Low-CR undead miniboss?

[Gandariel]

(((SONO FABIO, se giocate con me NON LEGGETE QUESTO!!)))


Today i'll have my party of four (Bard, Factotum, druid and barbarian) go into a cemetery to retrieve a certain item, and they'll have to fight their way in the crypt.
Now, mainly they'll fight skeletons/zombies, but i wanted something cooler in the end, some sort of slightly stronger enemy for the end of the dungeon.

The party is level 2 now.

i know even zombies and skeletons won't be easy for them, that's why i'm asking you for an undead weak enough..

What do you suggest?

[Gwendol]

Shadow perhaps. If they can handle incorporeal.

Otherwise Ghast: it stinks, can paralyze, transmit disease, etc.

Wight might fit the bill but energy drain is harsh. Wraith's seem to be out of their league, and you might as well go with shadow.

[tyckspoon]

I'm not sure what you do want to use, but I would strongly recommend against using an incorporeal. The CRs on those basically assume the party Cleric will be Turning it and the party Wizard will be spamming Magic Missile, those being the only reliable ways a low-level party can affect an incorporeal undead.. seeing as how your party has neither of them, a Shadow is fairly likely to just kill them instead.

[Gandariel]

yes, you're probably right. What about a ghast? it looks quite strong for a lvl 2 party

[Skaven]

Maybe a necropolitan wizard or cleric?

[rekuu]

ghoul with one fighter level?

[DeusMortuusEst]

Maybe a necropolitan wizard or cleric?

I vote for this, along with two skeleton minions perhaps? If you go the cleric route, give it some buffs and let it power up the skeletons.

[Gwendol]

The standard ghast is CR3, which is winnable for a Lvl2 party: remember that CR2 should be an easy encounter.
The ghast has no DR, only 4 HD, but it's stench can be a problem (which they can overcome), and they will have to fear its attacks due to paralysis. Well prepared the team will have no problems beating this thing to death (again).

The problem with caster w. undead minions is that the CR quickly ramps up.

You prabably want at least a level 3 caster (having access to lvl 2 spells), and two human commoner skeletons gives you a CR4 encounter. Now, because the party has to split its efforts between three enemies, and have been weakened by encounters along the way (if I understand the setup correctly) they might be taking on more than they can handle unless the caster is played well below its power level.

[sonofzeal]

I'd just use a larger or more exotic zombie/skelly, possibly with a unique effect attached to it. An Ogre Zombie that can charge ridiculously fast once a minute or so, or maybe an Ogre Skeleton that's on fire and not taking damage from it. Something like that would be awesome and cinematic, moreso than a Ghast or a Wight to me.

[Gwendol]

There's a troll skeleton in the SRD: it has reach, three attacks, and DR/bludgeoning.

I'd say it's a bit tough.

[Gandariel]

The standard ghast is CR3, which is winnable for a Lvl2 party: remember that CR2 should be an easy encounter.
The ghast has no DR, only 4 HD, but it's stench can be a problem (which they can overcome), and they will have to fear its attacks due to paralysis. Well prepared the team will have no problems beating this thing to death (again).


How can the team overcome the stench???

And by the way yes, it will be a small crypt. A couple of encounters first (skeletons and/or zombies), then
-1 ghoul, alone.
-another ghoul, alone.
AND then the Ghast

sounds good?

[Gwendol]

I'd keep it to one ghoul. The DR of the skeletons and zombies already could prove difficult for your team to overcome.

Increase in saves would help with the stench, but I now see the druid will not have access to those nor to gust of wind. Perhaps as a scroll?

[sonofzeal]

I'd recommend against the Ghast. It's fairly deadly for a party of this level if even one or two people have trouble with their Fort saves... and more importantly, the party isn't going to realize how dangerous it is until they're already pretty much screwed.

A good miniboss fight should put fear into the players, but not actually be killing them. The Ghast has the potential to fail at both. This is why I recommended some big skelly/zombie, because the instant the PCs see it, the players will know they're in trouble. A seven foot tall flaming skeleton means trouble... and because it's a miniboss and a "unique" you can play with the stats, raising and lowering the hp depending on how the players are doing, so that it ends up a good challenge. It's intimidating but not likely to TPK, and that's the perfect balance to try and match.

