VoP Build Advice (Yes, I know the risks)

[KingKamor]

Yeah, I've heard all of the stories about how Vow of Poverty is a huge trap and such, but I like the flavor so much and had a character I idea, so I just took it and ran with it. I'm not trying to fully optimize the build (if I did, I wouldn't be using the majority of the things here), I just want to make it usable as a combatant alongside a couple modest optimizers. Looks like this so far:

Sources Used:
Book of Exalted Deeds (BoED)
Complete Adventurer (CA)
D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook (PHB)
D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook II (PHBII)
Pathfinder Core Rulebook
Pathfinder Bestiary (PB)
Races of Faerun (RoF)
Tome of Magic (ToM)
Tome of Battle (ToB)

Race: Aasimar (PB) (LA +0)
Alignment: Neutral Good

1. Unarmed Swordsage 1: Quick to Act +1; Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)
--1st: Sacred Vow (BoED)
2. Unarmed Swordsage 2: AC Bonus
3. Fighter 1: Power Attack (PHB) (b)
--3rd: Vow of Poverty (BoED)
4. Fighter 2: Combat Expertise (b); Bravery +1
5. Fighter 3: Armor Training 1
6. Fighter 4: Leap Attack (CA) (b)
--6th: Celestial Bloodline (RoF)
7. Shadowsmith 1: Touch of shadow
8. Shadowsmith 2: Shroud of shadow
9. Shadowsmith 3: Shadow craft (basic)
--9th: Celestial Wings (RoF)
10. Shadowsmith 4: Armor of Shadow +2
11. Shadowsmith 5: Widen shroud
12. Shadowsmith 6: Shadow Craft (enchanted)
--12th: Leap of the Heavens (PHBII)
13. Shadowsmith 7: Armor of Shadow +4
14. Shadowsmith 8: Shadow Craft (armor)
15. Shadowsmith 9: Shadow Craft (quickened)
--15th: ????
16. Shadowsmith 10: Shadow Craft (shadow striking); Armor of Shadow (quickened)
17-20. ????

He can fly (slowly), has decent AC and resistances, can Power Attack with Leap Attack, and can perform some Martial Maneuvers, which I think covers most bases for the big stupid fighter in the group. By 16th level he can make +5 weapons of Shadow Striking (+3) for free, which overcome any alignment or material DR and last for 10 hours per use (5/day at Shadowsmith 10). I was thinking of going Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) to pump up my AC a bit more and make up for the overlapping deflection bonuses, but I'm still unsure.

I talked with my DM and he said that VoP would be able to work with the temporary weapons created through Shadowsmith, which is my main reason for using the PrC, the other reason being that I want this character to use swords. I have not decided on what bonus exalted feats I should get, but since most of them suck, I can pretty much narrow them down to Nymph's Kiss and Touch of Golden Ice for starters. Might be a possible utility guy thanks to a good number of skill points from Shadowsmith (6 + Int).

Some advice on how to improve/complete this build would be greatly appreciated.

[Heliomance]

Where's Shadowsmith from? Not familiar with it.

[Cwymbran-San]

Where's Shadowsmith from? Not familiar with it.

Prestige Class from Tome of Magic (Shadow part to be precise)

[hushblade]

ToB dips work much better late in a build as opposed to early.

[Metahuman1]

A dip into Cleric would be good. I'd get Travel and Animal devotion for the extra tricks.

A dip of Barbarian might not be a bad idea either. 1 level get's you pounce and your choice of Rage or Whirling Frenzy. A second level get's you improved trip which with either combat expertise or Knock Down, or both, can come in handy.

And depending on what you want to do, may want to look at Dungeon Crasher as opposed to some of those fighter feats. Just a though.

[Psyren]

See if you can get your DM to use the Shadowsmith adaptation (ToM pg. 135) that lets you form your gear out of force instead of shadow. Not only will this let you wreck incorporeal enemies, but you should be able to auto-bypass DR as well.

You may want to protect your head from a flying DMG first though.

[silver spectre]

See if you can get your DM to use the Shadowsmith adaptation (ToM pg. 135) that lets you form your gear out of force instead of shadow. Not only will this let you wreck incorporeal enemies, but you should be able to auto-bypass DR as well.

As long as I've had that book, I completely missed that blurb:smallannoyed:....

Have to wonder how that would affect his mysteries if his powers wern't shadow based?

[Psyren]

As long as I've had that book, I completely missed that blurb:smallannoyed:....

Have to wonder how that would affect his mysteries if his powers wern't shadow based?

It doesn't; the adaptation only affects your tools, not your mysteries. (The mysteries are the weakest part of the class anyway.)

[Tenebris]

I'm afraid that Shadowsmith doesn't work well with VoP. You cannot stack your "shadowcrafted" armor with the exalted bonus, as well as weapon enhancements, Armor of Shadow doesn't work at all, since deflection bonuses doesn't stack.

Meldshaper would be way better, and so do Druid (regular or shapeshift). Even spellcasters, since very few of them give up the goodness of the polymorph.

[KingKamor]

A dip into Cleric would be good. I'd get Travel and Animal devotion for the extra tricks.

A dip of Barbarian might not be a bad idea either. 1 level get's you pounce and your choice of Rage or Whirling Frenzy. A second level get's you improved trip which with either combat expertise or Knock Down, or both, can come in handy.

