (golden claw) suddenly gets soo easy when you already know what Draugr that will come alive, so you can shoot them before they do...

Also, firewood, or as I call it: "How to afford to buy anything".

[Calemyr]

What enchants are recommended for a Destruction/ Block/ Light Armor, spec'd Breton? Also I don't need infinite Destruction.

It depends on several factors: Are you using a one handed weapon or fighting two hand? What perks are you going to take? Elemental enchanter perks? Augment Element perks? How are you hoping to play? There are a lot of factors to deal with.

Here are some things I've found:

* Magicka Regen is nice. With a high enough regen, your mage will have their juice back before they finish the spell. It's not "free" - you're limited to your magicka pool and can't cast without any rest at all, but you still have low enough recovery time that it's effectively free. Archmage's Robes and the Morokei mask are wonders in this regard.

* Fortify block is great if you're going two-handed. Two-handed weapons don't block as much as shields, so you'll get more bang for your buck from the fortify block enchants.

* Muffle is nice. Finding a disenchantable armor with muffle is extremely, extremely hard, but I found one by accident and I've come love the muffle enchant. That way the fight doesn't start until YOU are ready.

* Fortify Armor is of little use, since you can so easily go past the cap otherwise. It can give you a little edge if you don't have anything else to put there, but it's not going to be more than a minor edge.

* As I told the Archpaladin, Fiery Soul Trap is a very good ability to have. It's not the most potent offense around, but a cheap bit of minor fire plus a fully functional soul trap makes it a very good standby.

* Banish is great for making money. The enchant sells for a lot and if you find a weapon with that enchant (it's rare), you can basically use it to render your smithy/enchanting grinding self-financing.

* Shield of Solitude has a different Resist Magic effect than the one you normally find. If you get both, you can put both on any shield or jewelry you find.

* If you meet Parthanaax before mastering smithing, there's a pickax at the highest point of the mountain he lives on. Besides doing minor shock damage, it also (supposedly) boosts your smithy skill. This seems to raise your skill level rather than your upgrade score directly, however, and is useless once you've hit 100 smithing.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Say I use Fiery Soul Trap to make a weapon. Assuming I have the final Enchanting perk I can pick one extra effect. What would you suggest that extra effect be? It's my understanding that a strong reason to pursue Two-Handed is because Volendrung has a Drain Stamina enchantment, meaning that if you keep it charged, you can effectively have unlimited power attacks. Is this a good idea? I know you mentioned Drain Health earlier. What about a frost enchantment, or maybe a unique one like Silent Moons?

[Deth Muncher]

Calemyr, what level were you when you found something enchanted with Muffle?

[Calemyr]

Found it pretty early, I think. Twenties? I was rebuilding a character for my brother and saw some muffled iron boots. (When the thieves guild derailed because he'd already visited a landmark, he didn't feel like redoing all the grinding. So I did the grinding for him.) I bought the boots and ran, and it's been on any boots he's worn since, with the brief exception of when he tried the Ebony Mail - nice looking stuff, but the shadow aura makes it much harder to aim with a bow.

Don't know enough of how Silent Moons works to say if it's a worthwhile enchantment. It only works at night, after all, so it's got a lot of ground to cover to be useful. Haven't seen any solid stats on it's energy consumption and such, so I can't really comment on it. Absorb Stamina isn't a hard enchantment to find, if you keep an eye out at shops. Absorb Health is always a favorite of mine, as it allows you to stay in the game longer. It's also good for keeping score when using a bow - you may not get the soul trap to trigger (no soul gem), but you'll usually get a red aura if you landed a proper hit.

Elemental damages are tricky, because they each have their own secondary effect, there are multiple perks that effect them, and those perks handle things in different ways. The elemental enchanter perks in the enchantment tree improve both your elemental damage weapons and your elemental resist armor, which is nice, but only effect that ONE element. Augment Element, however, improves all elemental damage in a weapon as long as the Augmented element is present. For instance, if you have two points of Augment Shock and make a weapon of Shock and Fiery Soul Trap, the shock damage will be increased by 50% and the Fiery Soul Trap's fire damage will be increased by 50% as well (in other words it will do 15 damage rather than 10).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, I just created Arnethir, my High Elf Paladin and he looks...well...interesting. Like I took Leonard Nimoy's head and stuck it on Arnold Schwarzenegger's body and spray-painted the skin yellow. :smalleek:

[Anderlith]

He uses a Shield & a spell, I hardly ever switch to a weapon. I wear light armor but he's not a sneakthief. I'm maxing out Smithing & Enchanting. Block & Destruction. I rarely summon anything, but I do use Restoration a lot for healing. He's a general all-purpose adventurer. He will not steal or murder.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

GAH! And now I wanna start over again! I keep changing my mind about what I want my character to be! :smallsigh:

[Avilan the Grey]

GAH! And now I wanna start over again! I keep changing my mind about what I want my character to be! :smallsigh:

Well as long as you don't delete that first save, you don't have to spend 4½ minutes doing the wagon ride at the start.

Speaking about stuff... This time I got something useful from the good Jarl after giving the tablet: A pair of (unfortunately heavy armor) steel bracers of archery (+15% damage).

Urzul's adventure so far:

After stealing the good smith and his family blind, she created a set of fine leather armor, fine steel sword and fine steel dagger and a fine hunting bow and ran off to get the golden claw with her new elven companion.

