Binder Tips (3.5)

[Kymme]

Hello Playgrounders!!
I have recently made a binder character for a new game my brother is running. The binder in question likes to bind to karsus, so he can use wands and scrolls and staves, ect. Now then, it would be great if anyone has any tips or knows of any versatile magic items that are 25k gp or less so he can be sort of the party's "factorum" in a sence, prepared for most situations.
Thanks in advance for any help!!::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Kymme123

[gorfnab]

I would suggest reading through the Binder's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235).

[Little Brother]

Improved Binding is your friend. I, personally, loved going Binder 10/KotSS 5 with Zceryll, 'cause I really like Zceryll. You should, too. Zceryll is your friend.

Also, you might want to abandon Binder for advancing binder PrCs as fast as possible, as Soul Binding is the only thing that matters, and it gets advanced(Including new perks) by the classes. In fact, if you're focusing on Zceryll, which is far from the only way to do it, you can ditch Binder after 10, as you can get the better summons by your level, not binder level.

I've haven't played many binders, but they really are incredibly fun, especially since they can do so much with each ability. Hope this helps.

[Psyren]

Also, you might want to abandon Binder for advancing binder PrCs as fast as possible, as Soul Binding is the only thing that matters, and it gets advanced(Including new perks) by the classes. In fact, if you're focusing on Zceryll, which is far from the only way to do it, you can ditch Binder after 10, as you can get the better summons by your level, not binder level.

Pure Binder isn't too bad though, if only for Soul Guardian. Supernatural Death Ward and Supernatural Mind Blank are extremely powerful defenses.

[Little Brother]

Pure Binder isn't too bad though, if only for Soul Guardian. Supernatural Death Ward and Supernatural Mind Blank are extremely powerful defenses.Agreed, but you must remember two things. One: You're already immune to a lot through Zceryll, and you can go something like Nar Demonbinder 1/Anima Mage, or something like that, or Ur-Priest. Admittedly, Binder 19, or Binder 10/KotSS 5/Binder +5 is much lower power level, suitable for weaker groups.

Still, anything you do with binder, so long as you follow the Golden Rule of CharOp, "Thou shall not lose caster levels," you should be fine with almost anything.

[Thurbane]

Unless you go Binder 20, or Binder X/full binding PrC X, you only need to nab 15 levels of Binding and the Improved Binding feat - that'll get you 3x 8th level Vestiges, the best you can do without 20 levels of Binding. That gives you 5 levels to play with in other areas.

[Kymme]

Thanks for the tips, guys:smallbiggrin:, but i really only need tips on possible magic items, preferably staves that are under 25k, to go with Karsus' abilities.

[sonofzeal]

Totally off topic... but while several other forumites and I have vicious public arguments about whether the plural is "factota" or "factotums", I think we can all agree that "factorum" is not the way you spell the singular.... unless you're reffering to something I don't know?

In any case, my vote's for a Handy Haversack (2000 gp), filled with two scrolls of every single 1st lvl spell in the game (2*465*25 = 23,500... so you'll have to knock 500 gp off that on some sort of bulk discount, which I'm pretty sure you qualify for at this point).

[Person_Man]

Unless you go Binder 20, or Binder X/full binding PrC X, you only need to nab 15 levels of Binding and the Improved Binding feat - that'll get you 3x 8th level Vestiges, the best you can do without 20 levels of Binding. That gives you 5 levels to play with in other areas.

True. But there is a minor caveat: The Improved Binder feat only effects what vestige you can bind, and not the effective level that you "cast" your vestiges at and their Save DC's. This is very important for Zceryll, whose effective Sorcerer level for Summon Alien is = Binder level (or Binder + Binder progressing PrC levels), as well as any other vestige which is tied to your Binder level.

I would also say that in addition to the very potent Soul Guardian abilities, one should never overlook the Binder's Pact Augmentation ability (floating bonus), which can give you up to a +10 Insight bonus to Initiative, which is a pretty big deal. And Binder's tend to be very Feat hungry, so I like to avoid spending them on Improved Binder or PrC pre-reqs if it can be reasonably avoided. So I'm generally a proponent of Binder 20 (though there are many exceptions).


For Karsus optimization, remember that your Greater Dispel Magic ability also works on your enemy's magic items. So even if you're not fighting a buffed caster, it's generally a good idea to cast Greater Dispel Magic on anyone who seems to be well equipped. I would also suggest that you find a weapon with a good Save or suck effect, such as the Life-Drinker (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Life-Drinker) (you'll be immune to it's negative effects at 13th level) or a Paralyzing weapon (+2 bonus, Book of Exalted Deeds).

