Build help/advice..duskblade and a Gish

[Legendairy]

Seems like I ask a lot from you guys and well I do, so here is me asking for some more. I do want you all to know I really can't thank you all enough. So yeah umm thank you in advance.

Ok what I am needing (since the search forums isnt working for me) is a solid fairly OP Duskblade build, what feats, PrC, Skills, and from 1-20 (we are starting a new campaign) the OP level is somewhat high not to the hilt but fairly close.

The other order is a Barbarian/Sorcerer Gish same things 1-20, feats, skills, PrC's.

Pretty much all books available, no dragon mag homebrew or PF and no flaws.

Some possible early to mid level equipment based on WBL would be cool but definately not needed.

Thank you all in advance!

[Aegis013]

Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Warblade 1/Jade Pheonix Mage 9

Race: Human, Grey Elf, basically whatever.

Feats: Combat Casting (2nd level bonus feat from Duskblade), Practiced Spellcaster (12th or higher)
Other good feats: Power Attack, Versatile Spellcaster, metamagics, etc

Skills:
Concentration: Max
Knowledge: Arcana, History, and Religion at least 2 each.
Spellcraft: Max
Skilltrick: Swift concentration and possibly Collector of Stories (they're good)
Remaining: whatever you want.

Should net you:
20 BAB
highest level spells available
8th level Maneuvers and Stances (Initiator level 15)
Fun.

The rest of the feats are just depending if you want to lean more magic or more melee. It's doesn't have everything filled out, but it should be a decent gish.

Edit:
Gear would be pretty standard stuff.
Belt of Battle and Boots of Speed would be fairly high priority.
Diamondskin Decanter is fun.
Ring of Arcane Might.
Mithral Breastplate. (Duskblade lets you ignore the Arcane Spell failure)
Githcraft Darkwood Buckler or light shield.
Eventually Vest of the Archmage would be a great pick. Although quite expensive (200k gp)

[stack]

What is practiced spellcaster for? Doesn't abjurant champ set CL =BAB at level 5?

[Aegis013]

What is practiced spellcaster for? Doesn't abjurant champ set CL =BAB at level 5?

That slipped by me... you're right. Scratch Practiced Spellcaster. That build doesn't have to use any of its feats for pre requisites. Thanks for the catch.

[Legendairy]

What about the Barbarian/Sorc Gish??

[Aegis013]

What about the Barbarian/Sorc Gish??

Anything more specific? Is there anything you want it to do specifically? You're simply going to lose power by mixing the two. They really don't work well together at all, since once you rage you can't use spells.

The Instruments of the Blood Gift set (specifically the bracers) from MiC can add a rage-like ability to your sorcerer. But the resulting gish is still going to be pretty suboptimal. It'd be better to simply play the Mailman.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Or go for a nice Sorcadin, or SC gish.

Paladin 2/Bard 8/SC 2/Abjurant Champion 5/X 3

Simple, direct, powerful.

[Legendairy]

I agree that it will be sub par as far as gishes go but that's what the player wants. I recommended a sorcadin and was told no, he said he doesn't see how a sorcerer and a pally mix cause pallies are lawful and sorcerers tend towards chaotic, I even pointed out that TEND was the operative word and that not all halflings are rogues because they tend to be.

[Aegis013]

Well... if that's what's being requested.

Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 2(Get Wolf Totem also, if allowed, since they replace different things)/Sorcerer 4/Crusader 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Jade Pheonix Mage 8

...it's going to be horrible.

[Essence_of_War]

Ok what I am needing (since the search forums isnt working for me) is a solid fairly OP Duskblade build, what feats, PrC, Skills, and from 1-20 (we are starting a new campaign) the OP level is somewhat high not to the hilt but fairly close.


How much Duskblade does the duskblade gish need? :smallamused:

I've always liked this:

Duskblade 4 / Warblade 2 /Suel Arcanamach 4 / Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5 / MOAR WARBLADE X

Feel free to be even sillier with Sublime Chord once you've got the requisite Arcanamach casting if you'd like!

