[Pathfinder] Alchemist Build Help

[Menteith]

I've been invited to join a friend's Pathfinder game. Originally, I was planning on porting an Illusionist that I'd been tinkering with over from 3.5, until I learned that they're really not optimizing much. I've been interested by the Alchemist as a concept for awhile, and it seems more appropriate to the power level of the campaign. There isn't another (optimized) caster, so the job of battlefield control will probably be mine. This is OK with me, since that's one of the areas that the Alchemist should be good at. I haven't really planned out where I'm going past level 8 yet (we're starting at a low level, not sure how far it'll progress), but I'd really like feedback/advice on how to improve the character. Thanks in advance!

Half Orc Mindchemist (28 point buy)
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 8
Favored Class: Alchemist (boost Grenade damage every other level through Favored Class Alternative)
Sacred Tatoo Alternate Racial Trait
Mindchemist gives the excellent Cognatogen at level 1, and gives you an extra +5-7 on every Knowledge check at level 2 in the place of Poison Use. I'm not going to waste Standard Actions to apply Poison midfight, and since I keep the Poison Resistance/Immunity progression (and have a good Fort Save) I'm not worried about affecting myself with the Out of Combat botches.

Feat Progression is likely going to be Splash Weapon Mastery (1), Discovery (3), (5), (7). For the most part I'll be trading my Feats for Discoveries (or Extra Bombs, because limiting core class features to X/day is fun. Wait. No, the opposite of that). It's easy to hit on a Touch Attack with a decent BAB, so Precise/Point Blank aren't worth it, and Rapid Shot will run me out of Bombs really, really quickly. My bombs are all Ranged Touch Attacks, and if I'm worried about it, I can just target a grid Intersection (AC: 5) to force splash damage/secondary effects on everyone. I can't Metamagic, all the item crafting I care about is given to me as a class feature, and the Discoveries are just too good when compared with Feats for this build.

Discovery Progression will go Smoke Bomb (2), Stink Bomb (3), Tanglefoot Bomb (4), Precise Bombs (5), Infusion (6), Dispelling Bomb (7), Confusion Bomb (8), Extra Bombs (9).

Tanglefoot Bomb can be used in conjunction with other Bomb Discoveries, and Entangled is a decent debuff - every bomb I throw is now Reflex Save or suck, since I can now kite forever, and Reflex saves are easy ones to target. Smoke and Stink Bombs give me access to actual useful spells usable (CL + Int Modifier)/day, which is awesome. Stinking Cloud only lasts a Round which is annoying (since I find the idea of Tanglefooting someone in a Stinking Cloud funny), but it's still Stinking Cloud. I want Precise Bombs as otherwise there's a good chance I'll kill any of our melee. Infusion allows me to actually be useful at buffing, which is good since my Extraction spell list is mostly self buffs, and is pretty bad. Dispelling Bomb isnt' "good" but being able to Dispel on demand is alright, and it the other useful effect of removing all the damage on my bombs, allowing me to throw down a Fog Cloud at the grid I'm standing on, or to Entangle a target we need alive. It can also be used with other Bomb effects. Confusion Bomb is where it's at. Confusion Bomb is absurdly good. Save or Di....wait, Direct Hits don't give a save against it as written?!?! :smalleek:. Sorry make that just die.

"A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist."

I haven't really planned anything out past 8-9, but if anyone has any good suggestions and ways to improve the character please let me know. Thanks in advance!

Edit with some of the ideas I'm considering

Ability Focus [Bomb]: (It's ambiguous if this applies to all the Bombs I craft, but if it does it's worth a Feat as early as possible).

Point Blank Shot --> Precise Shot --> Improved Precise Shot: Yeah, it's a really feat intensive chain, but it's also strong. Bullseye Shot, especially if I don't take Fast Bombs, is also worth a thought.

Rapid Shot + Fast Bombs: Initially, I was all over this. Then I realized that I only get (CL + Int Mod)/day Bombs, and dumping out a quarter of my total Bombs per round is going to be really crappy really quickly. Still, it's worth considering, especially for later levels.

Frost/Explosive/Acid/Shock Bomb: I'm not a nuker. Frost is the only Bomb with anything approaching a decent debuff (Staggered), but it allows a save and only hits a single target. Also note that these Discoveries can't be used with a Smoke/Stink Bomb, which further devalues. Still, Frost might be an option so I can still kill Fire Immune targets.

Strafe Bomb: I really, really want to fit this in somewhere, and could drop Dispelling Bomb for it (although Dispel is such good random utility). With Precise Bombs and Splash Weapon Mastery I can shape the explosions pretty well already, but more sculpting is always nice.

[NamelessNPC]

I'm playing an alchemist in a campaign right now (lvl 19), so here are some things i've learnt.

Confusion bomb does indeed rock. As does Stink bomb. Remember the smoke lasts 1 round, but the nausea lastas 1d4.

Explosive bomb, at low levels, ends encounters with mooks. At about lvl 6 it stops mattering.

Force bomb is terrific. Its damage can't be resisted (which is very important at least with my DM), and very few monsters have high ref saves.

Fast bomb is a must. Even if you don't want to throw 3 bombs every round, sometimes you will have to neutralize a lot of guys.