[JadePhoenix]

Still, anything you do with binder, so long as you follow the Golden Rule of CharOp, "Thou shall not lose caster levels," you should be fine with almost anything.
Dulcinea disagrees :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

I really hate that "golden rule." There are plenty of reasons to lose caster levels, and it sure as heck doesn't cripple you for all time, reducing you to a broken shell of a caster that can barely light a candle. My golden rule is "don't lose 9ths," which gives more than enough play for a fun concept that only certain PrCs can pull off.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Don't forget that Karsus specifically only allows you to use spell-trigger magic items, not spell-completion items like scrolls.

[Chronos]

"Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels" is a rule of optimization, not a rule of fun. If you're aiming for maximum fun, sometimes it can make a lot of sense to lose caster levels. Say, for instance, if you're overshadowing other party members, and want to cut back on your power to get more in line with them. Or just if the character concept you want to play is a better match for the build with lost casting.

And even if I were going straight Binder, I think I'd probably still take Improved Binding. It'll become a dead feat eventually, but level 17 is a long way away. For comparison, suppose there were a feat for wizards that let you use your highest-level spell slots for spells one level higher: Wizards would be all over that. Well, that's basically what Improved Binding is.

Oh, and with Binder, even if you have a favorite vestige, remember that you can change every day. This can be very useful if you have advance warning of what you're going to face, or if you discover a gap in your party's composition. A binder is in some ways even more flexible than a wizard, for that.

[cagemarrow]

Don't discount Zceryll's usefulness compared to Karsus. With the right summons you can effectively cast any cleric or wizard spell at will up to 12th level caster. SM VI gives you an evil cleric CL 5, and SM IX gives you either a cleric or wizard 12.

I've got a couple of links on the last page of the binder handbook that can be very useful for keeping your binder more organized.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235.120

[Psyren]

"Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels" is a rule of optimization, not a rule of fun. If you're aiming for maximum fun, sometimes it can make a lot of sense to lose caster levels.

I get that, but you can optimize by losing caster levels too. Malconvoker and Constructor lose caster levels, and both are superior to straight Conjurer/Shaper. Sandshaper and EA do too, but they beat the heck out of straight Warmage/Beguiler. And so on.

[Little Brother]

True. But there is a minor caveat: The Improved Binder feat only effects what vestige you can bind, and not the effective level that you "cast" your vestiges at and their Save DC's. This is very important for Zceryll, whose effective Sorcerer level for Summon Alien is = Binder level (or Binder + Binder progressing PrC levels), as well as any other vestige which is tied to your Binder level. Actually, no. Zceryll says level, not Binder level, or EBL, or so on, on Summon Alien.

And the full thing is "Thou shall not lose caster levels without a damn good reason."

[Kymme]

Mmm Hmm.:smallconfused:
Does anyone know of any cheap, versetile staves or other magic items?
I will settle for a handy haversack full of wands, though, if no such item exists.

[Psyren]

Actually, no. Zceryll says level, not Binder level, or EBL, or so on, on Summon Alien.

It doesn't have to. ToM pg. 19:


If a supernatural ability granted by a vestige mimics the effect of a spell or shadow magic mystery, the caster level of that ability is always equal to a binder's effective binder level.

[Little Brother]

It doesn't have to. ToM pg. 19:Except for the fact that the specific trumps the general, and it says you cast it as a sorcerer of your level. Not your binder level, your level. So you have an SU ability with CL=your Binder level that lets you cast as a sorcerer of your level for those spells.

[Kymme]

Guys, please. :smallannoyed:
While i appreiciate your input, all i need is equipment. My binder is 10th level, and i have already chosen a lot of his gear. All i need is some sort of versatile magic item to spend the rest of my gold on.
So, does anyone have any equipment suggestions?

P.S. You know it's bad when the thri-kreen is the voice of reason :smallwink:

[DonutBoy12321]

Is LA buyoff allowed? Because there is actually an LA +2 race based on Karsus. They're called Karsites. Extremely fun, in my opinion.

[Kymme]

Yes, i know about karsites. I think their cool. BUT NOT THE POINT.
The point is that i need items, hopefully items more interesting than a haversack full of wands.

[Tvtyrant]

Decanter of endless water has almost as many options as it has drops of water. Space ship? Doable. Drowning a dungeon and then swimming to the treasure? Easy as pie. Watering an entire desert? Takes some pipes but hardly impossible.