It plays like a melee build with that delicious smack of the arcane. Even w/o buffs, you've still got a reasonably good chasis, but because of the nice synergy between your almost full BAB, the Arcanamach features, you'll be REALLY hard to dispel, and have free extend on all your buffs that arguably stacks with the actual Extend feat!

[Fax Celestis]

What about the Barbarian/Sorc Gish??

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 8/Runescarred Berserker 10/Whatever you want (Totemist? More barbarian?) 2

[docnessuno]

About duskblade builds:
The best drop-out points for duskblades are 3, 5, 12 and 15 (or none at all), anything else is a real waste of levels.

Also duskblade is one of the few classes that really works wonders on its own.
Mixing it with abjurant champion is worthy only if the DM allows "extra spell" to grab wiz/sorc spells, or any other way to get extra spells on your list.
Mixing duskblade with manouver-granting classes is on of the few things that could convince me to forgo the "multichanneling" ability, since ToB stuff usually relies on standar-action attacks, the problem of this kind of builds otoh is being swift-action starved.

[Essence_of_War]

If you need Combat Casting but can't be bothered to spend a feat, Duskblade 2 gets you it with a GREAT chasis.

[Kaje]

Duskblade 13 / Chameleon 7 gets you a bunch of arcane and divine spells off any list. Fill it up with buffs and touch spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Barbarian is far from an ideal choice for a gish, for two reasons:
1. You cannot cast spells while raging, so you either get to be a barbarian, or you get to be a gish;
2. Barbarian lacks the armor proficiencies to qualify for Spellsword, making it a suboptimal choice in comparison to just about anything that does grant proficiency in martial weapons and heavy armor with a full BAB.

Luckily in this game, you can easily make a character who's described as a barbarian without taking any levels in the barbarian class. You could just make a Sorcerer gish and give him the appropriate skills (Survival, Intimidate, maybe Kn: Nature) and personality to call him a barbarian.

I'd go something like CG Human Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Sorcerer 2/ Human Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. Get Combat Reflexes, Practiced Spellcaster, Power Attack, Item Familiar, Arcane Preparation, Extend Spell, Arcane Strike, Minor Shapeshift, and pick from Divine Might, Persistent Spell, and Defensive Sweep for the last two. If you can use flaws, take Spell Focus: Transmutation and Ability Enhancer as well. Arcane Preparation is there for (Greater) Luminous Armor, which benefits from Abjurant Champion. If you want to (ab)use Persistent Spell, use Illumian with the Naenhoon runeword, you'll still qualify for Human Paragon since they're Humanoid (Human). In that case you want Persistent Spell at 12th level, and you'll have one fewer feat starting out.

[Fax Celestis]

1. You cannot cast spells while raging, so you either get to be a barbarian, or you get to be a gish

Mostly true. There's Champion of Gwynharwyf, Runescarred Berserker, and (lol) Rage Mage: all have their own 'cast-in-rage' abilities. I prefer Runescarred Berserker (better spell list, relevant barb features continued), but Champion of Gwynharwyf has its merits.

[hex0]

Duskblade 13 / Chameleon 7 gets you a bunch of arcane and divine spells off any list. Fill it up with buffs and touch spells.

On a related note: Duskblade 13/Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Ultimate Magus 4...is ok.

Duskblade 13/Warblade 1/JPM 6

Spellthief 1/Duskblade 13/xxx 6 gives you some tricks

Also...

Daggerspell Mage also gets full attack channeling in a way: Spellthief 1/Duskblade 4/Daggerspell Mage 10/xxx 5

13 is the jumping off point for Duskblade. It really is a great class...

[Legendairy]

Thank you all, the Duskblade is going straight Duskblade, still curious as to good feats, I know he has a two hander and power attack as his main option. Does anyone know of any better way to build a Duskblade he is going all the way to 20 in the class.