[killem2]

You could have a spawning room every so many rounds that the monsters get larger and larger in numbers to a certain maximum, or perhaps a pre defined total HD of undead.

[Gwendol]

I disagree with SoZ: the ghast is vastly different from the skeletons and zombies, thus provide a completely different threat. The band is only level 2, so a TPK won't hurt too much. Also, being a single boss, it is most likely at least one or two of the players can escape should things go really bad, get help, and save their mates. All in all, a much more memorable experience than going up against yet a skeleton, even if it is a large flaming one.

[Runestar]

On paper, a young white dragon skeleton (using the skeletal dragon template from draconomicon) is cr2...but just humour me and work out its stats? :smallamused:

[JadePhoenix]

I second the skeleton idea. Better yet: add a trap. Something like falling rubble from the ceiling. And they have to fight this skeleton. It's on fire. The exit is blocked. Maybe make it a zombie, because then it only gets one action a round. Make the area cluttered so it cannot charge. Now THAT is a miniboss. It is dangerous (because a Large zombie hits hard for a level 2 party), you can avoid it if you care careful (good positioning and stuff) and you also have to watch out for the environment (falling debris, make it a DC 12~15 Reflex save to avoid 1d6 damage or something like that; give them bonuses depending on where they stand).

Also, check out the bloodhulk from Monster Manual IV. It's made for stuff like this.

[Dsurion]

A "boss" creature my DM once used for a group of us at level 2 was some sort 4-armed zombie (I think it was a zombie, anyway...) who lost limbs whenever it lost a certain portion of HP, but grew them back (regeneration?) as long as it was surrounded by other undead, speed varying with the amount. Its Str, Dex, and HP also increased/decreased with the amount of undead nearby.

Essentially it was a puzzle monster where we had to figure out that killing the minions first was the way to beat it. The guy said he specifically created it this way because he wasn't sure how well we'd do, and the encounter could be adjusted on the fly by adding more undead reinforcements (we were in the courtyard of a castle).

It certainly wasn't something from a Monster Manual or any published book, but I thought it was a really cool, cinematic encounter.

[Gwendol]

It's actually not that impressive, though the 9 HD and 20 AC could be more than a handful for a 2nd level party. The frightful presence DC is 12, which is not that impressive, considering the party has a bard that hopefully should be able to boost their spirits a little.
It's fast and can burrow, which makes it good for hit and run warfare, but on the other hand it lacks intelligence so...

[00dlez]

I'd just use a larger or more exotic zombie/skelly, possibly with a unique effect attached to it.

Perhaps using the Spellstitched (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/spellstitched.shtml) template from Complete Arcane is something you might consider. Essentially it gives the undead some limited spellcasting abilities, which can throw a party off.

Spells like magic missile can ensure that you at least put a little damage on the party early on, or use color spray on the party to knock a few out of the fight for a few rounds.

I would recommend against a low HP boss, though. That barbarian is going to be deadly at low levels, and while it might be fun for the player, the ability to crush a "boss" with a simple above average damage roll isn't great for the climactic feeling a boss fight should have.

[killem2]

Isn't there a flame spell that is in the evocation school, it puts a flame around the target, it won't hurt the person its on, but does hurt anyone who lands melee attacks against it.

[docnessuno]

Human necropolitan lvl3 dread necromancer, with corpsecrafter feat and destruction retribution.
2-3 basic human skeletons with the added bonuses from the dread necromancer's feats.
Should be a CR4/5 (somewhere in-between) encounter, wich is well in-line with the party

[Dr.Epic]

Today i'll have my party of four (Bard, Factotum, druid and barbarian) go into a cemetery to retrieve a certain item, and they'll have to fight their way in the crypt.
Now, mainly they'll fight skeletons/zombies, but i wanted something cooler in the end, some sort of slightly stronger enemy for the end of the dungeon.

The party is level 2 now.

i know even zombies and skeletons won't be easy for them, that's why i'm asking you for an undead weak enough..

What do you suggest?

Zombies and skeletons will be tough for them? Did they roll really low stats or are they first time players? At level one even, they should be able to handle skeletons and zombies. I'm pretty sure those undead were specifically designed for low level encounters.

[Zubrowka74]

A regular zombie covered in brown mold or such :smallbiggrin:

[Gullintanni]

Try a couple of the variant undead from Libris Mortis.

