Dwarven Urgosh and Shields

[missmvicious]

Can I use a Light Shield and a Dwarven Urgosh as long as I don't attack with my off-hand?

It's a two-handed, double weapon, yeah. But I don't have to use it as a double weapon if I don't want to, and the rules for Light Shields say I can hold something in my shield hand as long as I don't attack with it.

I have to hold the Urgosh with two hands, but I'm assuming that the off-hand is only working as a stabilizer. At which point, it would really only be holding the pommel end of the axe... not so much swinging with it.

Based on the image of the Dwarven Defender in DMG, pg 186, they seem to have intended for this to be possible, because he's using a Wooden Shield (theoretically a light one) and wielding an Urgosh. And I like that imagery.

It would be easy enough to fit it into my character's background... a tough Dwarven chick in a stereotypically patriarchal society who wants to be a Dwarven Defender one day, but her clan frowns on the idea... thinking she should become a Cloistered Cleric or NPC Crafter or something. This makes her question the status quo of her fellow clansmen and becomes Neutral Good, and seeks the Fighter Adventurer path... ironically steering her further away from the Defender PrC (since DDs have to be some kind of Lawful). In the end, she could either find peace within herself and acceptance amongst the clan, or a bitterness could brew in her that turns her prejudiced and even spiteful towards all Dwarves (perhaps a dip into a Neutral Evil subplot for a few levels while she comes to terms with her self-loathing?)

Here's to hoping it's possible... *crosses fingers*

Okay, Playground... what's the ruling?

[MesiDoomstalker]

If you use only one head of a double weapon, is it automatically 2-handed or is it possible to use it 1-handed? If you have to use a single head as a 2-hander, you can't use a shield and still keep its AC. I'm fairly sure you can use a double weapon as either TWF, 2-handed, or 1-hand so you can use the shield and gain the benefit of the shield as long as you use it 1-handed.

[missmvicious]

I can use it one-handed? I didn't even know that was possible!

I assume there's a penalty. What's the penalty for using the Urgosh one-handed?

[Amphetryon]

If you use only one head of a double weapon, is it automatically 2-handed or is it possible to use it 1-handed? If you have to use a single head as a 2-hander, you can't use a shield and still keep its AC. I'm fairly sure you can use a double weapon as either TWF, 2-handed, or 1-hand so you can use the shield and gain the benefit of the shield as long as you use it 1-handed.

I cannot recall a method of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand in 3.5, off the top of my head. Source?

[Essence_of_War]

I cannot recall a method of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand in 3.5, off the top of my head. Source?

I don't think there is one either.

From the srd:


Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

Emphasis mine.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I can use it one-handed? I didn't even know that was possible!

I assume there's a penalty. What's the penalty for using the Urgosh one-handed?


I cannot recall a method of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand in 3.5, off the top of my head. Source?

Let me rephrase. When I say "1-handed" I don't mean holding it in one hand, I mean getting 1x str to damage and 1:1 Power Attack return. So what I mean is you hold it in 2 hands, one of them being the shield arm, but getting the benefit and consequences of using a weapon 1-handed. Not sure where I heard you could do that, but thats how my group has done since 3e. So I admit it may be a houserule.

EDIT: ^ that is what I'm refering too and I fail at explaining it.

[missmvicious]

Oh. Yeah... This is a short, sweet, simple campaign with Core books and only RAW. DM wants to keep it simple because it's only a gap filler until everyone gets back in town from holiday vacations/college finals/whatevs. If it turns out to be fun, then it'll be our patch campaign on days when sessions get cancelled.

So... back to using it with a Light Shield.

Can I?

[Jeraa]

First, it is urgrosh, not urgosh.


Based on the image of the Dwarven Defender in DMG, pg 186, they seem to have intended for this to be possible, because he's using a Wooden Shield (theoretically a light one) and wielding an Urgosh. And I like that imagery.

That is not an urgrosh. The pommel end is not pointy enough to be a piercing weapon. That is probably a dwarven waraxe.