Ok the Barb/Sorc I know its not ideal it was my idea but initially he could not be talked out of it. Now he did change his mind eventually and even tho its not a Sorcadin build he is going Pally/War Mage. Again not optimal but it will have to do I suppose, i think he would just turn the sorc into a blaster anyway so I suppose it works out. Any hints, tips, advice in general on either build would be awesome. Thank you all again.

[Grendus]

Barb/sorc could work if your DM allowed you to take Extra Rage and apply it towards your spell rages. That would be homebrew, but within the realm of reason. If he does, something like Barbarian 2/Sorcerer 4/Rage Mage 2/Abjurant Champion 5/SpellSword 1/Sacred Exorcist 6 would work. You'd have to take Extra Rage a few times since you stopped progressing your rage classes, but you get a fair amount of power from it. Not quite a sorcadin, but close.

[skycycle blues]

Thank you all, the Duskblade is going straight Duskblade, still curious as to good feats, I know he has a two hander and power attack as his main option. Does anyone know of any better way to build a Duskblade he is going all the way to 20 in the class.

Ok the Barb/Sorc I know its not ideal it was my idea but initially he could not be talked out of it. Now he did change his mind eventually and even tho its not a Sorcadin build he is going Pally/War Mage. Again not optimal but it will have to do I suppose, i think he would just turn the sorc into a blaster anyway so I suppose it works out. Any hints, tips, advice in general on either build would be awesome. Thank you all again.

Paladin/Warmage build is gonna be much harder to build then Sorcadin. Warmage doesn't grant access to Abjurant Champion or Sacred Exorcist.

Crusader 2/Warmage 4/SpellSword 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/something else 3 could work. It's similar to Paladin, lose out on the oh so sweet Divine Grace, but get what might be a decent build.

Or he could play a Warmage/Rainbow Servant that just happens to also have 2 levels of Paladin in it. Paladin 2/Warmage 6/Rainbow Servant 10/something 2.
Spontaneous Cleric casting is nice.

[docnessuno]

Thank you all, the Duskblade is going straight Duskblade, still curious as to good feats, I know he has a two hander and power attack as his main option. Does anyone know of any better way to build a Duskblade he is going all the way to 20 in the class.

Ok the Barb/Sorc I know its not ideal it was my idea but initially he could not be talked out of it. Now he did change his mind eventually and even tho its not a Sorcadin build he is going Pally/War Mage. Again not optimal but it will have to do I suppose, i think he would just turn the sorc into a blaster anyway so I suppose it works out. Any hints, tips, advice in general on either build would be awesome. Thank you all again.

Duskblade 20 is a legitimate choice, there's really nothing bad in 2 additional quickened spells / day, and +5 to overcome SR is useful.
About feats:
Mandatory: Power attack, Arcane strike, Extra spell (if DM allows to pick Wiz/Sor spells, possibly take it multiple times), Knowledge devotion
Not bad: Improved toughness, Improved initiative, Weapon focus, Exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain or similar), Obtain familiar + Improved familiar

About the other gish: Using your spellcasting part to blast is the worst possible thing you can do with a gish.

[Legendairy]

About the other gish: Using your spellcasting part to blast is the worst possible thing you can do with a gish.

Thank you for the feat selection options that should help A LOT!

I would agree but alas people play how they want to regardless if its better or not.

[Essence_of_War]

re: the duskblade, there is a good handbook by dictuum_mortum (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html)

Gives you some good ideas, but generally speaking, Duskblade straight to 20 is a perfectly acceptable build.

[Fax Celestis]

Ok the Barb/Sorc I know its not ideal it was my idea but initially he could not be talked out of it. Now he did change his mind eventually and even tho its not a Sorcadin build he is going Pally/War Mage. Again not optimal but it will have to do I suppose, i think he would just turn the sorc into a blaster anyway so I suppose it works out. Any hints, tips, advice in general on either build would be awesome. Thank you all again.
My initial advice remains the same. If he wants to hit things and be casty, but still have a simple build, you are hard pressed to find something more succinct than the following (that isn't Duskblade 20).

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 8/Runescarred Berserker 10/Whatever you want (Totemist? More barbarian?) 2