And depending on what you want to do, may want to look at Dungeon Crasher as opposed to some of those fighter feats. Just a though.I've considered going Spiritual Totem Barbarian for the Pounce ability, I've just always seen it as cheesy to use. What book is Dungeon Crasher from?


See if you can get your DM to use the Shadowsmith adaptation (ToM pg. 135) that lets you form your gear out of force instead of shadow. Not only will this let you wreck incorporeal enemies, but you should be able to auto-bypass DR as well.He may not allow that, given that he's already stretching it for me, and I like the flavor of shadow more than force for this character.


I'm afraid that Shadowsmith doesn't work well with VoP. You cannot stack your "shadowcrafted" armor with the exalted bonus, as well as weapon enhancements, Armor of Shadow doesn't work at all, since deflection bonuses doesn't stack.

Meldshaper would be way better, and so do Druid (regular or shapeshift). Even spellcasters, since very few of them give up the goodness of the polymorph.I wasn't planning on using the AC-boosting Mystery, nor the deflection one given by Shadowsmith, since I would have constantly-active versions anyway. The Shadowsmith still nets me some hiding abilities, full BAB, a ton of skill points (for a martial class), and the capstone is pretty damn good to me. As for the spellcasting classes, I want this guy to be almost entirely melee without any (normal) spellcasting. Sorry, should have made that clear. As for Meldshapers, I find them to be pretty underwhelming outside of Totemist, whose flavor I rather dislike in regards to using it for this character.

[Metahuman1]

I've considered going Spiritual Totem Barbarian for the Pounce ability, I've just always seen it as cheesy to use. What book is Dungeon Crasher from?

He may not allow that, given that he's already stretching it for me, and I like the flavor of shadow more than force for this character.

I wasn't planning on using the AC-boosting Mystery, nor the deflection one given by Shadowsmith, since I would have constantly-active versions anyway. The Shadowsmith still nets me some hiding abilities, full BAB, a ton of skill points (for a martial class), and the capstone is pretty damn good to me. As for the spellcasting classes, I want this guy to be almost entirely melee without any (normal) spellcasting. Sorry, should have made that clear. As for Meldshapers, I find them to be pretty underwhelming outside of Totemist, whose flavor I rather dislike in regards to using it for this character.
Dungeoncrasher is a AFC form Dungeonscape.

Oh, and as for Barbarian Spirit Lion Totem, it's the most studiedly necessary dip for Melee classes, especially one's who don't want to rely on martial Maneuvers. Because Melee is seriously hosed on there Mobility with out heavy use of Maneuvers/Pounce/Travel Devotion+turn uses.

It's not Cheesy, especially if you have a Tier one/two class in the party.

[Flickerdart]

Take Flicker. Your first two mysteries will be sacrificed to crummy ones, but Flicker more than makes up for it. Then take Favored Mystery twice (15th and 18th level feats) to get Flicker 3/day. Finish up your build with 4 levels of Teflammar Shadowlord. You'll need Assassin's Stance to get in, so plan accordingly, but once you do...
Imagine that you are facing two fools, Fool A and Fool B, along with your friendly party member, Fool C. You wait until Fool A and Fool C have exchanged blows, then jump out of the shadows at Fool B and proceed to blend his face into a fine paste using your shadow swords, applying Sneak Attack too. When his turn comes up, he takes a swing at you, but misses, because you've Flickered away, at which point Fool A also eats a full attack due to Shadowpounce, and since you're flanking with Fool C, you get to apply your Sneak Attack again. Ideally, Fool A is now dead, because he just took two full attacks to the knee. On your turn, you approach Fool B using Shadow Jump and stab him full of holes with Shadowpounce, then when he attacks you, teleport to the other side of him for another salvo. Now he finally gets to attack you - but he's taken three full attacks from you already, and has a 50% miss chance on the attacks he's making now.

So yeah, fun times.

[KingKamor]

It's not Cheesy, especially if you have a Tier one/two class in the party.I suppose you're right, but I don't think that we have any competent tier 1 or tier 2 class players in the party at the moment. As for the Dungeon Crasher, it's nice but not exactly what I'm looking for. Nonetheless, I'll take the Barb level first, then 4 Fighter levels up to 5th, then 10 Shadowsmith up to 15th, then I would have 5 levels to work with for Swordsage and/or others and would be able to have 4 attacks by 20th no matter what.


Take Flicker. Your first two mysteries will be sacrificed to crummy ones, but Flicker more than makes up for it. Then take Favored Mystery twice (15th and 18th level feats) to get Flicker 3/day. Finish up your build with 4 levels of Teflammar Shadowlord. You'll need Assassin's Stance to get in, so plan accordingly, but once you do...I would need to be nongood for Shadowlord, so I can't go VoP alongside this PrC without DM fiat. This might be something to look into for a different build, though, so thanks for mentioning it!

[Person_Man]

If homebrew is on the table, you may wish to look at the Forsaker Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172094). It's been play tested with good results.

[KingKamor]

If homebrew is on the table, you may wish to look at the Forsaker Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172094). It's been play tested with good results.No homebrew. Basically, if I can show my DM the source, then I can use it, so Dragon Magazines are allowed, but homebrew doesn't count for this purpose.