I can't stand it anymore(Advice needed)(gaming relevant)

[Starwulf]

Ok, so here is the prelude: As some of you know(those who have ever participated in a Diablo 3 thread at least), I'm on a 26.4k dial-up internet connection. Now, that really wouldn't be as awful as it sounds(really, besides downloading large files, it's not that horrible), except for ONE thing: My internet connection hasn't worked properly for nearly a year now. I frequently have to switch my internet connection settings throughout a normal day just so I can get the few sites I regularly visit to work. I've tried contacting my ISP multiple times for help(it wasn't always like this, obviously), but they have repeatedly told me it's not on their end, despite the fact that I have done all that is humanly possible to make sure it's not on my end, including: buying a brand new modem, doing a complete system wipe and re-install, calling my phone company to make sure there is nothing wrong with my line, and switching out the cords that connect to my modem to the phone jack.

So, I'm fed up with it. I can't stand it any longer. The only issue, is my ONLY option, is to switch to a Satellite internet connection through Dish Network(Since I use them for my TV), and I've heard many bad things about satellite internet(here is where the gaming forum comes into play): I've heard that trying to play online games with a Satellite internet connection is WORSE then playing on a dial-up connection due to virtually any inclement weather(including the wind blowing) dropping the connection. Is that true? My TV does go out when we have fairly bad weather, but it's not AWFUL(like, some wind/rain/snow won't knock it out). Also, the speed only goes up to 256k/s(10x faster then my dial-up), and there is a hard cap of 7.5 Gigs for download(though, to be honest, that doesn't bother me THAT much, considering I certainly don't download 7.5 gigs in a month now, and normal internet usage does NOT eat up that much bandwidth).

My only sole issue, is the gaming part. With Diablo 3 coming out in the fairly near future, and Guild Wars 2 and Tera(Not sure if that's it's name, but it's a Fantasy MMO that looks quite good), I will be using it for online gaming, and while I can't reliably load web-pages or download, I still seem to be able to connect to stuff like Diablo 2 and Starcraft with no major issues.

So, would it be worth it for me to finally bite the bullet, ditch my land-line and Dial-up internet(saving me 45 a month) and shelling out 49.99 a month for Satellite internet through Dish network? will I be happy, or just switching to a different, but equally annoying amount of frustration?

[sucatraps]

Regarding 7.5 gigs, remember that stuff like Youtube and Streams eat into that. Games use fairly small amounts, but use it nonetheless. My family has three internet-capable computers, and normal use for us is about 50 gigs. I know people who go through 40 on their own, and that's without torrenting anything in a given month. It's probably pay to get something like networx to see just how much you actually do use through a typical week, and extrapolate from there.

[Starwulf]

Regarding 7.5 gigs, remember that stuff like Youtube and Streams eat into that. Games use fairly small amounts, but use it nonetheless. My family has three internet-capable computers, and normal use for us is about 50 gigs. I know people who go through 40 on their own, and that's without torrenting anything in a given month. It's probably pay to get something like networx to see just how much you actually do use through a typical week, and extrapolate from there.

See, that's part of the problem, as I can't reliably figure out how much I use, because of the issues with my Dial-up(also, I can't use YouTube and don't stream TV shows because of my dial-up). Honestly, I don't foresee it as to much of an issue, simply because I don't really have all that much interest in YouTube, and I TiVo all of my shows and watch them on TV(not fond of the idea of watching TV on my (comparatively) dinky computer monitor. All I'm going to be using it for is to surf the few sites I regularly visit(Here, Bethsoft forums, Gamefaqs, Echo Bazaar, and Kingdoms), and play Diablo 3 when it comes out, and possibly an MMO once Guild Wars 2 and Tera are released. So while 7.5 gigs is restrictive, it's not like I approach even a 1/10th of that usage now, I can't see it going up THAT much, not when the increase in speed will be so minor.

As I said, my real question is, is how does Satellite internet do with Online gaming, as I've heard many bad things about it(some people I know going so far as to say that Satellite gaming is WORSE then dial-up gaming).