For example, a single Unkillable variant zombie and two Nimble variant skeletons. Nimble variant skeletons have a climb speed equal to their land speed, so have them climb up the ceiling and toss javelins from afar. Meanwhile, the Unkillable zombie (which has improved toughness, and fast healing 5) should be enough of a nuisance on the ground that the small group can harry your party.

[CTrees]

I think I'd go with something like a skeletal centaur. It's different, it's going to be more powerful than they're used to, the manueverability adds an extra something, and it's not something you ever really see. Seems enough to make it memorable.

Throw on some armor/barding, give it an interesting weapon (avoid lances or high crit range weapons at this level - that's a little bit TOO much lethality for a centaur), and you've got a boss for APL 2.

[killem2]

How about a taunting haunt?

Page 82 Monster Manual 4

It seems to be pretty easy to land an attack then its based on chance (50% miss), then, it has a lot of annoying things to keep to lower attack rolls. You can also RP a really annoying foe that taunts them through the entire fight.

Who won't remember:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/tauntinghaunt.gif

THAT lol.

[missmvicious]

Taunting Haunt sounds fun!

For my 2 CP how about this:

1. How about the Gravedigger himself? Maybe he's the "necromancer" who's been raising these things from the dead. An L1 Expert/L2 Adept who bought a scroll from a real Necromancer to raise his dead wife, botched the attempt and created an undead cemetery. Now he kills people who find out so that he doesn't go to prison.

2. Baneguard: CR 2 Monsters of Faerun, pg. 17 (Skeleton w/Magic Missile)

3. Dessicator: CR 2 Libris Mortis, pg. 94 (creepy looking little guy)

4. Dread Warrior: CR 2 Monsters of Faurun, pg 46 (intelligent Zombie... sort of a non-spell-caster version of a Lich, and way lower CR. At least its INT is high enough to monolog to the PCs.)

5. Necrosis Carnex: CR 3 MM4, pg. 104 (gives me the shivers just looking at it)

6. Plague Walker: CR 3 MM4, pg. 120 (the gravedigger could be controlling him)

7. Skin Kite: CR 3 Libris Mortis, pg. 119 (not great, but could at least be a funny visual)

8. Slaymate: CR2 Libris Mortis, pg. 122 (let the PCs hear a haunting nursery rhyme before they see this little abomination shamble up to them.)

9. Wight: CR 3 MM1, pg. 255 (It's a classic. Reduce it's HP if you want to make it less challenging, but it's a standard issue low level mini-boss)

10. Zombie, Bugbear: CR 2, MM1 pg. 267 (a bit forced... but I was so close to 10, I figured I'd toss it in for good measure.)

[MukkTB]

Why is the cemetery teeming with undead? How did it get to be this way? The ideal specific boss monster should be more obvious with these questions answered.

[JaronK]

Well, the lowest level undead character I can think of who might have been making these undead is a Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) Death Master (Dragon Compendium) 3, since that class gets Animate Dead as a second level spell. So why not go with that?

JaronK

[Aegis013]

Well, the lowest level undead character I can think of who might have been making these undead is a Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) Death Master (Dragon Compendium) 3, since that class gets Animate Dead as a second level spell. So why not go with that?

JaronK

If you add Spellstitched (Complete Arcane) to a high wisdom Necropolitan, such as a cleric, they can get some SLA's including potentially 1/day animate dead. Plus, since someone had to spellstitch him it offers to the segue to another bad guy.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Why is the cemetery teeming with undead? How did it get to be this way? The ideal specific boss monster should be more obvious with these questions answered.

However the original post did say miniboss, so it might make just as much sense to use a bigger undead that isn't the source. If it's the boss, it should definitely be a source. If it's just a miniboss, it can just as easily say 'there will be more of these to deal with if you don't find the real boss.'

[sonofzeal]

I disagree with SoZ: the ghast is vastly different from the skeletons and zombies, thus provide a completely different threat. The band is only level 2, so a TPK won't hurt too much. Also, being a single boss, it is most likely at least one or two of the players can escape should things go really bad, get help, and save their mates. All in all, a much more memorable experience than going up against yet a skeleton, even if it is a large flaming one.
Counterpoint - his previous plan called for Ghouls and then a Ghast. Ghasts are practically identical to Ghouls except for higher stats and greater abilities. A Ghast following Ghouls suffers exactly the same problem you state, but even worse because there's no way I know of to accurately recognize them apart at a distance short of DM fiat. Even if they're aware how difficult a Ghast can be, it's more of an informed ability than anything else, and unlikely to inspire any actual emotional reaction. A seven foot tall flaming skeleton though? That'll draw attention. You don't NEED to tell them it's dangerous, they'll be able to put those pieces together themselves.

