[PF] Gestalt game character advice/suggestions?

[Blyte]

Well it's 8th level, Evil, and Eastern.

It's a pathfinder game, and only paizo (no 3rd party) products, AND no prestige classes.

That's about all I know right now... I was considering a ninja/monk, fighter/barb, and druid/barb.

ninja monk master of many styles, crane+snake+panther with sneak attacks+weapon finesse(unarmed)+bonus style feat+bonus combat feat from ninja.

fighter barb, greater overrun+cleave chain. invulnerable rager+twohanded fighter

druid barb, greater overrun+ability to shape shift into a friggin dinosaur.

I am a little fuzzy on what exactly you get from shifting into a "huge animal", do I get to use the attacks and abilities of triceratops, or what? does my gear integrate into the form? does my gear cease to function? etc.. etc..

also just wonderin if anyone else has a non-cliche suggestion for me? or a way to do what I am trying to build better?

Thanks in advance!

[Aegis013]

Might we ask what books are available?

Swordsage 8//Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 5
Might be a good build. The warblade is tagged on the end there because I wasn't sure what would be better.

Swordsage (especially those Shadow Hand maneuvers) can really feel ninja-esque. While the other side can bolster your BAB and provide you with Pounce, rage, and bonus feats.

Edit: Druid/Barb is the only one of those you mentioned that will provide real power. Monk/Ninja is a sure way to feel pretty weak, and Fighter/barb... well you gain the least out of gestalting those two.

[hex0]

Swordsage (especially those Shadow Hand maneuvers) can really feel ninja-esque. While the other side can bolster your BAB and provide you with Pounce, rage, and bonus feats.

If you can use Rokugan Ninja (it is free online, OGL), it is full BAB, full sneak attack. I'd reccomend that. Pretty simple...

For a Monk/Ninja I would go for Tash build instead, using Psychic Rogue for your sneaky time. Get Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius for INT synergy.

Monk 2/Fighter 2
Warblade 3/Psychic Rogue 3
Warmind 3/Psychic Rogue 3

To start would be decent. Pick up Psionic Lion's Charge so you can full attack charge with your flurry. And full BAB flurry is great.

[hushblade]

three rules for gestalt I've noticed are:
1. Get classes that do different kinds of things. This gives you more options
2. Get one class which has features you actively use, and one which passively helps you(Factotum goes well with everything INT based)
3. Get classes with ability synergy when you can

[Half-orc Bard]

I like totemist//Barbarian you do great damage and totomist gives you tons of options in combat so it's not boring, but wizard//factotem is fun too

[Snowbluff]

Might we ask what books are available?

Swordsage 8//Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 5
Might be a good build. The warblade is tagged on the end there because I wasn't sure what would be better.

Swordsage (especially those Shadow Hand maneuvers) can really feel ninja-esque. While the other side can bolster your BAB and provide you with Pounce, rage, and bonus feats.

Edit: Druid/Barb is the only one of those you mentioned that will provide real power. Monk/Ninja is a sure way to feel pretty weak, and Fighter/barb... well you gain the least out of gestalting those two.

This. The fact that ToB wasn't considered is disappointing.

[Blyte]

Sorry I forgot to put the [PF] in front of the post..

It's a pathfinder game, and only paizo products, AND no prestige classes.

[Andreaz]

Magus//Wizard is a powerhouse, as well as Cleric//Inquisitor.

My favorite within your limits is Paladin//Oracle.

You sure third party won't be allowed? Psionics Unleashed ported over 3.5 psionics and added a couple pints of Awesome, and playing an Aegis//Magus has been amazing.

[grarrrg]

ninja monk master of many styles, crane+snake+panther with sneak attacks+weapon finesse(unarmed)+bonus style feat+bonus combat feat from ninja.

Here's a build I've been kicking around awhile, and it would work SOOOO much better as a Gestalt. And it's quite similar to your suggestion as well.

I need to find a Punny name for it, but for now it is the:

Flurry of Sneaks!

Side A is all Monk.
Take the Flowing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/f) archetype,

At 2nd level, a flowing monk’s attacks of opportunity render a struck creature flat-footed until the end of the flowing monk’s next turn (Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + Wisdom modifier negates).