I chose the normal mutagen. At lower lvls it just gave me some attack bonus and AC, but eventually (lvl 14, when it starts lasting hr/lvl) it becomes an all day DEX and CON boost that makes the difference.

I didn't get strafe bomb, and I don't think it would be too good. Same with tanglefoot bomb: remember it doesn't affect huge creatures (I think the last large enemy we faced was at lvl 6; your DM may be different)

[mint]

Bottled Ooze is hilarious and good. Take it!

[Dyllan]

Carry some Alchemical items to help with blasting. Acid flask is the cheapest way to go. You get to add your Int mod to damage and splash damage for all splash weapons you throw, not just your bombs, and the splash damage on alchemical items doesn't allow a save, so they can be very powerful.

Unfortunately, unless your DM house rules it, quick draw doesn't work on alchemical items (stupid change, imo). So while you can pull ingredients, mix bombs and throw them super fast with quick bombs, in the same amount of time you can't simply pull pre-made alchemical weapons and throw them. Still, if you use every move action you're not otherwise using to pull one out, you can mix some alchemical items in with your bombs when you need more damage, but not necessarily more control effects, and make your bombs last that much longer.

Sounds like your character is actually pretty well built. I second the suggestion of Force Bomb. Nothing's immune, it can hit incorporeal... too many situations where it'll be the only bomb you have that's effective. If you have any party members who can cast dispel magic, I'd consider switching it for that. Of course, I don't know how liberally your DM uses combat buffs on NPCs...

[Menteith]

@NamelessNPC


Tanglefoot Bomb; still applies the Entangled debuff to everyone in the splash radius regardless of their size, whether or not it affects the primary target, and who doesn't like free AOE control? I'm not sure what kind of enemies we'll be facing in this campaign, but it affects a pretty wide range, and applies no damage penalty. Fast Bombs will certainly end up in the build at some point, but Alchemists are REALLY Feat/Discovery intensive, as I'm learning. I might hold off on it until lvl. 15 for the next Iterative, but I'll take it eventually.

The Dexterity is solid off the Mutagen, but you have to remember that the Cognatogen benefits from the same progression (provided you pick up the Discoveries at 12 and 16). I take ability damage at the end of it, but it still gives me more Bomb/day, increases the save DC of all of my Extracts and Bombs, and doesn't give me a hit to Wisdom (which is far and away my most vulnerable stat, with the crappy Will progression). Mindchemist also gives you Intx2 as a bonus on all Knowledge and Memory checks (+15 on Arcana and Nature, +12 on all of the others at level 2), which lets me identify most monsters immediately. Can't Poison my Bombs.

@Mind
But it burns my Extracts to use it. I can't find a list of Oozes anywhere, and I might be missing something, but the min. level you can pick this up at is level 6, which means you're summoning (at best) a CR2 Ooze with your standard action + 2nd level extract. I'm burning most of my Extracts on either handing out Enlarge Persons/Random Buffs for our melee to use on their turns to maximize our action economy, or leaving my Extract slots open all day for random uses (Like Disguise Self, Comprehend Languages, Ant Haul, CLW to save our Wand charges at the end of the day, Jump, Invisibility, etc). I'm using my Extracts as out of combat utility, and with how few I get already don't want to use them on Summons in combat.

@Dyllan
I'm probably going to take Force Bomb sometime; bear in mind this build is only loosely plotted to around level 8-9, and that Force Bomb has a min. level of 8 (and it can't beat out Confusion Bomb).

What does everyone think of Breath Weapon Bomb? Yeah, it can't be used with Stink/Force Bomb, but it doesn't provoke an AoO if you do it in melee, and forces a Direct Hit on everyone in a 15' Cone (Meaning you can Mass Confuse).

[mint]

Here are oozes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes).
They have some redundancy with all the discoveries you're taking for control. A lot of fun though.
And seriously, saving extracts so you don't need to spend wand charges? Really?

[Menteith]

Here are oozes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes).
They have some redundancy with all the discoveries you're taking for control. A lot of fun though.
And seriously, saving extracts so you don't need to spend wand charges? Really?

Thanks! Giving them a look now.

The CLW stuff is more - "alright, we're camping now, burn the extracts so we save trivial money," and not for anything else. The other benefits (Like giving out True Strike to your team, or Enlarge Person to everyone who wants it) take up a fairly large chunk of my Extracts/day. The rest of them I don't love spending, because I lose a lot of flexibility once I run out of them - the out of combat abilities of an Alchemist aren't nearly as strong as, say, a Wizard, but I still can solve a wide range of OOC issues - if I have the extract slots. Also eats a Discovery, which is unfortunate - I've never run a character who was more feat/discovery hungry. So many options!

[kestrel404]

Are you allows any 3.5 material? Because it sounds like Knowledge Devotion would help you out a lot.
Meh, that's all I've got.

[Menteith]

Are you allows any 3.5 material? Because it sounds like Knowledge Devotion would help you out a lot.
Meh, that's all I've got.

Porting feats from 3.5 is on a case by case. That's a great idea, since I can fairly easily net a 25+ on every trained Knowledge check. Alchemists pick up Arcana and Nature as class skills - I haven't used KD before, what other Knowledge is the most beneficial? The Planes?