feedback on a 'small' melee tweak

[share and enjoy]

Hullo so I was contemplating what the implications would be if you were to scrap the idea of full round attacks as they are now and instead split it so that you can make attacks at the two highest bonuses as a standard action (so eg a lvl full bab swings a +20 and a +15)
I'm wondering if this is a workable Idea of if it's horrific

I don't think that there's much problem with twf, flurry and rapid shot just using the high bonuses and dropping the low ones ie
a pf monk would have +18 +18 +13 +13 (+15 +15 +15 +10 for 3.5)
twf on mid bab would be +13 +13 +8 (+8 for improved would probably scrap greater because who hits on a +3 at 20 anyway)

I'm wondering based on other peoples greater experience with the game if it's worth including the low bab attacks on a second standard action so you attack at +20 +15 then at +10 +5 or if it should just be left as +20 +15 then again at +20 +15 it's not so horrible for full babers but on a mid it's only a +5 I suppose this would emphasise the idea of mid babers as mobile attackers

obviously it would provide nothing to spell casting just 'mundane' attacks
Problems I foresee:
- codzilla exploiting but then again their already rather broken already it's not going to matter if they're a little more broken if they're going to be broken anyway; as far as I can see it helps non-casters a fair bit.

- attacking being riskier run up to someone make two attacks then have them do the same before running away so it may not do much more than increase the damage that melee does to each other

- doesn't help people get any closer to wizards and their ilk so it doesn't give a huge amount of help in terms of mundane v wizards.


SO what I'm looking for is feedback firstly on if this is just a waste of time and secondly if the second standard action should be the same again or low bab attacks

thank-you for your time

[Just to Browse]

A full attack as a move action wouldn't actually be too bad. A solid round of attacks along with a move action makes melee useful instead of obsolete. They did that in Legend.

If that seems like too much, one extra attack would do fine. The abusive things are still abused, but the weak things are better.

[Veklim]

Not entirely sure whether this is a good idea or not. A full attack as standard is a nice idea which I've seen innumerable times in one format or another, but I've never been convinced that this is actually a good idea. As far as it not affecting wizards, I could name you Ten***'s Transformation and arms of the garillion as 2 spells which would make this change a great thing for wizards, but that's just specific builds, not the class as a whole.

...because who hits on a +3 at 20 anyway... I do. Frequently. Because the +3 is only the BASE modifier, that attack should be up towards +20 in total for a 20th level fighter, say what you will about melee at higher levels, the one thing which is always true is that they're bloody good at hitting things (just so long as they can actually hurt/see/reach what it is they're hitting).

[Gullintanni]

Not entirely sure whether this is a good idea or not. A full attack as standard is a nice idea which I've seen innumerable times in one format or another, but I've never been convinced that this is actually a good idea. As far as it not affecting wizards, I could name you Ten***'s Transformation and arms of the garillion as 2 spells which would make this change a great thing for wizards, but that's just specific builds, not the class as a whole.


I think I'd make it an ACF. Something like:

"Martial Superiority
Prerequisite:

BAB: +1
Replaces: Characters taking Martial Superiority lose one level of spell casting ability from their highest level spell casting class.

Over years of careful study, you have mastered the art of combat, and are able to make successive strikes more efficiently than others in combat. You may use the Full Attack Action as a Standard Action no more than once each round.

The path of Martial Superiority is a demanding path that requires constant refinement and dedication. If a characters Base Attack Bonus derived from class levels is ever equal to 3/4 class level or less, the character ceases to gain any benefit from the Martial Superiority ACF. Monks and Psychic Warriors with no levels in any other base class are not subject to this restriction. Monks/Psychic Warrior multi-classes are also not subject to this restriction."

The result is that Wizards, Rogues, Clerics and other primary casters don't benefit from Martial Superiority. Gishes, on the other hand, can still take advantage. Monks are specifically called out so they can have nice things. Basically, this is a boost to dedicated melee characters, that doesn't also help Divine Powering Clerics or Wizards. And the additional caster level loss makes it unattractive for an enterprising Cleric to try and add a level in a full BAB class to try and get a +16 overall BAB.

Rogues can take advantage if they need to by sinking a few levels into a full BAB class, like Swashbuckler.

[Veklim]

Now that's coming closer to the mark, aye. I can see this making more sense and being more easily implemented than a lot of the options I've seen.

[sengmeng]

I think a feat for full attacking as a standard action would be reasonable. Probably require Mobility and BAB +6 as prereqs. I see TWF rogues being the biggest customers for it, since the melee hitters all seem to want the PA/charge/pounce/cheese.

[Anachronity]

I'm toying with the idea of a stat called "Enhanced Mobility"

Your Enhanced Mobility rating is equal to half of your Dexterity modifier * 5 plus an additional 5 ft., you may move a distance equal to your Enhanced Mobility rating before making a full attack. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal and can never be more than half your normal movespeed.

I then altered the Mobility feat so that it increases your EM rating by 5 ft. It also allows your EM rating to reach a maximum equal to your full movespeed rather than half your movespeed and prevents attacks of opportunity caused by EM movement.

This quite obviously favors dual-wielders, however. It doesn't really help the heavy hitters at all. Maybe make your EM rating equal to your BAB rounded down? That would still allow dexterity characters an advantage with the mobility feat but wouldn't exclude Str fighters.