You'll want to get a weapon that you can Flurry with, AND that can 'trip'. There are a few choices:
Kama, Trip
Kama, Double-Chained, Double/Trip/Reach
Kusarigama, Double/Trip/Grapple/Reach
Monks start with Kama Proficiency, but Reach is probably worth blowing a Feat on.

Side B Ninja is more flavorful, but Rogue is fine too.
Basically, we want Sneak Attack, and lots of it, to take advantage of making opponents Flat-Footed.

Feel free to dip any other classes that have useful abilities, and/or ones that will help with your MAD problem (Str to-hit/damage, Dex #of AoO's, Con HP, Wis AC and flat-footing DC)

Combat Reflexes is a must-have.
Take the Feat Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat)
Whenever an opponent falls prone adjacent to you, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. This attack must be an unarmed strike.

See where this is going yet?


Trip your opponent (hereafter "mook").
Mook falls prone.
This provokes an AoO from you.
Kick Mook
Mook has to make a Ref Save or be Flat-Footed until the END of your NEXT turn.
On Mook's turn, they can either:
A, take the penalties for being prone (-4AC melee attacks), but otherwise act normally.
OR
B, attempt to stand up.... "Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity."
When it's your turn again, assuming Mook is within range, unleash Flurry of Sneaks
Repeat


MUHUHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Blyte]

Magus//Wizard is a powerhouse, as well as Cleric//Inquisitor.

My favorite within your limits is Paladin//Oracle.

You sure third party won't be allowed? Psionics Unleashed ported over 3.5 psionics and added a couple pints of Awesome, and playing an Aegis//Magus has been amazing.

I have always been psionic friendly, but unfortunately others in my group aren't and are particularly wary about 3rd party psionics. so unfortunately it's a no go for me... I was really looking forward to playing some form of vitalist too =[

[Blyte]

Here's a build I've been kicking around awhile, and it would work SOOOO much better as a Gestalt. And it's quite similar to your suggestion as well.

I need to find a Punny name for it, but for now it is the:

Flurry of Sneaks!

Side A is all Monk.
Take the Flowing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/f) archetype,


You'll want to get a weapon that you can Flurry with, AND that can 'trip'. There are a few choices:
Kama, Trip
Kama, Double-Chained, Double/Trip/Reach
Kusarigama, Double/Trip/Grapple/Reach
Monks start with Kama Proficiency, but Reach is probably worth blowing a Feat on.

Side B Ninja is more flavorful, but Rogue is fine too.
Basically, we want Sneak Attack, and lots of it, to take advantage of making opponents Flat-Footed.

Feel free to dip any other classes that have useful abilities, and/or ones that will help with your MAD problem (Str to-hit/damage, Dex #of AoO's, Con HP, Wis AC and flat-footing DC)

Combat Reflexes is a must-have.
Take the Feat Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat)

See where this is going yet?


Trip your opponent (hereafter "mook").
Mook falls prone.
This provokes an AoO from you.
Kick Mook
Mook has to make a Ref Save or be Flat-Footed until the END of your NEXT turn.
On Mook's turn, they can either:
A, take the penalties for being prone (-4AC melee attacks), but otherwise act normally.
OR
B, attempt to stand up.... "Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity."
When it's your turn again, assuming Mook is within range, unleash Flurry of Sneaks
Repeat


MUHUHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

ya buddy, I like that build!

I was thinking something along those same lines as well, I have a hard time deciding between flowing monk and MoMS. They are both so amazing.

perhaps I could go ninja + monk2[flowing+snake style]+fighter2(for more BAB+more feats)+alchemist4+[vivesectionist](double sneak dice gain from here out+mutagens)

now with ninja + snake style I can use my ki to generate mirror images with one of my ninja tricks and when they miss me I get up to 2 AoOs with snake style.

if I take my fighter levels for levels 7 and 8 I can grab trip feats (improved+greater) and perhaps fury's fall as well

edit-- darn, never mind.. snake style isn't so easy to qualify for without MoMS.. perhaps use panther or crane? well I could just build up to level 9 for snake fang and do without it for my initial build.

[Andreaz]

I have always been psionic friendly, but unfortunately others in my group aren't and are particularly wary about 3rd party psionics. so unfortunately it's a no go for me... I was really looking forward to playing some form of vitalist too =[

After that game, or whenever is more appropriate, do show them that "third party" does not equate "sucks horribly". Dreamscarred's one exception to that at least.