[factotum]

The problem with satellite Internet for online gaming, as I understand it, isn't the bandwidth--it's the latency. You still have to use a conventional dial-up connection to send requests out, AFAIK, and then the stuff that comes back has to go up to the satellite (in geostationary orbit) and back down to you. Lightspeed delays alone in that 44,000-mile round trip will amount to around quarter of a second, so you're looking at ping times well north of 300ms--completely out of the range that makes it practical for online gaming.

Plus, of course, if your dial-up connection doesn't work properly, the satellite one won't either due to the aforementioned requirement to send the request over a dial-up in the first place!

[sucatraps]

I think it was mentioned, though, that everything at his end works fine. Perhaps it wouldn't run into that problem.

The lightspeed delay, though large, is by no means unplayable. Many GitPers (Dogmantra and Byrnbot come to mind immediately) live in the UK and play on NA servers, resulting in 250-350 latency at times.

[Starwulf]

The problem with satellite Internet for online gaming, as I understand it, isn't the bandwidth--it's the latency. You still have to use a conventional dial-up connection to send requests out, AFAIK, and then the stuff that comes back has to go up to the satellite (in geostationary orbit) and back down to you. Lightspeed delays alone in that 44,000-mile round trip will amount to around quarter of a second, so you're looking at ping times well north of 300ms--completely out of the range that makes it practical for online gaming.

Plus, of course, if your dial-up connection doesn't work properly, the satellite one won't either due to the aforementioned requirement to send the request over a dial-up in the first place!

Ahh, that's what I was looking for. I pose this question to you however: I'm pretty damn positive that my internet not working properly is on my ISP side(as I've taken all steps on my side to insure it's not my fault). If I dump my ISP and get Satellite through Dish, the sending out signal won't be routed through the same servers they are now with my current ISP, so I wouldn't(logically) have the same Issues I'm having now, would I?

Also, keep in mind, that I LITERALLY have no other options for internet, whatsoever. No DSL, No Cable, nothing except Satellite and Dial-up. Is the Satellite really a worse choice then my current dial-up with it's absolutely abysmal performance? Honestly, I'm kind of hoping to be convinced to GO with the Satellite(though I am keeping my mind open to every bit of information received. If the majority of posters think satellite is a terrible idea, I guess I"ll just suffer with my ****ty dial-up).

[Togath]

Don't go with satelite, if I remember correctly it's dishnetwork that has the class action lawsuits against them in most of the U.S., which were started by the goverent, their internet company(clearwire) is just as sleazy and has class action lawsuits as well.
DO NOT go with satelite, you'll have a better internet connection using dial-up(the kind of connection you generally end up with one of those is slower then dial-up, so stick with dial-up, you'll have faster internet)

[GungHo]

I've heard that trying to play online games with a Satellite internet connection is WORSE then playing on a dial-up connection due to virtually any inclement weather(including the wind blowing) dropping the connection. Is that true? My TV does go out when we have fairly bad weather, but it's not AWFUL(like, some wind/rain/snow won't knock it out).
Not really. If you have a good, stable installation for the dish and it doesn't get blown off by few degrees by wind, your TV and internet will be fine. That being said, TV signals require less consistency than internet signals, so you may rubberband a little bit during storms. Some people swear by hydrophobic coatings like Pam or Rainex or those plastic covers to keep water and snow from accumulating, but I throw that into the same hooey pile as people saying green markers make your CDs sound better.

[Anteros]

Why not try another dial up company first? Most have free trials, and if the problem persists then you'll know it's on your end.

[Airk]

To sortof take Anteros question to it's logical conclusion, have you tried calling up the tech support for your ISP and informing/browbeating them with the fact that you will drop them if they don't do something about this problem?

Edit: Also, I had no idea Western Maryland was such a desolate wasteland.

[Starwulf]

To sortof take Anteros question to it's logical conclusion, have you tried calling up the tech support for your ISP and informing/browbeating them with the fact that you will drop them if they don't do something about this problem?

Edit: Also, I had no idea Western Maryland was such a desolate wasteland.

It is in the rural areas ^^ The Nearest town, Hancock, which is a mere 8 miles away has Cable and DSL available, but once you get a mile or two outside of town limits, coverage ends. I hear it's even worse the farther west you go(ie: Into true Mountainous Maryland). I live on top of a mountain, and I know of at least two petitions that have gone around on the mountain asking Verizon and Comcast to extend service out here, but it's not happened, and as far as I know, there are no plans for them to do so in the immediate future.

It's hard to "threaten" to drop them when I can't even get past the freaking secretary. The last 6 times I've called I've been transferred to an office where no-one has been in or available, I've left a message and not gotten a call-back yet >< Honestly, I've kinda given up on pursuing the issue farther with them, they obviously have no inclination to listen or help. Unfortunately, there really aren't many Dial-up options around here, since it's only the outlying rural areas that are affected by lack of high-speed. There is one out of state but I've heard you get charged more for dialing out of state, and I"m not interested in something like AOL(does that even exist anymore?) or Earthwhatever(buddy of mine used that up until the last 8 months and he hated it).

[GungHo]

I'm trying to imagine what an Appalchian version of Peggy from the Discover Card commercials would sound like.

[Balain]

It's been awhile since I heard anything about Satellite internet. What I did hear about it a few years ago is,

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LostEnder]

I was looking into similar issues on a little larger scale scale (net access for a business laptop in the sahara, yeah...) and there are a couple other options that might be worth mentioning.

First, it's not going to be cheap. Most anything you do to improve from dialup is going to cost you, in terms of time or dollars or both.

That said... cellular broadband. You said that you're on a mountain in MD yes? You ought to be able to get a reasonable price on unlimited bandwidth from any major cell network, and the PC adapter cards are common, and available from the providers in some cases. There are also antennas to boost your cell signal if needed, but I'm not sure what effect they would have on latency.

There's also the possibility of wireless bridging from a location that does have traditional broadband. This would maybe be feasible, but you'd have to build towers for it. I know the Aironet and Canopy bridges had reach of 10+ miles, but it's been a good while since I looked at that stuff. I know they weren't cheap, like $1000+ though. Maybe if some of your neighbors went in with you?

[Airk]

It is in the rural areas ^^ The Nearest town, Hancock, which is a mere 8 miles away has Cable and DSL available, but once you get a mile or two outside of town limits, coverage ends. I hear it's even worse the farther west you go(ie: Into true Mountainous Maryland). I live on top of a mountain, and I know of at least two petitions that have gone around on the mountain asking Verizon and Comcast to extend service out here, but it's not happened, and as far as I know, there are no plans for them to do so in the immediate future.

It's hard to "threaten" to drop them when I can't even get past the freaking secretary. The last 6 times I've called I've been transferred to an office where no-one has been in or available, I've left a message and not gotten a call-back yet >< Honestly, I've kinda given up on pursuing the issue farther with them, they obviously have no inclination to listen or help. Unfortunately, there really aren't many Dial-up options around here, since it's only the outlying rural areas that are affected by lack of high-speed. There is one out of state but I've heard you get charged more for dialing out of state, and I"m not interested in something like AOL(does that even exist anymore?) or Earthwhatever(buddy of mine used that up until the last 8 months and he hated it).

So they...basically don't have technical support at all? Ouch. That said, it seems like doing a google search for "Dial up internet maryland" turns up a pretty good number of what look like viable results.

THAT said, I do think LostEnder's suggestion of Cellular Broadband to be an intriguing one. It's not going to be latency free or anything, but it's sure going to beat satellite.

[GungHo]

That said... cellular broadband. You said that you're on a mountain in MD yes? You ought to be able to get a reasonable price on unlimited bandwidth from any major cell network, and the PC adapter cards are common, and available from the providers in some cases. There are also antennas to boost your cell signal if needed, but I'm not sure what effect they would have on latency.
We have plenty of folks here at work that use MiFi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiFi) in remote areas with success. However, no idea how it works out for gaming. I imagine if you are in an area that's covered by 4G, that's going to be a hell of a lot better and more reliable than 3G.

[darkjubs]

The problem with satellite Internet for online gaming, as I understand it, isn't the bandwidth--it's the latency. You still have to use a conventional dial-up connection to send requests out, AFAIK, and then the stuff that comes back has to go up to the satellite (in geostationary orbit) and back down to you. Lightspeed delays alone in that 44,000-mile round trip will amount to around quarter of a second, so you're looking at ping times well north of 300ms--completely out of the range that makes it practical for online gaming.

Plus, of course, if your dial-up connection doesn't work properly, the satellite one won't either due to the aforementioned requirement to send the request over a dial-up in the first place!

As someone who used to have satellite, I can confirm that it's worse than this. They transfer both ways by satellite now. My ping times were usually in the 800-1000ms range. Most games were impossible to play. Surprisingly though, you can play WoW decently well if you aren't interested in high end raiding or pvp. The other major issue with satellite is that they impose very strict bandwidth limits, we were limited to 200 MB/day. Definitely would not recommend it unless there is absolutely nothing else available.

[Grif]

We have plenty of folks here at work that use MiFi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiFi) in remote areas with success. However, no idea how it works out for gaming. I imagine if you are in an area that's covered by 4G, that's going to be a hell of a lot better and more reliable than 3G.

Speaking of 3G, it works for gaming, if you don't mind the occasional latency spikes and what-not ingame. Of course, I'm speaking from one who actually used 3G in Warcraft III and to a limited extent, Counter-Strike. I have no experience in newer games though.

4G as GungHo said, would probably outperform it by miles, but I would think reliability would remain a problem.

[Anteros]

I was looking into similar issues on a little larger scale scale (net access for a business laptop in the sahara, yeah...) and there are a couple other options that might be worth mentioning.

First, it's not going to be cheap. Most anything you do to improve from dialup is going to cost you, in terms of time or dollars or both.

That said... cellular broadband. You said that you're on a mountain in MD yes? You ought to be able to get a reasonable price on unlimited bandwidth from any major cell network, and the PC adapter cards are common, and available from the providers in some cases. There are also antennas to boost your cell signal if needed, but I'm not sure what effect they would have on latency.

There's also the possibility of wireless bridging from a location that does have traditional broadband. This would maybe be feasible, but you'd have to build towers for it. I know the Aironet and Canopy bridges had reach of 10+ miles, but it's been a good while since I looked at that stuff. I know they weren't cheap, like $1000+ though. Maybe if some of your neighbors went in with you?

Those "unlimited data plans" from cellular networks are rarely actually unlimited when you read the fine print. I've worked for ATT, Verizon, and Sprint before and it was not entirely uncommon for people to come in with literally hundreds of dollars on a single bill in fees for exceeding their "unlimited" data allotment. If you do decide to go with this route, do your research carefully.

[olelia]

Currently I have satellite through Dish, which is secretly Hughes Net. I currently play LOTRO online with general success BUT I constantly run anywhere between 1.2k to 2k Latency. Recently I've been unable to play in the evenings because for whatever reason the internet slows to a crawl. Overall I'd say you can play any MMO on satellite, especially if you willing to spend more for the higher speed/data packages. One of the MAJOR cons though is on my current plan, which is somewhere around $70 a month, is the fact that I am restricted to about 340 megabytes a day which mostly means that patching games can sometimes be a nightmare. Unfortunately the only way around it is there is a free download period between 2AM-7AM.

Hopefully this answers some questions, but if you have anything super specific I can try to answer them.

[Anteros]

Currently I have satellite through Dish, which is secretly Hughes Net. I currently play LOTRO online with general success BUT I constantly run anywhere between 1.2k to 2k Latency. Recently I've been unable to play in the evenings because for whatever reason the internet slows to a crawl. Overall I'd say you can play any MMO on satellite, especially if you willing to spend more for the higher speed/data packages. One of the MAJOR cons though is on my current plan, which is somewhere around $70 a month, is the fact that I am restricted to about 340 megabytes a day which mostly means that patching games can sometimes be a nightmare. Unfortunately the only way around it is there is a free download period between 2AM-7AM.

Hopefully this answers some questions, but if you have anything super specific I can try to answer them.

I can't imagine trying to do anything competitive at 2k latency in a mmo. That would be horrible.

[olelia]

Which is the exact reason why I do not. I generally don't group at all for the sake of the fellow players. I simply play it almost as a single player game, which doesn't bother me but I would imagine it would completely defeat the purpose of some's playing style.