Orc Fix [3.5]

[NineThePuma]

• +4 Strength, -2 Int, -2 Charisma.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Orc base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision: Orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
• Endurance: Orcs receive the Endurance feat as a bonus feat.
• Weapon Proficiency: Orcs receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the Falchion, Battle Axe, and Glaive as bonus feats.
• Weapon Familiarity: Orcs may treat Orc Double Axesas martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.
• +4 racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
• Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Orc.
• Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.

Just a basic orc fix; They're naturally tough, in the sense that they can put up with conditions that most races would find... uncomfortable, but dislike the sun. They're used to their place at the bottom of the social ladder, but are intimidating in the same way that Bears are.

Half-orcs would drop the light sensitivity, lower the intimidate bonus, and get +2str, -2 Int. Other than that, they'd be identical to the usual.

[NeoSeraphi]

You should drop the "half-" part from that last sentence on darkvision, since this is about the orc race, not the half-orc race.

Also, for readability's sake, please make the Bonus Languages its own bullet.

Since orcs now have four bonus feats, they are just as Chaos-Shuffle abusable as elves now! Hooray! No, but seriously, this looks good. Endurance is a nice feat, as long as you don't have to spend a slot on it.

I really like the lack of divine hate now. Personally, I don't think any race should have a Wisdom penalty, just because of how many core classes need Wisdom. (Clerics, paladins, monks, rangers, and druids, that's 5 out of 11!)

[NineThePuma]

Yeah, that was a copy pasta error.

Normal d20 races don't do it, but whatever.

Yeah, I noticed that when I was looking at elves. So abusable <3

I thought that a wisdom penalty was stupid, as it affects your ability to hunt/gather, farm, herd animals, etc.

If I were to keep the Wis penalty, I'd off set it by throwing Orcs a con boost and the Run feat.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

My Pathfinder version of the Orc is +2 Str/Cha, -2 Int.

[Seerow]

My Pathfinder version of the Orc is +2 Str/Cha, -2 Int.

+cha on an orc? any particular reason why?




Anyway, I like the Orc. The only real change I'd make is change it from martial proficiency feats to just giving proficiency with those weapons, to avoid chaos shuffle shenanigans (you get endurance for those shenanigans that should be enough you cheesy bastard!). I might also consider dropping +4 str down to +2, and giving +2 con instead, but that could be just because I don't like +4 to attributes, so is more of a personal issue. (Alternatively just dropping the Cha penalty and dropping the str bonus to +2 would work)

[Viktyr Gehrig]

+cha on an orc? any particular reason why?

Because Orcs are supposed to be terrible and intimidating. Also to make them better Sorcerers and Oracles.

[firemagehao]

To my knowledge, the DM's book says something along the lines of a -4 penalty to mental stats for a +2 bonus to strength, as a guideline.
I would consider simply giving it the feat, or a similar ability, which allows it to use its strength bonus in place of charisma on intimidate checks.

[Seerow]

To my knowledge, the DM's book says something along the lines of a -4 penalty to mental stats for a +2 bonus to strength, as a guideline.


Just going to point out in this regard the authors were retarded, and vastly overvalued the benefit of melee bonuses vs casting stats.

[Deepbluediver]

Because Orcs are supposed to be terrible and intimidating. Also to make them better Sorcerers and Oracles.

I just give orcs a racial bonus to bluff checks to make up for it.

It does suck that orc sorcerers get a penalty, but it doesn't make them that much different from races with strength or constitution penalties with regards to Melee. It's just something that you have to deal with if you value role-play over min-maxing.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Yeah, that's fair. But I also allow Barbarians to add their Charisma modifier to melee damage rolls-- so the Charisma bonus helps cement Orcs further into type.

[Deepbluediver]

If that's the way you want to work it, then maybe give orcs a racial PENALTY to Diplomacy checks? They do seem like the kind of race who would shoot first and only think about questions once everyone is already dead.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

How often do Orcs take classes that grant Diplomacy as a class skill?

[NeoSeraphi]

How often do Orcs take classes that grant Diplomacy as a class skill?

Doesn't matter. You can (and will) make Diplomacy checks untrained, if you have to. Diplomacy is a skill that is vital to interacting with NPCs. And interaction is what the Charisma score is all about. Orcs are supposed to be (and are, if you are referring to Tolkien for inspiration) the absolute least charismatic creatures in existence.

Charisma is force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. In all of these, the orc is awful, save force of personality (arguably). That is why Uruk-hai were created, to lead the orc war-front.

[Andion Isurand]

I would avoid giving them an actual bonus feat, and just give them the benefit or bonus itself instead.

[Yitzi]

Just going to point out in this regard the authors were retarded, and vastly overvalued the benefit of melee bonuses vs casting stats.

I think the idea was more that physical ability scores cannot easily be made into dump stats (arcane casters with STR are really the only exception), whereas mental ability scores generally can (you just can't play a caster with that particular ability as his key ability.)

It does underestimate the value of mental ability bonuses, though, although even there the ability score is less important for anyone but a save-or-die or batman caster than it is for a physical class.

[FatJose]

I think the idea was more that physical ability scores cannot easily be made into dump stats (arcane casters with STR are really the only exception), whereas mental ability scores generally can (you just can't play a caster with that particular ability as his key ability.)

It does underestimate the value of mental ability bonuses, though, although even there the ability score is less important for anyone but a save-or-die or batman caster than it is for a physical class.

The difference in what classes get for skill points makes Int pretty important for just about everyone and it factors into a good number of skills. I think the main reason rangers and rogues get so many points is because the archetypes are multifaceted but not that bright. A wizard gets the bare minimum but they are expected to have high Int to make up for that. Same goes for the Fighter in comparison to the Barbarian. It's like they gave the points as a buffer expecting people to go lower Int on the less sophisticated classes.

Either with point buy or rolling you win with a Fighter who's race gets an Int bonus because you spend less points or can use a dump stat to qualify for all those Int 13+ feats. Depending how you build that works even with a Physical penalty. Dex penalty just means you build a tactical full armored knight. Str, cunning sniper or finese swordsman. Con? Who cares. I've seen plenty of Elf warrior types. If you take a hit to any other mental stat you only really have to fear saves, being slightly less perceptive and social awkwardness. The last two can be remedied partially with more skill points, by the way.

[NineThePuma]

I would avoid giving them an actual bonus feat, and just give them the benefit or bonus itself instead.

Why? *curious look*

[Smokin Red]

Just wanted to say thank you.

I'm actually using your fix and it made it possible for me to create a build (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=351833) I had in my mind for a long time.

[Frog Dragon]

I think I shall be nabbing these for any Eberron games I run. Now gatekeepers make sense from a mechanical standpoint. Thank you! :smallbiggrin: