Advice on how to optimize hammer and piton

[Elvenoutrider]

Playgrounders, today while playing our weekly campaign one of our newbies walked in with a new character he believed to be optomised. The character was a halfling that pulled feats and devices from more sources than I cared to count. The character died in his first combat of the evening after using the hammer and piton feat to attempt to climb a creature with far greater melee prowess than he(our dm prides himself on his lethality. While the veterans are used to it, there is a bit of a learning curve for new players. This is explained to new players before they make their characters.)

This being the third character this player has gone through in this campaign, I have volunteered to help him make the next one. That said this thread is not about that player. This thread is about what was said afterwards, specifically that the feat in question was horridly unoptomised and could not be used effectively.

The rest of the group does not know that I will be taking up the reigns as dm soon. Id like to consider myself experienced and am quite familiar with most of the 3.5 material. One of my goals for this campaign is to create challenging encounters out of unoptomised classes. I would like to build one entirely out of the hammer and piton feat.

That said I dont have any idea on how to make this devistating. Has anyone ever used this effectively? Beyond the feat choice being central to the encounter this encounter has no other restricions. Bosses in my campaigns are typically gestalt but frankly I like to use the method of simply ignoring the rules for the sake of a good encounter. I dont even have a level in mind for this boss.

I'm truly looking forward to the day when I get to see my players faces when a small opponent uses this "noob" feat to devistate the party

[erikun]

You might want to mention what the feat does. I had to google it, and so I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right feat of a homebrewed idea with the same name.

The first thing I note is that the target must be large-size or larger, so your typical D&D party member would be immune. If the party likes making use of Enlarge Person or Righteous Might (or the ACF Rage that enlarges the character) then it could be used, but otherwise, it isn't an option.

Second, the following needs to happen on the same turn:
1.) Make a touch attack as a standard action.
2.) Make a climb check.
3.) Move into the target's space as a move action.
At which point, you are in a psudo-grappling situation, where you lose your Dex bonus to AC but move around with the target. That's kind of a bad deal - I can see why the PC died so easily when so vulnerable.

So you have three big problems. First, it drops your AC making you quite vulnerable. Second, it requires a standard and move action, meaning you (usually) cannot run up and hit an opponent with it. And third, you need to have something useful to do while in the opponent's square.


What I can think of is that we need some small opponents, such as goblins or kobolds. What I can also think of is Hustle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm), a psionic power that grants you an extra move action. With several 4th level Goblin Psychic Warriors (Blues (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) fit well) they could Hustle, move up to the target, and all piton themselves onto him. One will get hit with an AoO, but you should be able to fit 8 small creatures onto one large-sized creature.

Another option would be for the small creatures to start within 10', take a 5' step, and them attack/move into their space. (At least I think this works.) This would allow its use at a lot lower level, but require a lot more planning to pull off.

As for what to do while on there? Aid Another (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm) with a grapple. With seven others, that's a +14 to the check, well more than the +8 benefit for the PC being two sizes larger. You'll probably lose two or three due to AoO and attacks against their low AC, but it's the best I can think up right now.

Note that this is a swarm tactic, and as such, you'll need a lot of them. Eight 4th level characters is CR 10, and you'll want to include more than that to keep the rest of the party busy as well. Plus, 4th level opponents against a 12th+ level party are going to die pretty easily...

[limejuicepowder]

Adding on to the above poster, the goblins (or whatever they are) need something to do once they grapple. How about explode?

You would have to homebrew a little, but little minions that pile on to people and blow up would be awesome. The explosion would be strong, but have no radius - thus the monsters must pile on to characters to hit them (make them explode when they die too, so a successful AoO saves the character from that particular minion). The more monsters that are attached, the bigger it gets. Since they are attached on to the character, no save. I think 2d6 or even 2d8 per minion would be good lethal damage. The BBEG could even be a summoner, summoning extirely expendable and exploding w/e's.

SUPER GHOST KAMIKAZE ATTACK!