[tiercel]

I don't see what the problem is with having them encounter a shadow, especially if you are kind and have them encounter something with DR/magic first as a wakeup call (or if they already have one or more +1 weapons).

Even without a wizard, the druid alone has access to produce flame, shillelagh, magic fang, magic stone and cure light wounds (cast offensively -- yes, you can actually do that). That's not counting whatever the bard has (even just a wand of cure light wounds), or the factotum pulling some nonsense like "Emulate Pun-Pun as an SLA with my Cunning Cheese ability" or how short a time the shadow has for this world if Mr. Barbarian has even a bog-standard +1 weapon or even oil of magic weapon for his normal, boring, unenchanted weapon -- yeah, that 50% whiff chance is annoying, but it only takes one or two good hits.

Keep in mind even if the party had a wizard, magic missile would be creating a grand total of one measly missile, and a 2nd level cleric who wasn't specifically optimizing Turn Undead would have a bit of a problem getting a Turn to nail an effectively 5HD creature (turn resistance).

Holy water works too. If your no-cleric, no-wizard party can't get either skillmonkey to realize that waltzing into a Graveyard of Undead without any holy water or any kind of magical weaponry (even temporary) might not be a good idea, then maybe your PCs deserve to learn a lesson about "sometimes it's good to run away." (This works particularly well if the PCs are doing their thing during daylight hours, and you have the Shadow be unwilling to chase them out into full daylight.)

[MukkTB]

However the original post did say miniboss, so it might make just as much sense to use a bigger undead that isn't the source. If it's the boss, it should definitely be a source. If it's just a miniboss, it can just as easily say 'there will be more of these to deal with if you don't find the real boss.'

I'd agree it isn't the source. However if the source is a mummy lich thing it isn't going to go around making flaming minions. If the source is an evil necromancer hes going to be looking for utility. If the source is just random magic it might produce some pretty silly monsters. The story of the place has an important role in designing the adventure.

[MukkTB]

Double Post Fail

[Gandariel]

Wow, so many answers. Sorry i can only answer you now.
Some of the ideas proposed are really awesome, and i would have probably changed my choice if i had read them. Sadly i was playing yesterday afternoon and i didn't get to read the thread, so i went with the ghast thing.

Well, i suppose i owe you a summary of what happened :P

The encounters were:
a group of 2 2-HD skeletons (wolf and half-orc), which were beaten easily.
a group of 2 4-HD zombies, which also were beaten easily.
two ghouls, one from the left and one from the right of the party. They were killed miserably.

AND, in the final chamber, i had my Ghast waiting. Since apparently my players were defeating enemies too easily, i gave it a support Ghoul too.
...
Everyone saved against the Stench, the ghast barely managed to paralyze the Druid's animal companion, and then both the ghast and the ghoul went into flurry-of-misses Mode, while the PCs were scoring good rolls after good rolls.
The PCs killed them almost without getting hit.
GAH!
Well, better than a TPK i guess.

They leveled up, by the way.
For next session they'll have a sorta-diplomatic mission in a city quite far away, and they'll have to go through a forest, and i'll have them do a couple encounters in the travels, since the mission inself in the city will have no fights at all. (unless they screw up their Diplomacy :P )

The two ideas i got are
1) a bunch of low level bandits attack! i was thinking 10 or so people, of which a commander of level 2-3.
I don't think it will be too much, the Druid will just Entangle half of them and they'll fight only half of them at a time.

2) They see the forest BUUURN!
The druid will hopefully drag the party to save the forest, and they'll meet who burned the forest: a Blighter!
i was thinking druid 6/ blighter 2 or 3
it will be technically high level, and so with a buncha hit points, but she will be still weakish, and not that difficult for the party.

Both ideas need work, but i think it's not bad..