After doing that, and toying with her rage and raise weak zombie spells, and discovering she could really level her sneak quickly by raising everything she killed and then backstabbing it to death (again) she did have to resort to tapping into her ancestry to take on the final Draugr (it is amazing how easy he was with berserker rage going).

After delivering and selling and crafting she walked to Witherun, but stopped at the stables and for some reason nobody knows took the wagon to Markath. A stone out in the wilderness called for her and she went there.

(Btw forsworn armor is stupid-looking!).

She got jumped by a sabretooth cat that was better at sneaking than she was, but with the help of a scroll of fireball, her elven friend and the sword of cold she had on her, it was easily killed.

Back in Witherun she talked to the Jarl, bought a spellbook of Bound Sword and is now on her way to fight a dragon...

[Worguron]

Boy this is so much easier when you know what you are doing... the first main quest (golden claw) suddenly gets soo easy when you already know what Draugr that will come alive, so you can shoot them before they do...

I caught on about midway through that area and started blasting sleeping Draugr with gouts of flame as I went through the area. Even now, my level thirty-something mage still goes through the crypts in the same way. Blast the sleeping things to make sure they don't decide to wake up and stab you.

[Avilan the Grey]

I caught on about midway through that area and started blasting sleeping Draugr with gouts of flame as I went through the area. Even now, my level thirty-something mage still goes through the crypts in the same way. Blast the sleeping things to make sure they don't decide to wake up and stab you.

I use bow and arrow, but yes. Same principle. Any Draugr with armor and weapons... *twang* from the next room over. Then re-animate and backstab because you know... fun.

[factotum]

If you're actively sneaking then you tend to get glitchy little "Discovered" moments before going back to Hidden when sneaking past a "live" Draugr, so that makes it pretty easy to tell which ones are just sleeping too!

[Morph Bark]

If you're actively sneaking then you tend to get glitchy little "Discovered" moments before going back to Hidden when sneaking past a "live" Draugr, so that makes it pretty easy to tell which ones are just sleeping too!

I prettymuch just walk around and look which ones look a little different from the rest. Those are one of the few moments when I am not sneaking (though I will sneak if they are already up and walking). I can easily walk up to them and hit them twice or thrice before they stand up fully.

[LordShotGun]

I was lucky enough to get the aura whisper shout that gives you 10 seconds of seeing ALL NPCs including undead and robots. This is by far the most useful shout in my current sneaky archer play through.


I have also come to the conclusion that I suck at being chaotic evil. I just can't bring myself to do things just for the "Evulz". I say this because in my current character I made a racist elven superiority altamer but I just can't bring myself to be chaotic stupid. At best/worst I'm like neutral evil but most of the time I am just lawful evil.


Oh, and first time doing the darkbrother hood quest lines and loving every second of the characters (particularly the mage assassin because fireballs are oh so stealthy) and quests.

[nhbdy]

I've noticed as a stealth character that the draugr are almost completely oblivious to a sneaking character, they just lie there and make for easy pickings with backstabs.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

My redguard did do some stuff for the evlulz. Those altmer jerks who run the clothing store in Solitude were straight up murdered in the night because of how rude they were to me.

[Person_Man]

I have also come to the conclusion that I suck at being chaotic evil. I just can't bring myself to do things just for the "Evulz". I say this because in my current character I made a racist elven superiority altamer but I just can't bring myself to be chaotic stupid. At best/worst I'm like neutral evil but most of the time I am just lawful evil.

Yeah, I too have a hard time with the fact that half of the game (Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood, most of the Daedric quests, and a variety of miscellaneous quests) involve hard core Evil, and that there really isn't corresponding GOOD organizations or plot lines.

[Calemyr]

Yeah, I too have a hard time with the fact that half of the game (Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood, most of the Daedric quests, and a variety of miscellaneous quests) involve hard core Evil, and that there really isn't corresponding GOOD organizations or plot lines.

Which is kinda funny, because people complain too loudly about how the only practical way to play most games is to be good-aligned, that evil gets sub-par goals and unsatisfying conclusions when the whole point of being evil is fun and quick and easy power. Finally a game comes out that supports good ole fashioned evil PCs and players find they can't stomach it. It is gorgeous, it really is.



Urzul's adventure so far:

After delivering and selling and crafting she walked to Witherun, but stopped at the stables and for some reason nobody knows took the wagon to Markath. A stone out in the wilderness called for her and she went there.


I assume you're talking about the Lovers Stone. Does that one still have the bug that renders any rested bonuses invalid? Supposedly the stone gives you the same "class" of bonus the three rested statuses do, and the class is designed not to stack. That makes it great for lycanthropes, but pretty poor for anyone else. If you're grinding, at least, it's better to go to the big three and pick the correct stone, rent a room to get the rested bonus, and then get to work. That gives you 8 hours with a 30% increase in experience in that third of the skills.

[Valaqil]

Yeah, I too have a hard time with the fact that half of the game (Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood, most of the Daedric quests, and a variety of miscellaneous quests) involve hard core Evil, and that there really isn't corresponding GOOD organizations or plot lines.

I think I'm okay with the lack of a corresponding organization. I wish there were alternatives, but it doesn't really bug me that there aren't. That said, what does bug me is the lack of good ways to complete some of those quests. Or seeming lack of, since I haven't followed them closely. For example, in the DB line,
you can destroy the DB by killing Astrid,

whereas with many of the Daedric quests I encountered, there was no way to resolve them in a "good" manner. I just don't want to help X kill Y. :smallfrown: