What do you think of this Blade of Orien rework?

[Chaosblade]

I'm not sure what to think of it, myself. It sounds really cool, but maybe even borderline OP? My plan is actually to use a whip and throwing daggers, all with Greater Dislocation.

Here. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Blade_of_Orien_(Fix)_(3.5e_Prestige_Class))
or
There. (http://tiny.cc/osyyo\)

[Big Fau]

I'm not sure what to think of it, myself. It sounds really cool, but maybe even borderline OP? My plan is actually to use a whip and throwing daggers, all with Greater Dislocation.

Here. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Blade_of_Orien_(Fix)_(3.5e_Prestige_Class))
or
There. (http://tiny.cc/osyyo\)

You kinda made it worse. The Blade of Orien, as written, is capable of taking a Full Attack as a move action, multiple times per encounter (or even per round). That ability alone is one of the greatest gifts you could give to a melee character.

[Chaosblade]

Um... No it doesn't? The 10th level ability allows it to make a full attack after teleporting, but keep this in mind:

The capstone can only be reached by character level 16.

The Quicken Dragonmark feat, taken once, allows the use of the standard Dimension Leap, at full range (Swift Leap halves it if you use it as a move action), and as a swift action.

"Multiple times per round?" Uh yeah, if you have multiple full-attack actions in a round, I guess. But the class never gives that.

And actually the reworked class gives that ability as it's capstone. At anywhere between character level 10-12.

And speaking of Quicken Dragonmark, think about it. The use of Dimension Leap as a Swift Action means you can make a full attack when you land, and doesn't halve your allowed distance. In other words, that one feat is better than the capstone to the whole class, and is available at level one.

[Greenish]

"Multiple times per round?" Uh yeah, if you have multiple move actions in a round, I guess.Fixed that for you.

[Flickerdart]

Eh, if you want to be stacking full attacks per round, you just use Teflammar Shadowlord. Where's the original at?

[Greenish]

Eh, if you want to be stacking full attacks per round, you just use Teflammar Shadowlord. Where's the original at?Dragonmarked.

[Big Fau]

Um... No it doesn't? The 10th level ability allows it to make a full attack after teleporting, but keep this in mind:

The capstone can only be reached by character level 16.

Yes, it comes late. That's why it's a capstone. It is meant to be a very powerful ability.


The Quicken Dragonmark feat, taken once, allows the use of the standard Dimension Leap, at full range (Swift Leap halves it if you use it as a move action), and as a swift action.

Doesn't apply to the capstone, as it refers to an existing class feature that all ready modifies the Dimension Leap SLA.


"Multiple times per round?" Uh yeah, if you have multiple full-attack actions in a round, I guess. But the class never gives that.

It doesn't say "Take a full attack action". It says "Take a full attack after using your Dimension Leap".


And actually the reworked class gives that ability as it's capstone. At anywhere between character level 10-12.

No, it gives you one attack.

And speaking of Quicken Dragonmark, think about it. The use of Dimension Leap as a Swift Action means you can make a full attack when you land, and doesn't halve your allowed distance. In other words, that one feat is better than the capstone to the whole class, and is available at level one.[/QUOTE]

Again, no it doesn't. The feat itself is good, but the capstone allows you to do it at will, multiple times per round. You get up to two Move actions per round, and can use both of them on Dimension Leap. Doing so triggers the capstone twice over, allowing you to make two full attacks. The wording is plain as day.

[Chaosblade]

Yes, it comes late. That's why it's a capstone. It is meant to be a very powerful ability.

"Very powerful ability" or "poorly worded ability?"


Doesn't apply to the capstone, as it refers to an existing class feature that all ready modifies the Dimension Leap SLA.

Um... your point? MY point was that that one feat allows a character to make a telepounce attack (see below) from level one, whereas this class requires you to get to level sixteen first.




1. No, it gives you one attack.

2a. It doesn't say "Take a full attack action". It says "Take a full attack after using your Dimension Leap".

2b. Again, no it doesn't. The feat itself is good, but the capstone allows you to do it at will, multiple times per round. You get up to two Move actions per round, and can use both of them on Dimension Leap. Doing so triggers the capstone twice over, allowing you to make two full attacks. The wording is plain as day.

Actually, it says "Whenever you use your swift leap ability to dimension leap as a move action, you can make a full attack at the end of your leap."

Regardless, this is at level 16, and you can only have about seven of these a day by that level. Good for melee nova, I suppose. But how many times an encounter do you change targets? And how many encounters a day do you normally have?


And besides, the rework has about the same wording, anyway.

When the Blade uses Swift Leap (a move action), she may make a full attack

Thus, the rework could, theoretically, do exactly what you've just defended the original for. Not that I personally agree it's RAI, but the fact remains. I personally read it as a "Teleporting Pounce" ability, which it is. And most other classes that get pounce, also get it around CL 11. If you want to throw on the "two tele-pounces per turn" thing, more power to ya.

I suppose it's cool and all, and it's nice that you've pointed it out to me, but I find the idea incredibly cheesy. (Won't stop me from using it in a pinch, regardless...) The rework is built as a utility class anyway; damage is not the main goal. I find it... odd that out of all the changes made, the one that wasn't actually changed is the only thing anyone has to say anything about. >.>

[Flickerdart]

Homebrew is where people usually post to get feedback on their homebrew. Here in d20, we gripe about the things that are published.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Homebrew is where people usually post to get feedback on their homebrew. Here in d20, we gripe about the things that are published.

God yes.

It's a big "RAW vs RAI vs Nuuut UH!"

As to what Big Fau is saying, if you know magic/programming terms: "IF A, go to B." A is "teleport via whatever" B happens to be "full-attack." As a lot of abilities are about using different types of actions (Quicken Spell/SLA, etc.), and the default assumption is you get One swift, one move, one standard (or swift/"full-round"), this debate crops up.

So, run it at your table however, but, from a strict pseudo-code style implementation, doesn't matter that a "full-round attack" happens in the span of a swift action: you've got a class ability (read, "magic") that does it for you.

And as the golden rule everywhere is, "It's magic, I ain't have to explain carp!"

[Chaosblade]

Gotcha. Luckily, Teleport is still a standard action.

And it's not the stylings of the ability that bothers me. It's the thought of giving someone enough time to think about how to get more move actions in order to do a Nightcrawler Nova around an encounter. My character is only using a whip, but in someone else's hands, say if I actually cared about dealing damage, burning through seven charges of DL with TWF, Speed, etc...

No, don't tempt me. I already have a DPR concept I want to try with pre-errata Weretouched Master and Shifter Druid.