A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

But a medium-sized creature still can not wield a medium-sized urgrosh in one hand. It is a two-handed weapon. That sentence is only for wielding a double weapon designed for a creature of a smaller size then you. (A small two handed weapon is a 1-handed weapon for medium creatures.) It is made clear when you look at the PHB, not the SRD, as the SRD removes all examples.


A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand (such as a human wielding a Small two-bladed sword) can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.


So... back to using it with a Light Shield.

Can I?

Not with a medium sized urgrosh. You would have to use a small-sized urgrosh, but then you could not use it as a double weapon. You can not use the hand holding a light shield to wield a weapon, and you have to wield a two handed weapon with, well, two hands.

[missmvicious]

Ok. :smallfrown:

I'll switch to the Dwarven Waraxe, then. It'll save me some starting GP, and give me a d10 to roll with, at least.

[Gwendol]

You could wield it non-proficient though.

[ericgrau]

The end of the above quoted rules text seems to say that you can wield it in one hand (and so put a shield in the other), however you can only use one head of the weapon in any given round and can't use it as a double weapon. So it can be done, though a waraxe would usually make more sense.

[Amphetryon]

The end of the above quoted rules text seems to say that you can wield it in one hand (and so put a shield in the other), however you can only use one head of the weapon in any given round and can't use it as a double weapon. So it can be done, though a waraxe would usually make more sense.
As indicated in the quote from the extended text in the PHb - as opposed to the truncated verbiage of the SRD - that's only true if you're using a weapon that's a size smaller than the wielder (or more, theoretically, though some weirdness happens there).

[Hiro Protagonest]

As indicated in the quote from the extended text in the PHb - as opposed to the truncated verbiage of the SRD - that's only true if you're using a weapon that's a size smaller than the wielder (or more, theoretically, though some weirdness happens there).

Yes, I believe the PHB adds something like "such as a large creature wielding a medium urgrosh".

[ericgrau]

<Pulls out PHB> I find no such text. Maybe someone can point me to the rule in some other section? EDIT: Nevermind, found it in the general rules for double weapons.

[bluthunda]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monkey_Grip_(3.5e_Feat)
Monkey Grip allows you to weild a weapon one size category higher or 2-Handed weapons as 1-handed weapons with a -2 attack penalty

[supermonkeyjoe]

Urgrosh, Dwarven

A dwarven urgrosh is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The urgrosh’s axe head is a slashing weapon that deals 1d8 points of damage. Its spear head is a piercing weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage. You can use either head as the primary weapon. The other is the off-hand weapon. A creature wielding a dwarven urgrosh in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

If you use a ready action to set an urgrosh against a charge, you deal double damage if you score a hit against a charging character. If you use an urgrosh against a charging character, the spear head is the part of the weapon that deals damage.

Dwarves treat dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons.

I've always taken this to mean that you can wield it as a one handed weapon and only attack with one end. Kinda like Gandalf using his staff as a one-handed weapon in the LOTR films

[Yuki Akuma]

or 2-Handed weapons as 1-handed weapons with a -2 attack penalty

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/SnowDemonAkuma/windmills.jpg

MONKEY GRIP DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

(It lets you wield a weapon one size category higher. That's it. It does not let you wield a two-handed weapon in one hand!)


I've always taken this to mean that you can wield it as a one handed weapon and only attack with one end. Kinda like Gandalf using his staff as a one-handed weapon in the LOTR films

Then you've always taken this wrong, because that only refers to a Large creature using a Medium urgrosh.

Gandalf is an angel and therefore superhuman, he should not be used as an example for anything.

[Amphetryon]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monkey_Grip_(3.5e_Feat)
Monkey Grip allows you to weild a weapon one size category higher or 2-Handed weapons as 1-handed weapons with a -2 attack penalty

The link goes to "no such page", and the second use of Monkey Grip you've listed went away when it was further nerfed updated from 3.0 into 3.5.