[Blyte]

absolutely and the GM is on board, but one player has two things he can't game with... warforged (eberron in general) and psionics.

and for that matter he is bitterly opposed to 4E..

anyhow, I don't really care for eastern games myself, I like high classical fantasy, but I am willing to bend. some folks just are not willing.

[grarrrg]

perhaps I could go ninja + monk2[flowing+snake style]+fighter2(for more BAB+more feats)+alchemist4+[vivesectionist](double sneak dice gain from here out+mutagens)

if I take my fighter levels for levels 7 and 8 I can grab trip feats (improved+greater) and perhaps fury's fall as well


2 things.

1. You NEED monk levels to boost the Save DC for AoO>Flatfoot (unless you are mainly fighting things with horrible Ref saves)

2. You do NOT need Fighter for Bab (feats maybe, Bab no).
Flurry uses your Monk level instead of your Monk Bab.
And at Monk level 3 you get Maneuver training which lets you use your Monk level instead of your Monk Bab when making Combat Maneuvers.


Also, keep in mind that
A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows.
So you can Flurry AND Trip in the same turn, but since the Flurry/Trip must be Unarmed, you cannot use Weapon Reach....

UNLESS you take the Lunge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lunge-combat---final) feat. Keep in mind that it ONLY works DURING your turn.

[Blyte]

Good points.

I thought about the monk more, but ultimately decided to go Druid8 + (Barb6+fighter2) combo.

Basically gonna be a huge sized ape (3x3) with a tree (improvised great club) that does 16d8 on a vital strike.

huge great club (3d8) with improvised weapon mastery feat (4d8) 19-20 x2 then with shillelagh (8d8) then with vital strike (16d8)... it's gonna be insane rolling that for damage.

Here's what I was thinking for feat/rage power selection.

-Feats-
1 Power Attack
1 Throw Anything
3 Point Blank Shot
5 Precise Shot
7 Wild Speech
7 Vital Strike
8 Improvised Weapon Mastery


-Rage Powers-
2 Superstition
4 Hurling, Lesser
6 Ground Breaker

for ranged attacks I use ground breaker, then use my lesser hurling+throw anything+improvised weapon mastery+vital strikes to throw 2x2 hunks of rubble at people for 12d6 damage.

at level 9 I plan to return to barbarian and either get improved critical improvised weapons (if that is a group) or extra rage power: hurling.

I have a concern though. Do all worn magic items cease to function when you wildshape?

[Ason]

Some of my favorite gestalt combos for Pathfinder are:

Inquisitor//Ranger. It makes a GREAT bounty hunter, has a ton of class features that complement each other (only one duplicate ability), and requires the same attributes for both halves. Combined with a divination-capable caster, your party will be able to hunt anything, and it's a fun build flavor-wise.

Sorcerer//Oracle. Ideally you make it Aberrant Sorc//Lore Oracle with the Deafness curse: that gives you 15ft reach on all touch spells (Sorc *and* Oracle), Silent Spell for free on all spells (Sorc *and* Oracle) and Charisma to AC and Reflex. You become the ultimate touch attack machine, and don't forget that Cure Wounds is a touch spell, meaning you can now heal across battlefields. Thematically, I would play it off as the priest of a Cthulhu-like entity: the PC's studies delved too deep into madness and changed her irrevocably.

Paladin//Lore Oracle. It can give you Charisma to ALL defenses, enough spellcasting to remain in the back lines if desired, and enough melee power to step up to the front if necessary.


Sadly, my group's gestalt Pathfinder games always fall apart at the last minute, so I've not actually play-tested those builds. Sadness... :smallsigh:


EDIT: I saw your proposed build after I posted- I must have glanced right over it before. Scratch what I wrote then, sorry.

[Blyte]

that sorc/oracle I like a lot... I was tryin to avoid obvious combos like those classes... but that is a unique little niche there you found for both that compliment each other nicely.

will that build ever be able to threaten with touch spells? that would be pretty neato if they could get AoOs with touch spells.

[Ason]

will that build ever be able to threaten with touch spells? that would be pretty neato if they could get AoOs with touch spells.

Hm... I've never thought about that question before. I got really excited about that idea until I re-read the class feature description. Sadly, the Long Limbs ability that extends your reach states: "This ability does not otherwise increase your threatened area." Thus, you could touch attack people right next you as an AoO but not someone at a distance.