AND, THANKS for all the replies :)

[Cwymbran-San]

As for the bandits idea: have them led by a lv4-6 Swordsage, armed with Desert Wind maneuvers. I tried this once with my group and they were quite surprised to find not another scimitar-wielding weakling (after slaying half of the bandits) but a fiery whirlwind of destruction.
Tought them not to underestimate their enemies, just because they all wear the same ragged clothing :smallbiggrin:

Edit says: where the hell do i get such an amazing custom avatar? My own skills at painting are...well...lacking...kind of...

[Gandariel]

nah, even a lvl 4 swordsage, backed up by other bandits, will crush my party... that's a bit too much.

And, my avatar is of gentle courtesy of Emperor ing, you can try asking :P
my graphic skills suck too :P

[Cwymbran-San]

So just use the appearance trick with some other class/monster combo. A pack of orcs with Greataxes...led by an orc with a Greataxe...who happens to be a lv3 barbarian :smallamused: just keep them guessing about their enemies, troubles most players more then just piling up special abilities in single opponents.

[Pilo]

For your bandits:

Two 2nd level adepts who cast sleep on your pcs while the surprise round.
2 to 4 2nd level warriors who attack them in melee.
2 2nd level warrior who use short bows from a 60 feet away position.
And the last but not the least, a level 3 rogue, who stand as their chief, that flank them after the melee warriors start.

No big monsters, no high level foes, just a good strategy.

[JadePhoenix]

They just leveled up. They deserve to feel how much more powerful they are and stuff.

Throw them against a bunch of 1st level warriors. Play them intelligently - have them hide, use cover, ranged weapons. Have some of them ready a spear to counter a charge, stuff like that. Give them different feats - archers could have Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, pikers could have Combat Reflexes and Weapon Focus (spear), frontliners could have Improved Toughness and Dodge. Something like 6 or 8 first level warriors. They should be able to deal with it quite easily - and then you can use it as lead-in for an encounter with the bandit leaders.

[00dlez]

You could also incorporate battlefield hazards into the mix also. Have a standard encounter with orcs or goblins or bandits etc, but have it in an open field that's on fire or atop a bridge ready to collapse over a raging river.

Little things can turn Goblin Squad #120945 into a memorable encounter.

[Gwendol]

Thanks for sharing! Well, the CR3 encounter shouldn't be too hard on them, and they do seem more competent than you had us believe. I think a shadow would pehaps have put up more a fight?

For this encounter I'd say go with the earlier suggestions about good tactics and some class levels. Have them use stuff like tanglefoot bags, alchemist fire, and similar tricks.
That should keep the team on its toes for a while!

[Gandariel]

Thanks for sharing! Well, the CR3 encounter shouldn't be too hard on them, and they do seem more competent than you had us believe. I think a shadow would pehaps have put up more a fight?

That's the point.. they're not so competent, most of them are playing their first game ever!
to put it simple:
the bard did nothing but sing and give a +1 to everyone in all encounters (yes, he has Extra music)
The druid whacked a few times with his quarterstaff, and summoned a wolf behind the ghast to flank it (has Augment summoning)
Also the druid's animal companion did quite some damage to several enemies (though was palalyzed by the ghast)
The factotum had a pile of bonuses (+1 for the song, +1 Str, +2 knowledge devotion, +3 Inspiration point, +1 mwk weapon)
and.. the barbarian.. well, he was a barbarian. (he isn't even that optimized, no whirling frenzy and no pounce, but he did good damage as it was)

So.. yeah, they killed my poor ghast.
Yes, in next session they'll have to go in a far city and then get back, so there's time for two encounters at least.
One will be with low level bandits, i like your ideas.
but...



Two 2nd level adepts who cast sleep on your pcs while the surprise round.
2 to 4 2nd level warriors who attack them in melee.
2 2nd level warrior who use short bows from a 60 feet away position.
And the last but not the least, a level 3 rogue, who stand as their chief, that flank them after the melee warriors start.

isn't that too much?

And the other encounter, i'm positive on the Blighter. i could make it a
Druid 3/ranger2/Blighter x
(using one of the various early entry ideas, OR just making it so.)
(it's fun to be the DM)
Anyway, how many Blighter levels should i give her? 2 or 3?

[Pilo]

If you think that it is too much, remove the bowmen and lower the level of the rogue to 2.

[Kol Korran]

i don't have the time to view the entire thread, so someone might have beat me to it:
if i may suggest a different approach: if you have the MM3 there is back at the end the Vasuthant: a small ball of darkness who sucks lights (shadowy illumination here we come! dim the lights) and alters reality a little. ("i rolled a crit!". "actually, roll again...") also, it flies so it can confuse normal tactics by the party, and his flyby attack means they'll have to change tactics a bit.

if any of your characters (or the animal companion) are small, it might draw them inside and start crushing them (most chances it will die before the PC dies). it will add a bit of horror to the undead theme, and a an unexpected bend.

i suggest either give him an extra HD or two (he is only CR2) or put it in a room with a minor recharging trap. (where he can use his alter reality ability to make them fail their saves). that way it it will be CR 3? 4? tough but winnable.

but maybe if they are already facing some before him- then just it alone. perhaps just add about 5 hp.

[Gandariel]

Thanks, Kor, but i had actually already gone with the Ghast idea..
i threw at them a Ghast and a Ghoul, and the party squashed them easily. Next time, better monsters :P
In the next session there will be exactly two encounters (During a long trip: one in the travel from home to that place, and one when they come back)
My ideas were:
1) a group of low level bandits
2) a Blighter who has just burned down a forest. (nice, because i've always wanted to create a Blighter and the team has a Druid)

About the bandits, i'll have them be mainly rogues and fighters/warriors, with bows, strategy, and such.

About the blighter, i was thinking Druid3(early entry)/Ranger1 / Blighter 3.
I think 3 is a good level because it gets the cool Undead wildshape.
(for those of you who don't know, Blighter is a class that "cancels" all your previous druid abilities and gives fast casting progression, and evil stuff)
I know technically it's a CR 7 enemy, but it shouldn't be that strong..right?
maybe i should stop at Blighter 2?

[00dlez]

Thanks, Kor, but i had actually already gone with the Ghast idea..
i threw at them a Ghast and a Ghoul, and the party squashed them easily. Next time, better monsters :P
In the next session there will be exactly two encounters (During a long trip: one in the travel from home to that place, and one when they come back)
My ideas were:
1) a group of low level bandits
2) a Blighter who has just burned down a forest. (nice, because i've always wanted to create a Blighter and the team has a Druid)

About the bandits, i'll have them be mainly rogues and fighters/warriors, with bows, strategy, and such.

About the blighter, i was thinking Druid3(early entry)/Ranger1 / Blighter 3.
I think 3 is a good level because it gets the cool Undead wildshape.
(for those of you who don't know, Blighter is a class that "cancels" all your previous druid abilities and gives fast casting progression, and evil stuff)
I know technically it's a CR 7 enemy, but it shouldn't be that strong..right?
maybe i should stop at Blighter 2?

It won't be a an easy fight but I think you can leave the blighter as is in good conscience. I've always found that a CR based almost entirely off of character classes can be misleading, especially if it is a BBEG vs. the party, the BBEG gets 1 action to the party's 4 or more actions. Depending on how much damage the party can dish out each round, try to make it survivable for 4 rounds or so, that gives it a chance to use some of its nastier abilities and not go down immediately after.

[Gandariel]

Okay, thanks, so that's settled =)
Any ideas for bandit tactics? and numbers? group is level three now

[Kol Korran]

In the next session there will be exactly two encounters (During a long trip: one in the travel from home to that place, and one when they come back)
instead of two seemingly random encounters, why don't you tell us a bit about the location or a bit about the group and adventures, and maybe we can suggest or help design encounters with more connection. these seem to be more memorable, and add to the overall feeling of the campaign.
but i'll regard your requests:


About the bandits, i'll have them be mainly rogues and fighters/warriors, with bows, strategy, and such.

hmmm, i'm thinking of the following composition:
Leader- Rog1/ fighter2 (either human or half orc. basic "big thug" mentality. i suggest either battle control with improved trip, or go for improved feint to try and insure the SA)

the "gang"- 4 rog 1

the "ace in the hole"- gnome illusionist (or beguiler) 3 main spells: lvl2- invisibility (perhaps even a severely depleted wand), level 1- ventriquilism, disguise self, silent image, perhaps sleep or grease. level 0- ghost sound.

