Spell-Like Abilities and Actions

[missmvicious]

Could someone use an SLA in a Full Round Action as part of a Full Attack if the casting time for it were 1 round or less?

Say I wanted to cast Darkness on one group of enemies and attack an enemy in front of me. I have two attacks in a round, if I take a full round action. Can the SLA count as one attack and the attack count as the other?

I chose Darkness in this instance for a particular reason. It could be used for attack or defense equally. Like, a badly injured friend trying to hide and heal up; I could grant him concealment with a Darkness SLA while he hangs out in the back for someone who can spare a Heal spell. At this point, I'm not really using the spell to attack, so would it no longer be a Full Attack anymore? As long as I don't move, and I have multiple attacks in a round, can I still attack?

I guess what I'm asking is:
How do SLAs interact with Full Round Actions?

[Psyren]

SLAs are standard actions unless specified otherwise. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) (A Darkness SLA is therefore a standard action.)

A full-attack is a type of full-round action. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions)

You don't have enough actions to do both. Therefore, the only ways to use an SLA and full-attack in the same round are:

- gain additional actions
- quicken the SLA (making it a Swift action)

Or simply use an SLA which is naturally Swift.

[Big Fau]

Unless the SLA is a Swift, Immediate, or Free action to use, you cannot use it in conjunction with a Full Attack. This is because you are declaring a Full Attack action, which is a form of Full Round action.

[missmvicious]

Ok. Thanks!

[missmvicious]

So wait... how does that affect spells that are melee touch or ranged touch attacks?

Like, say Chill Touch or Touch of Idiocy? At level 12, you get 2 attacks per round. Granted, Chill Touch or Touch of Idiocy won't be high priority spells by then, but this is just a hypothetical situation to help me understand the rules better. Could I slap someone stupid with Touch of Idiocy, Shift then slap someone else stupid in the same way?

I mean, if a standard melee attack starts off as a Standard Action, but can be used in a Full Attack, can a melee touch attack spell be used the same way? Or is this just one of the few-and-far-between setbacks of being a Wizard?

I mean... if Wizards can't use their Full Attack to cast spells, why bother giving them a multi-round attack? Is it really so we can flail our quarterstaffs about at +6/+1 BAB for the amusement of the other PCs who told you not to go Nova on that last encounter?

[Big Fau]

So wait... how does that affect spells that are melee touch or ranged touch attacks?

Like, say Chill Touch or Touch of Idiocy? At level 12, you get 2 attacks per round. Granted, Chill Touch or Touch of Idiocy won't be high priority spells by then, but this is just a hypothetical situation to help me understand the rules better. Could I slap someone stupid with Touch of Idiocy, Shift then slap someone else stupid in the same way?

I mean, if a standard melee attack starts off as a Standard Action, but can be used in a Full Attack, can a melee touch attack spell be used the same way? Or is this just one of the few-and-far-between setbacks of being a Wizard?

I mean... if Wizards can't use their Full Attack to cast spells, why bother giving them a multi-round attack? Is it really so we can flail our quarterstaffs about at +6/+1 BAB for the amusement of the other PCs who told you not to go Nova on that last encounter?

Casting a Touch spell allows you to make a Touch Attack as part of the spell's effect.

For a spell like Chill Touch, you can use it's effect once/round during the duration, regardless of your BAB.

[missmvicious]

Ah... so the spell chews up the action regardless. The spell itself would not be an attack, therefore it doesn't strictly count as a melee or ranged attack for the purposes of measuring an action. Therefore, Wizards (without the Quickened Spell Feat, or some analogous Feat I don't know about) cannot use magic to attack multiple times in a round, regardless of what kind of spell it is.

... :smallfrown:

Oh well... can't blame a girl for trying.

[Big Fau]

Ah... so the spell chews up the action regardless. The spell itself would not be an attack, therefore it doesn't strictly count as a melee or ranged attack for the purposes of measuring an action. Therefore, Wizards (without the Quickened Spell Feat, or some analogous Feat I don't know about) cannot use magic to attack multiple times in a round, regardless of what kind of spell it is.

... :smallfrown:

Oh well... can't blame a girl for trying.

Duskblades can, and there are prestige classes (Enlightened Fist, Spellsword) that can help a Wizard do so.

[missmvicious]

Hm. Thanks, Big Fau!

I started off just trying to look into game mechanics, but now I'm amused by the idea of a "slapping" wizard, so I'll look into these PrCs you mentioned. Enlightened Fist sounds nice...

MWAhahahahah! Now I've got to come up with some nice one-liners for each attack.

[Douglas]

Think of it this way:
You have inputs (available actions) and outputs (results).
There are a number of options for converting inputs to outputs.
One of these options converts a standard action to one attack.
Another converts a full round action to multiple attacks.
The existence of the above two options implies nothing whatsoever about additional options relative to other things that take a standard action as input.
A spell like Darkness takes a standard action input and produces an area of reduced illumination as output. It is not related in any way to the full round action->multiple attacks option, so you cannot use it as part of a full attack.

Touch spells generally take a standard action as input and produce one no-action touch attack in the same round plus the spell's effect, which is usually dependent on that touch attack.

The reason things like disarm and sunder can be used as part of a full attack is that they take an attack, not a standard action, as their input. Full round action->multiple attacks, then attack->disarm or sunder.

[Feralventas]

If your DM will allow Pathfinder, the Magus class essentially operates as a fighter/mage with a bard-like spell-progression and two-weapon fighting with one weapon being an actual weapon and the other being a spell with an attack roll of some sort.