the main tactics: at first everyone tries to remain hidden at the sides of the road. as the party comes near the gnome uses his/ her ventriqulism, silent image and ghost sounds to fake some sort of "magical effect" on the road (the rogues might have prepped the area accordingly): a fey guarding the road, an ancient spirit demanding tribute for passage and so on...

assuming the party refuses (and that they didn't spot the hiding rogues) the leader and two rogues come up in front and demand tribute, or they will be hurt (and all that jazz)

combat: the 2 remaining hidden rogues have readied an action to shoot any caster (or chanter in the case of the bard). first time will be a sneak attack probably, further attacks not, but the rogues will have the cover of tree stumps/ bushes at least...

the leader and two melee rogues (which should sneak to the middle of the party, thanks to invisibility from the mage)should close into battle with the leader, trying to flank as much as possible.

the illusionist may cast a battle spell and other than that try and avoid the battle. if things go down (as well they should) he'll whip up some ropes and maybe slightly bruise himself and posed as a coerced prisoner. later to betray the party of course.

Note: the battle can be easy or very difficult, depending on whetherh they notice the hidden opponents (especially the invisible ones). it's about CR 6 i think, so it might be fairly tough... be warned.

but then there is the bandits loot! :smallbiggrin:


About the blighter, i was thinking Druid3(early entry)/Ranger1 / Blighter 3.
I think 3 is a good level because it gets the cool Undead wildshape.
(for those of you who don't know, Blighter is a class that "cancels" all your previous druid abilities and gives fast casting progression, and evil stuff)
I know technically it's a CR 7 enemy, but it shouldn't be that strong..right?
maybe i should stop at Blighter 2?

i don't know the blighter class so i can't help there, sorry. but druids are notroiously powerful generally, and 7 levels above? i don't know. seems risky to me. i'd suggest to leave this guy to a more fitting, more appropriate opportunity than just a random encounter, but you know your party best.

in doubt, conduct a mock battle between the party and this guy before hand, and see how close it comes. :smallconfused:

hope it goes well,
Kol. :smallsmile:

[Gwendol]

For the bandits; have the rogues toss tanglefoot bags to immobilize the heroes (at least attempt to), especially against the ones in armor.

[Gandariel]

i don't know the blighter class so i can't help there, sorry. but druids are notroiously powerful generally, and 7 levels above? i don't know. seems risky to me. i'd suggest to leave this guy to a more fitting, more appropriate opportunity than just a random encounter, but you know your party best.

in doubt, conduct a mock battle between the party and this guy before hand, and see how close it comes. :smallconfused:

hope it goes well,
Kol. :smallsmile:

Thank you very much.
FWI, Blighter is an usually regarded as ugly class.
Basically, when you enter the class you lose ALL previous druid features.
Then, you begin getting new ones, with fast casting progression (level three spells at level three.. but their spell list is very bad) and undead wild shape.

I'll think about the bandits, i was thinking more 1 level three leader guy(rogue probably) with 8 or so level 1 mooks (some ranged, some melee, some rogues)
and maybe a level 1 wizard too..

I can't give more information about the campaign right now, because, simply, this is the first game for most of the players (and also my first time DMing)
The first story arc (the one they're currently in) is just introductory.
There is no big plot (Actually there is, but they don't know yet)
They're just being sent for some missions right now, to gather a few objects. After a couple more missions i'll introduce the true plot (and also the reason they've been collecting said items).

So for now i prefer sticking with bandits and semi-random encounters.
But really, thanks :smallsmile:

[Kol Korran]

the bandit makeup you suggested sounds quite good. if you see they are too strong, you can have some of the bandits retreat due to too many casualties or the like.

the Blighter sounds... quite bad. maybe it would fit at CR7. it can ran away as well perhaps.

and i understand about sticking with your instincts. that is usually good measure.
glad to hear about more people in the game, and one more DMing. and mostly that all of you are having fun. :smallwink:
if you need further help in the future, let us know. the forum is a great source, i've used it myself a few times.

[00dlez]

Bandits are bandits. Depending on how many encounters you want to have before the blighter, you might try doing some live party testing.

First you might send 6 mixed bandits, they deal some damage, but you might think an extra melee/flanking pair would work better, so the next fight you toss them in as well and change up the tactics a little bit.

See how the party will react to the bandits and have the bandits adapt to the party's strategy, keep them on their toes.